Memphis proposing lucrative offer to join Big 12, but it lacks support from conference leadership: Sources

[ZooCougar]

please elaborate on this. schools go to the more attractive offer.
There is nothing to indicate that a needy ACC that just lost its top brands, would lock in a media deal that $$$peaks enough to the big 12 schools that may defect.

as much of a "mess" as the big 12 may be (which i don't see either but w/e), at the end of the day this is just about money. Where would the money come from to make ANYONE from Big12 go to the ACC...

My theory is that the ACC knows about UNC and they have WVU lined up.

There is also the Utah to the B1G noise.

 

[superjohn]

please elaborate on this. schools go to the more attractive offer.
There is nothing to indicate that a needy ACC that just lost its top brands, would lock in a media deal that $$$peaks enough to the big 12 schools that may defect.

as much of a "mess" as the big 12 may be (which i don't see either but w/e), at the end of the day this is just about money. Where would the money come from to make ANYONE from Big12 go to the ACC...

The Big 12 and ACC both suck. We're headed to 2 power football conferences (think NFC and AFC) we're pretty much already there.

 

[Hoophound]

Since the WVU to the ACC rumors have started popping back up, would we get called up with WVU or would the ACC grab Cincy or UCF instead?

I have a WVU friend that always says we will end up with them in the ACC in the end and that the ACC will pretty much be the old Big East plus Wake and maybe NC St and Duke. I like the idea, mostly because meaningful old rivalries may help to rejuvenate schools like Cuse and BC.

 

[ZooCougar]

Since the WVU to the ACC rumors have started popping back up, would we get called up with WVU or would the ACC grab Cincy or UCF instead?

I have a WVU friend that always says we will end up with them in take ACC in the end and that the ACC will pretty much be the old Big East plus Wake and Maybe NC St and Duke. I like the idea, mostly because meaningful old rivalries may help to rejuvenate schools like Cuse and BC.

Rule 1

 

[CL82]

Since the WVU to the ACC rumors have started popping back up

Those rumors are entirely derivative of the lunatic, WVU posters and commentators. Their mindset is best summed up by Jim Carrey:

 

[Hoophound]

Those rumors are entirely derivative of the lunatic, WVU posters and commentators. Their mindset is best summed up by Jim Carrey:

I don’t think WVU fans care that much. They seem fairly content in the B12.

Ultimately, 2030 is reckoning day for us. My hope is that we end up back in a Big East reunion conference with Duke and a few others added to bolster basketball. It doesn’t seem like there is much hope of anything else. For now, I’m praying for shockingly good football from our little program and the development of a cult following that helps us down the road.

 

[Jetskies]

The Big 12 and ACC both suck. We're headed to 2 power football conferences (think NFC and AFC) we're pretty much already there.

mmmm so basically b12 and acc is a waiting room until the finances/regulatory conditions are ready, to make the "final" decision on who gets to come up to the AFC/NFC? I think when it's all said and done and the final 2 conferences stand, it cannot be without the top ACC brands (clem/fsu/miami) and probably a few of those big 12 schools too

 

[WrenchFan69]

Since the WVU to the ACC rumors have started popping back up, would we get called up with WVU or would the ACC grab Cincy or UCF instead?

It won't be us lol

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

They will not.

Then you've got yourself convinced the middle and bottom of the ACC is more valuable than the Big12, which is false. Look at the top-heavy ACC and you'll see that the top 4 schools bring about 35% of the ACC eyeballs; this will only get more lopsided with the ACC revenue sharing scheme. Again, if the top 4-6 (maybe just 4) leave, ESPN will reduce the ACC payout drastically and so the Big12 will be able to eat ACC leftovers, not the other way around.

 

[uconnyankee]

If AcC is raided but Cal and Stanford stay, I could see AcC taking top 4 from PAC (Boise, WSU, OSU and SDSU). That plus SMU is a strong western wing.

Assuming who is left on east coast, UConn and maybe USF or Tulane.
That would likely keep ACC in top 4 and again depending on who is left, maybe Top 3.

 

[UConnJim]

I think some key facts are being ignored.

First, the ACC's GORs are dead as the financial penalty to leave the ACC with your media rights has been defined. The exit fee is $165 million today and declines to $75 million in 2030/2031. Second, if you analyze the current ACC vs Big 12 football TV ratings, the Big 12 comes out on top, although the income of viewers could be higher in the ACC than the Big 12. You take away the top ACC media schools and the ACC is looking at a media value less than the Big 12 in the future. Third, the ACC has the schools that the Big 10 and SEC would want, the Big 12 does not. That means the ACC is less stable than the Big 12. Fourth, the Big 12 has schools in 5 of the top 10 growing states in the US: Utah, Texas, Colorado, Florida, and Arizona which is attractive to media buyers. Finally, the Big 12 is a better basketball conference top to bottom than the ACC.

