Most of Our Feelings Summed Up

[UCFan1513]

I agree with everything.

Realignment needs to be the motivating factor for everything the AD does going forward. Ollie is on the bit seat now and he knows it. No NCAA bid (and after today, it doesn't look great) this year will end his tenure at UConn. If that happens, AD cannot miss on new hire.

Do you think there’s a way we make the tournament and still fire him? Because honestly our win against Oregon looked like a win despite Ollie’s offensive “sets.” I feel like any run to the tournament at this point will be flukey given the ineptitude Ollie has instilled on offense, and last night on defense. Problems also exist in player’s perceptions of him and their trust in him. Even CV thought about leaving last year supposedly. I feel like a tournament appearance would just mask the problem at this point.

 

[SwingDog]

I guess the point i'm trying to make is: We're not running out of time. We're already out of time.

And we don't have 2-3 years to figure out the football program because expecting a program to figure itself out in 2-3 years is absurd.

Remember UCF was 0-12 two seasons ago and now they are 11-0 and ranked 15th in the nation. Why can't UConn turn its program around? UCF is all the proof I need they can. And i don't buy the excuse that good football teams can't come out of the New England.

 

[BUConn10]

The season just started and we have three injuries already. Ollie and the team could not afford to enter the PK80 without Cobb.
Based on last season , there's no room for error or sympathy. We needed to be 100%.
Are we ever gonna see Alterique play at 100%?

Regarding AG, considering the history of chronic issues on the same shoulder dating back almost 3 years, I'd say most likely no. That doesn't mean he can't be an asset to the team by any means though.

 

[BUConn10]

Remember UCF was 0-12 two seasons ago and now they are 11-0 and ranked 15th in the nation. Why can't UConn turn its program around? UCF is all the proof I need they can. And i don't buy the excuse that good football teams can't come out of the New England.

Because UCF isn't turning it around. Programs like UCF are a non-factor in basketball, they have zero historical success, therefore they have no baseline to compare to. What this season is is simply a stray from their norm, a flash in the pan, "just a good season". Under recruited guys occasionally will slip under the radar, find a home like UCF and once in a while all the cards fall into place where you get a couple of them and they stay for multiple years and you can make a run for the dance. That's it for UCF, they are turning anything around, their situation is completely separate from UConn's.

 

[SwingDog]

Because UCF isn't turning it around. Programs like UCF are a non-factor in basketball, they have zero historical success, therefore they have no baseline to compare to. What this season is is simply a stray from their norm, a flash in the pan, "just a good season". Under recruited guys occasionally will slip under the radar, find a home like UCF and once in a while all the cards fall into place where you get a couple of them and they stay for multiple years and you can make a run for the dance. That's it for UCF, they are turning anything around, their situation is completely separate from UConn's.

From 0-12 to seasons ago to 11-0 and a #15 ranking as I type is a turnaround in my book. And I'm talking about football here. Time will tell as far as what direction the football program goes from here. Now with basketball, at UConn there already is a tradition of excellence but they need to get back to that standard. The history is there and the opportunity to recruit from that esteemed position is there as well. Whether or not Coach Ollie is the man to lead that charge or not, I don't know.

 

[BUConn10]

From 0-12 to seasons ago to 11-0 and a #15 ranking as I type is a turnaround in my book. And I'm talking about football here. Time will tell as far as what direction the football program goes from here. Now with basketball, at UConn there already is a tradition of excellence but they need to get back to that standard. The history is there and the opportunity to recruit from that esteemed position is there as well. Whether or not Coach Ollie is the man to lead that charge or not, I don't know.

You are talking about football???

That is even LESS relevant to our situation than UCF basketball is then for that matter. UCF is in Florida, go and read my post on cultural differences for college football in this thread I think, basically how I feel about what your positing.

 

[Waquoit]

If you’re not ten steps beyond worried, you’re not paying enough attention.

It's a death spiral with no way out. We're the sports program equivalent of Charly from Flowers for Algernon. I still can't understand why we had no allies this entire time. I think it's because the UConn's of the world aren't supposed to win. And when we did, the nobles got pissed and the common ruck got jealous.

 

[SwingDog]

You are talking about football???

That is even LESS relevant to our situation than UCF basketball is then for that matter. UCF is in Florida, go and read my post on cultural differences for college football in this thread I think, basically how I feel about what your positing.

Sorry, I didn't find your post on cultural differences for college football, if you can post the link please. I do know there are certainly regional differences in terms of how football is viewed, even starting at the youth level. I still believe UConn can establish a quality football program though. With basketball, I think we're getting the recruits but somehow we are no longer the powerhouse we once were. I'm wondering with the tradition of winning established in the Calhoun era why UConn is not in the national conversation of the upper echelon teams on an annual basis. They should be. Not to say you don't have an off season on occasion but I just don't think the program is viewed with the respect and recognition it should, or at least could be.

