Mercury @ Sun - 9/10/17

[psconn]

Just about nobody thought they would do this well this year. That said, once Taurasi started to whine to the officials, the calls started going against the Sun. It changed the game in the Mercury's favor. Officiating plays too big a role in basketball and there is no easy fix for that. But Taurasi and Griner got star protection and nobody on the Sun got that. They have to learn to pretend to get hit like the other teams do. It's cheesy and I don't like it, but if you don't do it, you get the short end of the stick. Anyway, I love the Sun and they will learn to do what needs to be done to win games like this. They have a great coach and a great core of young players, will probably get Chiney back next year, and maybe even pick someone up in the draft. The future is really bright.

Don't forget Leticia Romero, also.

 

[DaddyChoc]

 

[DishNSwish]

Both games today emphasized the biggest problems with the one and done.

1. You can rest players in the regular season, coast into the playoffs and still have a one game shot to advance

2. Probably more importantly, one player (or two) can win you a single game, but the best team tends to win a series. Look at Washington-NY. Tolliver goes crazy and wins that game. She going to do that again? I'd take Charles in a two of three there.

 

[psconn]

First, Phoenix is probably the better team right now and I'm not trying to place blame for the loss solely on the officials. Second, there were a couple crazy calls that went the Sun's way also, but there is a difference between bad officiating and "star treatment" officiating for Griner and Taurasi.

I tried to find the technical foul totals for players this season and I saw a list from SNY and one from the Washington Post that showed Taurasi with 7 this season. I thought that 7 Techs required a suspension and I don't recall a suspension taking place since she got suspended for attacking Hamby much earlier in the season. I tried to find the specific rule or any WNBA official Tech Foul list without success. Taurasi's misconduct and verbal abuse of the refs for about a full minute in the 2nd Q from about 5:00 to about 4:00 was over the top and the refs were apparently ok with it. I stipulate that this particular rant was precipitated by an uncalled foul on a Taurasi shot... irrelevant. I have seen FAR less T'd up immediately. Here's the rule:

d. A technical foul shall be assessed for unsportsmanlike tactics such as:
(1) Disrespectfully addressing an official.
(2) Physically contacting an official.
(3) Overt actions indicating resentment to a call.
(4) Use of profanity.
(5) A coach entering onto the court without permission of an official.
(6) A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no contact involved.
(7) Taunting.
e. Cursing or blaspheming an official shall not be considered the only cause for imposing technical fouls. Running tirades, continuous criticism or griping may be sufficient cause to assess a technical. Excessive misconduct shall result in ejection from the game.​

• Do the technical totals reset in the post season?
• Was she being "protected" because she is she close to a suspension?
  
• Are the the officials just intimidated by her antics?

Lisa Borders (sitting courtside for this one) must consider both the rule book and the demographic at these games and make a strong statement to the supervisor of officials about this behavior. This behavior is not good for the league and it is steadily getting worse (and not just from Taurasi).

 

[Waquoit]

Ehh, this isn't biddy basketball.

 

[j66kicker]

It's funny that Suns fans want to blame the officiating, or "star treatment" for getting beat. How about holding onto a 17-point lead? How about making some of those 9 missed free throws, or shooting better than 25% on those 16 3-point shots? The refs didn't set picks for Mitchell, Taurasi and Curry to get open for those 3-pointers right in a row at the end of the game. To me it looked like superior ball movement got them open, and then clutch execution on the shots. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like it was the players who decided the game, not the refs.

The "star treatment" I remember Griner getting was being triple-teamed with the ball, getting grabbed and hit while the TV announcers are saying she has the right to her space and it should be a foul on the Suns. Griner holds the ball high to protect it and tries to twist out of the triple team, and the Suns players flop and act like they've been Barncastled, and the refs call an offensive foul on Griner. Then they review it for a possible flagrant, and the replays clearly show it shouldn't have even been a common offensive foul.

