Mets "hot" stove

Dove

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#3
Time to sweep the tumbleweeds from this dead thread...


Mets have to do this. Cano plays every freaking day (except when busted for PEDs). And still hits!!! Last season hit .303. I think there is three years of productivity here. And EDWIN DIAZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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#5
The Mets just hired a Red Sox guy for the front office so they picked the right franchise to emulate.
 

8893

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#6
It's a splash, that's for sure. Sounds like the prospects we're giving up are very good, and our farm system has been thin in recent years, but the team is still much more built for now than rebuilding, so I suppose this makes sense. We'll see. As a jaded Mets fan, I'm just waiting to see how we screw it up.
 

Dooley

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#7
Without knowing how much Cano money the M's are eating, and what the Mets are going to get in a Thor trade, the M's/Mets rumored trade is an absolute fleecing of the new Mets GM. The Mets are acquiring Cano's steady decline years - all 5 (FIVE!!!) of them - at no discount rate whatsoever. Yes, Cano can still hit. You know who else can hit? Daniel Murphy. Ben Zobrist. Jonathan Schoop. Jed Lowrie. DJ LeMaheiu. Josh Harrison. Ian Kinsler. Brian Dozier. All of those guys could be signed to a contract MUCH LESS than 5 years. LeMahieu or Dozier are probably the only guys on this list who would even sniff 3-4 years. And you can bet the farm that NONE of them will sniff $24M AAV.

I'm shocked that DiPoto was able to find a taker for one of baseball's worst contracts. It will easily become baseball's worst contract in 2 years. There is absolutely zero surplus value. And if the rumors are correct, all he had to do was package a closer to get it done?!? That's an absolute fleecing. They're also getting 2 of the Mets' best prospects!! Kelenic is going to rake. Dunn is a highly regarded arm when he was drafted (forgive him for going to BC) but is 1 year behind development because of surgery.

Why on Earth would the Mets give these 2 prospects up for a closer?? So they can - MAYBE - finish 3rd in the division?? The Braves are still loaded and got more loaded by signing Donaldson. The Phillies will likely sign Machado or Harper or both. The Nats still have a 1-2 SP combo that matches well against the Mets and a far better lineup, even if they lose Harper.

Plan B would have been so much more logical and profitable for the Mets. Sign one of those 2B I listed off to a market rate 2-3 year deal. Sign any of the umpteen closers/relievers on the market to a market rate 4 year deal. And if they still wanted to trade Kelenic/Dunn, there are TONS of teams looking to unload for youth.

Sign Jed Lowrie - 2 yrs/$22M
Sign Andrew Miler - 3 yrs/$40M
Trade Kelenic/Dunn/Bruce/Swarzyk/D Smith/whatever to Snakes for Goldschmidt and Greinke.

Keep deGrom. Keep Thor. With Greinke and Wheeler, the Mets now have the best rotation in the NL East. Trade your 2 best prospects for actual need (1B). Most importantly, don't tie your hands behind your financial back for 5 years and maybe just maybe be good enough to finish 2nd in the division behind the Braves.
 

Dooley

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#10
Reports are that the M's are eating up to half of Cano's remaining contract.
I guess that's a start. Still a head scratcher why they'd give up 2 of their top prospects for a closer when there are so many quality relievers on the free agent market. If they're going to deal prospects, use them to address a weakness that can't be filled via free agency.

But the deal appears to be "on hold" now. Hopefully the Mets are coming to their senses and telling the M's to go punt that Cano contract.
 

8893

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#11
I guess that's a start. Still a head scratcher why they'd give up 2 of their top prospects for a closer when there are so many quality relievers on the free agent market. If they're going to deal prospects, use them to address a weakness that can't be filled via free agency.

But the deal appears to be "on hold" now. Hopefully the Mets are coming to their senses and telling the M's to go punt that Cano contract.
I agree. I don’t love the deal. Hard to know with prospects because we haven’t seen them play, but, being a Mets fan, I have a gut feeling that we’ll be watching Kelenic and Dunn tear up MLB for years to come on other teams, while Cano is in decline and Diaz morphs into Benitez.

I also can’t believe we are re-signing D’Arnaud and letting Wilmer walk. D’Arnoud has been injured for five seasons in a row, while Flores has done everything asked of him.
 

Rico444

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#12
I guess that's a start. Still a head scratcher why they'd give up 2 of their top prospects for a closer when there are so many quality relievers on the free agent market. If they're going to deal prospects, use them to address a weakness that can't be filled via free agency.

But the deal appears to be "on hold" now. Hopefully the Mets are coming to their senses and telling the M's to go punt that Cano contract.
Diaz is better than any reliever on the open market outside of Kimbrel, who is 28 and wants a 6 year deal at huge money. Diaz is making the league minimum next year, then arbitration the next 3.

Cano at $12 million per year for 5 years is much easier to swallow than $24 million per. He played at an all-star level last year, and while there'll most likely be a few years of weak production at the end of the deal it should hopefully be cancelled out by great production these first two years; in fact, if Cano matches what he did in 2018 next season, $12 million is a bargain.

