Mississippi St @ #18 Arkansas - 2/11/21 | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Mississippi St @ #18 Arkansas - 2/11/21

Who will win this game?

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Slocum 11-15, Dungee 7-12, Ramirez 5-7 overall (and combined 5-8 behind the arc). Nice when your big guns all shoot like that.
 
MSU now has 6 losses, 5 of them to ranked teams and two of those went to overtime (and they do have 1 win over a ranked team). The roster coming into this season was more depleted than most realize with 5 scholarship players not returning, one player (Wiggins) hardly playing because of a medical condition, and then Vic rerouted a transfer and a recruit from MSU to Texas. I don't think the future is as dark as most Bulldog fans seem to think, but we won't really know one way or the other until NMP gets in her recruits next season and hopefully most of the Covid stuff will be behind us. While tonight's game was a loss, it seemed promising to me.
 
Mississippi State fought hard but had some defensive melt downs and Jackson struggled. There were a couple of really bad TOs in the 2nd half by here that likely cost them the game. One in particular, she had a wide open layup but turned her head before catching the ball and it went out of bounds. Held her head in her hands afterward really frustrated. Arkansas also seems to have turned a corner. They look a lot more confident in late game situations and have 4 games left against teams in the bottom half of the SEC.

Mississippi State is in serious danger of missing the NCAAs IMO. I could see 2-3 of Mississippi, LSU, Alabama and Missouri beating them. And I think they'll have a tough time vs. Tennessee next week. The only "gimme" game left is vs. Auburn.
 
MSUrealist said:
MSU now has 6 losses, 5 of them to ranked teams and two of those went to overtime (and they do have 1 win over a ranked team). The roster coming into this season was more depleted than most realize with 5 scholarship players not returning, one player (Wiggins) hardly playing because of a medical condition, and then Vic rerouted a transfer and a recruit from MSU to Texas. I don't think the future is as dark as most Bulldog fans seem to think, but we won't really know one way or the other until NMP gets in her recruits next season and hopefully most of the Covid stuff will be behind us. While tonight's game was a loss, it seemed promising to me.
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Hard for me to accept 8-6 record for this team. I realize COVID has impacted our record but it is obvious to me lack of motivation has impacted this team more than COVID. I did see improvement during this game, the players want to win, Nikki was more involved, and the players did not quit when things got tough. I fear the future will not come close to our recent past. Nikki is not the elite coach that Vic is and I fear that will impact future recruits. I wish we could have retained Vic or convinced Walz to replace Vic. Neither happened and we did not get an elite coach in Nikki. Hope I am wrong but so far Nikki has given us little evidence she is the right coach for MSST.
 
I can't but help of seeing all the similarities of comments about McCray, Fargas and Elzy. All of whom were Tennessee players. They also all served time under other head coaches but still, curious to say the least as most are not getting the most out of their talent and in Fargas' situation, she's no longer bringing in the top talent...:rolleyes:
 
I think not making the NCAA tournament is a real concern. Last night they did appear to want to win the game but it was the costly turnovers throughout that bit them in the rear.

Few teams can win a shooting match with Arkansas. We shot well from 3 but played into their quick shots/quick back down the floor strategy. I firmly believe we should have slowed down and worked more clock on a few possessions and would have likely had fewer turnovers but still could have had the same result.

I don't buy the young/depleted roster line. Bibby left because she was going to lose time to Jackson and Cooks. Right now I would give Cooks back and keep Bibby in a minute. Otherwise the only core loss was Danberry. Carter is our only post player and that's worrisome. Taylor has improved significantly and actually looked last night like the player I envisioned when she came to the program. The other players have regressed. Again, had we played like that against Bama or KY I think we win. SC and A&M have separated themselves as the best in the league. Beyond that there are 6 or 7 teams that all can beat each other on a given night.

We travel to Oxford Sunday and what has been an easy win the last few years isn't this season. If we play the same against Ole Miss as we did last night we should win but the remaining games become even more crucial as the month moves on.
 
