McQueary out for Nebraska game

[jdb50]

After the 2002 incident Sandusky was still involved with the Second Mile org as he was still in contact with kids. The fact that he was a volunteer assistant coach at a high school and was able to ask the school admin. staff to have kids brought to meet with him at the school unsupervised is beyond my comprehension. PSU people who knew Sandusky didn't know that he was involved in these situations? Supposedly the Second Mile was informed about the 2002 incident according to the answers given in the report about the response to McQueary's report to Paterno who reported to the AD. How was Sandusky still around in that organization till 2008? Now add in the fact that the current Penn governor was the AG for 6 years and nothing was done on this case. The New AG is in place and things start to move much quicker. McQueary could have stopped the continued abuse in 2002 but after he went the report to King Paterno route he was in a very dangerous place. He made need to be in protective custody and not from disgrunteled fans.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Not true. Most men would not have stopped this. It would have taken phenomenal courage for McQueary to do anything. We all wish he had shown that courage, but I am not surprised in the least that he did not stop it. Was he really going to get into a physical altercation with someone who had the ear of God? McQueary had to think that if it got down to he said/he said, Sandusky was going to win and McQueary's football coaching career would be over for making such a slanderous accusation.

Even by Internet standards, the bluster around "what I would have done in this situation" is amusing. How many of you have reported a manager for inappropriate comments about or otherwise harrassing a female coworker? How many of you have reported a manager who was abusing his expense account, or getting verbally abusive with another employee, or otherwise acting inappropriately? To be honest, the only times I have seen this kind of behavior reported is when the whistleblower either didn't appreciate the risks that she was taking by reporting it or had nothing to lose. Now everyone on this board is claiming that if it was them, they would be willing to risk the wrath of a coaching legend and the most powerful man at Penn State? The reality is very few of you have ever done anything that took remotely that much courage. McQueary's life could have been ruined if this went another way.

I respect him enough for going to Paterno. I bet that there are other people who witnessed Sandusky in action and didn't tell a soul. Where I lose respect for McQueary is when he takes the payoff of an assistant's job to keep quiet.

Untrue, It would have taken phenomenal courage for some, perhaps you to do anything. One does not have to get in a physical confrontation with a person performing those type of acts. You do have to show or at least let the violator know that he /she was caught in the act. This immediately stops the act dead. Phone call, cell or otherwise 911. Going to Paterno has got him here.

 

[Husky68]

This is well said.

Only a fool would say what nelsonmuntz posted and only a bigger fool would say "well said". "Phenomenal courage"; to like yell - "hey stop that I'm calling my daddy on you".

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Untrue, It would have taken phenomenal courage for some, perhaps you to do anything. One does not have to get in a physical confrontation with a person performing those type of acts. You do have to show or at least let the violator know that he /she was caught in the act. This immediately stops the act dead. Phone call, cell or otherwise 911. Going to Paterno has got him here.

I am simply calling BS on all the Internet tough guys, including you.

Here is what would happen if you called 911. The police would DEMAND that you go on the record, and would hound you until you did. The minute you go on the record, Paterno and the entire largest alumni base in the country is your sworn enemy. Of course, it would be your word against Sandusky, who had Paterno behind him, along with a long list of powerful backers in second mile. You are a grad assistant, who is in your corner again? Nobody. So nobody believes you anyway, and all you have done is slander a powerful man with powerful friends, who can proceed to ruin your life.

I am not defending Mcqueary, because it appears to me that McQueary took this information, and decided to shake down Paterno. I am just saying it is not as simple as it looks, and McQueary is not the primary villain here.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is where you and I will never see eye to eye. Paterno is a football coach, not God. And any person who fails to ferociously and graphically report a sexual assault of a pre-teen boy deserves little mercy on this earth.

It's a matter of perspective and holding people accountable for their actions. You are very consistent on the OT boards and here of making excuses for actions, trying to justify horrible performances by people in their duties and trying to make moral equivalencies out of thin air. I don't.

Life isn't always fun or fair. Reality is less than 1% of this board has ever witnessed a sexual assault of any type and even fewer have direct knowledge of a child being sodomized.

