McGraw on Loyd

[Sargassoc]

She's leaving school early to play professionally. I think it's a safe bet that money was a factor.

Not in the WNBA, it isn't.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Not in the WNBA, it isn't.

Anything she makes in the WNBA is more than what she's getting to play for free in college, and that's not even counting the substantial outlay she could probably get from a European team.

 

[JoePgh]

One factor that hasn't been mentioned here, but that is probably important to Muffet, is being able to boast to recruits and their parents about a 100% graduation rate for scholarship players. I would guess that Notre Dame could make that boast, as could Geno. Now Jewell's decision will cause that rate to be slightly less than 100% for Notre Dame.

That was part of the reason why Geno was so insistent about Diana finishing her degree. He said she wouldn't be welcome back on campus for reunions or other events unless she finished her degree. He knew the value of the 100% graduation rate boast. I'm sure Muffett does also.

 

[hjoerring]

A couple of things are in order here. First, it adds very little to the situation by saying 'we/Uconn would have uttered the same had Stewart, Morgan, Jeffereson done the same. Should she stay or should she go? For whose benefit? If a lesser status player done the same woulæd Muffet have expressed herself in the same way? She put out the Notre Dame diploma out there as if it was the only reason for Lloyd coming back, but you can read in her discourse that- it's the Program stupid. She could have served herself and Lloyd better imp by saying that while she has some issues with the decision, she respects it and the Program will do all to assure that Llyod complete the remaining classes during the off-seasons (and by Netclasses). Instead, she comes across as dissing on the young woman at a time when she may need the support of the staff. As others have said here, wait until the woman is through the draft to comment on students leaving early. Even if it screws up your perfect graduation stats.

 

[meyers7]

Sure, but it's obviously a factor in Loyd's decision, so why is she wrong for leaving early? She's old enough, and there's only so much time you can earn money as an athlete. Why spend that time working for free for Muffet McGraw, of all people?

Well she was not working for free. She was being compensated.

 

[LesMis89]

Muffet didn't sound bitter to me at all. As has already been pointed out, we have no idea how the interviewers' questions were phrased and what of the questioner's words might have been picked up by McGraw in her responses.

Loyd absolutely has the right to her own decisions. But I can also see how McGraw would think her decision was a bad one, particularly since the coach says she doesn't know Loyd's reason(s) for leaving.

My youngest is two months younger than Loyd. She's about to graduate college and is in the midst of a job search - big decision time, very much like Loyd. She's made it clear to me what her goals are and what her values are. If she suddenly did a 180 and did something the total opposite of what she'd previously told me, I promise you that I'd want the opportunity to speak with her at length to try and make sure her switch was sound. Even if just for my own comfort.

Edited addition - If I wasn't able to speak with her at length, I'd be very likely to think her change of heart/switch in goals was a bad decision, whether it was or not.

 

[chrissaran]

Have to agree with Muffet. There is no upside to women leaving early. And yes, Notre Dame is an elite institution academically. Best to her, but she'll never get her senior year back. Hope Morgan stays for her fifth year. I believe she will.

 

[TFintheMix]

Wow!!!.Sounds like sour grapes o me......But its OK for coaches to walk away and not look back...She can always come back and finish her degree..Muffett...Please move on

The decision for Loyd to go pro is debatable but I completely agree that coaches are biased in that it NEVER benefits them to lose their star player.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

After I signed off around 2am I started thinking, (I know, me and thinking in the same sentence, unbelievable!) Where were Jewell Loyd's parents through all of this? This hasn't been mentioned once in the feedback above! This decision was not reached by Jewell alone, you don't make this important a decision without discussion from your parents! I can imagine that the idea that ND wasn't going to beat UCONN to win the NCAA Championship in her senior year, nor was she going to beat Breanna Stewart for the Player of the Year awards, so why NOT leave early and get the jump on the really good players coming out after next season! Since this is supposed to be a light draft she knows she'll either be 1 or 2 in the WNBA Draft and get a better offer from a foreign team!

 

[TDiNozzo]

The announcers at the game felt McGraw gave up too soon toward the end;not fouling, maybe she felt the same, and said seeya...

 

[ctdad]

Those of you who just see the $ to be made overseas should read the following article about a pair of former WBB players, one a Husky and one a Domer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/s...le-the-blues-in-first-season-abroad.html?_r=0

Not exactly a glamorous life. And they at least can keep each other company.

Hopefully Loyd consulted with Diggins, McBride, whoever to get as much info as possible before making her decision.

 

[ctdad]

The announcers at the game felt McGraw gave up too soon toward the end;not fouling, maybe she felt the same, and said seeya...

The decision was made well before the championship game; neither the outcome nor the way it was played had anything to do with it.