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DefenseBB said:
I can't but help of seeing all the similarities of comments about McCray, Fargas and Elzy. All of whom were Tennessee players. They also all served time under other head coaches but still, curious to say the least as most are not getting the most out of their talent and in Fargas' situation, she's no longer bringing in the top talent...:rolleyes:
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I'm less than thrilled with McCray so far but to be fair she and Elzy are first year coaches who walked into situations where there were pretty high expectations given the talent on the rosters. There aren't many who don't have some growing pains. I am certainly not defending some of their losses and glaring issues but I wouldn't lump them in with Fargas.

Fargas seems like a good person but has had plenty of time to show her program is moving forward at LSU and so far she's done almost nothing. Her recruiting is suspect and they just don't seem to have the talent to compete at the high level of the SEC. LSU strongly supported women's basketball when they were winning and I think they would again. I do not see it happening under her leadership.
 
Jmsdawg said:
Hard for me to accept 8-6 record for this team. I realize COVID has impacted our record but it is obvious to me lack of motivation has impacted this team more than COVID. I did see improvement during this game, the players want to win, Nikki was more involved, and the players did not quit when things got tough. I fear the future will not come close to our recent past. Nikki is not the elite coach that Vic is and I fear that will impact future recruits. I wish we could have retained Vic or convinced Walz to replace Vic. Neither happened and we did not get an elite coach in Nikki. Hope I am wrong but so far Nikki has given us little evidence she is the right coach for MSST.
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Honestly I'm not sure wild horses could have kept Vic from going to Texas as it is "home". I also doubt Waltz would actually have left Louisville. I was pulling for Harris to get promoted and from what I gathered was the finalist with McCray but Nikki's experience leading a program won out in the end.

Not that you asked but I am not a fan of our AD in general and he's made some not great hires. The last two MSU ADs are now in the same roles at Florida and Alabama. I ask my fellow Bulldogs do you ever see a program like those hiring Cohen? They begrudgingly say no.
 
I find my opinion differs a lot from the typical MSU fan, but I don't think NMP inherited a great roster. People see Jackson and Carter and think that the roster is loaded, but multiple SEC teams have as talented a duo. And let's look at what is left from last year after that. Myah Taylor was a non-scoring point guard. Mingo-Young, Matharu, and Morris were all first year players who averaged 13, 10, and 9 minutes of playing time respectively. Sidney Cooks hadn't played a game in 18 months and Wiggins has hardly played this year because of a medical condition. Then you add in Madison Hayes and you have 9 players if you count Wiggins, a young team with inexperienced depth at the guard position and absolutely no depth at the center and power forward positions. I just don't see how people look at the roster and think Vic left NMP a program that was in great shape.
 
MSUrealist said:
I find my opinion differs a lot from the typical MSU fan, but I don't think NMP inherited a great roster. People see Jackson and Carter and think that the roster is loaded, but multiple SEC teams have as talented a duo. And let's look at what is left from last year after that. Myah Taylor was a non-scoring point guard. Mingo-Young, Matharu, and Morris were all first year players who averaged 13, 10, and 9 minutes of playing time respectively. Sidney Cooks hadn't played a game in 18 months and Wiggins has hardly played this year because of a medical condition. Then you add in Madison Hayes and you have 9 players if you count Wiggins, a young team with inexperienced depth at the guard position and absolutely no depth at the center and power forward positions. I just don't see how people look at the roster and think Vic left NMP a program that was in great shape.
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Vic had that same team plus Danberry, Bobby, and AEH and was a top ten team. Both Bobby and AEH left because the young kids were outplaying them and they lost playing time. This years team added Madison Hayes and Sidney Cooks. No way Nikki did not inherit a great roster. The major loss from last year was Vic. The difference in player motivation from last year to this year is obvious. Vic was involved the whole game, encouraging the team when they needed it and playing bad cop when that was appropriated. Turnovers are a major problem for this team, turning the other team over was a major asset last year. As for Myah being a non scoring PG, Vic‘s PG was the team quarterback, her job was to not turn the ball over and to get the ball to the scorers inside and outside when they were in position to score. We were a physical ball club now we want to play pretty ball in a physical league.
 