Throughout our personal and professional lives 99% of the time we show up, we do our expected duties and then go to bed and repeat. We live the movie "Groundhog Day". However all of us during our lives are a part of a half dozen or so moments or situations that define our life. And how we react and perservere through these situations rightfully overshadows everything else.

For starters, you are also very consistent on the OT boards with your self-righteousness and endless bluster about how everyone else is morally deficient. I imagine most people's experience is consistent that the guys that talk the toughest are always the biggest cowards when it hits the fan.

The reality is that much more than 1% of us have ever been aware that some kind of inappropriate sexual activity was or might be happening. Most guys, when they were younger, have stepped in with some type of inappropriate, uncomfortable or potentially dangerous situation for a woman. Maybe it was as simple as walking her home or telling another guy to get lost. You don't have a monopoly on that experience. I have stepped in front of guys that would snap me in two. Anyone can take a short term physical risk.

McQueary's situation is very different. What I can also guess is that you, and many others on this board have never been directly exposed to someone as powerful as Paterno or ever risked incurring that kind of person's wrath. So your tough talk is just bluster. For all we knew, McQueary already knew that Paterno was protecting Sandusky when he witnessed the assault. McQueary had to think that if Paterno was going to protect a predator, he would be willing to go pretty far to maintain the cover up. The world is littered with broken men who grabbed the wrong tiger by the tail.

To be clear, I am not defending McQueary. I am simply saying you are F.O.S.

 

[jpm25]

I have been on vacation this week so I haven't been on line as much, and following this as much, as many of you. So forgive me if I've missed a fact that would change what I'm about to say.

That having been said, I am not nearly as willing to make McQueary into a bad guy than others. Would it have been the right thing to do to pull Sandusky off the kid in the shower? Of course it would have. But no one is willing to give a young man slack for being in shock with what he saw? Or just being afraid or confused? It took a lot of guts to go to Paterno with this and be a whistleblower. This was a State College kid going to the king of the town and putting his own career, and to some extent life, on the line by telling Paterno what he wouldn't want to hear.

Was McQueary a hero in this story? No, he wasn't. But not all 23 year olds are heroes. To my mind, he acted property in the aftermath of that, and is far, far from a villian.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

[jpm25]

Let me ask a question. How many on this board saw a guy pick up a drunken out of her mind girl at a frat party where it was possible the girl didn't have the legal capacity to consent to sex at the moment? Such that the sex they had was arguably date rape. Now, how many of you called the police that night so your friend couldn't take advantage of any other drunk girls in the future?

That is obviously a rhetorical question. But my point is that if we start with moral outrage for everyone who thinks they may be seeing a crime but doesn't report it, there may not be many people left with jobs by the time we're done.

Wow. Just wow, BL.

 

[mauconnfan]

For starters, you are also very consistent on the OT boards with your self-righteousness and endless bluster about how everyone else is morally deficient. I imagine most people's experience is consistent that the guys that talk the toughest are always the biggest cowards when it hits the fan.

The reality is that much more than 1% of us have ever been aware that some kind of inappropriate sexual activity was or might be happening. Most guys, when they were younger, have stepped in with some type of inappropriate, uncomfortable or potentially dangerous situation for a woman. Maybe it was as simple as walking her home or telling another guy to get lost. You don't have a monopoly on that experience. I have stepped in front of guys that would snap me in two. Anyone can take a short term physical risk.

McQueary's situation is very different. What I can also guess is that you, and many others on this board have never been directly exposed to someone as powerful as Paterno or ever risked incurring that kind of person's wrath. So your tough talk is just bluster. For all we knew, McQueary already knew that Paterno was protecting Sandusky when he witnessed the assault. McQueary had to think that if Paterno was going to protect a predator, he would be willing to go pretty far to maintain the cover up. The world is littered with broken men who grabbed the wrong tiger by the tail.

To be clear, I am not defending McQueary. I am simply saying you are F.O.S.

nelson and BL are fine with their thoughts - Penn St and JoePA's community is the villain here. Many things from the attempted suicide by one of Sandusky's foster kids in '94 have pointed to a very sick monster within their walls and JoePA chose to sweep it under the rug. He knew and he knew well beyong when he reported. Because of his power within that closeknit scotiey they call Penn St he did what he wanted and allowed this to happen well before McQueary and 2002. If you don't think the ex-QB heard leaks of how sick this guy was then you are mislead. He had a difficult choice and maybe he should've stopped this assault, maybe or maybe not we all would have? Not sure but no matter this situation was allowed to continue by JoePA and noone else. Like it or not JoePA is the 2nd in line behind Sandusky for letting all of this happen during his watch, the watch many consider to be as large as God's!! Needs to be brought to justice also for turning his back I could care less about his legacy - that should now be swept under the rug just like Sandusky!!

