More conference realignment Hunger Games

[Fairfield Fan]

I know from experience that everyone at any university who works outside the athletic department or the advancement office thinks football has been a disaster for every major university

Amen!!!

 

[JordyG]

According to all the twitter insiders and comments ND has still said no thank you to the B1G, keeping the ACC as a major player. It seems the ACC is looking to raid both the Big 12 (West Virginia and Cincinnati) while pushing back hard at the SEC's attempt to dissolve the conference and holding on the Clemson, FS, and BC.

 

[CocoHusky]

According to all the twitter insiders and comments ND has still said no thank you to the B1G, keeping the ACC as a major player. It seems the ACC is looking to raid both the Big 12 (West Virginia and Cincinnati) while pushing back hard at the SEC's attempt to dissolve the conference and holding on the Clemson, FS, and BC.

Why do I get the feeling that a "soft" no as in : "B1G you need to put some more money on the table."

 

[broooce]

According to all the twitter insiders and comments ND has still said no thank you to the B1G, keeping the ACC as a major player. It seems the ACC is looking to raid both the Big 12 (West Virginia and Cincinnati) while pushing back hard at the SEC's attempt to dissolve the conference and holding on the Clemson, FS, and BC.

I can only think that ND is thinking it can still earn independent money via NBC while sharing in ACC revenue? Otherwise can the ACC approach the value of what the BIG and SEC are going to get in the future?

Then does this mean the ACC is a potential landing spot for UConn athletics?

Thanks for keeping your ear to the ground!

 

[JordyG]

I can only think that ND is thinking it can still earn independent money via NBC while sharing in ACC revenue? Otherwise can the ACC approach the value of what the BIG and SEC are going to get in the future?

Then does this mean the ACC is a potential landing spot for UConn athletics?

Thanks for keeping your ear to the ground!

ND may also be looking for a better deal by playing the SEC against the B1G. Remember, the SEC has for years been sending feelers out to ND, but ND wants a rival, such as BC to come along as a package deal. But lets be clear, the ACC ain't looking for another weak football team in their conference, nonetheless one weaker than BC, GT, and (ugh) Wake Forest. Clearly though, in this conference realignment welter Its ND holding all the cards, and no one else.

As for conference value, as I've said, in 5 years or so there will only be three conferences: the Super West, the B1G 10 (or 20), and the SEC with perhaps some assorted basketball only conferences. Down the road the B1G may have to accept UConn by default when conferences start gathering up stragglers. I don't see some sort of Super East (which include remnants of the ACC) being of commensurate value with the other three. It seems clear right now as well that the Big 12 isn't going anywhere quite yet.

 

[JordyG]

When this stuff is over we are going to see a bunch of Frankensteinian, cross coastal conferences with the PAC 12 disappearing. Two new rumors. Alabama, ND a few other big teams form a conference with some major Apple monies. Wildly farfetched? You bet. Second, NBC wants to grab the rights to the ACC with exclusive TV rights, keeping ND in the ACC, even if Clemson, NC etc. leave for the SEC. Then with only 8 teams left, and ND as its savior, a bunch of quality teams would join to get that NBC money. Boyo, stay tuned.

 

[JordyG]

Why do I get the feeling that a "soft" no as in : "B1G you need to put some more money on the table."

ND is playing bunch of conferences ,and now it appears NBC, for a bigger cut of the pie. How all this stuff affects bowl games and the CFB playoffs who knows.

 

[Carnac]

Free housing and excellent training table. Opportunity to earn NIL money. Opportunity to earn a college degree. Campus life. Adulation by an (often too) adoring fanbase.​

VS

Minor League Salaries​

Level	Minimum pay	23 weeks

Rookie	$400/week	$9,200
Hi A, Low A	$500/week	$11,500
AA	$600/week	$13,800
AAA	$700/week	$16,100

I'll take the free housing and excellent training table for $1000 Alex.

 

[JordyG]

Goodness. Twitter is burning with stories that NBC is going to take over the ACC keeping ND in the fold. Money talks y'all, and the peacock has deep pockets. After all, ESPN virtually tried to invalidate the ACC contract

 

[CONN78SEJ]

ND is playing bunch of conferences ,and now it appears NBC, for a bigger cut of the pie. How all this stuff affects bowl games and the CFB playoffs who knows.