 

[Kolumbo]

At least Memphis is trying but reacted 4 times

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/2025/07/22/memphis-athletics-big-12-conference-realignment-pac-12-acc-ed-scott/85315072007/

"There has been significant progress in the past decade-plus. The football team has gone to a bowl game every season since 2014 and is coming off back-to-back double-digit win seasons. A $226 million renovation of Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium is on track to be completed before the 2026 football season. And in 2021, the university was given R1 status by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education, meaning it is now in the top tier of research institutions in the country."

 

[billybud]

My theory is that the ACC knows about UNC and they have WVU lined up.

There is also the Utah to the B1G noise.

There are some interesting pieces in the ACC Settlement Agreement with FSU-Clemson and the ESPN-ACC Media Extension Agreement ( “Extension option and amendment to the multi-media agreement,”

1...FSU-Clemson have absolute veto rights over any conference additions. No schools can be added without Clemson's or FSU’s express permission. 1.6.2 lists all the things that require a vote. Amending a media agreement, adding new members etc FSU/Clemson must vote affirmatively for any vote to pass (a huge concession). UNC conspicuously does not have those rights.

2...The provision...“If six members withdraw in the same single sport ….. in a single sport league, conference, or other association.”. and the reduction of the Exit Fee..seems to be pointing towards the "if" of a possible future realignment of football outside of the current conference structure. Would apply if a single sport basketball league was created. There had to be a reason for that provision being insisted upon.

3...As part of the settlement the ACC asked for a blanket release/indemnification against all its current and former officers and employees...Might be standard language, but my belief is that shenanigans were discovered and thus, as predicted, as soon as the judge in Florida ordered the proceeding of Discovery...settlement.

4..And a final thought...the conference having to cede such power to FSU/Clemson might make them amenable to shoo these two on their way at the first opportunity.

I think that the dynamics for adding WVU to the ACC have changed., There seems to be no one pulling for WVU outside of possible local rivals Pitt and VT....I would expect opposition from some of the more academic minded Presidents.

 

[CL82]

the ACC has the schools that the Big 10 and SEC would want, the Big 12 does not. That means the ACC is less stable than the Big 12

The Big 12 Conference
Our Undesirability is our Strength​

 

[huskymedic]

Shortcut <<

 

[ZooCougar]

Well laid out - some here over-indexing on old money like the stodgy New Englanders they are.

The Big 12 TV ratings are schewed by Deion Sanders. Once he is gone that conference is officially a sea of nothingburgers. But great job nailing down the Lubbock DMA.

 

[freescooter]

People will be shocked when the powers that be consider a conference with the second best programs in Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Georgia, etc, is more valuable than a conference with two schools in Utah and Kansas and the second best program in Oklahoma.

It would take one phone call from from the 704 area code to the West Virginia athletic office to start an absolute stampede.

A few years ago there was talk of Texas (and little brother Oklahoma maybe tagging along) going to the PAC, then they were going to the B10. Neither materialized. They ended in the SEC over the objection of A&M apparently. I have to believe that the SEC and the Big 10 have some type of non-aggression pact. And seriously, Georgia Tech to the Big 10 ? They are not just the 2nd team in Georgia. They are a distant #2.

 

[RuffRuff]

thx ruff,

do u think ALL of the ACC (and i guess Big12) will get into this "final 2" league i made up? or will there indeed be a day of reckoning where the ship sails and some former P4 schools are left overboard, abandoned with no other course but to give up and join the ranks of (sadly) UConn, Tulane, Memphis, ECU, USF, and the other "might have beens"?

thinking of schools with minimal football marketing power, like

• Wake Forest
• Georgia Tech
• Cincy (u will never convince me they're a legit P4 school)
• UCF (u will never convince...)
• Houston (u will never convince...)
• SMU
• BC
• Syracuse
• and maybe a few others

If wagering a guess based on a lot of info that's already out there, including schools already expressing their interest in parting ways:

B10 (currently at 18, likely max out at 24)
UNC/UVa - B10 locks. ND once/if they fold. These would be automatics - fits are too good.
GATech/Miami - B10 possibilities
Duke - B10 maybe to fill out the 24
Then there are also Cal & Stanford still out there, would seem a really odd long term fit in the ACC but not sure their FB brands are strong enough for the B10.

SEC (currently at 16, likely max out at 18-20)
Clemson/FSU - SEC locks. Some arguing that SEC already has this footprint, but Florida is a massive growing state & hotbed you want to own. SEC has two schools in multiple states (Bama, Miss), and it creates great inter-conference rivalries (check Bama/Auburn for how meaningful those are). Clemson is a top 10-12 football brand, why wouldn't you want them? These a high value/brand programs.