 

[gars44]

Not true. Most men would not have stopped this. It would have taken phenomenal courage for McQueary to do anything. We all wish he had shown that courage, but I am not surprised in the least that he did not stop it. Was he really going to get into a physical altercation with someone who had the ear of God? McQueary had to think that if it got down to he said/he said, Sandusky was going to win and McQueary's football coaching career would be over for making such a slanderous accusation.

Even by Internet standards, the bluster around "what I would have done in this situation" is amusing. How many of you have reported a manager for inappropriate comments about or otherwise harrassing a female coworker? How many of you have reported a manager who was abusing his expense account, or getting verbally abusive with another employee, or otherwise acting inappropriately? To be honest, the only times I have seen this kind of behavior reported is when the whistleblower either didn't appreciate the risks that she was taking by reporting it or had nothing to lose. Now everyone on this board is claiming that if it was them, they would be willing to risk the wrath of a coaching legend and the most powerful man at Penn State? The reality is very few of you have ever done anything that took remotely that much courage. McQueary's life could have been ruined if this went another way.

I respect him enough for going to Paterno. I bet that there are other people who witnessed Sandusky in action and didn't tell a soul. Where I lose respect for McQueary is when he takes the payoff of an assistant's job to keep quiet.

Nelson, are you saying that McQueary by taking the job implicitly took an oath to keep quiet, or are you saying there was something more explicit?

By the way, I've been reading this debate, and I find everyone's perspectives really well thought out and quite interesting. It is fascinating so many feel that the ordinary man is capable of and actually expected to face those rare moments of courage in everyone's life valiantly and with proper judgment.
And conversely, that so many feel that most men are self-oriented, pragmatic and willing to look the other way if saying something could place career and privacy at risk.

I don't have any answers. I would add that I think that McQueary had been a neighbor of Sandusky's as a kid, and that the parents were friends. McQueary then attended Penn State where Sandusky was coach. So, Sandusky had to be something akin to a relative, uncle or very fairly close family friend. So, in addition to the relationship to Paterno, McQueary must have looked up to Sandusky as a figure in his life since childhood. Seeing him not get in trouble would be a big motivation for McQueary to not pursue the matter more than he did.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, are you saying that McQueary by taking the job implicitly took an oath to keep quiet, or are you saying there was something more explicit?

Not at all. I wish more people would be whistleblowers. Think of all the people that were involved in Madoff's coverup, which has impacted millions of lives. How many were involved in the Enron criminality? Hundreds probably. No one said a word until the frauds collapsed from their own weight.

The government has ridiculously friendly whistle-blower protections because it needs to create those kind of incentives for people to take the life changing risks necessary for authorities to uncover certain kinds of fraud. What you often find with whistle-blowers or people who take these kinds of risks is that they are a little off. I suggest you watch Informant! about the ADM fraud. The whole case was predicated on the work of Mark Whitaker, who was a con man and likely insane, and stole millions from ADM while he was gather evidence for the FBI of a fraud that impacted every single one of us every time we went to the grocery store. In most whistle-blower cases, the defense will attack the whistle blower both because they need to in order to win the case, but also because most whistleblowers are very vulnerable to credibility attacks. It's just the nature of the situation.

I have said in multiple posts in this thread that McQueary's behavior was not acceptable. He did have a moral obligation to protect the victims. My point is that in an environment like Penn State, which, like every football program, every single assistant's future is entirely in the hands of the Head Coach, expecting McQueary to behave differently than he did was expecting too much. Despite Diesel's and others claims to the contrary, I strongly doubt many of the posters on this board would have gone in and broken up the assault if faced with the same situation McQueary was in.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

6' 4", 240 vs 60 year old man.....enough said. Did you hear the report on Benigno and Roberts on the FAN today? McQueary once broke up a knife fight between two Penn State players but he didn't stop a 59 year old man from raping a kid? Clearly, self-interest was behind his decision not to stop Sandusky.