 

[Geew1992]

It's funny that Suns fans want to blame the officiating, or "star treatment" for getting beat. How about holding onto a 17-point lead? How about making some of those 9 missed free throws, or shooting better than 25% on those 16 3-point shots? The refs didn't set picks for Mitchell, Taurasi and Curry to get open for those 3-pointers right in a row at the end of the game. To me it looked like superior ball movement got them open, and then clutch execution on the shots. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like it was the players who decided the game, not the refs.

The "star treatment" I remember Griner getting was being triple-teamed with the ball, getting grabbed and hit while the TV announcers are saying she has the right to her space and it should be a foul on the Suns. Griner holds the ball high to protect it and tries to twist out of the triple team, and the Suns players flop and act like they've been Barncastled, and the refs call an offensive foul on Griner. Then they review it for a possible flagrant, and the replays clearly show it shouldn't have even been a common offensive foul.

^^^^Right here. Couldn't agree more!

 

[DishNSwish]

First of all it's Sun. Not Suns. Clearly you aren't a fan of the team, or you would know that.

j66, I was sitting right there on press row. Griner and Taurasi got the star treatment, don't kid yourself. However, they were still the two best players on the court. In a one game series, that happens, they win. But to say Sun fans don't have a right to be frustrated with some of the calls is not fair and correct either.

In fact I tweeted this in the second quarter of the game:

"And the refs, who were doing such a nice job letting them play, have decided to get involved. CT with 5 team fouls, Phoenix, um, one"

When JJ has to skip a possession because Dee elbowed her in the gut and doubled her over that's just wrong. I also saw no offensive fouls on BG that weren't earned. She does throw her elbows around, and she is aggressive...like any good post SHOULD be. The fact she isn't in foul trouble more speaks volumes though. Sometimes you get called, sometimes you don't. I was curious so I looked it up. Since July 1st, BG had ONE game that she had five fouls. At 6'9, and banging in the paint on both ends. Hmmm....

The Mercury made the big plays, led by veterans with experience, while the young Sun players did not make the same. That's what happens sometimes. It was Phoenix's day.

I never read anyone say the refs stole the game or the Mercury didn't win the game. In fact, psconn's post starts with a statement saying the Mercury were the better team and he didn't blame the refs.

 

[EricSD]

Great win for the Mercury. Coming back from 17 points down. I love Dee's game. Not a fan of her "extra curriculars". Still, she is the GOAT - and a lightning rod for those who either love or hate her. Not a lot of in-between with fans' opinions of her.

To me the Sun were the surprise team of the season. Their future is bright.

Last point - I get the 1 game winner takes all for the first round, but after that it should be best 2-3 for the next 2 rounds and the best 3-5 for the finals. Personally I'd prefer to see best 3-5 and then best 4-7 for the finals, but either way, the 1 game winner take all format - I'm not a fan at all.

 

[triaddukefan]

Both games today emphasized the biggest problems with the one and done.



2. Probably more importantly, one player (or two) can win you a single game, but the best team tends to win a series. Look at Washington-NY. Tolliver goes crazy and wins that game. She going to do that again? I'd take Charles in a two of three there.

Yes Tolliver went crazy... But Messemen had a awful game. I'd take Washington in a 2 out of 3 series. They are healthier and more complete now than they were during the season. More talented roster as well.

 

[DishNSwish]

Yes Tolliver went crazy... But Messemen had a awful game. I'd take Washington in a 2 out of 3 series. They are healthier and more complete now than they were during the season. More talented roster as well.

Just wish we could see what would happen....

 

[triaddukefan]

Just wish we could see what would happen....

Look forward to the Mystics-Suns match ups next season. They should be the two best teams in the east. Hopefully Hill and Chiney O will be back healthy.

 

[j66kicker]

First of all it's Sun. Not Suns. Clearly you aren't a fan of the team, or you would know that.

j66, I was sitting right there on press row. Griner and Taurasi got the star treatment, don't kid yourself. However, they were still the two best players on the court. In a one game series, that happens, they win. But to say Sun fans don't have a right to be frustrated with some of the calls is not fair and correct either.