Va Tech/NC St - SEC maybes. Would give them presence in new markets & round out.

B12 (currently 16, likely max out at 18-20)
Pitt/Ville - would pod out nicely with Cinci & WV
NC St/VA Tech - if the SEC doesn't take

Leaves Wake, Cuse, BC and SMU. Not a lot of value there (separating Cal/Stanford out for now). Cuse is in a dead part of the country and loses it's identity not being connected to NYC. Wake is the small baby brother of the triangle and lucky to even be in a P4. BC is on it's Catholic island and seemingly abandoned any desire to be good athletically. Uconn gives the B12 another state flagship and an anchor in the NYC area. Maybe we go over with SMU. We'll be in a pool of leftovers the B12 can pick through alongside the networks.

Best guess conservatively is that ACC loses 4 once GOR is up. FSU & Clemson already have one foot out the door. Once they're gone, the ACC is firmly a second rate football conference. UNC & UVa are foundational universities for the ACC, so if they follow suit to the B10, then it totally destabilizes. UNC has already publicly expressed their interest. You lose easily your top 2 football brands and your 2 original staple flagships, you're officially fractured at the top of the football and political hierarchy that is the ACC. What it will take for ND to fold will be interesting.

The SEC & B10 are not stopping and they have all the power at this point, and the ACC has the goods they want. Take those 4 schools, and anyone left behind is going to be running for their lives & easy pickens.

Best bet for us is that NCSt & Va Tech go to the SEC and leave a couple spots open in the B12. Unlike the last go, Uconn should have higher perceived forward value than BC & Cuse, even though we are valued less today (mainly because of conference affiliation).

Yormark is way smarter than anyone over in the ACC. He's perfectly happy with the second raters that the P2 doesn't want and will brand the heck out of it and differentiate creatively, as he's already shown. Meanwhile the ACC is fractured, reactive, resting on it's laurels and adding oddballs that make no long term sense. As is the B12 has 5 flagships to the ACC's 3 (UVa, UNC and Cal).

We keep talking about the P2 taking over, but there are too many schools out there to fall into 2 conferences, so it's likely to land on P2 +1, with the P2 running the show, and likely breaking away from the NCAA. Have to think an entrepreneurial guy like Yormark is light years ahead in that thought process versus a consensus driven lifelong AD type like Phillips.

 

[UConnJim]

The Big 12 TV ratings are schewed by Deion Sanders. Once he is gone that conference is officially a sea of nothingburgers. But great job nailing down the Lubbock DMA.

You clearly haven't analyzed the viewership data. For example, here are the championship ratings:

Big 12 Arizona St./Iowa St. 6.9 million viewers

ACC: Clemson/SMU 5.98 million

Yes, Colorado boosted the Big 12 viewership numbers to well above the ACC viewership numbers last year, but the Big 12 schools provide very solid viewership numbers especially compared to the ACC schools that might get left behind in conference expansion.

 

[UConnDan97]

Nothing shocks me anymore. I can believe an argument that the Big12 is better and more stable than the ACC. I can believe the opposite argument as well.

The reason for this isn't based on what the ratings are, or what the locations / states are, or which networks are supporting them. The reason for my inability to calculate their relative value is due to the fact that I have ZERO idea what the intentions of the B1G and SEC are. If one of them wants to feed, they will feed off of whichever they choose.

The NCAA is now an entity where only two conferences matter, and the rest of the conferences feed off of the remainder of the scraps...

 

[KryHavok]

Nothing shocks me anymore. I can believe an argument that the Big12 is better and more stable than the ACC. I can believe the opposite argument as well.

Yeah, I can see how one can come to either conclusion.

From a football perspective, the all cretins crew has a higher ceiling with Clemson and FSU (if they can recapture their long lost mojo), but from top to bottom the Big12 seem to be more evenly balanced. From a basketball perspective, again the all cretins crew have a higher ceiling with Puke and UNC, but the Big12 can be argued to have a more balanced setup top to bottom cough bearcats suck cough. So I'd argue the B12 would be good and stable for us, but of course...they don't want us while the all cretins would be much better for us (short term?), but they are avoiding us like we have leprosy.

 

[ZooCougar]

You clearly haven't analyzed the viewership data. For example, here are the championship ratings:

Big 12 Arizona St./Iowa St. 6.9 million viewers

ACC: Clemson/SMU 5.98 million

Yes, Colorado boosted the Big 12 viewership numbers to well above the ACC viewership numbers last year, but the Big 12 schools provide very solid viewership numbers especially compared to the ACC schools that might get left behind in conference expansion.

I don’t need to. Sample size of one year is dumb.