I'm not in love with the deal, but to say they got fleeced is completely unfair.
 

Rico444

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#13
I agree. I don’t love the deal. Hard to know with prospects because we haven’t seen them play, but, being a Mets fan, I have a gut feeling that we’ll be watching Kelenic and Dunn tear up MLB for years to come on other teams, while Cano is in decline and Diaz morphs into Benitez.

I also can’t believe we are re-signing D’Arnaud and letting Wilmer walk. D’Arnoud has been injured for five seasons in a row, while Flores has done everything asked of him.
Eh. Kelenic could be a star, so that one hurts, but Dunn is probably a mid-rotation starter at best.
 

8893

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#14
Eh. Kelenic could be a star, so that one hurts, but Dunn is probably a mid-rotation starter at best.
I agree. “Tear up MLB” was probably too strong for Dunn, but still a first-rounder who by all accounts remains solid.
 

Dooley

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#15
I agree. I don’t love the deal. Hard to know with prospects because we haven’t seen them play, but, being a Mets fan, I have a gut feeling that we’ll be watching Kelenic and Dunn tear up MLB for years to come on other teams, while Cano is in decline and Diaz morphs into Benitez.

I also can’t believe we are re-signing D’Arnaud and letting Wilmer walk. D’Arnoud has been injured for five seasons in a row, while Flores has done everything asked of him.
I can see the logic trading Dunn. Coming off surgery and the org has plenty of elite pitching. But I don't know if I'd rush to trade Kelenic unless they land a legit superstar. That's always the rub with prospects though, I suppose. He's yet to even play A-ball but the hit profile was elite entering the draft. All he needs is ABs to establish himself - his prospect and trade stock. If the Mets wanted to trade him, which I think is a mistake, they should at least wait until the trade deadline and let his 2019 ABs establish a higher draft stock. I would wager everything I own that Kelenic will be a top 25 prospect entering the 2020 season and, if the Mets still wanted to trade him, he alone might be enough to fetch a legit superstar.

Let the M's eat that Cano contract. They made that bed, let them lay in it. Go sign Andrew Miller or Craig Kimbrel or Adam Ottavino or David Robertson and they'll give you comp stats to Diaz...who will likely regress in 2019. Bring Daniel Murphy back on a team friendly 2 or 3 year deal and wait for Alonso, Gimenez, and Kelenic to get a full 2019's worth of MiLB ABs. Maybe Alonso will be ready for a wildcard push.
 

8893

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#16
I can see the logic trading Dunn. Coming off surgery and the org has plenty of elite pitching. But I don't know if I'd rush to trade Kelenic unless they land a legit superstar. That's always the rub with prospects though, I suppose. He's yet to even play A-ball but the hit profile was elite entering the draft. All he needs is ABs to establish himself - his prospect and trade stock. If the Mets wanted to trade him, which I think is a mistake, they should at least wait until the trade deadline and let his 2019 ABs establish a higher draft stock. I would wager everything I own that Kelenic will be a top 25 prospect entering the 2020 season and, if the Mets still wanted to trade him, he alone might be enough to fetch a legit superstar.

Let the M's eat that Cano contract. They made that bed, let them lay in it. Go sign Andrew Miller or Craig Kimbrel or Adam Ottavino or David Robertson and they'll give you comp stats to Diaz...who will likely regress in 2019. Bring Daniel Murphy back on a team friendly 2 or 3 year deal and wait for Alonso, Gimenez, and Kelenic to get a full 2019's worth of MiLB ABs. Maybe Alonso will be ready for a wildcard push.
Agree with all of this. Although you and I both know that if we bring Murph back we’ll be cursing him booting grounders in no time flat.
 

Dooley

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#17
Diaz is better than any reliever on the open market outside of Kimbrel, who is 28 and wants a 6 year deal at huge money. Diaz is making the league minimum next year, then arbitration the next 3.

Cano at $12 million per year for 5 years is much easier to swallow than $24 million per. He played at an all-star level last year, and while there'll most likely be a few years of weak production at the end of the deal it should hopefully be cancelled out by great production these first two years; in fact, if Cano matches what he did in 2018 next season, $12 million is a bargain.

I'm not in love with the deal, but to say they got fleeced is completely unfair.
Disagree. You don't have to sign Kimbrel. How's about Robertson? Miller? Ottavino? All elite RPs. 3-4 yr deals to any of those 3. Diaz had a great year in 2018. No doubt about that. But CP stats are completely driven by opportunity. M's played soooooo many 1-run games last year. Those insane 2018 stats will not be duplicated in Seattle or New York or anywhere else. He's a great reliever but you can protect your top prospects by signing a free agent instead.

Cano is 36 and post PED. Steady decline years coming. If you want an old 2B, sign Daniel Murphy or Ben Zobrist or Jed Lowrie. At least you're out of the contract in 2 or 3 years and have a spot for Gimenez in 2020/2021 when he's ready for promotion.

I can see trading Dunn. But cashing in Kelenic for a closer and a washed up 2B (and FIVE!!! years) would be a huge mistake.
 