Agree 100% that self interest, or more specifically, self-preservation, was behind his decision to run straight to Paterno.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I am simply calling BS on all the Internet tough guys, including you.

Here is what would happen if you called 911. The police would DEMAND that you go on the record, and would hound you until you did. The minute you go on the record, Paterno and the entire largest alumni base in the country is your sworn enemy. Of course, it would be your word against Sandusky, who had Paterno behind him, along with a long list of powerful backers in second mile. You are a grad assistant, who is in your corner again? Nobody. So nobody believes you anyway, and all you have done is slander a powerful man with powerful friends, who can proceed to ruin your life.

I am not defending Mcqueary, because it appears to me that McQueary took this information, and decided to shake down Paterno. I am just saying it is not as simple as it looks, and McQueary is not the primary villain here.

You forgot the child, Nelson, Its not just Sandusky's word against yours. For the record, Im not an internet or any other kind of tough guy, and I have been placed in these types of situations before, it stinks. I know your not defending McQ, just wish you were not presumptuous speaking on what most men would do. See, your defining post for me happened last spring when the UConn men made it to the Final Four. Amid the total joy and jubilation on the Men's Basketball Board off that improbable run, you started a thread labeled, " UConn looked pretty bad at both ends..." and I thought how interesting that someone would go on there and actually say something like that. Most men/women if any, except you would hold that kind of perspective.You may not even know what you would do as a situation like this unfolds, until it happens.

 

[Waquoit]

McQueary is clearly no hero, but there are far bigger villians in this mess. No bigger than Joe Pa.. How can anyone call that monster a man of "high moral character" like I heard on the radio yesterday.

 

[UCHuskies08]

Not true. Most men would not have stopped this. It would have taken phenomenal courage for McQueary to do anything. We all wish he had shown that courage, but I am not surprised in the least that he did not stop it. Was he really going to get into a physical altercation with someone who had the ear of God? McQueary had to think that if it got down to he said/he said, Sandusky was going to win and McQueary's football coaching career would be over for making such a slanderous accusation.

Even by Internet standards, the bluster around "what I would have done in this situation" is amusing. How many of you have reported a manager for inappropriate comments about or otherwise harrassing a female coworker? How many of you have reported a manager who was abusing his expense account, or getting verbally abusive with another employee, or otherwise acting inappropriately? To be honest, the only times I have seen this kind of behavior reported is when the whistleblower either didn't appreciate the risks that she was taking by reporting it or had nothing to lose. Now everyone on this board is claiming that if it was them, they would be willing to risk the wrath of a coaching legend and the most powerful man at Penn State? The reality is very few of you have ever done anything that took remotely that much courage. McQueary's life could have been ruined if this went another way.

I respect him enough for going to Paterno. I bet that there are other people who witnessed Sandusky in action and didn't tell a soul. Where I lose respect for McQueary is when he takes the payoff of an assistant's job to keep quiet.

This is pretty much the definition of a non sequitur. None of those situations you alluded to were even close to as serious as seeing a 10 year old boy being sodomized. A manager abusing his expense account? Of course people might not deem that important to put your neck on the line, if it's for a major corporation it's probably not even a material amount. But we're talking about, again, a pre-teen being sodomized. Not an adult being chewed out, or having their creepy manager make inappropriate advances. Not even remotely close to comparable.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You forgot the child, Nelson, Its not just Sandusky's word against yours. For the record, Im not an internet or any other kind of tough guy, and I have been placed in these types of situations before, it stinks. I know your not defending McQ, just wish you were not presumptuous speaking on what most men would do. See, your defining post for me happened last spring when the UConn men made it to the Final Four. Amid the total joy and jubilation on the Men's Basketball Board off that improbable run, you started a thread labeled, " UConn looked pretty bad at both ends..." and I thought how interesting that someone would go on there and actually say something like that. Most men/women if any, except you would hold that kind of perspective.You may not even know what you would do as a situation like this unfolds, until it happens.

For the basketball thread, it was a complement. UConn played badly and won. That is the sign of a winner. I would rather UConn play badly and win than play well and lose.

