Memphis looks to host new conference MBB/WBB Tourney

[Husky25]

New York would be a terrible idea. This is not a northeastern conference, and Barclays would be a ghost town, which would be juxtaposed against a full MSG from the C7's tournament going on simultaneously and make the league look weak. We have to play the tournament in whatever arena can sell the most tickets. Memphis is not terrible, nor is Orlando.

Yeah, that Seton Hall/Depaul semi final matchup will have 34th Street rockin'.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm still not buying that the C7 are going to pack MSG. How many of the remaining teams sent tons of fans? Will it be more filled than the NBE in Brooklyn, probably, but I don't think, for a second, that it will be packed or have the sam atmosphere that it used to have when the REAL Big East existed.

It will depend on the price of tickets. The C-7 will absolutely not be able to pack MSG at the same pricing structure that the Big East previously did. Too many fans of UConn, ND, Syracuse, Pitt, etc. will not be interested.

On the other hand, at a low enough price point, there are more than enough fans of college hoops in general and its members in particular to pack the place. It will be interesting to see if the Presidents strangle the goose chasing more dollars, or nurture it and let it grow. Because the long term key to success for the conference is to make sure the Garden is packed.

 

[businesslawyer]

Philadelphia would be a good option for me

I'm thinking the tournament may rotate, and I wouldn't want it in Hartford. The arena is pathetic

maybe the Mohegan Sun would be a good option for us, or Barclay's in Brooklyn

Given the spread out geography of the members, it almost has to rotate. Memphis, Connecticut, Houston, Philly, Cincy, Orlando and Tampa would all be fine. Whether the tournament should be played in NBA arenas or smaller venues remains to be seen. It may be better off in 8 to 10k seat venues that you can fill versus larger NBA arenas full of empty seats.

 

[Husky25]

It will depend on the price of tickets. The C-7 will absolutely not be able to pack MSG at the same pricing structure that the Big East previously did. Too many fans of UConn, ND, Syracuse, Pitt, etc. will not be interested.

On the other hand, at a low enough price point, there are more than enough fans of college hoops in general and its members in particular to pack the place. It will be interesting to see if the Presidents strangle the goose chasing more dollars, or nurture it and let it grow. Because the long term key to success for the conference is to make sure the Garden is packed.

Do you really have a doubt which way that will go? They will try and keep the price points where they are (or not far off) merely because they think the Big East name has some cache...and it will for a year, two, or three. The C-7 is short sighted in my view and their membership will relegate the conference to mid major status on par with the Horizon League. Butler has jumped twice in three years and they will ultimately end up where they were in the first place.

 

[businesslawyer]

Do you really have a doubt which way that will go? They will try and keep the price points where they are (or not far off) merely because they think the Big East name has some cache...and it will for a year, two, or three. The C-7 is short sighted in my view and their membership will relegate the conference to mid major status on par with the Horizon League. Butler has jumped twice in three years and they will ultimately end up where they were in the first place.

Do I really have doubt as to whether they will make wise choices or not? Why shouldn't they. I don't think they were dumb holding hands with football schools until now, and I don't think they are dumb for leaving now. So why in the world should I assume they will be dumb going forward?

The C-7 tourney will not be the old Big East Tourney. But it will be good enough that you can fill up the arena if you price it right. And, since the key to this conference will be to appeal to kids wanting to play in the tourney at the Garden, with excitement, they need to pack it. High school athletes don't care what people are paying to see players play -- they just want the atmosphere.

 

[Husky25]

Do I really have doubt as to whether they will make wise choices or not? Why shouldn't they. I don't think they were dumb holding hands with football schools until now, and I don't think they are dumb for leaving now. So why in the world should I assume they will be dumb going forward?

The C-7 tourney will not be the old Big East Tourney. But it will be good enough that you can fill up the arena if you price it right. And, since the key to this conference will be to appeal to kids wanting to play in the tourney at the Garden, with excitement, they need to pack it. High school athletes don't care what people are paying to see players play -- they just want the atmosphere.