 

[GemParty]

Is it a problem when your best 5 players are all guards/perimeter guys, yet you are an AWFUL outside shooting team?

& cant get assists.

 

[BUConn10]

Sorry, I didn't find your post on cultural differences for college football, if you can post the link please. I do know there are certainly regional differences in terms of how football is viewed, even starting at the youth level. I still believe UConn can establish a quality football program though. With basketball, I think we're getting the recruits but somehow we are no longer the powerhouse we once were. I'm wondering with the tradition of winning established in the Calhoun era why UConn is not in the national conversation of the upper echelon teams on an annual basis. They should be. Not to say you don't have an off season on occasion but I just don't think the program is viewed with the respect and recognition it should, or at least could be.

It was in the "if you want to fire Ollie" thread I guess.

I understand your frustration, you are right in that the fan turnout has not been up to par but I really do believe that passionate fan base DOES in fact exist, and in strong numbers.

I think a part of the problem is simply northeastern attitudes. We are the most densely populated region of the country, our surrounding sports teams typically have unparalleled success and cost of living is high so people, especially families (UConn is 100% a family friendly program and institution) means poor results tend to get people partitioning their income and time in different ways. This isn't the south where it's literally just farmland and a few family owned businesses in between, making the local college team literally the only thing keeping the community together day-to-day, there is a MAJOR cultural difference, and the fan turnouts will show that.

We also can't discount the opinions of the fan base. People often times here say things like "what is said on the Boneyard has no bearing on the program" which is obviously true in a literal sense, but how can the feelings of the program's most dedicated fans (who take the time to post on a fan forum) not in a way represent a general feeling of the overall fan base? These opinions and feelings trickle down, people talk around beers when at the bar watching the highlights of yet another head scratching defeat. And to my main point, when the fan base is unhappy they will let it be known, and administration will be forced to make changes, whether right or wrong, it's simply business, we live in a culture where capitalism permeates every aspect of our lives (I know I know commie!) but at the end of the day money talks, and for UConn bball that's basically just ticket sales (and no real TV deal money) at the moment in this collegiate athletics oligarchy.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I’m not sure what it will take to make him realize that what he’s trying to do isn’t working.

Every time we turn around, we have some new, dubious milestone - first time losing to a Connecticut school in 30 years, first losing record in 30 years, first opening game loss on campus, worst loss in 40 years...

We can’t get a shooter on campus, we can’t put together a competent front court, a couple of his best recruits never made it and a trio of the ones who did bailed out.

He’s being paid an absolute fortune, attendance has fallen off the table, the athletic subsidy is growing because our former cash cow program is waning....and Conference realignment is looming, probably for the very last time, in about three to five years and we are absolutely destined for permanent out status right now.

If you’re not ten steps beyond worried, you’re not paying enough attention.

I don't disagree, but if you're the UConn AD... what can you do at this point but wait and pray that Ollie somehow figures it out? Can't afford a buyout at this point, right? Or is that the last-ditch hail mary pass? Is that something you do now or wait until the end of the season?

 

[SwingDog]

I think at this point we take a breather and try and put this season in perspective. We're 4-2 with 80% or so off the season still ahead. Hopefully the ship gets righted. You have to wonder though if it doesn't if KO gets a pass because he had to work with an entirely new team, aside from Adams and Vital. If he does get a pass, you have to wonder how does Calipari manage to reload every year and build a contender.

 

[Marat]

I think at this point we take a breather and try and put this season in perspective. We're 4-2 with 80% or so off the season still ahead. Hopefully the ship gets righted. You have to wonder though if it doesn't if KO gets a pass because he had to work with an entirely new team, aside from Adams and Vital. If he does get a pass, you have to wonder how does Calipari manage to reload every year and build a contender.

I'ld imagine KO would have it much easier if he had Calipari's 5* recruits ..... it gets back to recruiting.

 

[SwingDog]

I'ld imagine KO would have it much easier if he had Calipari's 5* recruits ..... it gets back to recruiting.

Indeed, recruiting is a big piece. Do you think with 4 national championships and a slew of exceptional NBA players that we should be able to compete with the UK's, Duke's and UNC's? I would think with hitting the recruiting trail there is a great resume' but the thing that hurts most is a lackluster showing over the past few years and also playing in what is considered an inferior conference. I tend to think the latter is somewhat of a non-issue because the bottom line is you need wins.

