McQueary out for Nebraska game

[HuskyNan]

McQuery is now on an administrative leave of absence.

Article from USA Today

 

[Chin Diesel]

I go back to a great lesson I learned last year. My Commanding Officer was holding non judicial punishment on three Sailors over an unbelievably dumb choice they made. He said something that gave me perspective. As a CO he is basically judge and jury. His opinion of the facts is absolute. Unless a Sailors wants to appeal the decision to a court martial there isn't much remedy.

He said he was disappointed and hurt by what happened. But as the head of the organiztion he has to accept people making poor choices. He said when they slept on ot and still failed to notify anyone that's when it became criminal.

To me same thing applies here. Internet tough guy or not, I'm holding McQueary and anyone else who knew specifically what happened and failed to fully and accurately report and prosecute fully accountable.

 

[upstater]

Seriously? You are in that much denial? Why was Sandusky asked to retire?

What are you talking about? I'm asking you how it was covered up. There was a full blown police investigation and a sting. Did you read the GJ report? It contains all the information about the investigation and how that case ended. There was no cover-up.

 

[upstater]

I go back to a great lesson I learned last year. My Commanding Officer was holding non judicial punishment on three Sailors over an unbelievably dumb choice they made. He said something that gave me perspective. As a CO he is basically judge and jury. His opinion of the facts is absolute. Unless a Sailors wants to appeal the decision to a court martial there isn't much remedy.

He said he was disappointed and hurt by what happened. But as the head of the organiztion he has to accept people making poor choices. He said when they slept on ot and still failed to notify anyone that's when it became criminal.

To me same thing applies here. Internet tough guy or not, I'm holding McQueary and anyone else who knew specifically what happened and failed to fully and accurately report and prosecute fully accountable.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you as to what McQueary's responsibilities were. The discussion is about McQueary's immediate devcisions when he saw the rape.

 

[metsfan2323]

There was no cover-up.

You're right. There is no cover-up. Nothing to see here.

I'm half expecting that any day now we will see Al Cowlings driving Joe Paterno around in a white Bronco.

 

[upstater]

You're right. There is no cover-up. Nothing to see here.

I'm half expecting that any day now we will see Al Cowlings driving Joe Paterno around in a white Bronco.

You clearly are not following the case. You're the only one so far that has claimed there was a cover-up in 1998. unless you have something new to add about what went down then, it's pretty clear that everyone is on the record about 1998.

 

[Chin Diesel]

And that was the point I was making. As much as I want to believe I would react affirmatively right away I have to realize there can be confusion right away. But after sleeping on it McQueary still punted.

 

[businesslawyer]

Let me ask a question. How many on this board saw a guy pick up a drunken out of her mind girl at a frat party where it was possible the girl didn't have the legal capacity to consent to sex at the moment? Such that the sex they had was arguably date rape. Now, how many of you called the police that night so your friend couldn't take advantage of any other drunk girls in the future?

That is obviously a rhetorical question. But my point is that if we start with moral outrage for everyone who thinks they may be seeing a crime but doesn't report it, there may not be many people left with jobs by the time we're done.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Bizlaw-

I think you and many others are missing the point. This wasn't an 18 year old drunk frat boy. It was a 10 year old kid.

A more accurate analogy would be - you're hanging out at a frat party and one of the brothers is screwing a 10 year old in the shower. What do you do?
For me, I may look the other way when 2 adults engage in stupid and risky decisions. They are adults. It's entirely different when a 10 year old is involved

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Bizlaw-

I think you and many others are missing the point. This wasn't an 18 year old drunk frat boy. It was a 10 year old kid.

A more accurate analogy would be - you're hanging out at a frat party and one of the brothers is screwing a 10 year old in the shower. What do you do?
For me, I may look the other way when 2 adults engage in stupid and risky decisions. They are adults. It's entirely different when a 10 year old is involved

No, I think you are missing the point.

All the Internet tough guys on this board have most likely chosen to ignore situations where the personal consequences for intervening were limited, yet claim moral outrage because McQueary didn't put himself in great career and potentially legal risk.

McQueary is getting death threats. The message to any potential hero is clear. If you see a powerful man doing something bad, no matter how bad it is, keep your mouth shut.

 

[UCweCONN]

6' 4", 240 vs 60 year old man.....enough said. Did you hear the report on Benigno and Roberts on the FAN today? McQueary once broke up a knife fight between two Penn State players but he didn't stop a 59 year old man from raping a kid? Clearly, self-interest was behind his decision not to stop Sandusky.

No, I think you are missing the point.

All the Internet tough guys on this board have most likely chosen to ignore situations where the personal consequences for intervening were limited, yet claim moral outrage because McQueary didn't put himself in great career and potentially legal risk.