And that's where I think we diverge. I don't think they will price it right. I think they will over price it because of the Big East name. Not only because they have to capitalize on what little cache it has left, but because they basically paid $100 million to take it.

The BE football schools were the marque' basketball schools as well and if the C-7 couldn't elevate their programs playing against the big dogs like Pitt, Cuse, UConn, and Louisville, then how are they going to generate excitement playing each other? St. Johns is no draw, neither is SHU, nor PC. I fear that Gtown and maybe Nova are in for a real tough go of it over the next decade in this conference.

 

[upstater]

MSG sets the rate.
The BE pays the rate.
If the BE wants debt, they will set the price point low. It's not a matter of making money. It's a matter of losing money.

The BE as it was lost money on the MSG. I imagine the new BE is in no position to lower ticket prices.

MSG just turned down the ACC because it wasn't willing to go to MSG once every 2 years.

 

[Jerry1714]

And that's where I think we diverge. I don't think they will price it right. I think they will over price it because of the Big East name. Not only because they have to capitalize on what little cache it has left, but because they basically paid $100 million to take it.

The BE football schools were the marque' basketball schools as well and if the C-7 couldn't elevate their programs playing against the big dogs like Pitt, Cuse, UConn, and Louisville, then how are they going to generate excitement playing each other? St. Johns is no draw, neither is SHU, nor PC. I fear that Gtown and maybe Nova are in for a real tough go of it over the next decade in this conference.

I think the price of tickets will have some say, not a huge amount though unless were talking a big time price decrease. Most of these fans the main expense is traveling to NYC and staying there, not the game tickets. So you are going to need these schools to have enough fans to shell out the dough to get and stay in NYC for a weekend. Pitt, Uconn and Cuse were the biggest draws not just because of the caliber of ball being played but all because of the close proximity of the schools and the fan bases willing to travel the short distance.

I think attendance wise they are going to really need Marquette to stay a top 20 program, because when they are good they show up. Gtown is good, not great at filling up the garden. St. John's is what it is, not very good.

PC, Hall, and Depaul's presence is laughable.

The A10 is a similar league to the new BE and they get an average of 6k fans a game and that is with 3 Philly schools just down the road.

Can Xavier and Butler travel? I do not know, but MSG better hope so.

 

[businesslawyer]

The BE as it was lost money on the MSG. I imagine the new BE is in no position to lower ticket prices.

.

I think that is dead, spot on wrong. The C-7 schools will be making far more money from Fox than they did in the Big East. If they want to invest in a loss-leader at MSG to build their brand, they can do so.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think the price of tickets will have some say, not a huge amount though unless were talking a big time price decrease. Most of these fans the main expense is traveling to NYC and staying there, not the game tickets. So you are going to need these schools to have enough fans to shell out the dough to get and stay in NYC for a weekend. Pitt, Uconn and Cuse were the biggest draws not just because of the caliber of ball being played but all because of the close proximity of the schools and the fan bases willing to travel the short distance.

I think attendance wise they are going to really need Marquette to stay a top 20 program, because when they are good they show up. Gtown is good, not great at filling up the garden. St. John's is what it is, not very good.

PC, Hall, and Depaul's presence is laughable.

The A10 is a similar league to the new BE and they get an average of 6k fans a game and that is with 3 Philly schools just down the road.

Can Xavier and Butler travel? I do not know, but MSG better hope so.

FWIW, MSG does not set the prices or profit from ticket sales. MSG rents out the entire building for the length of the tourney, and the conference does with it as it wants. The Big East Tourney is the only event at the Garden that MSG employees can't go to and luxury box owners don't have the right to use their box for.

I agree on the point above that, for out of town guests, ticket prices are not driving the bus. But above the level where donors sit, sell the tickets cheap and fill the arena with people in metro New York who will shell out $25 to fill the top level seats, but would never dream of paying a scalper $100 currently.