P2 minus the NCAA has anti-trust and unfair competition written all over it, not to mention the replacement of amateur athletics and the CFB playoffs with defacto professional teams.

 

[JordyG]

whether the new entity will be able to exert monopolistic and anti-competitive pressures on the remaining firms.P2 minus the NCAA has anti-trust and unfair competition written all over it, not to mention the replacement of amateur athletics and the CFB playoffs with defacto professional teams.

There is no doubt that if the B1G and the SEC get to 24 teams apiece they will be in essence NFL D leagues. It would of course be better if the two conferences were to have 32 or more teams per conference, which would pretty much include all the major teams in CFB. But realistically, neither of these two conferences are going to be willing to swell to that number of members.

I think the problem with any claims of anti-trust violations is that these are all private institutions, whose primary agency is the business of education. I think any anti-trust accusers would have to prove whether these new super conferences will be able to exert monopolistic and anti-competitive pressures on the remaining college conferences in both academics and sports. I'm no lawyer and I'm probably wrong here, so black letter knowledgeable people please chime in on this.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

There is no doubt that if the B1G and the SEC get to 24 teams apiece they will be in essence NFL D leagues. It would of course be better if the two conferences were to have 32 or more teams per conference, which would pretty much include all the major teams in CFB. But realistically, neither of these two conferences are going to be willing to swell to that number of members.

I think the problem with any claims of anti-trust violations is that these are all private institutions, whose primary agency is the business of education. I think any anti-trust accusers would have to prove whether these new super conferences will be able to exert monopolistic and anti-competitive pressures on the remaining college conferences in both academics and sports. I'm no lawyer and I'm probably wrong here, so black letter knowledgeable people please chime in on this.

Of course it’s anti trust, it reeks of unfair competition and it’s a huge monopoly. When the Have Not’s become Have Not’s because of the actions of the Haves, and their raking in billions of dollars, Congress will step in. The whispers in Congress are already happening. When teams like UConn, South Florida, UCF, BYU, TCU, and Boston College start complaining that they can no longer provide the level of educational opportunities because they are barred from fielding teams in big time college athletics or any playoff system then something will be done. The B1G becomes Standard Oil and the SEC becomes US Steel thumbing their noses at the NCAA.

 

[Bone Dog]

The whole question of whether there’s antitrust implications is suggestive of the disaster college football has become for all these schools. I’m not a lawyer either. I’m a college professor. So maybe my perspective will sound peculiar. It’s this line in particular that catches my attention. It’s not mistaken, but it is revealing.

I think the problem with any claims of anti-trust violations is that these are all private institutions, whose primary agency is the business of education.

First, almost all of them are public institutions. I think this is what you meant to say, and it seems compelling. A public institution can’t really be accused of monopolizing a public interest. The public is essentially a monopoly, and must be so, as soon as it enters into any realm of business.

Second, and more importantly, we should ask what the impact of football interests has been on institutions “whose primary agency is the business of education.” How can educational institutions compete in education? That would be like competing in virtue or wisdom — we might think the very fact of the competition means the competitors have missed the point.

Of course, we’re only talking about competition in sports, and this need not impact the educational mission. In respect of most sports, this is surely true. But a few sports, mainly football and basketball, have become essentially business interests within universities. Maybe the administrations and faculties of these schools can keep this interest separate from their primary educational agency. Of course, we all know that all these schools compete for national educational rankings as well.

But the real question is whether a sports business has anything to contribute to an educational institution. Universities may be able to keep this business interest separate from their educational mission — spoiler alert: they mainly haven’t succeeded— but why should they have such an interest at all? We might as well ask if they should also maintain a hedge fund business within their enterprise.

Don’t worry, I understand that schools get lots of money from sports, as well as from the hedge funds (read endowments) they maintain. Without them, they’d be a lot poorer. But they might just be better at that primary educational agency.

 

[CL82]

From an insider named on Twitter.

Link?

 

[CL82]

Which is exactly why UConn is a better fit for the B1G than the SEC

I’m probably a better fit for Elizabeth Hurley than I am for Margot Robbie, but it doesn’t mean either one of them are likely to invite me to join them at any time in the foreseeable future ever.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

I’m probably a better fit for Elizabeth Hurley than I am for Margot Robbie, but it doesn’t mean either one of them are likely to invite me to join them at any time in the foreseeable future ever.

