McCummings Injured?

[pj]

Jesse Joseph tore his Achilles last year, so that's two in two years. Achilles strength is highly dependent on diet, athletes do stress their Achilles but with proper nourishment it should be strong enough. Athletes should be eating soups and stews made with joints, tendons, bones, and other collagen-rich foods; extra vitamin C and magnesium; sulfur-rich foods; and some other key foods and nutrients. I wonder if UConn athletics is overlooking some nutritional aspects of this.

Overuse can also be a contributor, WRs do a lot of running and if McCummings was out of shape that may have been a factor. They should have broached the WR idea in the spring and gotten him on a suitable workout regimen then so he was ready for camp.

 

[junglehusky]

Eh... I'm a little skeptical that eating collagen-rich foods or supplements helps your tendons / cartilage. I thought the stomach breaks down polypeptides / proteins into single amino acids, or maybe short peptides.

 

[huskymedic]

Jesse Joseph tore his Achilles last year, so that's two in two years. Achilles strength is highly dependent on diet, athletes do stress their Achilles but with proper nourishment it should be strong enough. Athletes should be eating soups and stews made with joints, tendons, bones, and other collagen-rich foods; extra vitamin C and magnesium; sulfur-rich foods; and some other key foods and nutrients. I wonder if UConn athletics is overlooking some nutritional aspects of this.

Overuse can also be a contributor, WRs do a lot of running and if McCummings was out of shape that may have been a factor. They should have broached the WR idea in the spring and gotten him on a suitable workout regimen then so he was ready for camp.

Got a link for that... News to me and I'd be interested in reading about that theory.

Achilles injuries are more often due to weak or tight calves that cause excess Achilles loading than anything else. A balanced diet rich in Vitamin C and E is always good for connective tissue but more oxtail soup isn't the answer as far as I know. It's more about conditioning than anything else.

 

[noeynox]

Got a link for that... News to me and I'd be interested in reading about that theory.

Achilles injuries are more often due to weak or tight calves that cause excess Achilles loading than anything else. A balanced diet is always good but more oxtail soup isn't the answer.

hmmnnn. I read his post as sarcasm.

 

[jdb50]

The thing with this injury is there is no doubt that you are done for the year. I was looking forward to SM trying to find a place with this switch in position. I hope he has a solid recovery and returns to the Huskies. Tough luck but he should get another year if he wants it and sitting out a year will give him time to figure out how much football means to him.

 

[huskymedic]

hmmnnn. I read his post as sarcasm.

Ummm maybe - but I've seen some strange homeopathic and home remedies over the years so you never know.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Unfortunate for Scott. While it is incorrect to draw a causation conclusion that his injury was caused by his physical conditioning, it's also completely wrong, to think that showing up 30lbs overweight to a division 1A football training camp, with the intensity level expected that I hope is there, for the schedule we are playing this fall, did not increase his chances of sustaining some kind of significant injury.

There is plenty of data to support that unconditioned athletes sustain higher incidence and severity of injury as compared to well conditioned athletes across all sports and sport specific conditioning/activity and there is also plenty of data that shows that major Achilles tendon injuries in football players (both American, and international futbol) occur during preseason and into the first month or so of a season after a layoff of continuous competition. Not all injuries happen in that time period, but a statistically significant amount do. Somebody made reference to Greek mythos. The tendon didn't earn that name for nothing. Powerful people blow out their Achilles tendons when they are involved in strenuous activity.

So, I'm not willing to go as far as to say that Scott blew his Achilles out running with the wideouts because he is 30lbs overweight, but I'm very comfortable saying that his risk of sustaining a major injury was way up, because of his conditioning.

Anyway - unfortunate, and no matter what, the kid now has a situation in front of him, that he's going to have to confront, and overcome and how he does it, will certainly determine without a doubt, if he ever has a roster spot again at UCONN.

Man down, another one needs to step in.

 

[pj]

No, it wasn't sarcasm, I was serious. I agree with huskymedic that lack of conditioning was probably the major issue, that's why I raised the issue of making the switch in the spring rather than the first day of camp. But diet matters too. For example, occult infections can severely deplete vitamin C; lack of vitamin C prevents collagen synthesis, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6265920, and collagen is 91% of the Achilles tendon by mass. Tissues are always turning over and being degraded, so continual re-synthesis is needed to maintain tendon strength. These are simple matters to monitor but if they're not done, it's easy for 1 out of 85 players per year to have a severe C deficiency. Tight calves as huskymedic says increase the stress on the tendon. Tired and stiff muscles change the gait in ways that further increase stress. A weakened tendon can easily break.

