Mississippi St @ #18 Arkansas - 2/11/21

[MSUrealist]

Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.

 

[HuskyMJ]

Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.

Vic deserves a lot of credit because he recruited McCowan. Saying is it Vic or McCowan is just pointless because recruiting is a big part of coaching and he deserves credit for that

 

[SECbbfan24]

Vic deserves a lot of credit because he recruited McCowan. Saying is it Vic or McCowan is just pointless because recruiting is a big part of coaching and he deserves credit for that

And the fact that McCowan developed tremendously at MSU under Vic and J. Harris .

 

[SCGamecock]

Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.

I hope those Texas fans pump their brakes. Vic is a really good coach. He needs to get his players in. It takes several years to build the kind of roster depth and continuity needed to sustain an elite program. If you want elite, then give him time to build. He’s a proven builder.

 

[MSUrealist]

SCGamecock, I agree with you. He is a very good coach and while his recruiting classes at Starkville were never consistently on par with the other elite programs, early indication are that this will change now that he is in Austin. As seen by my previous posts, I believe NMP will also be successful once she gets in her style of players and has a normal year to work with team. The signing class she put together on short notice is a good start towards better days ahead.

 

[Jmsdawg]

SCGamecock, I agree with you. He is a very good coach and while his recruiting classes at Starkville were never consistently on par with the other elite programs, early indication are that this will change now that he is in Austin. As seen by my previous posts, I believe NMP will also be successful once she gets in her style of players and has a normal year to work with team. The signing class she put together on short notice is a good start towards better days ahead.

You must be wearing rose colored glasses. We have 3 recruits for 2021, none ranked in the top 30. I realize the recruiting rankings are not ironclad performance statistics for college performance but they certainly are a indicator.

 

[MSUrealist]

Go back and look at VS's recruiting classes and you'll see that this year's class is on par with what he did in a typical year, and better than several years, even when his staff had all year to recruit. For example, last year his two recruits were #28 and #90. I believe his highest rated recruits in 8 years were Rickea at #14 and then Vivians, Hayes and Matharu were all in the upper 20's, maybe all at #28. On short notice NMP picked up the #40 and #55 player in the ESPN rankings, an athletic do everything point guard in Mia Moore, and I think Dense Carter is going to be a great get. Plus she picked up the transfer from Temple, Ashley Jones who was the AAC Newcomer of the year in 2019-20. You may not agree with my conclusions, but I think you'll find that my opinions are based on research and facts rather than just wishful thinking.

McCray-Penson Announces Women’s Hoops 2021 Signing Class - Mississippi State

In her first class as the head coach of Mississippi State women's basketball, Nikki McCray-Penson and her staff inked some of the nation's top players fo...

hailstate.com

 

[SimpleDawg]

Go back and look at VS's recruiting classes and you'll see that this year's class is on par with what he did in a typical year, and better than several years, even when his staff had all year to recruit. For example, last year his two recruits were #28 and #90. I believe his highest rated recruits in 8 years were Rickea at #14 and then Vivians, Hayes and Matharu were all in the upper 20's, maybe all at #28. On short notice NMP picked up the #40 and #55 player in the ESPN rankings, an athletic do everything point guard in Mia Moore, and I think Dense Carter is going to be a great get. Plus she picked up the transfer from Temple, Ashley Jones who was the AAC Newcomer of the year in 2019-20. You may not agree with my conclusions, but I think you'll find that my opinions are based on research and facts rather than just wishful thinking.

McCray-Penson Announces Women’s Hoops 2021 Signing Class - Mississippi State

In her first class as the head coach of Mississippi State women's basketball, Nikki McCray-Penson and her staff inked some of the nation's top players fo...

hailstate.com

The #40 and #55 ranked player of the year. Whoopppee. We're gonna make such improvements next year. Considering the roster turnover... also, how do you figure we'll be any better next year?

 

[SCGamecock]

FWIW, Nikki McCray was a GREAT recruiter at SC. She helped recruit one of our best classes, the #2 ranked 2014 class. She had a hand in the Kaela Davis and Allisha Gray transfers to SC as well. I think she can get it done at Mississippi State.

 

[MSUrealist]

SimpleDawg, obviously you don't follow MSU basketball very well. You mock the current recruits put together by a coach who didn't get hired until mid-April while ignoring how it compares to the Vic Schaefer classes. MSU was on the national stage following the 2016-17 team being in the national championship game. Here are the recruiting classes after getting in the national spotlight (with the ESPN player rankings):

2017--Myah Taylor #50, Bre'Amber Scott (unranked), Nyah Rate (unranked)
2018--Daphane White #45, Jessica Carter #46, Xaria Wiggins #54, Brittany Davis (unranked), Chloe Bibby (unranked)
2019--Rickea Jackson #5, Aliyah Matharu #28, Jayla Hemmingway #89, Jayma Mingo-Young #97
2020--Madison Hayes #28, Deyona' Gaston #90

Notes: Daphane White left before the season started. Deyona' Gaston detoured to Texas this year. In a past post I have mistakenly written that Jackson was #14 in her class--she was actually #9 when she signed and then moved up to #5. Matharu wasn't highly ranked when she signed or might have been unranked and she shot up the rankings after her senior season. And finally, I may have missed someone plus I didn't add in transfers, but the point is that Vic wasn't very good at bringing in elite classes even when he had one or two years to recruit the players.

