More fallout from Louisville/Oregon/Russell

[John Glass]

Also would've kept Kim Mulkey's daughter from playing for Baylor. Or Erica McCall from considering Bakersfield.

great minds think a like

 

[Icebear]

Yes, and I would forbid all those kids from playing for parents. Rene Portland had a daughter play for her, too. Developmentally, it is good for those players to go play for someone else. It will not hurt them financially since the player will be on scholarship wherever. But the easy amendment is to say, "No player may play at a university where his or her parent has been hired on staff less than two years prior to their enrollment."

 

[Alydar]

The rule I was thinking about was one that made it a violation to offer a player for the purpose of luring a better player.

 

[tennfanatic00]

Seems like the topic has diverted onto a different path here.

Though seedy at best, I don't have as much of a problem with a school offering a job to a family member so that they can procure the recruit.

The issue here is quite different. We are talking about jerking kids around, not adults. Louisville (and they were the only school in Mercedes' recruitment to do this) offered a kid who was clearly not up to the standard of their program just to sway Mercedes. That, in and of itself, is shady though I don't have that much of an issue there.

The big issue is that when Mercedes decided to sign elsewhere, they pulled the scholarship of her friend because they didn't need her as leverage anymore. That is a terrible way to treat a kid. Even if Reynolds knew it was going on at the time, that in no way makes this right.

I have several sources that tell me they pulled the scholarship when they knew they could sign someone more talented. They signed a JUCO guard yesterday to fill her spot.

It's tough to break into the big time and sign that program changing recruit. Mercedes could have been that for post-Angel Louisville. They went all out for her and I applaud that, but I cannot ever advocate pulling a scholarship just because the kid didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

Waltz went in to her house, talked to her parents, made promises and said that he would treat her well, develop her, all the standard stuff to get a kid to sign. Then to just back out because you didn't land her best friend? It really makes me dislike this guy.

 

[meyers7]

The rule I was thinking about was one that made it a violation to offer a player for the purpose of luring a better player.

That would be hard to enforce. Who's to say they shouldn't be offered a scholarship? Walk-on's sometimes get scholarships.

 

[Forty_four]

Seems like the topic has diverted onto a different path here.

Though seedy at best, I don't have as much of a problem with a school offering a job to a family member so that they can procure the recruit.

The issue here is quite different. We are talking about jerking kids around, not adults. Louisville (and they were the only school in Mercedes' recruitment to do this) offered a kid who was clearly not up to the standard of their program just to sway Mercedes. That, in and of itself, is shady though I don't have that much of an issue there.

The big issue is that when Mercedes decided to sign elsewhere, they pulled the scholarship of her friend because they didn't need her as leverage anymore. That is a terrible way to treat a kid. Even if Reynolds knew it was going on at the time, that in no way makes this right.

I have several sources that tell me they pulled the scholarship when they knew they could sign someone more talented. They signed a JUCO guard yesterday to fill her spot.

It's tough to break into the big time and sign that program changing recruit. Mercedes could have been that for post-Angel Louisville. They went all out for her and I applaud that, but I cannot ever advocate pulling a scholarship just because the kid didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

Waltz went in to her house, talked to her parents, made promises and said that he would treat her well, develop her, all the standard stuff to get a kid to sign. Then to just back out because you didn't land her best friend? It really makes me dislike this guy.

Maybe not you in particularly, but the Summitt sure had a problem with Maya's mom situation.

 

[ThisJustIn]

agree, meyers -- which was the point of my original post... ethical issues are hard to nail down, if the process of recruiting is not transparent to all (see the they said/he said happening in Lakers land)

 

[UConnCat]

I have several sources that tell me they pulled the scholarship when they knew they could sign someone more talented. They signed a JUCO guard yesterday to fill her spot.

Jody Demling, a reporter formerly with the Courier-Journal and who now covers Louisville sports for Louisville.Scout.com, says that Louisville did not withdraw Montgomery's offer. His understanding of the situation was that she backed off her commitment. Do you have better sources than Jody?

 

[tennfanatic00]

Maybe not you in particularly, but the Summitt sure had a problem with Maya's mom situation.

Like I said, a little seedy...but I understand that recruiting gets that way. Some fans are very naive about the process which is getting more cutthroat daily.

I just don't think any adult should treat a 17 year old kid like she's bait.

 

[tennfanatic00]

Jody Demling, a reporter formerly with the Courier-Journal and who now covers Louisville sports for Louisville.Scout.com, says that Louisville did not withdraw Montgomery's offer. His understanding of the situation was that she backed off her commitment. Do you have better sources than Jody?

Yes, I do. I have sources that are very close to the family. She knew Mercedes was going to UT when she committed to Louisville. I suppose one could say she got cold feet about moving cross country, but I know that is not the case here.

I am told that Louisville politely told her that she might want to look elsewhere because she would not cut it there. And while the tact was appropriate, the acts themselves are deplorable.

Also, just objectively...look at the timing. She decommits then another recruit who was already on campus commits right away? That was lined up by the school.

 

[UConnCat]

Yes, I do. I have sources that are very close to the family. She knew Mercedes was going to UT when she committed to Louisville. I suppose one could say she got cold feet about moving cross country, but I know that is not the case here.

I am told that Louisville politely told her that she might want to look elsewhere because she would not cut it there. And while the tact was appropriate, the acts themselves are deplorable.

Also, just objectively...look at the timing. She decommits then another recruit who was already on campus commits right away? That was lined up by the school.