 

[pj]

Eh... I'm a little skeptical that eating collagen-rich foods or supplements helps your tendons / cartilage. I thought the stomach breaks down polypeptides / proteins into single amino acids, or maybe short peptides.

Collagen has an unusual amino acid mix and tendon matrix is rich in glycosaminoglycans and sulfate moieties which are also provided in cooked tendon.

 

[Husky68]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

 

[bmayuc]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

Based on your expert hackery from reading a website, that must be it.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[huskynation]

Per Achillestendon.com

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

This definitely makes sense. Switching to a new new position, especially from qb to wr when the player has never played the position in his life carries increased risks. The unfamiliar movements and lack of muscle memory, probably even incorrect technique helped to increase risk of injury. Now combine that with fatigue and being overweight pushes the risk up further.

I know hindsight is 20/20. However, For SM to come in at 257 (30+ pounds heavier than his playing weight) and to suddenly switch to WR and go 110 percent, at full pace with the other WRs who have been conditioning and training all offseason ( working on their , footwork and explosiveness) is a recipe for disaster. CB and WR are very tough positions to play they require sudden and drastic changes in direction, o to 100 stop and go acceleration. when you are completely out of shape definitely is not a good idea. I understand that SM is 20 years old however, maybe it would have been better for him to have been riding the bike and doing other conditioning to first get his weight down before slowly acclimating to the new position. I know the NFL has a conditioning test that players have to pass, shouldn't college have something similar? SM looked very overweight in spring practice, bloated in fact, so for him to gain another 17 pounds on top of that and then suddenly have to keep up with the training camp regimen of a wideout would have been quite some achievement.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Collagen has an unusual amino acid mix and tendon matrix is rich in glycosaminoglycans and sulfate moieties which are also provided in cooked tendon.

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

 

[J187Money]

This isn't going to help his weight. Hope he recovers and gets back into playing shape.

 

[huskyblooz]

Best of luck on Scott's recovery. Seems like a coachable kid.

 

[Palatine]

Per Achillestendon.com

"Partial and full Achilles tendon ruptures are most likely to occur in sports requiring sudden stretching, such as sprinting and racquet sports. Partial Achilles tendon tears are also common among middle and long distance runners. Achilles tendon ruptures can happen to anyone, but are most likely to occur to middle age athletes who have not been training or who have been doing relatively little training." (my underlining)

Seems like doing little training (implied by 257 lb weight) and the new movements of WR position (sudden) would have put SM in a more likely Achilles injury class than if he was a 215 lb kid continuing to try to master the QB position (less sudden stretching).

Yep, or it could be genetic. Or he just twisted it wrong. Or he didn't warm up enough or too much. No one will ever know.

 

[Chin Diesel]

As long as everyone is speculating, accusing or piling on, I hope the coaching and conditioning staff already has or has planned a meeting to go over every aspect of what led up to the injury.

Everyone from the football coaches, strength/conditioning coaches and nutrionists should be involved and they need to be open and frank with each other.

We know the football coaches were pisssed off with his off-season conditioning for the second season in a row.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Before this turns into something crazy discussion.

McCummings could have blown out an Acchilles backpedaling in a throwing a drill and planting his foot. (I'm 99% sure that Marino and Testaverde blew out their Acchiles on a drop back and plant).

Saying that the coaches making him run with WR's caused this is completely unfounded. Jesse Joseph blew out his acchilles on a normal pass rush against Maryland, in the first month of the season last year. No different forces, etc. Again, drawing a conclusion that different forces etc, caused this - wrong. (Joseph'sand McCummings injury completely consistent with the highest risk time frame for injury though (pre-season, early season)

Bottom line is that a scholarship athlete showed up to camp, with a schedule coming up that rivals any other schedule in the country for division 1A difficulty, and he showed up to work, 30lbs overweight, and that means totally unconditioned.

Making him ride the bike instead of practice? Holy shiiiite. This isn't day camp at the YMCA.

He showed up unconditioned, for a highly, highly intense physical activity with risks involved, and he sustained a non-contact injury, that ended his season. Did one cause the other? No. But it's a correlation for sure. Causation and correlation - that's something that college level education should be able to differentiate and understand.

These types of things happen in football, and it should be a lesson to everyone on that roster. You want to compete and be healthy in this game? Be in shape.