 

[SimpleDawg]

SimpleDawg, obviously you don't follow MSU basketball very well. You mock the current recruits put together by a coach who didn't get hired until mid-April while ignoring how it compares to the Vic Schaefer classes. MSU was on the national stage following the 2016-17 team being in the national championship game. Here are the recruiting classes after getting in the national spotlight (with the ESPN player rankings):

2017--Myah Taylor #50, Bre'Amber Scott (unranked), Nyah Rate (unranked)
2018--Daphane White #45, Jessica Carter #46, Xaria Wiggins #54, Brittany Davis (unranked), Chloe Bibby (unranked)
2019--Rickea Jackson #5, Aliyah Matharu #28, Jayla Hemmingway #89, Jayma Mingo-Young #97
2020--Madison Hayes #28, Deyona' Gaston #90

Notes: Daphane White left before the season started. Deyona' Gaston detoured to Texas this year. In a past post I have mistakenly written that Jackson was #14 in her class--she was actually #9 when she signed and then moved up to #5. Matharu wasn't highly ranked when she signed or might have been unranked and she shot up the rankings after her senior season. And finally, I may have missed someone plus I didn't add in transfers, but the point is that Vic wasn't very good at bringing in elite classes even when he had one or two years to recruit the players.

When all else fails, accuse someone who's been here much longer than you of not knowing MSU basketball. Vic went to 2 National Title games with average recruiting classes, and McCray is sinking badly with a Preseason #6 ranked team.

There's no evidence that she'll do anything here in the future except maybe a little better than the awfulness she's put out this year. No evidence whatsoever. None.

And I see evidence so far to suggest Vic is recruiting better at Texas than McCray is recruiting at MSU. I mean, are you kidding me? He's gonna leave us completely in the dust by 2023.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

You must be wearing rose colored glasses. We have 3 recruits for 2021, none ranked in the top 30. I realize the recruiting rankings are not ironclad performance statistics for college performance but they certainly are a indicator.

It's not like Vic was lighting up the recruiting trail either.

Miss State isn't as good as it should be based on last season, but it's entirely possible that the roster was optimized to Vic's liking and she wants to optimize it in a different direction.

I would say it has been a rocky start but maybe it won't turn out so bad in the long run. Maybe it will just be different way of doing things.

But, I'd have big concerns if I was Miss State fan, I'm sure.
......

Vic wants to do things a certain way and it's going to be hard for him to do that with someone else's players who haven't ever been better than the sum of their parts. I am pretty sure he's going to win a great deal once he gets things to his liking.

 

[SimpleDawg]

It's not like Vic was lighting up the recruiting trail either.

Miss State isn't as good as it should be based on last season, but it's entirely possible that the roster was optimized to Vic's liking and she wants to optimize it in a different direction.

I would say it has been a rocky start but maybe it won't turn out so bad in the long run. Maybe it will just be different way of doing things.

But, I'd have big concerns if I was Miss State fan, I'm sure.
......

Vic wants to do things a certain way and it's going to be hard for him to do that with someone else's players who haven't ever been better than the sum of their parts. I am pretty sure he's going to win a great deal once he gets things to his liking.

Vic can get recruits that were not highest commodity in high school and mold a championship team. McCray almost certainly needs Top 20 recruits to compete. I highly doubt she has the eye and acumen of Vic to find a Vivians, McCowan, William, and Danberry.

Never mind we'll get thumped by Dawn, but by 2023 Vic will leave us in the dust with his much superior recruiting classes.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Vic can get recruits that were not highest commodity in high school and mold a championship team. McCray almost certainly needs Top 20 recruits to compete. I highly doubt she has the eye and acumen of Vic to find a Vivians, McCowan, William, and Danberry.

Never mind we'll get thumped by Dawn, but by 2023 Vic will leave us in the dust with his much superior recruiting classes.

Maybe, maybe not.

You've not really seen what a McCray recruit looks like yet.

Vic had buy in from his people. It's not necessarily her fault that she hasn't had the same buy in from her people, but it certainly could end up that way. I would be nervous.

 

[SimpleDawg]

Maybe, maybe not.

You've not really seen what a McCray recruit looks like yet.

Vic had buy in from his people. It's not necessarily her fault that she hasn't had the same buy in from her people, but it certainly could end up that way. I would be nervous.