 

[upstater]

I think that is dead, spot on wrong. The C-7 schools will be making far more money from Fox than they did in the Big East. If they want to invest in a loss-leader at MSG to build their brand, they can do so.

$1m more in TV rights, but then you're forgetting the split from $22-25m in NCAA tourney credits per year. Right now that's based on 9-10 teams going with 3 or 4 advancing to the second weekend, 1 to the final weekend. This new league will be lucky to get more than 4, and how many will advance? I see their NCAA credit take dropping to the $8-10m range, or $1m per year. The BE was shelling out $1.7m per year. That gives them $300k more. Are they going to eat that amount in tourney tix? I doubt it.

I've been to the BE many times, and yet I can't remember what the face price is on a ticket. If it was $50, and they now charge $20, that's $30 per ticket less per session. 4 teams per session means about 4.5k tix each, or a loss of $1.35m less per team per session. As you go to the semifinals, you raise the tix to say $40, and only lose $450k per team, and none for the final.

I can't see them eating that amount.

Besides my original point was that MSG rents out the facility--the teams sell the tix.

 

[huskyjawz]

FWIW, MSG does not set the prices or profit from ticket sales. MSG rents out the entire building for the length of the tourney, and the conference does with it as it wants. The Big East Tourney is the only event at the Garden that MSG employees can't go to and luxury box owners don't have the right to use their box for.

I agree on the point above that, for out of town guests, ticket prices are not driving the bus. But above the level where donors sit, sell the tickets cheap and fill the arena with people in metro New York who will shell out $25 to fill the top level seats, but would never dream of paying a scalper $100 currently.

Luxury box owners most certainly have use of their boxes.

 

[J187Money]

Luxury box owners most certainly have use of their boxes.

They do. But I'm not sure if they have to pay separately for the BET or not. I can find out.

(Yes. Automatically. Not an add on)

 

[mattp]

Now with the disperse geographic range of most of the conferences that benefit no longer is available. My thought is the only viable options are 1) rotate the tournament venues which may be fair, but not the most economically beneficial option or 2) contract with a site that people wouldn't mind vacationing to such as FL (beaches, Disney, etc,) or NYC (Manhattan or Brooklyn, it's still the Big Apple). The second option would also allow for more continuity and could be modified by doing one year Fl, the next year NYC.

This is what pisses me off most, and it's the reason i wish we were able to keep playing bball with the C7. NYC was an easy day trip. Even if they play the tournament in a "desirable" location like Orlando, there's no way I'm going there every year for a week for a bball tournament. It goes from an annual trip to a once every 5 year trip, and I don't think there's enough UCF/USF fans to annually pack a location in Orlando. MSG was an easy train ride away from just about the entire BE. The magic is gone and it's gone because schools are bickering over pennies that they'll just waste in a never ending arms race.

 

[mattp]

Yes, FedEx is at the end of Beale Street. All bars and restaurants are in immediate walking distance. As someone who lived in Memphis for 5 years and lived and grew up in Hartford, Memphis blows Hartford outta the water when it comes to food, bars and entertainment.

Peabody, Doubletree and Madison are all within walking distance and are all very good hotels. Madison is great.

I can't believe anyone would complain about Memphis as a destination. I went there for New Year's once and it is hands down the most fun city I've ever been too. If you're there for the week and we get knocked out early you can spend a day at the Casino Riverboats in Tunica which is only an hour away.

 

[upstater]

One thing here about Barclay's, MSG and the ACC.

When/if the ACC becomes a big mess, and when/if Uconn gets an invite, I'm not going to lament the loss of UNC or Miami or FSU, etc.

I'll be looking forward to a northeast dominated conference.

And what the hell will MSG be thinking as it hosts a conference of small Catholic schools from the Midwest?

What then?

In 5 years, we might find ourselves playing in the annual ACC tourney at MSG in the best college basketball conference in America with football no worse than what we had 5 years ago.