 

[Towney007]

Has zero to do with football. If basketball was so critical, it would have already pushed us into a P5. It didn't because it doesn't move the needle when you cut through it all.

But football hasn't either. They took in $9.6 in revenue last year. They spent $14.2 million. Hoops were profitable.

Which is to my point - you can't do both. And looking at the bottom line in the Big East, being able to generate revenue isn't exactly a qualification for admittance. Or having football.

 

[Bagel&Cheese]

I’m not sure what it will take to make him realize that what he’s trying to do isn’t working.

Every time we turn around, we have some new, dubious milestone - first time losing to a Connecticut school in 30 years, first losing record in 30 years, first opening game loss on campus, worst loss in 40 years...

We can’t get a shooter on campus, we can’t put together a competent front court, a couple of his best recruits never made it and a trio of the ones who did bailed out.

He’s being paid an absolute fortune, attendance has fallen off the table, the athletic subsidy is growing because our former cash cow program is waning....and Conference realignment is looming, probably for the very last time, in about three to five years and we are absolutely destined for permanent out status right now.

If you’re not ten steps beyond worried, you’re not paying enough attention.

Well said Fishy!

 

[Fishy]

I don't disagree, but if you're the UConn AD... what can you do at this point but wait and pray that Ollie somehow figures it out? Can't afford a buyout at this point, right? Or is that the last-ditch hail mary pass? Is that something you do now or wait until the end of the season?

First, he doesn’t deserve to be fired right now. Not even at the end of the year...

That’s not what I’m saying.

The best thing for us is that he right the ship.

 

[dennismenace]

Yeah I mean this all pretty loaded, for one. Because other things are at stake.

I guess my worldview of this whole period of athletics is/was this:

We had a chance to really run a draw play, and put together a competitive football program and simultaneously keep the basketball program at an elite level - but the window to do it and the margin for error was really small. It was made smaller by realignment and it's been shrinking even more (and more rapidly) with every misstep.

Edsall left. Then the Big East blew apart. Then Calhoun stepped down. Then probation. Then Pasqualini. Then Diaco. With the exception of a spirited '13 and the great run in the '14 tournament, Ollie's been almost a total bust. And it's just been more steps back since then. And more money spent for progressively worse results. And now you have this whole other element of the state budget crisis starting to bubble up and I dunno - it's a perfect storm of awful, really.

We had a chance to have both football and hoops and I just think that realistically, that window slammed shut pretty quickly and we didn't make it through the opening in time. Simple reality is that we're not at a point financially, from a recruiting standpoint, marketing standpoint, prestige standpoint where you can have both at a high level.

And that's not even getting into your standard-issue, sheer endurance test you're asking fans to take part in and expecting them to be OK with. You're asking fans to sit around and watch Villanova, Marquette, Butler, Creighton and even freaking Providence and Seton Hall doing *perfectly fine* in the new Big East and in other cases - seeing Xavier up their profile as well.... all of whom avoided football entirely - and they're fine, they've maintained, gotten better academically AND athletically.

And meanwhile they look at their pocket schedule and here's UConn playing none of those guys, but rather East Carolina with marketing behind it that says 'yeah we know we shouldn't be playing these bums, we're better than them anyway and don't worry, just show up and play pretend with us for a few years and we'll be on to facing the REAL teams in a few years. Once the football team figures its face out." It's legitimately counter-intuitive marketing.

And then I look at the long view for football and I dunno what we're really even chasing. I mean since the last round of realignment, the Big XII is already looking like that's going to fall apart. Which means the Pac-12, B1G, ACC and SEC pack in more schools - and then they may even consider kicking out social loafers. And that just leads to this endless cycle of stupidity. I love that TV $$ too but at what point do people just sit back and ask themselves whether chasing that is worth literally blowing every other thing up about your athletic department - especially the hoops program - which has quite literally been the rocket fuel to help the University boost its profile.

There's a TV rights bubble brewing. The conference realignment stuff is going to continue to be a mess. I don't know why, how or where we'd fit or whether it's even a real, legit fix long term. Now you've got the feds getting involved in hoops recruiting, and it's only a matter of time before they're involved in football recruiting, too. Football in general might be headed to a real bubble with the way it's youth participation rates are trending...

I'm sitting here looking at this really awesome basketball program (s) we've had over the years that's been really helpful to boosting the profile of the university and serving as a deep source of civic pride in a state where nothing seems to be going well anymore and saying to myself 'gee, this is really nice, I appreciate it and want to see it do well, let's just go to the new big east and see where things go.'