The timing doesn't really prove anything. Even after Montgomery committed, Louisville was still recruiting and hoping to sign guards Imani Wright and Jordan Reynolds. Thus, it wasn't necessary for Montgomery to de-commit in order for Louisville to sign Breedlove. Why is it not the case that Louisville went after Breedlove after losing out on both Wright and Reynolds? I'm not suggesting that Walz didn't do what your sources state he did -- I have no idea, but experience has taught me not to trust the anonymous sources of Tennessee fans -- but your theory based on the timing of events doesn't necessarily add up.

 

[Vowelguy]

I am told that Louisville politely told her that she might want to look elsewhere because she would not cut it there.

This has happened at several schools (Duke & UNC, I believe) and I'm not sure what to think of it. In all cases it was true -- so is it wrong to tell someone "you might want to look elsewhere because you have no chance to play here?" Yes, obviously, a lot depends on the context in which it is said.

Also, I'm surprised if the player was surprised to hear this. She wasnt anywhere near top 100 on anyone's list.

 

[tennfanatic00]

The timing doesn't really prove anything. Even after Montgomery committed, Louisville was still recruiting and hoping to sign guards Imani Wright and Jordan Reynolds. Thus, it wasn't necessary for Montgomery to de-commit in order for Louisville to sign Breedlove. Why is it not the case that Louisville went after Breedlove after losing out on both Wright and Reynolds? I'm not suggesting that Walz didn't do what your sources state he did -- I have no idea, but experience has taught me not to trust the anonymous sources of Tennessee fans -- but your theory based on the timing of events doesn't necessarily add up.

You're right. The timing may or may not have anything to do with it. My source is not of any Tennessee base at all. Like I said, my source is close to the family out in Oregon. If a school recruits someone and gets a verbal, I am of the opinion that should hold weight and the school should hold true to the acceptance of that verbal regardless of the baggage associated with it.

Montgomery was never going to get significant play time at UL. Everyone involved knew it even when she verballed. But Montgomery verballed even though she knew Mercedes was going elsewhere. This means that she was all in for UL until the school told her to look elsewhere. At that point it was clear she wasn't needed anymore.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Doesnt it seem strange that Louisville and the other schools Montgomery was considering arent on the same level?

From a post on the Louisville Forum, it said she was considering Louisville, Hawaii, Seattle and Va Tech..
She was supposedly ranked as a 3 star recruit and #57 at the guard position.
Would that be a player that Louisville would be activly recruiting and be a fit at their level, a top 25 program.
I can see by her ranking she probably would be a great fit at Hawaii, Seattle or Va Tech. But Louisville? Something aint Kosher with an offer from the Cardinals.

 

[wallman]

So I guess when someone from the Montgomery camp tweeted "the player got played" in knowing Russell was going to Tenn, wonder how that went over with Louisville fans and players. Don't think things would be hunky dory after that tweet.

 

[UConnCat]

Doesnt it seem strange that Louisville and the other schools Montgomery was considering arent on the same level?

From a post on the Louisville Forum, it said she was considering Louisville, Hawaii, Seattle and Va Tech..
She was supposedly ranked as a 3 star recruit and #57 at the guard position.
Would that be a player that Louisville would be activly recruiting and be a fit at their level, a top 25 program.
I can see by her ranking she probably would be a great fit at Hawaii, Seattle or Va Tech. But Louisville? Something aint Kosher with an offer from the Cardinals.

It did seem strange to many who saw her offer as part of Walz's plan to secure Russell's commitment. I doubt that Montgomery and her family didn't see that as well, but she (they) decided, at least initially, to commit to Louisville in any event with the hope of providing Alexis the opportunity to play and prove herself on a bigger stage. The question now is whether Montgomery chose to de-commit on her own or whether she was advised to do so by Walz; our Tennessee visitor says it was the latter and a reporter who covers the team says it was the former. It seems there may be more to this story.

 

[rjp172]

Reporters who cover teams are often instruments themselves to coaches. Their livelihoods rely on access that sometimes comes with a price.

 

[oneresult]

Two way street: LOI's can have anything added to it,and if it is accepted by the school they have to honor that. A lot of recruits have a lot in it to protect themself
[4 year schoolie,no cut etc,,,,]

 

[UConnCat]

Reporters who cover teams are often instruments themselves to coaches. Their livelihoods rely on access that sometimes comes with a price.

That's certainly true. And sometimes players' families say and do things to protect the players and themselves.

I'm not a big fan of Jeff Walz but concluding that he acted improperly in this situation may be premature.

 

[Outside Shot]

I agree with the point about the reporter- Demling. Clearly he relies on his relationship with the coaches for info. This is also a reminder that as much as we want to see program as families, many are very business-like, and that this is a cutthroat, pressure world. People do crazy things under pressure or in the name of ambition.

 

[UConnCat]

I agree with the point about the reporter- Demling. Clearly he relies on his relationship with the coaches for info.

Should we have the same concerns about the Scout reporter who covers the Lady Vols?

 

[Man-Man]

How about Duke offering Claire Watkins to lure Cierra Burdick

 

[Alydar]

For that matter were there any other top programs other than Tenn & Louis. that offered to Russells friend Reynolds?

 

[HuskyNan]

Two way street: LOI's can have anything added to it,and if it is accepted by the school they have to honor that. A lot of recruits have a lot in it to protect themself [4 year schoolie,no cut etc,,,,]

No, they can't be altered. Schools don't write the LOI; it's an i strument of the National Letter of Intent organization of the NCAA. It's essentially a standard contract. You can see one at this link - http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/nli/nli

LOIs are good for one year and renewable thereafter. Student-athletes can't negotiate protections such as 4 year schollie or no-cut clauses into them.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

How about Duke and the Waner sisters.

How about not true at all. Duke was taking Emily Waner either way, as the team needed a point guard. And Emily Waner was a top 60 player and the state player of the year in Colorado.

Might want to be aware of the facts before making a bold proclamation...