In fact I tweeted this in the second quarter of the game:

"And the refs, who were doing such a nice job letting them play, have decided to get involved. CT with 5 team fouls, Phoenix, um, one"

When JJ has to skip a possession because Dee elbowed her in the gut and doubled her over that's just wrong. I also saw no offensive fouls on BG that weren't earned. She does throw her elbows around, and she is aggressive...like any good post SHOULD be. The fact she isn't in foul trouble more speaks volumes though. Sometimes you get called, sometimes you don't. I was curious so I looked it up. Since July 1st, BG had ONE game that she had five fouls. At 6'9, and banging in the paint on both ends. Hmmm....

The Mercury made the big plays, led by veterans with experience, while the young Sun players did not make the same. That's what happens sometimes. It was Phoenix's day.

I never read anyone say the refs stole the game or the Mercury didn't win the game. In fact, psconn's post starts with a statement saying the Mercury were the better team and he didn't blame the refs.

My apologies for saying "Suns". You are correct - I am not a fan. Not "NOT a fan" in a negative sense. It's just that I live in Phoenix and my favorite UConn player of all time plays for the Mercury, so yesterday I guess I was not a fan.

Actually I used to be more of a fan when I lived in CT, and when they intentionally put UConn stars on the team. I have been sort of following the Sun vicariously, mostly through psconn's BY posts. I'm glad they have a good coach now, wish them all the best and hope they develop into a serious contender next year when Chiney is back.

 

[Waquoit]

First of all it's Sun. Not Suns. Clearly you aren't a fan of the team, or you would know that.

Hence the unbiased assessment.

 

[DishNSwish]

Hence the unbiased assessment.

Ironically I don't find it unbiased at all. Let me ask you Waquoit, what would you think if A'ja Wilson elbowed Gabby Williams in the gut, so that Williams couldn't make it up the court?

 

[Waquoit]

Ironically I don't find it unbiased at all. Let me ask you Waquoit, what would you think if A'ja Wilson elbowed Gabby Williams in the gut, so that Williams couldn't make it up the court?

I would say that the WNBA is a league where they play for pay. Put on your big girl shorts and get back in the game.

 

[DishNSwish]

I would say that the WNBA is a league where they play for pay. Put on your big girl shorts and get back in the game.

So cheap shots and dirty play are allowed. Okay, I'll just step away then. Good discussion though.

 

[Waquoit]

So cheap shots and dirty play are allowed. Okay, I'll just step away then. Good discussion though.

It's pro sports, stuff happens. And I have a feeling that if your scenario played out in the WNBA, Gabby would find a way to make sure it didn't happen again. Honestly, your comment reeks of "my girls".

 

[DishNSwish]

It's pro sports, stuff happens. And I have a feeling that if your scenario played out in the WNBA, Gabby would find a way to make sure it didn't happen again. Honestly, your comment reeks of "my girls".

How? I said over and over the better team won. I just said the dirty play is something that fans have a right to be irritated with. I'd say that about the NBA, NCAA, or whatever league. I don't like to see superstar treatment, period.

 

[Waquoit]

How? I said over and over the better team won. I just said the dirty play is something that fans have a right to be irritated with. I'd say that about the NBA, NCAA, or whatever league. I don't like to see superstar treatment, period.

I hate the superstar treatment myself but it's a fact of life, unfortunately. I made the the "my girls" crack because an elbow to the gut isn't all that heinous, it happens. It's elbows to the head and face that are the worst.

 

[PhanTom]

I wish!! They were actually 4-16 from 3.

Seven players took the 16 shots, and each player missed at least one shot!

 

[PhanTom]

(6) A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no contact involved.

How about the elbow to the throat that Griner threw late in the game being ignored by the "Three Blind Mice"?

After Coach Miller got the attention of the refs, they did review the play, but I wonder if they were limited to reviewing whether it was a Flagrent 2. Clearly it was a deliberate thrown elbow that may not have made much contact, but it was certainly beyond the extent of a normal, legal basketball play as far as the elbow.
​

Lisa Borders (sitting courtside for this one) must consider both the rule book and the demographic at these games and make a strong statement to the supervisor of officials about this behavior. This behavior is not good for the league and it is steadily getting worse (and not just from Taurasi.