Instead - *because we are chasing football* - we are in a conference with opponents that no one has interest in seeing us play. With no real geographic bump... I mean honestly I'd rather see us play St John's 15 times a year than I'd want to see us play Memphis once. Because there's history there, a common, shared history. There's less interest in the hoops program not just because the team is getting worse - but because the opponents aren't interesting.

I think the scenario that no one wanted to have happen - having to choose between football and hoops - is going to be a decision they're going to have to make. And if it's me - i'm for saving hoops all day over anything with the football program. I dunno where i'm even going with all this, but I'm just cooked on this stuff. They're outta time. They've gotta make a decision. What sucks is the progressive incompetence of Ollie is helping to close that window, so a first part of that bigger decision is figuring out what to do with him.

Very good summary. In short we had and to some degree still have a great basketball program. Football program has never been. It will be much easier to resurrect the basketball program (though it won't be easy at all) than establish a football program at this point I believe. If I were the AD I would have planning options which many have already suggested re: Kevin Ollie. None of us (probably) know the full inside story and where it is going but I suspect the AD probably does. The Big East is one of those options (presumably/ we don't know) and the powers that be would have to look at the revenue stream of: Big East or not and/or sit tight for the time being and try to resurrect both in the AAC. I think this is what you just said and IF the numbers are favorable only for Big East basketball so opt. That might be in the cards if P5 looks extremely doubtful for the foreseeable future.

I am of the opinion that the Uconn brand is still big and the decision on the coaching will probably dictate where all this goes
in the short term. Uconn is a state academic institution first and foremost. The word state (and all that entails) and academic
need to be highlighted. As important as sports are they are not going to supersede those issues. That would be the tail wagging the dog. I don't think the Administration wants the basketball program to go down and the AD will address that. We also don't really know what the Administration knows about the likelihood of P5 acceptance.

If P5 is even a somewhat remote possibility that will drive everything and the Big East will wait. To disrupt that somewhat remote possibility, if indeed it even exists, by moving towards the Big East is a non starter. As a basketball fan I would love to see a renewal of Big East rivalry but the bigger picture most probably includes at least a somewhat remote possibility of P5.

I am guessing we are going to have to live by faith and hope for the foreseeable future.

So: Resurrect the basketball program with or without KO in the near future (maybe a decision by season end). Big East decision, if any, depends on likelihood of P5 in the near future.

There are financial headwinds that might bring this to a head sooner than we think as far as the State's finances but only the insiders have the full information to make those calls. Fingers crossed.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I’m not sure what it will take to make him realize that what he’s trying to do isn’t working.

Every time we turn around, we have some new, dubious milestone - first time losing to a Connecticut school in 30 years, first losing record in 30 years, first opening game loss on campus, worst loss in 40 years...

We can’t get a shooter on campus, we can’t put together a competent front court, a couple of his best recruits never made it and a trio of the ones who did bailed out.

He’s being paid an absolute fortune, attendance has fallen off the table, the athletic subsidy is growing because our former cash cow program is waning....and Conference realignment is looming, probably for the very last time, in about three to five years and we are absolutely destined for permanent out status right now.

If you’re not ten steps beyond worried, you’re not paying enough attention.

I'd like you to be wrong, but I'm tilted more toward your being more right than wrong. I'm not even sure that's one pom-pom.
I want to argue that it was just one game, but this was the total beat down that's been avoided for the last 2-3 years every time a late rally after a horrible start has fallen short and resulted in a 'respectable' looking score.
We been outscored 106-66 over our last two games' second halves. That's way beyond dreadful.
What's more dismaying is that I could write this post beneath several posts down the page, including some written by people I dislike or ignore.
And I was liking this team up through halftime against Michigan State.
I find myself taking solace in having survived letting go of all other decades-old sports passions,and having a rich multigenerational family life as I slide into the "kinda old" status a grandson claimed a couple years ago.
Wait, maybe it's just that we really missed Cobb this tournament.

 

[Blaneylover]

Do you think there’s a way we make the tournament and still fire him? Because honestly our win against Oregon looked like a win despite Ollie’s offensive “sets.” I feel like any run to the tournament at this point will be flukey given the ineptitude Ollie has instilled on offense, and last night on defense. Problems also exist in player’s perceptions of him and their trust in him. Even CV thought about leaving last year supposedly. I feel like a tournament appearance would just mask the problem at this point.

I think making the tournament saves him for another year. I am not sure what is going on with last year's transfers or what may be going on at the moment among this year's players. I do believe that Mr. Benedict cannot afford to wait much longer beyond this season. Too much is at stake.