Jmsdawg said:
Hard for me to accept 8-6 record for this team. I realize COVID has impacted our record but it is obvious to me lack of motivation has impacted this team more than COVID. I did see improvement during this game, the players want to win, Nikki was more involved, and the players did not quit when things got tough. I fear the future will not come close to our recent past. Nikki is not the elite coach that Vic is and I fear that will impact future recruits. I wish we could have retained Vic or convinced Walz to replace Vic. Neither happened and we did not get an elite coach in Nikki. Hope I am wrong but so far Nikki has given us little evidence she is the right coach for MSST.
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Historically, once an elite coach leaves, the program takes a downturn. This true of all sports at all schools. You are very lucky if you can find an elite coach, and you should do all you can to support and keep them. Because the chances you will ever get an elite coach again are infinitesimally small.
 
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MSUrealist said:
I find my opinion differs a lot from the typical MSU fan, but I don't think NMP inherited a great roster. People see Jackson and Carter and think that the roster is loaded, but multiple SEC teams have as talented a duo. And let's look at what is left from last year after that. Myah Taylor was a non-scoring point guard. Mingo-Young, Matharu, and Morris were all first year players who averaged 13, 10, and 9 minutes of playing time respectively. Sidney Cooks hadn't played a game in 18 months and Wiggins has hardly played this year because of a medical condition. Then you add in Madison Hayes and you have 9 players if you count Wiggins, a young team with inexperienced depth at the guard position and absolutely no depth at the center and power forward positions. I just don't see how people look at the roster and think Vic left NMP a program that was in great shape.
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The roster isn't deep but last year was essentially these as starters:

Taylor
Danberry
Jackson
Carter
Bibby

Danberry graduated and Bibby left, likely concerned about Cooks. The two leading scorers and PG returned plus a highly regarded transfer became eligible. Add in the fact Hayes had a lot of hype coming in plus Matharu and Mingo-Young both showed they could put up numbers. From a 27-6 team that's a good reason to have expectations. AEH and Wiggins both played not many more minutes that the two now sophomore guards.

The lack of post depth is terrible and Morris hasn't given much relief. The inability of Promise Taylor to continue to play no doubt hurt the team in that department as she showed potential when she was at Ole Miss.

This may not have been a FF roster or even E8 with Vic but he didn't leave the program in bad shape at all. Only Taylor has shown any progress or growth this season. I bleed Maroon and will love the team regardless as we've seen much darker days than these. I just hate to see a roster that has this much talent seemingly languish.
 
As I said, my opinion differs from many MSU fans...but none of the above does much to change my mind. People seem to forget just how much Danberry meant to this team as a defensive stopper, ball handler, scorer and team leader. And the Chloe Bibby who supposedly was afraid she wouldn't play much--well you do know that she has started every game for #9 Maryland (13-2) and is averaging 14 ppg and 7 rebounds but let's pretend she wasn't much of a loss. And while Vic didn't have much playing time for AEH last year, it is still a big deal to lose a player who has already been the Big East player of the week twice this year at Seton Hall. Jayla Hemingway wouldn't have started this year but she is good enough to be playing 15 minutes per game at #19 West Virginia. And let's don't forget that last year there were many times when Wiggins looked deserving of being a starter and she has been unavailable most of the season. So yes, it has been a plus to add Hayes and Cooks this year, but let's not pretend that this team has the same talent level as last year.
 
MSUrealist said:
I find my opinion differs a lot from the typical MSU fan, but I don't think NMP inherited a great roster. People see Jackson and Carter and think that the roster is loaded, but multiple SEC teams have as talented a duo. And let's look at what is left from last year after that. Myah Taylor was a non-scoring point guard. Mingo-Young, Matharu, and Morris were all first year players who averaged 13, 10, and 9 minutes of playing time respectively. Sidney Cooks hadn't played a game in 18 months and Wiggins has hardly played this year because of a medical condition. Then you add in Madison Hayes and you have 9 players if you count Wiggins, a young team with inexperienced depth at the guard position and absolutely no depth at the center and power forward positions. I just don't see how people look at the roster and think Vic left NMP a program that was in great shape.
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This is the most tiring and lame excuse. Just stop. This team returns the same guys from last year that finished #9 in the nation, and started the year #6. Apart from Danberry. If McCray can't win without one player, she's probably not a good coach.
 