McQueary is getting death threats. The message to any potential hero is clear. If you see a powerful man doing something bad, no matter how bad it is, keep your mouth shut.

 

[businesslawyer]

Not true. Most men would not have stopped this. It would have taken phenomenal courage for McQueary to do anything. We all wish he had shown that courage, but I am not surprised in the least that he did not stop it. Was he really going to get into a physical altercation with someone who had the ear of God? McQueary had to think that if it got down to he said/he said, Sandusky was going to win and McQueary's football coaching career would be over for making such a slanderous accusation.

Even by Internet standards, the bluster around "what I would have done in this situation" is amusing. How many of you have reported a manager for inappropriate comments about or otherwise harrassing a female coworker? How many of you have reported a manager who was abusing his expense account, or getting verbally abusive with another employee, or otherwise acting inappropriately? To be honest, the only times I have seen this kind of behavior reported is when the whistleblower either didn't appreciate the risks that she was taking by reporting it or had nothing to lose. Now everyone on this board is claiming that if it was them, they would be willing to risk the wrath of a coaching legend and the most powerful man at Penn State? The reality is very few of you have ever done anything that took remotely that much courage. McQueary's life could have been ruined if this went another way.

I respect him enough for going to Paterno. I bet that there are other people who witnessed Sandusky in action and didn't tell a soul. Where I lose respect for McQueary is when he takes the payoff of an assistant's job to keep quiet.

This is well said.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

6' 4", 240 vs 60 year old man.....enough said. Did you hear the report on Benigno and Roberts on the FAN today? McQueary once broke up a knife fight between two Penn State players but he didn't stop a 59 year old man from raping a kid? Clearly, self-interest was behind his decision not to stop Sandusky.

And now McQueary is in protective custody because those around the Penn State program are angry enough with him for blowing the whistle on Sandusky that he is in danger.

 

[businesslawyer]

Bizlaw-

I think you and many others are missing the point. This wasn't an 18 year old drunk frat boy. It was a 10 year old kid.

A more accurate analogy would be - you're hanging out at a frat party and one of the brothers is screwing a 10 year old in the shower. What do you do?
For me, I may look the other way when 2 adults engage in stupid and risky decisions. They are adults. It's entirely different when a 10 year old is involved

CD: I am not saying the two examples are the same. But who gets to make the choice which side of the line any particular example falls on? You? The person who has to make the choice? The majority of people on the internet after the fact? If your position is you don't always have a responsibility to report a crime to authorities, but sometimes you do and if you fail to it should cost you your job, exactly where is the line drawn so we all know how to follow it?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Bizlaw-

I think you and many others are missing the point. This wasn't an 18 year old drunk frat boy. It was a 10 year old kid.

A more accurate analogy would be - you're hanging out at a frat party and one of the brothers is screwing a 10 year old in the shower. What do you do?
For me, I may look the other way when 2 adults engage in stupid and risky decisions. They are adults. It's entirely different when a 10 year old is involved

Walk through McQueary's choices. What if he confronts Sandusky? It will be a he said/he said. Who is going to believe some nobody GA against Sandusky? What if he physically removes Sandusky? Now he has attacked a naked 59 year old former DC and personal friend of Paterno's.

I am not saying McQueary is right, because he had other choices, like making a lot of noise to scare Sandusky off or finding another witness right away. Part of me feels like going to Paterno was something of a shakedown. Still, McQueary got faced with one of those awful situations that luckily very few of us ever have to face.

 

[Husky68]

It stinks rotten.

Human behavior is unpredictable. We should all be thankful we don't find ourselves in a situation such as those poor kids or even the people who witnessed the crimes.

I'm not sure how I would react if I were in McQueary's or the janitors position. I would like to believe I would have done more. But I honestly don't know.
I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Others have stated this. And those people who make claims differently from me have no proof they would have acted the way they claim.

I would venture to say that some of the charge we are directing to McQueary is because we want to convince ourselves we are not like McQueary. We don't need convincing that we are not Sandusky. That's because none of us comes close to identifying with Sandusky's behavior. Hence the outrage towards Sandusky has been relatively minimal compared to McQueary.

I'm not defending McQueary. Rightly or wrongly his life will be ruined. But the more I know about human behavior the more I realize that self deception and denial is a strong component of human behavior. If you're interested I can relate a fascinating case study that demonstrates the extremes the human mind can take under extremely stressful situations. It offers a potential explanation for McQueary's behavior years after what he witnessed.