If you were right about what most men would do, this world would be a much better place. It is something to aspire to, but certainly not reality. I bet dozens of people knew about Sandusky before that shower incident. Do they qualify as "most men"? McQueary going to Paterno is the first evidence we have of anyone doing anything, yet Sandusky was forced out in 1999 as one of the top DC's in the country and he never got a sniff at a head coaching job. I suspect there were whispers about Sandusky nationwide by that point, or at least that something was wrong with him off the field. No one did a thing.

This focus on McQueary is misplaced. He was a nobody that got put in a very difficult situation. Paterno could have hunted down the victim if he wanted. McQueary had to think there was also a good chance the victim would say that nothing happened. The victim was not crying for help when McQueary saw the assault. Paterno and those in power are the villains here. McQueary is a footnote.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is pretty much the definition of a non sequitur. None of those situations you alluded to were even close to as serious as seeing a 10 year old boy being sodomized. A manager abusing his expense account? Of course people might not deem that important to put your neck on the line, if it's for a major corporation it's probably not even a material amount. But we're talking about, again, a pre-teen being sodomized. Not an adult being chewed out, or having their creepy manager make inappropriate advances. Not even remotely close to comparable.

If people don't put their necks on the line in relatively low risk situations like the ones I identified, why would you expect them to do so when the stakes are much higher? Most corporations have ways for people to report misbehavior anonymously. Athletic programs do not. In fact, the entire structure of an athletic department at a football factory like Penn State is designed to PREVENT information leaks and centralize decision making.

Most people could get another job (in a normal economy) relatively easily, yet most people do not take the career risks I cited. McQueary would be out of football forever if he got on Paterno's bad side, and would be lucky to ever work in the state of Pennsylvania again.

 

[BugsyCT]

NBC tweeting McQueary sent some emails to his former teammates:

https://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander

#BREAKING (1) #Sandusky witness, McQueary email to fmr. teammates: "I did the right thing…you guys know me…" #PennState

#BREAKING (2) McQueary: "... the truth is not out there fully... I didn't just turn and run... I made sure it stopped..."

#BREAKING (3) McQueary: "... I had to make quick tough decisions…" #PennState @NBCNews #Exclusive

"I didn't just turn and run... I made sure it stopped..." ?? Didn't sound that way from the language in the GJ report. I'd like to hear what's up with this.

 

[BugsyCT]

Just in from WFAN: McQueary interview on CBS evening news tonight. (taped interview with Armen Keteyian)

 

[businesslawyer]

Just in from WFAN: McQueary interview on CBS evening news tonight. (taped interview with Armen Keteyian)

I just cringed reading that.

"I'd love to talk about this and clear the air and my name, but with the possibility of civil suits against me my legal advisor has told me I can't do that. So everyone is going to have to wait for the whole story to come out." that is all he should be saying. What is wrong with everyone in Central PA.

 

[upstater]

I just cringed reading that.

"I'd love to talk about this and clear the air and my name, but with the possibility of civil suits against me my legal advisor has told me I can't do that. So everyone is going to have to wait for the whole story to come out." that is all he should be saying. What is wrong with everyone in Central PA.

He's taking a big chance. Because he's making two claims. He intervened and stopped the rape. And, he informed the "police as well as university police administrators."

I say he's taking a chance because, for one, the GJ report says he left immediately. Now, the AG doesn't have to report everything to the GJ. In fact, saying he left immediately give the impression he covered it up. But in the next sentence, it describes McQueary as returning to his office in the facilities and calling his father. Here's where McQueary is exposed. If he stopped the rape, as he said, and if there was no physical altercation, as he has also said (he estimates the scene took 30-45 seconds) then what the heck happened to the boy? Did he take the boy into his own protection? Or did he leave Sandusky to take the boy? McQueary may not clear his name by simply stopping the rape.

I want to know which police force he contacted. Over the last few days I've learned that State College is one incestuous swamp with all the coaches and prosecutors and local politicians not only being friends, but having intermarried, especially the Sandusky's and his adoptive brood of 6. His son's brother-in-law was the Centre County DA, formerly the Deputy AG under the current governor.

 

[BugsyCT]

Well, that was some interview. Literally about 15 seconds of McQueary on his porch saying he wasn't gonna talk and getting asked about his emotional state. That was it.

Total waste of time.