 

[junglehusky]

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

So there's a protein called collagen that's in your tendons and cartillage. It's an extracellular protein which means it's synthesized inside a cell, and then secreted / deposited outside the cell. Proteins are a string of chemical building blocks called amino acids. So, the question is if you eat things like soup made with bones, that has lots of animal collagen, or take supplements, if that would help your joint health. I was being skeptical of that claim, by saying that your digestive system is going to break down that beef or chicken collagen into amino acids, so it's not like your body can take the chicken collagen, transport it to your knee or wherever, and incorporate it into your body next to your human collagen. Medic countered that by saying that the chemical composition of the amino acids in collagen is different than that of other proteins, so it might still be beneficial to have some of those rare amino acids (building blocks) even if your stomach is breaking them down into individual amino acids. (Some amino acids can be made by your cells, others can't and have to be eaten in your diet). The other thing he was talking about was sugars that decorate the outside of collagen and other proteins especially extracellular proteins in joints.

 

[Srqhusky]

Just take glucosamine. Unless u like tendons

 

[huskymedic]

For most of us, Swahili might be easier to understand. English for Dimwits translation? Whatever it means, someone on the home front likely suggested to eat more or less of it - whichever option may be healthier.

Just wander down to your local Asian eatery of choice (Vietnamese, Chinese or Japanese) and get you some beef tendon soup and have @ it. You are what you eat.

 

[Carl Spackler]

So there's a protein called collagen that's in your tendons and cartillage. It's an extracellular protein which means it's synthesized inside a cell, and then secreted / deposited outside the cell. Proteins are a string of chemical building blocks called amino acids. So, the question is if you eat things like soup made with bones, that has lots of animal collagen, or take supplements, if that would help your joint health. I was being skeptical of that claim, by saying that your digestive system is going to break down that beef or chicken collagen into amino acids, so it's not like your body can take the chicken collagen, transport it to your knee or wherever, and incorporate it into your body next to your human collagen. Medic countered that by saying that the chemical composition of the amino acids in collagen is different than that of other proteins, so it might still be beneficial to have some of those rare amino acids (building blocks) even if your stomach is breaking them down into individual amino acids. (Some amino acids can be made by your cells, others can't and have to be eaten in your diet). The other thing he was talking about was sugars that decorate the outside of collagen and other proteins especially extracellular proteins in joints.

None of this matters, unless a supplement being ingested (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) or a natural food product (a good pig's feet stew) makes it past the stomach. It either needs to be enterically coated with something that will get it through the stomach and into the intestine, or be consumed in high enough volume, that some of it makes it through the stomach without being broken down in to basic protein chains and amino acids. If it doesn't make it past the stomach intact, it's no different than eating a pile of buffalo wings once the proteins and amino acids make it to the intestines.

The mechanism by which collagen building blocks make it to the cartilaginous parts of the joints in the human body is unknown, but there is plenty of research to show that when you take these kinds of supplements in mega doses, for long periods of time, a significant amount of people (not all) will show improvement in their articular cartilage composition. That's just articular cartilage though.

I am completely unaware of any research that shows that supplementation with basic collagen building blocks improves tendon composition.

The primary mechanism by which tendons rupture, is more neurologic than muscle or tendon physiology IMNSHO. You're looking at the interaction of muscle spindles in parallel with muscle fibers in a relation to the types of spinal cord mediated reflexes that occur with the receptors of GTO's in series with collagen fibers and muscle fibers at the myotendinous junction.

And physical exercise and activity, creates changes over time in how those spindles and GTO's interact as compared to people that are inactive.

If we're going to get all medical about it.

 

[BlueMAB]

When has SM been used as a drop back passer? Whether he was lined up at WR or QB, he was going to plant and run. At QB he'd take the snap and run, at WR he'd run off the snap.

He's closer to Tim Tebow than Tom Brady, can we stop pretending he was never asked to run until he got hurt?

 

[J187Money]

When has SM been used as a drop back passer? Whether he was lined up at WR or QB, he was going to plant and run. At QB he'd take the snap and run, at WR he'd run off the snap.

He's closer to Tim Tebow than Tom Brady, can we stop pretending he was never asked to run until he got hurt?

It's different when you run slowly into the back of a crumbling line and lose a yard.

 

[Waquoit]

Before this turns into something crazy discussion...

Saying that the coaches making him run with WR's caused this is completely unfounded.

You're the voice of reason? Completely unfounded? I think it's totally founded. I agree with Chin. This was a decision that couldn't be made in the spring?