You another BL guy who wants proof of something where you can't prove it, or else HOW WOULD YOU KNOW. By that thinking, since you don't know how you would have acted, is it possible you would have joined Sandusky and said "I'm next". Ohhhhhhhhh, no you cry, how disgusting to even think that I (ooooooooopps, guess 68 is trying to make a point that "some things you know you wouldn't do" - like "no way I not do anything to stop the assault right then and there", period.

 

[Northbound]

Its really easy for me to say I'd have jumped in and stopped it and good god I hope that if i'm ever in that position that I'd react like that, but I'll never be sure until I'm confronted with that situation and I'm significantly larger than mcqueary and i'm a fighter by nature. However who knows how you react when someone that has likely been on a pedestal for you for years suddenly reveals his true character by partaking on one of the most disgusting events you can probably imagine. It's has to be a shock like experience and I'm not sure you think clearly, likely beat yourself up forever, and i'm NOT forgiving the inaction, I just am realistic enough to understand that it's easy to say what I would do, and I'm pretty sure what I'd do, but until I'm in the moment I'd never really know.

There are plenty of instances of people not doing the right thing in disgusting situations, ever read about the trials of some some of our troops killing innocent people? There's not a ton of people from their unit reporting it to the CO, right after it happens. This IS NOT a negative commentary on our incredibly committed folks that have given of themselves to protect what we believe in.....my father is a veteran, so don't misunderstand this comment. Think about the guys at Big Dan's Bar in New Bedford ages ago, a very similar type of situation (forceable rape) except it happened with a grown women, and for me age isn't the issue...10 or 110, it's all beyond sickening and more of a violation than I can ever imagine.

I don't condone his actions in the least and I'm appalled by them and I can't say that for certain that i'd jump on in and put a stop to the horror, I'd like to think I would, nothing is certain until it's done.

 

[Chin Diesel]

CD: I am not saying the two examples are the same. But who gets to make the choice which side of the line any particular example falls on? You? The person who has to make the choice? The majority of people on the internet after the fact? If your position is you don't always have a responsibility to report a crime to authorities, but sometimes you do and if you fail to it should cost you your job, exactly where is the line drawn so we all know how to follow it?

For me it's much like the Supreme's said regarding pornography. I know it when I see it. This isn't some pre-law 101 hypothetical situation. It's a real life, holy shhitt, I have to do something right situation. McQueary was given a real life final exam and he flunked it.


And he's not the only person who's ever failed. Read the yahoo! article about the Red Sox locker room attendent who molested kids for 25 years.

 

[ctchamps]

You another BL guy who wants proof of something where you can't prove it, or else HOW WOULD YOU KNOW. By that thinking, since you don't know how you would have acted, is it possible you would have joined Sandusky and said "I'm next". Ohhhhhhhhh, no you cry, how disgusting to even think that I (ooooooooopps, guess 68 is trying to make a point that "some things you know you wouldn't do" - like "no way I not do anything to stop the assault right then and there", period.

Who says I'm questioning you. You might be the perfect advocate for the tens of thousands of kids who are sexually assaulted every day by family members or the tens of thousands of kids who are sold every year in the sex trade. And that's in this country alone. I'm not accusing individual people of doing or not doing something.

The world is a far darker place than you think. My wife counseled a lot of men and women who were sexually abused as children. Many of them did not have anyone coming to their rescue when they were kids.

Here is a link to sexual abuse. I warn you in advance the numbers are disgusting.

http://www.parentsformeganslaw.org/public/statistics_childSexualAbuse.html

How many people would you estimate are imprisoned for sexual crimes? I doubt 1% are incarcerated. This is why I have my doubts about how people would react when confronted with these situations in the real world as opposed to the abstract world.
Maybe ignorance is bliss. I apologize to anyone who thinks I'm defending people or attacking people. I'm doing neither.

 

[ctchamps]

Its really easy for me to say I'd have jumped in and stopped it and good god I hope that if i'm ever in that position that I'd react like that, but I'll never be sure until I'm confronted with that situation and I'm significantly larger than mcqueary and i'm a fighter by nature. However who knows how you react when someone that has likely been on a pedestal for you for years suddenly reveals his true character by partaking on one of the most disgusting events you can probably imagine. It's has to be a shock like experience and I'm not sure you think clearly, likely beat yourself up forever, and i'm NOT forgiving the inaction, I just am realistic enough to understand that it's easy to say what I would do, and I'm pretty sure what I'd do, but until I'm in the moment I'd never really know.

There are plenty of instances of people not doing the right thing in disgusting situations, ever read about the trials of some some of our troops killing innocent people? There's not a ton of people from their unit reporting it to the CO, right after it happens. This IS NOT a negative commentary on our incredibly committed folks that have given of themselves to protect what we believe in.....my father is a veteran, so don't misunderstand this comment. Think about the guys at Big Dan's Bar in New Bedford ages ago, a very similar type of situation (forceable rape) except it happened with a grown women, and for me age isn't the issue...10 or 110, it's all beyond sickening and more of a violation than I can ever imagine.