What do you think friends told Lyle Lovett when he told them he was thinking about asking out Julia Roberts? Hey, if Rutgers can get a date with the Big Ten anything is possible. Lol

 

[Kurebeach50]

As I said in an earlier post, Rutgers wants UConn in the B1G. It props them up, and restarts an old rivalry from Big East days that will definitely sell tickets.

AND gives them someone to beat up on.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

The whole question of whether there’s antitrust implications is suggestive of the disaster college football has become for all these schools. I’m not a lawyer either. I’m a college professor. So maybe my perspective will sound peculiar. It’s this line in particular that catches my attention. It’s not mistaken, but it is revealing.

First, almost all of them are public institutions. I think this is what you meant to say, and it seems compelling. A public institution can’t really be accused of monopolizing a public interest. The public is essentially a monopoly, and must be so, as soon as it enters into any realm of business.

Second, and more importantly, we should ask what the impact of football interests has been on institutions “whose primary agency is the business of education.” How can educational institutions compete in education? That would be like competing in virtue or wisdom — we might think the very fact of the competition means the competitors have missed the point.

Of course, we’re only talking about competition in sports, and this need not impact the educational mission. In respect of most sports, this is surely true. But a few sports, mainly football and basketball, have become essentially business interests within universities. Maybe the administrations and faculties of these schools can keep this interest separate from their primary educational agency. Of course, we all know that all these schools compete for national educational rankings as well.

But the real question is whether a sports business has anything to contribute to an educational institution. Universities may be able to keep this business interest separate from their educational mission — spoiler alert: they mainly haven’t succeeded— but why should they have such an interest at all? We might as well ask if they should also maintain a hedge fund business within their enterprise.

Don’t worry, I understand that schools get lots of money from sports, as well as from the hedge funds (read endowments) they maintain. Without them, they’d be a lot poorer. But they might just be better at that primary educational agency.

It contributes lots of money to an educational institution, which is a great thing, income from sports fueling the schools educational growth (new libraries, new research projects, free laptops and cellphones for all students, all kinds of new equipment, and of course better athletic facilities, better pay for the best teachers, etc), is all good and grows the school. However, when a school or by way of it’s parent organization (the SEC or B1G) with no oversight if they leave the NCAA, prevents another institution from doing the same thing, it’s no different than what Standard Oil and US Steel did to stifle competition, none at all. A P2 runs a huge risk at being broken up by Congress especially if they thumb their noses at the NCAA.

 

[Bone Dog]

It contributes lots of money to an educational institution, which is a great thing, income from sports fueling the schools educational growth (new libraries, new research projects, free laptops and cellphones for all students, all kinds of new equipment, and of course better athletic facilities, better pay for the best teachers, etc), is all good and grows the school. However, when a school or by way of it’s parent organization (the SEC or B1G) with no oversight if they leave the NCAA, prevents another institution from doing the same thing, it’s no different than what Standard Oil and US Steel did to stifle competition, none at all. A P2 runs a huge risk at being broken up by Congress especially if they thumb their noses at the NCAA.

This is probably just me, but I disagree that lots of money is always a good thing for a school. Yes, it can pay for all those things, and we can even begin to borrow the vocabulary of the markets and talk about growth. But as a faculty member of one of these places, I can say from experience that institutional growth can be bad. It can come to dominate the way the institution imagines what education is. Imagine even being able to call the SEC the parent organization of one of these schools. Yikes! An education doesn't require lotsa money, and the money can even get in the way of the education.

On the other hand, I don't doubt what you say about the rest of it, what happens if the school or the conference violates some regulatory policy, or whatever. And I also recognize the paradox of my own position -- a professor worrying about the impact of sports on the education while also being a sports fan. But I'm half-Irish, and my people have always had a flair for contradiction.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

This is probably just me, but I disagree that lots of money is always a good thing for a school. Yes, it can pay for all those things, and we can even begin to borrow the vocabulary of the markets and talk about growth. But as a faculty member of one of these places, I can say from experience that institutional growth can be bad. It can come to dominate the way the institution imagines what education is. Imagine even being able to call the SEC the parent organization of one of these schools. Yikes! An education doesn't require lotsa money, and the money can even get in the way of the education.