 

[Striper69]

To be the devil's advocate here: Looking at it from Muffet's POV- she's lost the only chance she had to be competitive with UCONN and probably all other FF teams next season. If I were in her shoes I'd be pretty P'ed off about it. I would personally be very bitter especially when Jewell had assured me otherwise before the fact.

But life goes on...

 

[cabbie191]

Bingo about Muffet's appearance or lack thereof at the draft.

It occurs to me that so often what we see on the surface is far from the reality below. I am reminded of how surprised I was when I read that most of the actors on the MASH television show despised Gary Burghoff (Radar).

Maybe there are/were more tensions at ND then we could have imagined.

 

[Striper69]

A little more insight is provided in this article.
http://www.ndinsider.com/basketball...cle_b9cacab6-e312-11e4-a4fa-e78df787afea.html
Apparently, Loyd is not going to be an easy interview.

The key here is : the agent named in the article.

 

[Striper69]

Those of you who just see the $ to be made overseas should read the following article about a pair of former WBB players, one a Husky and one a Domer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/s...le-the-blues-in-first-season-abroad.html?_r=0

Not exactly a glamorous life. And they at least can keep each other company.

Hopefully Loyd consulted with Diggins, McBride, whoever to get as much info as possible before making her decision.

I think they ended up enjoying their time overseas. Kayla had her season stopped short because of an injury.

Getting paid to play the game you love and being in Europe? At most a few hours away from Germany, Holland, Austria, Switzerland etc, etc.

Gimme a break!

 

[BRS24]

Whoa - Wasserman Group, Lindsay Kagawa Colas - represent Taurasi, Bird, Delle Donne, Griner, Moore, and 9 others, along with 10 of US women's soccer players (Lori Chalupny, Ashlyn Harris, Tobin Heath, Lauren Holiday, Ali Krieger, Sydney Leroux, Alex Morgan, Heather O’Reilly, Megan Rapinoe and Abby Wambach)

EDIT - and Augustus, Charles, Dolson, Lawson, among others.

Was credited for "negotiated the first deal for a female basketball player with Nike’s Jordan Brand" ... assuming this is Maya.

 

[pinotbear]

Lol muffed out. She is out of touch and reactionary towards her players.
There should've been more conversations about this draft possibility prior to this year, initiated by the coaching staff. It's not notre dames choice, but rather the individual players by deadline.

Muffet should not comment on players decision to become professionals, but rather support them unconditionally.

I'm not a Muffet fan, but, I don't see "out of touch and reactionary" in her comments. And, I find a bit of a contradiction in saying "It's not Notre Dames choice, but rather the individual players", and then saying "Muffet should not comment on players decision to become professionals, but rather support them unconditionally."

If it's the player's choice, and not Notre Dame, then why should Muffet be expected to not comment and support them unconditionally? This is a reflection of an attitude that I found hypocritical when I worked in higher Ed for 14 years - students want to be "independent adults" when it suits them, and they want to be not held responsible or coddled, when it suits them. If it's Loyd's decision, pure and simple, then she has to accept everything that comes with it - including criticism and disagreement (particularly from her coached, whom she had very recently told, "I'm not turning professional". There is the distinct possibility that Jewel flat-out lied to Muffet.). You can't have it both ways - "I'm my own person, I'm an adult!", but, "Don't be mean to me, don't criticize, don't be unsupportive!"

If Loyd wants to call her own shots and chart her own path, great - just be honest about it, and take full ownership of it.

 

[Orangutan]

To be the devil's advocate here: Looking at it from Muffet's POV- she's lost the only chance she had to be competitive with UCONN and probably all other FF teams next season. If I were in her shoes I'd be pretty P'ed off about it. I would personally be very bitter especially when Jewell had assured me otherwise before the fact.

But life goes on...

That's the part that gets me. If nothing else, when it comes out that Loyd is leaving, it's embarrassing to have been telling the press otherwise in the lead up. It makes Muffet look a little foolish.

 

[UcMiami]

Anything she makes in the WNBA is more than what she's getting to play for free in college, and that's not even counting the substantial outlay she could probably get from a European team.

Sorry - just not true - she was receiving compensation to the tune of $62,461 (tuition room and board at ND) plus full time access to a personal trainer and state of the art training equipment. and I am pretty sure free access on demand to academic tutors, nutritionists, sports psychologists, guidance counselors, etc. You may think that other stuff is not important, but most pros are paying out of their own pocket for some combination of all those things. And agents don't come cheap either - not sure what they take from WNBA players, but it is typically 10+% of gross pay.

Add in good European money and she is definitely coming out on the plus side.

The down side ... most pros comment on the lack of camaraderie being a major transition for them, many pros comment negatively on the stress of learning to live in foreign countries and foreign cultures with language barriers, strange foods, and loneliness.

Just another point that might have played in the decision -
It was a strange year for ND with a strange team dynamic (Reimer leaving the team for a week) and perhaps that also influenced the choice. Sometimes college teams do not gel, and I have no idea, but perhaps ND had that issue this year.

 

[Bigpetunia]

Well she was not working for free. She was being compensated.

If I could reward this thought with three "likes" I would do so, as should anyone who, like me, has footed the bill for a few college tuitions. The full scholarship deal is hefty compensation, and, irrespective of our mutual admiration or disdain for Notre Dame, it's a pretty elite academic institution from which to receive a free ride...more, much more, than quid pro quo! If one of my own kids, for whom I'd provided that ride, elected to blow off his or her Senior year, I'd be somewhat apoplectic. Further, while I understand all the comments about the men's game and the women's being very different insofar as the lure and magnitude of future professional compensation is concerned, I have to admit that I don't feel all that differently about the men. I guess I just hate the whole one-and-done culture....or two-and-done....or three. The players on both sides are more-than-handsomely compensated for their skills.

 

[Bonpland]

I agree with UcMiami. She won't get this year back and I think she'll be sorry, not right away, but at some point. And Muffet's comments were not in a press release. Someone put a mic in her face and she answered.
Her comments last Final Four were unforgiveable. She has yet to apologize and we can take her to task for that, but a coach loses the most important player on her team an hour after pressing Uconn well into the second half, and then is asked for her reaction.....she did better than most in controlling herself, especially if she felt that she had been lied to or mis-lead.

 

[Orangutan]

I agree.

Although being completely sympathetic and non-judgemental about her remarks (in the other thread),
there is surely some disconnect between the staff and the team now that two star players have opted to leave during the same season (one changed her mind).
Or is it possible that campus life there is not quite as bucolic as it is cranked up to be.

I haven't seen many reactions from former teammates…Achonwa seemed understanding, Devereaux Peters most surely not.

Whatever disconnect may have existed between the coaches and Reimer seems to have ultimately been repaired and the proof is in the dramatic improvement Reimer made. I don't have it at hand but I recall Carol Owens saying that they realized they have to coach Reimer differently than they did Achonwa, make it more of a discussion rather than just giving her orders. Seemed to do the trick.

Given that the younger Mabrey followed her older sister, Achonwa stuck around to be operations manager, McBride and Diggins come back frequently, etc., I think generally she has a good relationship with her players. Even Jewell was joking at the Final Four about how she enjoyed team dinners at the McGraw house even though she suspected it was actually her husband doing all the cooking.

My concern is that being hard on Loyd going forward might create new rifts with teammates that side with her decision.

 

[meyers7]

If I could reward this thought with three "likes" I would do so, as should anyone who, like me, has footed the bill for a few college tuitions. The full scholarship deal is hefty compensation, and, irrespective of our mutual admiration or disdain for Notre Dame, it's a pretty elite academic institution from which to receive a free ride...more, much more, than quid pro quo! If one of my own kids, for whom I'd provided that ride, elected to blow off his or her Senior year, I'd be somewhat apoplectic. Further, while I understand all the comments about the men's game and the women's being very different insofar as the lure and magnitude of future professional compensation is concerned, I have to admit that I don't feel all that differently about the men. I guess I just hate the whole one-and-done culture....or two-and-done....or three. The players on both sides are more-than-handsomely compensated for their skills.

I agree to an extent. I have no problem with the coming "stipends" in addition to scholarships. The players (students) do sacrifice a lot for their dream. Not easy juggling academics and Div 1 BB. A lot is expected out of them.

However on top of the school/degree scholarship, they also get the coaching, use of facilities that they need to get them to the next level where they can make a living. Along with travel, name recognition (build their brand, useful for foreign leagues, endorsements), contacts for future jobs (coaching, TV, etc).

 

[2Husky]

I'm surprised everyone just assumes muffet is telling the absolute truth about the earlier conversations and the process that Loyd told her. Not to say she is lying, but there could just be miscommunication. Loyd could have said in the earlier meeting she was "just focusing on finishing up here, and not worried about the pros". Which she meant worried about the current season, and muffet assumes she means finishing her degree. We really don't know how the meetings went. Even if muffets accounts are accurate it doesn't mean Loyd lied, or that she is making a mistake, she simply could have changed her mind.

It is not at all ridiculous to want to go pro, even if the money is much less than NBA money, WNBA money is still pretty good for part of a year, its more than a lot of Americans make in a full year. And she won't be limited to just that money. If schools are really concerned perhaps they should raise their players pay. Getting paid with money is generally better than being paid with tuition, room and board and all the other stuff. If you were going to spend your money on that anyway it wouldn't matter but not everyone has the same preferences. College sports are big business in which everyone gets paid except the athletes, so all players should maximize their potential benefit and not feel obligated to a system that seeks to exploit them (which is different from the actual people that may genuinely care about them).

Also most schools let former athletes finish their degrees tuition free, and if ND won't i'm sure she could find an equally good school that is a lot cheaper and would accept ND transfer credits.