SimpleDawg said:
This is the most tiring and lame excuse. Just stop. This team returns the same guys from last year that finished #9 in the nation, and started the year #6. Apart from Danberry. If McCray can't win without one player, she's probably not a good coach.
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Losing Danberry but adding all american recruit in Hayes, getting Cooks eligible, she averaged 9.5 PPG as a sophomore for NCAA tournament team in Michigan State, then they added the grad transfer Thompson who put up good numbers at her old schools. More than last year. They lost Bibby but lets be be honest its probably because Cooks was projected to play more, Cooks was going up against her in practice every day. But Bibby now at Maryland has had better year than Cooks
 
Well obvious you think Bibby, Wiggins, AEH, and Hemingway were insignificant talents. We will have to agree to disagree on that.
 
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Bibby went into the transfer portal right after Vic left and before NMP was hired, plus MS State had no depth at her position and still doesn't. Why is everyone quick to assume that she left for fear of becoming a bench warmer?
 
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MSUrealist said:
Well obvious you don't think Bibby, Wiggins, AEH, and Hemingway were insignificant talents. Will have to agree to disagree on that.
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AEH played 12 minutes per game last year, shot 37%, only made 26% of her 3s, I mean her numbers went down across the board, now it is a loss? Do we think she would have played more this year after what she did last year?

Hemingway played 7 mpg, 1.6 ppg, 33% field goals. She is not lighting the world on fire at WVU either.

Bibby is a loss if you look at the stats but she regressed last year at MSU compared to her sophomore year and probably wasn't in line for big minutes. To her credit she is playing better now than she did at Mississippi State, 14 ppg, 7 rpg, maybe its a system fit for her. If we want to talk about losses, Bibby's new team Maryland lost a ton of talent to graduation, transfer, and injury but they are still trucking along and adapted. Granted they didn't go through coaching change but that is part of the evaluation when looking at State this year.
 
Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.
 
MSUrealist said:
Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.
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Vic deserves a lot of credit because he recruited McCowan. Saying is it Vic or McCowan is just pointless because recruiting is a big part of coaching and he deserves credit for that
 
HuskyMJ said:
Vic deserves a lot of credit because he recruited McCowan. Saying is it Vic or McCowan is just pointless because recruiting is a big part of coaching and he deserves credit for that
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And the fact that McCowan developed tremendously at MSU under Vic and J. Harris .
 
MSUrealist said:
Well we've probably beat this subject into the ground and no one is going to change their opinion or anyone else's. I suspect the same would be true if I wrote on the subject of "Was it Vic Schaefer or Tearia McCowan" so I'll skip that topic. Let me just say that I don't think this season has proven that NMP can or can't coach in the SEC, but I personally still think this will prove to be a good hire. Time will tell. FWIW, judging by their message board, I think many Texas fans are holding off on their conclusions regarding the hiring and performance of Coach Schaefer, being disappointed to some degree with this season but willing to wait until he gets in his type of players. He does have a great recruiting class lined up for next year, far better than any of his MSU years, so it will be interesting to see what Texas is like next season and the season after that.
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I hope those Texas fans pump their brakes. Vic is a really good coach. He needs to get his players in. It takes several years to build the kind of roster depth and continuity needed to sustain an elite program. If you want elite, then give him time to build. He’s a proven builder.
 
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SCGamecock, I agree with you. He is a very good coach and while his recruiting classes at Starkville were never consistently on par with the other elite programs, early indication are that this will change now that he is in Austin. As seen by my previous posts, I believe NMP will also be successful once she gets in her style of players and has a normal year to work with team. The signing class she put together on short notice is a good start towards better days ahead.
 