On the other hand, I don't doubt what you say about the rest of it, what happens if the school or the conference violates some regulatory policy, or whatever. And I also recognize the paradox of my own position -- a professor worrying about the impact of sports on the education while also being a sports fan. But I'm half-Irish, and my people have always had a flair for contradiction.

I here ya, I’m three fourths Irish. Lol

 

[JordyG]

Well, as I said, ND's has stood staunch in their no to the B1G, so the 10's borders are closed for 2022. It's USC (which was really a lure for ND anyway) and UCLA and that's all folks. But that doesn't mean the rest of these conferences are done with invitations and migrations. The ACC is putting feelers out to the PAC 12 looking for takers, and of course the SEC still wants Clemson, No. Carolina, Florida State and Virginia in their fold.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Well, as I said, ND's has stood staunch in their no to the B1G, so the 10's borders are closed for 2022. It's USC (which was really a lure for ND anyway) and UCLA and that's all folks. But that doesn't mean the rest of these conferences are done with invitations and migrations. The ACC is putting feelers out to the PAC 12 looking for takers, and of course the SEC still wants Clemson, No. Carolina, Florida State and Virginia in their fold.

Why would the SEC want North Carolina and Virginia? They both suck in football, only thing they can bring to the table is tobacco. That’s like the B1G going after Kansas and TCU. Lol

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Clears the path for Stanford to go to the Ivy League.

It won't happen. Stanford does not want to lowers its level of football play. Georgetown and UChicago, if they want to up their football programs, could be in the mix.

 

[JordyG]

Why would the SEC want North Carolina and Virginia? They both suck in football, only thing they can bring to the table is tobacco. That’s like the B1G going after Kansas and TCU. Lol

Because both of these teams expand their market, and the SEC has been looking toward expanding into that Virginia/DC market for a long time. Why do you think West Virginia was a final candidate just a few years ago? But ESPN stepped in and said they wanted Missouri, and that put the kibosh on that. NC is terrible in football as well, but that market is just as juicy or more. Right now the only thing really holding up the four teams from moving has been that sticky old Grant Of Rights thing. That would have been easy if the SEC and the B1G are or were set to migrate a total of 10 teams from the ACC, because the contract says 6 teams in the conference automatically voids the GOR contract. Since that doesn't seem to be happening the lawyers for these four teams have been working frantically to find loopholes. That's why the ND to the B1G was such a tipping point. ND's move would have meant a mass exodus of teams. But it seems right now that ND wants to have the cache of being the ACC's savior, not a conference decimator.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Because both of these teams expand their market, and the SEC has been looking toward expanding into that Virginia/DC market for a long time. Why do you think West Virginia was a final candidate just a few years ago? But ESPN stepped in and said they wanted Missouri, and that put the kibosh on that. NC is terrible in football as well, but that market is just as juicy or more. Right now the only thing really holding up the four teams from moving has been that sticky old Grant Of Rights thing. That would have been easy if the SEC and the B1G are or were set to migrate a total of 10 teams from the ACC, because the contract says 6 teams in the conference automatically voids the GOR contract. Since that doesn't seem to be happening the lawyers for these four teams have been working frantically to find loopholes. That's why the ND to the B1G was such a tipping point. ND's move would have meant a mass exodus of teams. But it seems right now that ND wants to have the cache of being the ACC's savior, not a conference decimator.

I think you’ve got marketing on the brain. If the SEC were to invite North Carolina and Virginia the yearly piece of the pie to SEC members would definitely decrease. They’re not doing that. The SEC wants to enrich the conference with power teams like Texas and Oklahoma, even though Oklahoma’s marketing demographics sucks big time. Saying West Virginia almost got invited to the SEC is like saying UConn almost got invited to the ACC. Lol

 

[CONN78SEJ]

It won't happen. Stanford does not want to lowers its level of football play. Georgetown and UChicago, if they want to up their football programs, could be in the mix.

Yeah right a bunch of lawyers and doctors playing big time football. Lol

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Yeah right a bunch of lawyers and doctors playing big time football. Lol

It was about joining the Ivy League.