Dooley

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#18
Agree with all of this. Although you and I both know that if we bring Murph back we’ll be cursing him booting grounders in no time flat.
I love Jed Lowrie. He's not a sexy name but the dude hits, gives quality professional ABs, can defend, gives effort and take a peek at his WAR. On par with what Cano brings at a fraction of the money or years. I think he'd be a terrific stop-gap until Giminez is ready.
 

Rico444

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#19
Disagree. You don't have to sign Kimbrel. How's about Robertson? Miller? Ottavino? All elite RPs. 3-4 yr deals to any of those 3.
None of them are nearly as good as Diaz. Maybe Andrew Miller a few years ago, but he posted a 4.24 ERA last year. Diaz was absurdly good last year, take a look at his stats and peripherals. He's miles ahead of those guys you named.

Diaz had a great year in 2018. No doubt about that. But CP stats are completely driven by opportunity. M's played soooooo many 1-run games last year. Those insane 2018 stats will not be duplicated in Seattle or New York or anywhere else. He's a great reliever but you can protect your top prospects by signing a free agent instead.
Not sure what CP means but I'm not looking at saves here. His strikeout rate, walk rate, and ground ball rate were all incredible last year.

Cano is 36 and post PED. Steady decline years coming. If you want an old 2B, sign Daniel Murphy or Ben Zobrist or Jed Lowrie. At least you're out of the contract in 2 or 3 years and have a spot for Gimenez in 2020/2021 when he's ready for promotion.
I have no doubt he's not going to be a great player for 5 years. He was still great last year (even above-average defensively!), and I would expect that he continue to be great for next year and still above-average for a few more after that. At $12 million per year, you can live with him being a bench player for the last two years of the deal.

I can see trading Dunn. But cashing in Kelenic for a closer and a washed up 2B (and FIVE!!! years) would be a huge mistake.
Why don't you look up Cano's numbers from 2018, post-PED suspension. Nothing washed up about .303/.374/.471 and above-average defense from 2nd base. You don't have to stretch the truth to make your point. And as for a "closer" your Yankees are paying Aroldis Chapman $86 million to pitch for them; do you think that's an awful deal? Value is value, regardless of the position. Diaz is every bit as good as Aroldis ever was in his prime.
 

8893

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#20
Whelp, they did it. And M’s are reportedly only paying $20 million, which means we are on the hook for $100 million over five years to Cano, or $20 million a year.

Yep, I’d say the Mets got taken. And instantly the problem I have is that Cano’s former agent who sold the bill of goods to the M’s in the first place is the guy who bought it back.

Yes Diaz is great. But he’s a luxury we don’t need when we’re not going to sniff the post season unless the Mets are going to shell out a lot more money (unlikely) to fill a lot more holes.
 
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#21
The way i read it is:

A) Cano for Bruce and Swarzaks contract. Bruce doesn’t have a spot here. He’s not an option at first full time.

B) Diaz for the two prospects. Under control for four years and proven in the majors, I think Kellenic will be a good one but I take the proven young player every time.

I’m fine with it. Nice to see the Mets with some sizzle in the off-season.
 

the Q

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#22
Whelp, they did it. And M’s are reportedly only paying $20 million, which means we are on the hook for $100 million over five years to Cano, or $20 million a year.

Yep, I’d say the Mets got taken. And instantly the problem I have is that Cano’s former agent who sold the bill of goods to the M’s in the first place is the guy who bought it back.

Yes Diaz is great. But he’s a luxury we don’t need when we’re not going to sniff the post season unless the Mets are going to shell out a lot more money (unlikely) to fill a lot more holes.
Don’t forget the Ms also took almost 40 mil in basically dead weight commitments in Bruce and Swarzak. So it’s closer to 50-60m.

I never got why the Mets brought Bruce back to begin with. He never fit the team.
 

the Q

BY Misanthrope
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#23
Guys like kelntek are really hard.

He could be a trout or he could just as easily, if not more so be a Chris Lubanski or Bubba Starling.

If you’re scratching your head asking who those guys are.....exactly.
 

the Q

BY Misanthrope
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#24
Imo the Mets needed to get mallex smith out of this deal.

I think that’s a spot that hurts.
 

Dooley

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#25
Whelp, they did it. And M’s are reportedly only paying $20 million, which means we are on the hook for $100 million over five years to Cano, or $20 million a year.

Yep, I’d say the Mets got taken. And instantly the problem I have is that Cano’s former agent who sold the bill of goods to the M’s in the first place is the guy who bought it back.

Yes Diaz is great. But he’s a luxury we don’t need when we’re not going to sniff the post season unless the Mets are going to shell out a lot more money (unlikely) to fill a lot more holes.
Agree. Get the feeling that Brodie is taking a page out of the degenerate gambler's handbook here and betting on Cano to get back to even. That never works out.

I don't understand why the Mets elected to spend $20M/yr on Cano in the next five years when they have Jacob deGrom entering free agency after this season. Give that money to him. If they can't sign deGrom and the Wilpons hide behind finances as the reason, I think Mets fans will revolt.
 
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