One is on the coast. The other is in a cornfield.

 

[ZooCougar]

Nothing shocks me anymore. I can believe an argument that the Big12 is better and more stable than the ACC. I can believe the opposite argument as well.

The reason for this isn't based on what the ratings are, or what the locations / states are, or which networks are supporting them. The reason for my inability to calculate their relative value is due to the fact that I have ZERO idea what the intentions of the B1G and SEC are. If one of them wants to feed, they will feed off of whichever they choose.

The NCAA is now an entity where only two conferences matter, and the rest of the conferences feed off of the remainder of the scraps...

It’s pretty clear. A super league with 20+ teams in the B1G and SEC. Probably 48 altogether.

That’s what they want; the more resources ij the hands of few institutions the better.

After that happens who is better outside of the Suoer League is kind of irrelevant.

 

[buddy]

If wagering a guess based on a lot of info that's already out there, including schools already expressing their interest in parting ways:

B10 (currently at 18, likely max out at 24)
UNC/UVa - B10 locks. ND once/if they fold. These would be automatics - fits are too good.
GATech/Miami - B10 possibilities
Duke - B10 maybe to fill out the 24
Then there are also Cal & Stanford still out there, would seem a really odd long term fit in the ACC but not sure their FB brands are strong enough for the B10.

SEC (currently at 16, likely max out at 18-20)
Clemson/FSU - SEC locks. Some arguing that SEC already has this footprint, but Florida is a massive growing state & hotbed you want to own. SEC has two schools in multiple states (Bama, Miss), and it creates great inter-conference rivalries (check Bama/Auburn for how meaningful those are). Clemson is a top 10-12 football brand, why wouldn't you want them? These a high value/brand programs.

Va Tech/NC St - SEC maybes. Would give them presence in new markets & round out.

B12 (currently 16, likely max out at 18-20)
Pitt/Ville - would pod out nicely with Cinci & WV
NC St/VA Tech - if the SEC doesn't take

Leaves Wake, Cuse, BC and SMU. Not a lot of value there (separating Cal/Stanford out for now). Cuse is in a dead part of the country and loses it's identity not being connected to NYC. Wake is the small baby brother of the triangle and lucky to even be in a P4. BC is on it's Catholic island and seemingly abandoned any desire to be good athletically. Uconn gives the B12 another state flagship and an anchor in the NYC area. Maybe we go over with SMU. We'll be in a pool of leftovers the B12 can pick through alongside the networks.

Best guess conservatively is that ACC loses 4 once GOR is up. FSU & Clemson already have one foot out the door. Once they're gone, the ACC is firmly a second rate football conference. UNC & UVa are foundational universities for the ACC, so if they follow suit to the B10, then it totally destabilizes. UNC has already publicly expressed their interest. You lose easily your top 2 football brands and your 2 original staple flagships, you're officially fractured at the top of the football and political hierarchy that is the ACC. What it will take for ND to fold will be interesting.

The SEC & B10 are not stopping and they have all the power at this point, and the ACC has the goods they want. Take those 4 schools, and anyone left behind is going to be running for their lives & easy pickens.

Best bet for us is that NCSt & Va Tech go to the SEC and leave a couple spots open in the B12. Unlike the last go, Uconn should have higher perceived forward value than BC & Cuse, even though we are valued less today (mainly because of conference affiliation).

Yormark is way smarter than anyone over in the ACC. He's perfectly happy with the second raters that the P2 doesn't want and will brand the heck out of it and differentiate creatively, as he's already shown. Meanwhile the ACC is fractured, reactive, resting on it's laurels and adding oddballs that make no long term sense. As is the B12 has 5 flagships to the ACC's 3 (UVa, UNC and Cal).

We keep talking about the P2 taking over, but there are too many schools out there to fall into 2 conferences, so it's likely to land on P2 +1, with the P2 running the show, and likely breaking away from the NCAA. Have to think an entrepreneurial guy like Yormark is light years ahead in that thought process versus a consensus driven lifelong AD type like Phillips.

I agree with most. I don't see Duke to the Big 10. Their football is Rutgers/Northwestern like. They would ruin basketball for the likes of Michigan and MSU. If NC goes there, there will be no need TV wise. NC State and Va Tech to SEC. Neither of them bring anything to that table.

 

[Jetskies]

i know i keep saying this, apologies, but - i really am absolutely rotting at the fact that rutgers.... rutgers - is safe in the big 10. They do not deserve the security they have or the brand power they are able to claim as their own, by wearing that logo on their field and jerseys. if we don't deserve it, with our overall school profile and athletic accomplishment, they DEF don't deserve it. such a crock.

I know about the nyc stuff and cable box market from ages past. I know the story, don't worry about filling me in. I'm just venting.