 

[JordyG]

I think you’ve got marketing on the brain. If the SEC were to invite North Carolina and Virginia the yearly piece of the pie to SEC members would definitely decrease. They’re not doing that. The SEC wants to enrich the conference with power teams like Texas and Oklahoma, even though Oklahoma’s marketing demographics sucks big time. Saying West Virginia almost got invited to the SEC is like saying UConn almost got invited to the ACC. Lol

LOL. I didn't say W.Virginia almost got invited to the ACC. I said they were actually invited until ESPN stepped in at the 12th hour and forced the SEC to take Missouri. If you think market entry isn't important to these conferences, why hasn't the B1G extended an invitation to Oregon, which in comparison to Texas is far more a power team in BB and football than Texas? LOL. Because that market isn't as big as the huge USC/UCLA markets, even though those teams also haven't been power teams in football for years. LOL.

If the SEC wanted so badly to "enrich" the conference with strictly power teams, why haven't they extended an invite to Baylor, a real football and basketball power team? Or Louisville, which is the second biggest money maker in the ACC? Since when has Texas been a power team in football? That would be over 10 years. LOL. But the markets of both Texas and OK are large and lucrative, and the SEC jumped at the chance. No matter how many teams migrate to the SEC, and believe me, the SEC isn't finished acquiring teams, the cut for each team will shrink under the current contract. The SEC's GOR contract extends to 2035-36 (although their Tier One deal with CBS ends in 2023-24). That isn't changing. The only way to really infuse monies for their providers is to open into previously untapped markets. Understand, LOL? These conferences want to not only enhance their football profiles, but help enhance their providers market values as well. and new market entries are the ticket for that.

 

[SCGamecock]

I think you’ve got marketing on the brain. If the SEC were to invite North Carolina and Virginia the yearly piece of the pie to SEC members would definitely decrease. They’re not doing that. The SEC wants to enrich the conference with power teams like Texas and Oklahoma, even though Oklahoma’s marketing demographics sucks big time. Saying West Virginia almost got invited to the SEC is like saying UConn almost got invited to the ACC. Lol

It IS about marketing though. Jordy is right. The SEC has wanted in on NC and proximity to the DC metro for awhile. That’s a coveted market.

Adding UNC and UVA isn’t about the current contract, sure.. if both were added today the slice of the pie gets smaller. This is about the NEXT contract, and both the B1G and the SEC have renegotiations coming up in a few years. The more lucrative markets (and brands/teams) in your footprint, the more lucrative your media contract will be. It is widely believed that SEC/B1G schools will bring in $80-100 million from these upcoming contract negotiations. That’s just from the TV contract.. that doesn’t include other athletic/football (apparel rights, trademarks, game day sales) revenue. Schools are about to bank roll, and the SEC can ask for WAY more with UNC (HUGE brand/new market) and UVA (new market), Miami (brand/TV market) and unfortunately Clemson (brand) in the fold.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

It IS about marketing though. Jordy is right. The SEC has wanted in on NC and proximity to the DC metro for awhile. That’s a coveted market.

Adding UNC and UVA isn’t about the current contract, sure.. if both were added today the slice of the pie gets smaller. This is about the NEXT contract, and both the B1G and the SEC have renegotiations coming up in a few years. The more lucrative markets (and brands/teams) in your footprint, the more lucrative your media contract will be. It is widely believed that SEC/B1G schools will bring in $80-100 million from these upcoming contract negotiations. That’s just from the TV contract.. that doesn’t include other athletic/football (apparel rights, trademarks, game day sales) revenue. Schools are about to bank roll, and the SEC can ask for WAY more with UNC (HUGE brand/new market) and UVA (new market), Miami (brand/TV market) and unfortunately Clemson (brand) in the fold.

Some members might, but it has to be unanimous, doesn’t it? All it takes is one bad egg in the conference to shoot it down. UConn knows that all too well. I also see the attraction to Baltimore and DC for the SEC, it might be a market per se, but a desirable market I’m not so sure. JordyG isn’t right, if it’s all about marketing UConn would have been in the ACC years ago, instead of Louisville. It’s not, and Louisville is a tiny market but they had by far the better football program. All this talk is a moot point anyway as long as Notre Dame stays put.