Why isn't it her fault she hasn't had the same buy in? Why would these players refuse to play for her? She must be a monster behind the scenes or something.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Why isn't it her fault she hasn't had the same buy in? Why would these players refuse to play for her? She must be a monster behind the scenes or something.

They didn't commit to play for her and it's a strange time.

When the people that bring you into an organization leave it's really hard to keep everyone on the same page.

I've gone through it several times.

 

[triaddukefan]

When all else fails, accuse someone who's been here much longer than you of not knowing MSU basketball. Vic went to 2 National Title games with average recruiting classes, and McCray is sinking badly with a Preseason #6 ranked team.

There's no evidence that she'll do anything here in the future except maybe a little better than the awfulness she's put out this year. No evidence whatsoever. None.

And I see evidence so far to suggest Vic is recruiting better at Texas than McCray is recruiting at MSU. I mean, are you kidding me? He's gonna leave us completely in the dust by 2023.

To be fair... if you can't recruit better at Texas than at Miss State... then you have no business being a coach. No disrespect to Miss State intended.

 

[SimpleDawg]

To be fair... if you can't recruit better at Texas than at Miss State... then you have no business being a coach. No disrespect to Miss State intended.

It's possible to recruit better than Texas with a coach like Vic. Not saying that will be every year, but it is possible if MSU builds a longtime tradition where we're seen as a women's basketball school. But since Vic left so fast, the tradition isn't long enough to prevent us from going to the dumps quick. We have no chance of outrecruiting Vic now. Not with McCray at least.

 

[MSUFan2003]

It's possible to recruit better than Texas with a coach like Vic. Not saying that will be every year, but it is possible if MSU builds a longtime tradition where we're seen as a women's basketball school. But since Vic left so fast, the tradition isn't long enough to prevent us from going to the dumps quick. We have no chance of outrecruiting Vic now. Not with McCray at least.

I'm sure one of the reasons the Texas job was attractive to Vic is that it's easier to recruit there. Texas has better facilities, more funding, and a much better degree to sell.

 

[SimpleDawg]

I'm sure one of the reasons the Texas job was attractive to Vic is that it's easier to recruit there. Texas has better facilities, more funding, and a much better degree to sell.

From his introduction to Austin, I gathered his heart was in Texas or A&M all along, in the same way some people are Maroon for lyfe.

I don't think there was much reason besides that. I don't think he feared a recruiting decline or that he would check out after having a 27-6 and 15-4 SEC year. Nobody checks out after a slightly less good year.

I think we could potentially get back to being great again, but that will depend how much people care about women's basketball. If they care enough, we could potentially get back but it's not gonna happen under McCray. Her damage has already been done. I'd say Blair Schaefer for 2023 - I'm sure she'll be interested.

 

[MSUrealist]

It seems like people are quick to forget that the SEC coaches, the ones who know the league the best, had MS State picked to finish 5th in the league which might be a more accurate assessment than the often referenced preseason national poll. But whatever. In my earlier post I only listed the recruiting classes following MSU's appearance in the first national championship game and after all the publicity they receive for beating Connecticut. If MSU was ever going to recruit at the level of other elite programs then it should have been then, but the numbers clearly show that they didn't. That fact cannot be denied.

I can tell by posts on MSU message boards and here that Vic Schaefer is going to haunt MSU fans for many years. They will be counting the championships they would have had under Vic and hating any coach who isn't an instant success and constantly in the top-10 every year and final four every other year. And they will look at the recruiting classes he has in Austin and somehow think all of those players would have come to Starkville. I guess fans everywhere are like that.

 

[SimpleDawg]

It seems like people are quick to forget that the SEC coaches, the ones who know the league the best, had MS State picked to finish 5th in the league which might be a more accurate assessment than the often referenced preseason national poll. But whatever. In my earlier post I only listed the recruiting classes following MSU's appearance in the first national championship game and after all the publicity they receive for beating Connecticut. If MSU was ever going to recruit at the level of other elite programs then it should have been then, but the numbers clearly show that they didn't. That fact cannot be denied.

I can tell by posts on MSU message boards and here that Vic Schaefer is going to haunt MSU fans for many years. They will be counting the championships they would have had under Vic and hating any coach who isn't an instant success and constantly in the top-10 every year and final four every other year. And they will look at the recruiting classes he has in Austin and somehow think all of those players would have come to Starkville. I guess fans everywhere are like that.

Why is an SEC coaches poll more of an accurate assessment than the national poll?

Like what is this nonsense you're saying? You choose to take more credibility with the coaches poll because it suits your argument better. I'm sure if the national poll had us at #25 and SEC poll had us at #2 - you'll instantly latch onto the national poll instead.

 

[MSUrealist]

Wow, you are really saying that voters around the country know more about the SEC than SEC coaches? That might top your previous post of wanting Blair Schaefer to be the head coach in 2023. And to think, I was the one being accused earlier of wearing rose colored glasses. I'm going to step aside from this thread now and will let you have the last word if you want it.