MSUrealist said:
SCGamecock, I agree with you. He is a very good coach and while his recruiting classes at Starkville were never consistently on par with the other elite programs, early indication are that this will change now that he is in Austin. As seen by my previous posts, I believe NMP will also be successful once she gets in her style of players and has a normal year to work with team. The signing class she put together on short notice is a good start towards better days ahead.
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You must be wearing rose colored glasses. We have 3 recruits for 2021, none ranked in the top 30. I realize the recruiting rankings are not ironclad performance statistics for college performance but they certainly are a indicator.
 
Go back and look at VS's recruiting classes and you'll see that this year's class is on par with what he did in a typical year, and better than several years, even when his staff had all year to recruit. For example, last year his two recruits were #28 and #90. I believe his highest rated recruits in 8 years were Rickea at #14 and then Vivians, Hayes and Matharu were all in the upper 20's, maybe all at #28. On short notice NMP picked up the #40 and #55 player in the ESPN rankings, an athletic do everything point guard in Mia Moore, and I think Dense Carter is going to be a great get. Plus she picked up the transfer from Temple, Ashley Jones who was the AAC Newcomer of the year in 2019-20. You may not agree with my conclusions, but I think you'll find that my opinions are based on research and facts rather than just wishful thinking.
hailstate.com

McCray-Penson Announces Women’s Hoops 2021 Signing Class - Mississippi State

In her first class as the head coach of Mississippi State women's basketball, Nikki McCray-Penson and her staff inked some of the nation's top players for th...
hailstate.com hailstate.com
 
MSUrealist said:
Go back and look at VS's recruiting classes and you'll see that this year's class is on par with what he did in a typical year, and better than several years, even when his staff had all year to recruit. For example, last year his two recruits were #28 and #90. I believe his highest rated recruits in 8 years were Rickea at #14 and then Vivians, Hayes and Matharu were all in the upper 20's, maybe all at #28. On short notice NMP picked up the #40 and #55 player in the ESPN rankings, an athletic do everything point guard in Mia Moore, and I think Dense Carter is going to be a great get. Plus she picked up the transfer from Temple, Ashley Jones who was the AAC Newcomer of the year in 2019-20. You may not agree with my conclusions, but I think you'll find that my opinions are based on research and facts rather than just wishful thinking.
hailstate.com

McCray-Penson Announces Women’s Hoops 2021 Signing Class - Mississippi State

In her first class as the head coach of Mississippi State women's basketball, Nikki McCray-Penson and her staff inked some of the nation's top players for th...
hailstate.com hailstate.com
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The #40 and #55 ranked player of the year. Whoopppee. We're gonna make such improvements next year. Considering the roster turnover... also, how do you figure we'll be any better next year?
 
FWIW, Nikki McCray was a GREAT recruiter at SC. She helped recruit one of our best classes, the #2 ranked 2014 class. She had a hand in the Kaela Davis and Allisha Gray transfers to SC as well. I think she can get it done at Mississippi State.
 
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SimpleDawg, obviously you don't follow MSU basketball very well. You mock the current recruits put together by a coach who didn't get hired until mid-April while ignoring how it compares to the Vic Schaefer classes. MSU was on the national stage following the 2016-17 team being in the national championship game. Here are the recruiting classes after getting in the national spotlight (with the ESPN player rankings):

2017--Myah Taylor #50, Bre'Amber Scott (unranked), Nyah Rate (unranked)
2018--Daphane White #45, Jessica Carter #46, Xaria Wiggins #54, Brittany Davis (unranked), Chloe Bibby (unranked)
2019--Rickea Jackson #5, Aliyah Matharu #28, Jayla Hemmingway #89, Jayma Mingo-Young #97
2020--Madison Hayes #28, Deyona' Gaston #90

Notes: Daphane White left before the season started. Deyona' Gaston detoured to Texas this year. In a past post I have mistakenly written that Jackson was #14 in her class--she was actually #9 when she signed and then moved up to #5. Matharu wasn't highly ranked when she signed or might have been unranked and she shot up the rankings after her senior season. And finally, I may have missed someone plus I didn't add in transfers, but the point is that Vic wasn't very good at bringing in elite classes even when he had one or two years to recruit the players.
 
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