 

[Fishy]

I'd like you to be wrong, but I'm tilted more toward your being more right than wrong. I'm not even sure that's one pom-pom.
I want to argue that it was just one game, but this was the total beat down that's been avoided for the last 2-3 years every time a late rally after a horrible start has fallen short and resulted in a 'respectable' looking score.
We been outscored 106-66 over our last two games' second halves. That's way beyond dreadful.
What's more dismaying is that I could write this post beneath several posts down the page, including some written by people I dislike or ignore.
And I was liking this team up through halftime against Michigan State.
I find myself taking solace in having survived letting go of all other decades-old sports passions,and having a rich multigenerational family life as I slide into the "kinda old" status a grandson claimed a couple years ago.
Wait, maybe it's just that we really missed Cobb this tournament.

The late rallies have helped mitigate one truly awful stat.

In Ollie’s first couple of years, we lost one game by 20 or more. We’ve lost five games by more than 20 in just the past season-plus - and we were down 20 in about four other games.

We’re not only losing, we’re getting stomped.

 

[Tex-Lager93]

I’m not sure what it will take to make him realize that what he’s trying to do isn’t working.

Every time we turn around, we have some new, dubious milestone - first time losing to a Connecticut school in 30 years, first losing record in 30 years, first opening game loss on campus, worst loss in 40 years...

We can’t get a shooter on campus, we can’t put together a competent front court, a couple of his best recruits never made it and a trio of the ones who did bailed out.

He’s being paid an absolute fortune, attendance has fallen off the table, the athletic subsidy is growing because our former cash cow program is waning....and Conference realignment is looming, probably for the very last time, in about three to five years and we are absolutely destined for permanent out status right now.

If you’re not ten steps beyond worried, you’re not paying enough attention.

I'm not sure it could be summed up any better. I was thinking along these same lines last night. One of the worst losses in years following the worst season in years. How many more 'worst ever' things have to happen to force a change? Personally, I think we've had pretty good recruiting - and with a core like Adams, Gilbert and Larrier, we should be able to, at a minimum, compete with anybody. But, where Calhoun was a master of doing more with less than anyone in the country, Ollie is the opposite - doing way less with more. I'm not sure why it bothers me so much - but it does. I got so angry when leading up to the PK80 because the espn analysts didn't even acknowledge UConn when listing the 8 teams to watch. And I hate when folks talk about blue bloods - and they only list UNC, Duke, Kansas and Kentucky...when UConn has won more National Championships in the past 20 years than any of them. We've never fully gotten respect - and I'm okay with that (being the underdog) - but when I see us losing relevance (not ranked, not making tournaments, not being discussed), it really is disheartening. So, yes I'm way beyond the worry stage.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Because UCF isn't turning it around. Programs like UCF are a non-factor in basketball, they have zero historical success, therefore they have no baseline to compare to. What this season is is simply a stray from their norm, a flash in the pan, "just a good season".

You are 180 degrees wrong on this one. UCF has been called, for quite a few years now, the "sleeping giant" of college athletics. They have an enrollment of 65,000. That's double ours, 50% larger than Michigan, and about the same size as Ohio State. They're located in a state with 21 million people in it, and it's growing. For comparison, Connecticut has a population of 3.6 million, and ranked 2nd in a recent poll of states people would like to leave.
Finally, they are located in Orlando, Florida.
UCF has put their stake in the ground. They are big time. They will continue to be big time.

They will end up in a P5 before us, I'd unfortunately bet.

 

[MadDogRevival]

I find myself taking solace in having survived letting go of all other decades-old sports passions,and having a rich multigenerational family life as I slide into the "kinda old" status a grandson claimed a couple years ago.

I could be you - you could be me. I feel exactly the same. I look back at my life and I wonder, really, what all the fuss was about with sports. My family was a huge sports family, and so I got to experience Parcell's Giants, the 86 Mets, and UConn Basketball, as well as playing three sports in high school. I don't have any regrets, but, if I had to do it over again, I'd probably jettison everything but UConn basketball.

And really, as the last few years and yesterday have made clear, the "UConn Basketball" that I have loved lo these passing decades may end up just having been "Jim Calhoun Basketball," and I just didn't recognize it for what it was until it was gone.

 

[BlueDogs]

You are talking about football???

That is even LESS relevant to our situation than UCF basketball is then for that matter. UCF is in Florida, go and read my post on cultural differences for college football in this thread I think, basically how I feel about what your positing.

Football is all that matters in the current conference and media dollar landscape. If anyone gave 2 Schnits about our national championships we would be in the B1G or Big 12. They don't and uconn basketball better be hoping and praying Edsel can get the football program in solid shape for conference realignment or kiss basketball goodbye.