I believe all three officials should be banned for the rest of the playoffs for not issuing a Technical to Diana, just for that part of her full court rant at the woman official as play went back down court, and DT was throwing a fit along with her normal F Bombs. I believe the ref told her to shut up, and of course she did not.

 

[PhanTom]

I hate the superstar treatment myself but it's a fact of life, unfortunately. I made the the "my girls" crack because an elbow to the gut isn't all that heinous, it happens. It's elbows to the head and face that are the worst.

How about the neck, that's what Griner did late in the game, but the refs had no guts to 1. Make the call in the first place, and then after review, I know they could have ruled flagrant, which I don't think it was, but since there had been no call by any of the refs, I don't think they could have issued a flagrant 1 at that point. It clearly was a thrown elbow, but may not have enough contact for them to rule flagrant, without a call being made.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

how unsportsmanlike DT is

She acts like all the guys ... you know, the ones with the huge contracts and vast followings. Get over it.

 

[Geew1992]

The officiating has been horrific all year. And this game was no exception but to say the refs were bias to the mercury....nope....they were crappy to both teams!!

 

[psconn]

David saved me a lot of typing.

My bottom line is that there's a rule book. It says what it says for a reason, I assume. Enforce it or change it. Don't have it apply to some but not others. These rules I cited were blatantly disregarded by Taurasi and others. In no way is this a gray area.

Does a league that talks a lot about role modeling for young girls see Taurasi's behavior as supportive of that goal?

Lisa Borders has to decide what kind of league she wants. If profanity-laced tirades against the game officials is an image she supports, change or delete the rule and own the decision.

 

[psconn]

She acts like all the guys ... you know, the ones with the huge contracts and vast followings. Get over it.

First of all, no. "All the guys" don't act like that. Are you suggesting that verbally abusing game officials over calls enhances the marketability of the player or the prestige of the league?

 

[psconn]

It's funny that Suns fans want to blame the officiating, or "star treatment" for getting beat. How about holding onto a 17-point lead? How about making some of those 9 missed free throws, or shooting better than 25% on those 16 3-point shots? The refs didn't set picks for Mitchell, Taurasi and Curry to get open for those 3-pointers right in a row at the end of the game. To me it looked like superior ball movement got them open, and then clutch execution on the shots. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like it was the players who decided the game, not the refs.

The "star treatment" I remember Griner getting was being triple-teamed with the ball, getting grabbed and hit while the TV announcers are saying she has the right to her space and it should be a foul on the Suns. Griner holds the ball high to protect it and tries to twist out of the triple team, and the Suns players flop and act like they've been Barncastled, and the refs call an offensive foul on Griner. Then they review it for a possible flagrant, and the replays clearly show it shouldn't have even been a common offensive foul.

Defensive players have a right to their established position and cannot be displaced by the offensive player. The defensive player does not have to yield her position to the player "twisting" out of the trap.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

First of all, no. "All the guys" don't act like that. Are you suggesting that verbally abusing game officials over calls enhances the marketability of the player or the prestige of the league?

 

[j66kicker]

David saved me a lot of typing.

My bottom line is that there's a rule book. It says what it says for a reason, I assume. Enforce it or change it. Don't have it apply to some but not others. These rules I cited were blatantly disregarded by Taurasi and others. In no way is this a gray area.

Does a league that talks a lot about role modeling for young girls see Taurasi's behavior as supportive of that goal?

Lisa Borders has to decide what kind of league she wants. If profanity-laced tirades against the game officials is an image she supports, change or delete the rule and own the decision.

Yup. The same hypocritical league that lets one of these teams play in a freakin' casino (which the young girls don't know about??), and the other team plays in an arena named after a casino, and wears the name of the casino on the fronts of their jerseys. The NBA got over the role modeling thing 20 years ago. See Charles Barkley: