McCummings Injured?

[huskymedic]

hmmnnn. I read his post as sarcasm.

Ummm maybe - but I've seen some strange homeopathic and home remedies over the years so you never know.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Unfortunate for Scott. While it is incorrect to draw a causation conclusion that his injury was caused by his physical conditioning, it's also completely wrong, to think that showing up 30lbs overweight to a division 1A football training camp, with the intensity level expected that I hope is there, for the schedule we are playing this fall, did not increase his chances of sustaining some kind of significant injury.

There is plenty of data to support that unconditioned athletes sustain higher incidence and severity of injury as compared to well conditioned athletes across all sports and sport specific conditioning/activity and there is also plenty of data that shows that major Achilles tendon injuries in football players (both American, and international futbol) occur during preseason and into the first month or so of a season after a layoff of continuous competition. Not all injuries happen in that time period, but a statistically significant amount do. Somebody made reference to Greek mythos. The tendon didn't earn that name for nothing. Powerful people blow out their Achilles tendons when they are involved in strenuous activity.

So, I'm not willing to go as far as to say that Scott blew his Achilles out running with the wideouts because he is 30lbs overweight, but I'm very comfortable saying that his risk of sustaining a major injury was way up, because of his conditioning.

Anyway - unfortunate, and no matter what, the kid now has a situation in front of him, that he's going to have to confront, and overcome and how he does it, will certainly determine without a doubt, if he ever has a roster spot again at UCONN.

Man down, another one needs to step in.

 

[pj]

No, it wasn't sarcasm, I was serious. I agree with huskymedic that lack of conditioning was probably the major issue, that's why I raised the issue of making the switch in the spring rather than the first day of camp. But diet matters too. For example, occult infections can severely deplete vitamin C; lack of vitamin C prevents collagen synthesis, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6265920, and collagen is 91% of the Achilles tendon by mass. Tissues are always turning over and being degraded, so continual re-synthesis is needed to maintain tendon strength. These are simple matters to monitor but if they're not done, it's easy for 1 out of 85 players per year to have a severe C deficiency. Tight calves as huskymedic says increase the stress on the tendon. Tired and stiff muscles change the gait in ways that further increase stress. A weakened tendon can easily break.

 

[pj]

Eh... I'm a little skeptical that eating collagen-rich foods or supplements helps your tendons / cartilage. I thought the stomach breaks down polypeptides / proteins into single amino acids, or maybe short peptides.

Collagen has an unusual amino acid mix and tendon matrix is rich in glycosaminoglycans and sulfate moieties which are also provided in cooked tendon.

 

[Husky68]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

 

[bmayuc]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

Based on your expert hackery from reading a website, that must be it.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[huskynation]

Per Achillestendon.com

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

This definitely makes sense. Switching to a new new position, especially from qb to wr when the player has never played the position in his life carries increased risks. The unfamiliar movements and lack of muscle memory, probably even incorrect technique helped to increase risk of injury. Now combine that with fatigue and being overweight pushes the risk up further.

I know hindsight is 20/20. However, For SM to come in at 257 (30+ pounds heavier than his playing weight) and to suddenly switch to WR and go 110 percent, at full pace with the other WRs who have been conditioning and training all offseason ( working on their , footwork and explosiveness) is a recipe for disaster. CB and WR are very tough positions to play they require sudden and drastic changes in direction, o to 100 stop and go acceleration. when you are completely out of shape definitely is not a good idea. I understand that SM is 20 years old however, maybe it would have been better for him to have been riding the bike and doing other conditioning to first get his weight down before slowly acclimating to the new position. I know the NFL has a conditioning test that players have to pass, shouldn't college have something similar? SM looked very overweight in spring practice, bloated in fact, so for him to gain another 17 pounds on top of that and then suddenly have to keep up with the training camp regimen of a wideout would have been quite some achievement.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Collagen has an unusual amino acid mix and tendon matrix is rich in glycosaminoglycans and sulfate moieties which are also provided in cooked tendon.

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

 

[J187Money]

This isn't going to help his weight. Hope he recovers and gets back into playing shape.

 

[huskyblooz]

Best of luck on Scott's recovery. Seems like a coachable kid.

 

[Palatine]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

Yep, or it could be genetic. Or he just twisted it wrong. Or he didn't warm up enough or too much. No one will ever know.

 

[Chin Diesel]

As long as everyone is speculating, accusing or piling on, I hope the coaching and conditioning staff already has or has planned a meeting to go over every aspect of what led up to the injury.

Everyone from the football coaches, strength/conditioning coaches and nutrionists should be involved and they need to be open and frank with each other.

We know the football coaches were pisssed off with his off-season conditioning for the second season in a row.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Before this turns into something crazy discussion.

McCummings could have blown out an Acchilles backpedaling in a throwing a drill and planting his foot. (I'm 99% sure that Marino and Testaverde blew out their Acchiles on a drop back and plant).

Saying that the coaches making him run with WR's caused this is completely unfounded. Jesse Joseph blew out his acchilles on a normal pass rush against Maryland, in the first month of the season last year. No different forces, etc. Again, drawing a conclusion that different forces etc, caused this - wrong. (Joseph'sand McCummings injury completely consistent with the highest risk time frame for injury though (pre-season, early season)

Bottom line is that a scholarship athlete showed up to camp, with a schedule coming up that rivals any other schedule in the country for division 1A difficulty, and he showed up to work, 30lbs overweight, and that means totally unconditioned.

Making him ride the bike instead of practice? Holy shiiiite. This isn't day camp at the YMCA.

He showed up unconditioned, for a highly, highly intense physical activity with risks involved, and he sustained a non-contact injury, that ended his season. Did one cause the other? No. But it's a correlation for sure. Causation and correlation - that's something that college level education should be able to differentiate and understand.

These types of things happen in football, and it should be a lesson to everyone on that roster. You want to compete and be healthy in this game? Be in shape.

 

[junglehusky]

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

So there's a protein called collagen that's in your tendons and cartillage. It's an extracellular protein which means it's synthesized inside a cell, and then secreted / deposited outside the cell. Proteins are a string of chemical building blocks called amino acids. So, the question is if you eat things like soup made with bones, that has lots of animal collagen, or take supplements, if that would help your joint health. I was being skeptical of that claim, by saying that your digestive system is going to break down that beef or chicken collagen into amino acids, so it's not like your body can take the chicken collagen, transport it to your knee or wherever, and incorporate it into your body next to your human collagen. Medic countered that by saying that the chemical composition of the amino acids in collagen is different than that of other proteins, so it might still be beneficial to have some of those rare amino acids (building blocks) even if your stomach is breaking them down into individual amino acids. (Some amino acids can be made by your cells, others can't and have to be eaten in your diet). The other thing he was talking about was sugars that decorate the outside of collagen and other proteins especially extracellular proteins in joints.

 

[Srqhusky]

Just take glucosamine. Unless u like tendons

 

[huskymedic]

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

Just wander down to your local Asian eatery of choice (Vietnamese, Chinese or Japanese) and get you some beef tendon soup and have @ it. You are what you eat.

 

[Carl Spackler]

So there's a protein called collagen that's in your tendons and cartillage. It's an extracellular protein which means it's synthesized inside a cell, and then secreted / deposited outside the cell. Proteins are a string of chemical building blocks called amino acids. So, the question is if you eat things like soup made with bones, that has lots of animal collagen, or take supplements, if that would help your joint health. I was being skeptical of that claim, by saying that your digestive system is going to break down that beef or chicken collagen into amino acids, so it's not like your body can take the chicken collagen, transport it to your knee or wherever, and incorporate it into your body next to your human collagen. Medic countered that by saying that the chemical composition of the amino acids in collagen is different than that of other proteins, so it might still be beneficial to have some of those rare amino acids (building blocks) even if your stomach is breaking them down into individual amino acids. (Some amino acids can be made by your cells, others can't and have to be eaten in your diet). The other thing he was talking about was sugars that decorate the outside of collagen and other proteins especially extracellular proteins in joints.

None of this matters, unless a supplement being ingested (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) or a natural food product (a good pig's feet stew) makes it past the stomach. It either needs to be enterically coated with something that will get it through the stomach and into the intestine, or be consumed in high enough volume, that some of it makes it through the stomach without being broken down in to basic protein chains and amino acids. If it doesn't make it past the stomach intact, it's no different than eating a pile of buffalo wings once the proteins and amino acids make it to the intestines.

The mechanism by which collagen building blocks make it to the cartilaginous parts of the joints in the human body is unknown, but there is plenty of research to show that when you take these kinds of supplements in mega doses, for long periods of time, a significant amount of people (not all) will show improvement in their articular cartilage composition. That's just articular cartilage though.

I am completely unaware of any research that shows that supplementation with basic collagen building blocks improves tendon composition.

The primary mechanism by which tendons rupture, is more neurologic than muscle or tendon physiology IMNSHO. You're looking at the interaction of muscle spindles in parallel with muscle fibers in a relation to the types of spinal cord mediated reflexes that occur with the receptors of GTO's in series with collagen fibers and muscle fibers at the myotendinous junction.

And physical exercise and activity, creates changes over time in how those spindles and GTO's interact as compared to people that are inactive.

If we're going to get all medical about it.

 

[BlueMAB]

When has SM been used as a drop back passer? Whether he was lined up at WR or QB, he was going to plant and run. At QB he'd take the snap and run, at WR he'd run off the snap.

He's closer to Tim Tebow than Tom Brady, can we stop pretending he was never asked to run until he got hurt?

 

[J187Money]

When has SM been used as a drop back passer? Whether he was lined up at WR or QB, he was going to plant and run. At QB he'd take the snap and run, at WR he'd run off the snap.

He's closer to Tim Tebow than Tom Brady, can we stop pretending he was never asked to run until he got hurt?

It's different when you run slowly into the back of a crumbling line and lose a yard.

 

[Waquoit]

Before this turns into something crazy discussion...

Saying that the coaches making him run with WR's caused this is completely unfounded.

You're the voice of reason? Completely unfounded? I think it's totally founded. I agree with Chin. This was a decision that couldn't be made in the spring?

 

[metsfan2323]

You're the voice of reason? Completely unfounded? I think it's totally founded. I agree with Chin. This was a decision that couldn't be made in the spring?

P said the other day he was still in the mix for QB. My take based on what I read was that he was moved to WR as punishment for showing up grossly over weight with the thought that the running reps would help him shed a few pounds.

I don't understand how someone who is as bright as Scott seemed to be out of touch with the off season conditioning program, the whole story is very strange.

 

[pj]

P said the other day he was still in the mix for QB. My take based on what I read was that he was moved to WR as punishment for showing up grossly over weight with the thought that the running reps would help him shed a few pounds.

I don't understand how someone who is as bright as Scott seemed to be out of touch with the off season conditioning program, the whole story is very strange.

I'm guessing he felt he was out of the mix at QB and was discouraged, so didn't put energy into training.

All the more reason to talk frankly to him in the spring and choose a course for the fall at that time. He needed to know what his path to the field was then. Or to transfer, if that was his preference. We could have made room for one of the greyshirts if he had left.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Just to spread this thread even more thin.

When McCummings showed up to spring ball at 240lbs the coaching and conditioning staff should have given Scott a detailed diet and workout regimen that would allow him to safely lose weight and show up to fall ball ready to go.
And they should have had weekly weigh-ins and reports sent from the medical/conditioning staff to the coaching staff. The QB coach should also have been having weekly progress meetings with McCummings.
Bottom line is there isn't any valid excuse for him showing up to camp that much out of shape and the other coaching staff being ignorant of hos conditioning.

 

[BHusky]

Just to spread this thread even more thin.

When McCummings showed up to spring ball at 240lbs the coaching and conditioning staff should have given Scott a detailed diet and workout regimen that would allow him to safely lose weight and show up to fall ball ready to go.
And they should have had weekly weigh-ins and reports sent from the medical/conditioning staff to the coaching staff. The QB coach should also have been having weekly progress meetings with McCummings.
Bottom line is there isn't any valid excuse for him showing up to camp that much out of shape and the other coaching staff being ignorant of hos conditioning.

The odds are that they did all that you mentioned, but if the kid does not participate in summer training on campus there is no way to track his progress. There is a very fine line in regards to what communication can happen between coach and player after Spring ball and they are not even supposed to watch team workouts and drills during the summer. Safe to say his position coach was not making weekly calls to track workout progress at home.

he did not win the starting job and it is likley his role in the IWldcat would diminish with the new OC. There was probably not a lot of urgency or motivation on his end to stay in peak shape (or even workout it seems) during spring ball and the summer. Players respond differently to these types of decisions and they all do not have the same committments.

NFL players show up to camp out of shape all the time without coaches being aware of the situation. And these are players fighting for jobs to continue their livelihoods.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The odds are that they did all that you mentioned, but if the kid does not participate in summer training on campus there is no way to track his progress. There is a very fine line in regards to what communication can happen between coach and player after Spring ball and they are not even supposed to watch team workouts and drills during the summer. Safe to say his position coach was not making weekly calls to track workout progress at home.

he did not win the starting job and it is likley his role in the IWldcat would diminish with the new OC. There was probably not a lot of urgency or motivation on his end to stay in peak shape (or even workout it seems) during spring ball and the summer. Players respond differently to these types of decisions and they all do not have the same committments.

NFL players show up to camp out of shape all the time without coaches being aware of the situation. And these are players fighting for jobs to continue their livelihoods.

You are correct about the coaches not being allowed to have much contact.

I lesser known secret is that the strength and conditioning coaches have more consistent contact with the players than most of the coaching staff and are less regulated in the off-season. Strength and conditioning coaches can be sounding boards, mentors, etc when the position coaches aren't allowed direct contact. Also, the S&C staff can view and report to the coaches which players are going all out and who's mailing it in. Finally, they can see who is stepping up as leaders within the locker room.


And for an out of shape player, you frame the situation as a medical issue, not a football issue. That allows for more follow-ups. You work the medical and NCAA system to your advantage. And you do it correctly with the goal of rehabilitating the player and getting them in to the best position to succeed come fall practice.

 

[Husky68]

Based on your expert hackery from reading a website, that must be it.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Gee, did your mommy forget to put your snack in your lunch box? Fat, out of shape, sudden movements not previously done in any type of volume - nah, couldn't have had anything to do with it.

 

[Waquoit]

P said the other day he was still in the mix for QB. My take based on what I read was that he was moved to WR as punishment...

Out for the season, I guess they showed him...

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

This whole thing is mind boggling. If he showed up that out of shape (30 lbs. or so) he should not have been allowed to participate in football drills. Ride the bike or jog around the field.

McCummings is the ultimate one to blame, but add this to the pile of stuff that I believe the staff mishandled.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You guys do know that any contact between player and coaching staff from the exit meeting of spring practice to the opening day of fall camp is an expressly noted NCAA violation?

The staff mishandled? WTF???

McCummings had access to all the same trainers and training regimen that every other athlete on this roster had from end of spring camp til weigh in day last week.

You guys will just find anything to bitch and complain about. The player is out with an injury. The funny thing, is that as much as the player contributed in the past 2 seasons, instead of focusing on how different our roster is, and how this player going down, would have been catastrophic at this point last year or a 2 years ago, it's really, almost no impact at all right now on our roster. And is really going to be a true test for the player, as to where his future lies, and I hope he embraces it, overcomes it, and is better off in the long run because of it. That's just one way to look at the situation.

I don't know who it was that was posting how psyched they were for the season lately. Positive energy. It feels god damn good that the season is up and running, and the positive outlook around here, seems to have lasted all of about 48 hours.

This is not day camp at the YMCA. We are gearing up to play Maryland, Michigan, Louisville, et. al.

Those of you that do have an inkling of medical knowledge, and an ounce of knowledge as to what goes into this sport, I believe know exactly what happened here. When you play football at the highest level of intensity and competition that there is, people get hurt and injured, and if you're not conditioned, it happens more often, and worse. It's part of the game.

The reality, is that if McCummings were in shape, and blew out an acchilles tendon, the red flags would go way up that he was juicing. But that's not the case.

Riding a bike to get in shape? Should have given him a special conditioning plan apart from the rest of the team? 4 weeks from opening day???? Showing up to training camp as a scholarship athlete, with the schedule we've got coming, and the coaching staff should put you on the bike, to get in shape? - while the rest of team is repping in practice.....? F(CK that.

The kid showed up out of shape, was asked to perform as a scholarship athlete, in activities that he most certainly did in the past (I cannot believe what I read here - the guy was a primary runner on offense) and almost immediately blew out a tendon. If I had a dime for every time something like that happens in football, especially for the gym warriors and juicers that don't condition right and natural, at any level of football, I'd be able to pay for the new scoreboard. It's actually more common for juicers to get an injury like this, but it's pretty safe to say that wasn't the case with this player.


I guarantee there are posters around here, that are just lying around and waiting to suck off the energy around here, at the first hint of any adversity in this season. I'm tired of it. Energy suckers. Check you later.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

You guys do know that any contact between player and coaching staff from the exit meeting of spring practice to the opening day of fall camp is an expressly noted NCAA violation?

The staff mishandled? WTF???

McCummings had access to all the same trainers and training regimen that every other athlete on this roster had from end of spring camp til weigh in day last week.

You guys will just find anything to bitch and complain about. The player is out with an injury. The funny thing, is that as much as the player contributed in the past 2 seasons, instead of focusing on how different our roster is, and how this player going down, would have been catastrophic at this point last year or a 2 years ago, it's really, almost no impact at all right now on our roster. And is really going to be a true test for the player, as to where his future lies, and I hope he embraces it, overcomes it, and is better off in the long run because of it. That's just one way to look at the situation.

I don't know who it was that was posting how psyched they were for the season lately. Positive energy. It feels god damn good that the season is up and running, and the positive outlook around here, seems to have lasted all of about 48 hours.

This is not day camp at the YMCA. We are gearing up to play Maryland, Michigan, Louisville, et. al.

Those of you that do have an inkling of medical knowledge, and an ounce of knowledge as to what goes into this sport, I believe know exactly what happened here. When you play football at the highest level of intensity and competition that there is, people get hurt and injured, and if you're not conditioned, it happens more often, and worse. It's part of the game.

The reality, is that if McCummings were in shape, and blew out an acchilles tendon, the red flags would go way up that he was juicing. But that's not the case.

Riding a bike to get in shape? Should have given him a special conditioning plan apart from the rest of the team? 4 weeks from opening day???? Showing up to training camp as a scholarship athlete, with the schedule we've got coming, and the coaching staff should put you on the bike, to get in shape? - while the rest of team is repping in practice.....? F(CK that.

The kid showed up out of shape, was asked to perform as a scholarship athlete, in activities that he most certainly did in the past (I cannot believe what I read here - the guy was a primary runner on offense) and almost immediately blew out a tendon. If I had a dime for every time something like that happens in football, especially for the gym warriors and juicers that don't condition right and natural, at any level of football, I'd be able to pay for the new scoreboard. It's actually more common for juicers to get an injury like this, but it's pretty safe to say that wasn't the case with this player.


I guarantee there are posters around here, that are just lying around and waiting to suck off the energy around here, at the first hint of any adversity in this season. I'm tired of it. Energy suckers. Check you later.

Seriously, will you stop with this nonsense?