I don't condone his actions in the least and I'm appalled by them and I can't say that for certain that i'd jump on in and put a stop to the horror, I'd like to think I would, nothing is certain until it's done.

I'm impressed with your introspection. It is honest imo.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Not true. Most men would not have stopped this. It would have taken phenomenal courage for McQueary to do anything. We all wish he had shown that courage, but I am not surprised in the least that he did not stop it. Was he really going to get into a physical altercation with someone who had the ear of God? McQueary had to think that if it got down to he said/he said, Sandusky was going to win and McQueary's football coaching career would be over for making such a slanderous accusation.

Even by Internet standards, the bluster around "what I would have done in this situation" is amusing. How many of you have reported a manager for inappropriate comments about or otherwise harrassing a female coworker? How many of you have reported a manager who was abusing his expense account, or getting verbally abusive with another employee, or otherwise acting inappropriately? To be honest, the only times I have seen this kind of behavior reported is when the whistleblower either didn't appreciate the risks that she was taking by reporting it or had nothing to lose. Now everyone on this board is claiming that if it was them, they would be willing to risk the wrath of a coaching legend and the most powerful man at Penn State? The reality is very few of you have ever done anything that took remotely that much courage. McQueary's life could have been ruined if this went another way.

I respect him enough for going to Paterno. I bet that there are other people who witnessed Sandusky in action and didn't tell a soul. Where I lose respect for McQueary is when he takes the payoff of an assistant's job to keep quiet.

This is where you and I will never see eye to eye. Paterno is a football coach, not God. And any person who fails to ferociously and graphically report a sexual assault of a pre-teen boy deserves little mercy on this earth.

It's a matter of perspective and holding people accountable for their actions. You are very consistent on the OT boards and here of making excuses for actions, trying to justify horrible performances by people in their duties and trying to make moral equivalencies out of thin air. I don't.

Life isn't always fun or fair. Reality is less than 1% of this board has ever witnessed a sexual assault of any type and even fewer have direct knowledge of a child being sodomized.

Throughout our personal and professional lives 99% of the time we show up, we do our expected duties and then go to bed and repeat. We live the movie "Groundhog Day". However all of us during our lives are a part of a half dozen or so moments or situations that define our life. And how we react and perservere through these situations rightfully overshadows everything else.

 

[ctchamps]

This is where you and I will never see eye to eye. Paterno is a football coach, not God. And any person who fails to ferociously and graphically report a sexual assault of a pre-teen boy deserves little mercy on this earth.

It's a matter of perspective and holding people accountable for their actions. You are very consistent on the OT boards and here of making excuses for actions, trying to justify horrible performances by people in their duties and trying to make moral equivalencies out of thin air. I don't.

Life isn't always fun or fair. Reality is less than 1% of this board has ever witnessed a sexual assault of any type and even fewer have direct knowledge of a child being sodomized.

Throughout our personal and professional lives 99% of the time we show up, we do our expected duties and then go to bed and repeat. We live the movie "Groundhog Day". However all of us during our lives are a part of a half dozen or so moments or situations that define our life. And how we react and perservere through these situations rightfully overshadows everything else.

I think things are a lot worse than you might think. Many people turn a blind eye to the type of crime that confronted Paterno and McQuaery.

http://www.parentsformeganslaw.org/public/statistics_childSexualAbuse.html

Their reactions are unfortunately the norm as opposed to the exception.

 

[businesslawyer]

For me it's much like the Supreme's said regarding pornography. I know it when I see it. This isn't some pre-law 101 hypothetical situation. It's a real life, holy shhitt, I have to do something right situation. McQueary was given a real life final exam and he flunked it.


And he's not the only person who's ever failed. Read the yahoo! article about the Red Sox locker room attendent who molested kids for 25 years.

I understand what you are feeling, but remember I am not arguing that McQueary did "right." I am asking how you punish a person, by loss of job or criminal offense, for not stopping a crime, or not reporting it, on a "I know it if I see it standard." That standard is fine to debate right and wrong, but you can't punish someone for it unless you are willing to say that it's o.k. for you to be punished for not reporting a crime that you thought was not significant but someone else down the line thinks was.

 

[Vowelguy]

He could've ended this whole thing on that day in 2002.

I doubt that. This all should've ended after the 1998 sting. There were numerous warnings, all of which failed to stop it.

 

[BugsyCT]

This brave student speaking to the PSU crowd gets it.

The obnoxious morons chanting and trying to discredit him because he's wearing a Tony Dorsett(Pitt alum) jersey....not so much.