May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II | Page 45 | The Boneyard

May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II

Status
Not open for further replies.
bbsamjj said:
The Griner/EDD/Diggins class of 2013 will always be up there, though Diggins was pretty shaky as a rookie before she exploded her second year.

2019 might end up being one of deepest and best draft classes ever (J. Young, McCowan, Arike, Collier, A. Smith, B. Turner, Ezi, KLS in first round; Mabrey, Hiedeman, Carleton, Cunningham in second)--though only Collier, Arike, McCowan were real standouts as rookies.

2008 you had Parker/Fowles 1-2, with Langhorne, Carson, in first round along with other folks who hung around in league for a while. There will (likely) never be another rookie who wins MVP like Parker did.

I might actually give nod to 2006. In top 6 you had Augustus (22pg, 3.8rpg), Pondexter (19.5ppg, 3rpg, 3apg), Currie (10ppg, 4rpg), Sophia Young (12ppg, 7.6rpg), Candice Dupree (13.7ppg, 5.5rpg). (that's 3 of the top 15 all time WNBA Scorers in one draft class).
Expand ...
The 2006 class is often overlooked since all were arguably overshadowed by other legendary players (Augustus overshadowed by Maya Moore, Pondexter by Taurasi, Young's career was relatively short, and Dupree was almost always a 2nd or 3rd option). Insanely top heavy production for a rookie class though that likely will never be matched.


2008 might take the cake though. To expand you had:
#1 Candace Parker- league MVP as a rookie
#2 Sylvia Fowles- only played half of her rookie year, averaged 10.5/7.5 though. Future league MVP.
#3 Candice Wiggins- 15.7 ppg, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals
#4 Alexis Hornbuckle- major role player for the championship team, led league in steals as a rookie
#5 Matee Ajavon- 8 ppg as a rookie,
#6 Crystal Langhorne- future WNBA All Star and 2nd Team All-WNBA player
#7 Essence Carson-6.6 ppg, future WNBA All Star
#8 Tamera Young-7.3 ppg, 13 year WNBA career
#9 Amber Holt- 6.5 ppg as a rookie
#10 Laura Harper- 5.5 points, 4.0 rebounds as a rookie
#11 Tasha Humphrey- 7.3 ppg as a rookie
#13 LaToya Pringle- future double digit scorer and starter on championship team
#14 Erlana Larkins- 10 year WNBA career, almost averaged a double double in 2014
#15 Shannon Bobbitt- started 17 games as a rookie, averaged 4.1 points, 3.5 assists, was only 5-2
#16 Nicky Anosike - 9.2 points, 6.8 rebounds and 2nd in league in steals as a rookie, future All Star
#22 Allie Quigley - future 3x All Star
#24 Leilani Mitchell - 13 year WNBA career, 2x WNBA Most Improved Player
#30 Charde Houston - 8.8 points as rookie, future WNBA All Star
#31 Crystal Kelly - 7.4 points, 3.3 rebounds as a rookie
 
The deacon said:
Truly, azfan!

GirlBoo, wouldn't you think 'filling up the stat sheet' is a good thing? After all, points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks all tend to help one's team, right? Caitlin brings all of that to her team.
Expand ...
I didn't say filling out the stat sheet is a bad thing but I think people put too much emphasis on it. Especially when it comes to defense and rebounding. An undisciplined defender can rack up a lot of steals and blocks because they over rotate and cheat and the box score will track their successes but won't account for the multitude of wide open lay ups and threes they might have given up for 2 steals and 3 blocks. Not saying that is who Clark is defensively but just an example of why I think the box score is A tool in evaluating a player but not the end all be all fans and the media make it out to be.

A lot of the greatest defenders in the WNBA don't get acknowledged or credit because why they do doesn't show up on the stat sheet.
 
GirlBoo1020 said:
I didn't say filling out the stat sheet is a bad thing but I think people put too much emphasis on it. Especially when it comes to defense and rebounding. An undisciplined defender can rack up a lot of steals and blocks because they over rotate and cheat and the box score will track their successes but won't account for the multitude of wide open lay ups and threes they might have given up for 2 steals and 3 blocks. Not saying that is who Clark is defensively but just an example of why I think the box score is A tool in evaluating a player but not the end all be all fans and the media make it out to be.

A lot of the greatest defenders in the WNBA don't get acknowledged or credit because why they do doesn't show up on the stat sheet.
Expand ...
From what I've seen, Clark is an average defender. She is not very good at keeping her man in front of her and she is a step too slow on closing out. But she is very opportunistic and has a great feel for help-side defense. It's usually in those situations where she racks up her steals and blocks. Like she'll sneak in and take the ball away from a post player from behind.

She was a liability on defense in this past game against the Mystics. They were isolating her on one side and abusing that matchup. Most of her steals and blocks came in the 4th quarter when they were down by 20 points and needed to take those chances to catch up.
 
GoChips20 said:
I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts on the ROY race. I’m incredibly impressed by Reese and am surprised by how well her game has translated, but I just can’t think there’s a coach or GM beyond the Sky that would take her over Clark. The double-double streak is remarkable though and she definitely has earned her place as a frontrunner in the discussion.

Clark is still figuring things out and it’s a harder transition for guards, but her stats are terrific and improving game by game. She needs to be more consistently engaged on defense but I’ve always thought she had the tools and IQ to eventually be a positive on that end and we’re starting to see it — she’s regularly blocking and stealing the ball.

I would vote Clark and I do think in the end it’ll go to Clark, but again I’m shocked this has been so competitive and think it bodes well for the league.
Expand ...
Angel has been very impressive, and the pick is working well for Chicago. I think overall the ROY race will be close. Both Clark and Reese are doing relatively well for their teams and putting up decent numbers. If the ROY stays close, like it is now, I can see where the W might pull a Jason Kidd/Grant Hill Co-ROY moment.
 
Honest question: is Reese a good defender? I've never been aware of her having a reputation for being that.

Sky got thumped by Liberty today. She got her daily double double, but 5-17 shooting? She scored 10. Stewie and JJ had 19 and 18. I see some people killing Clark for getting scored on, how many points has Angel given up this year?

edit--it was close thru 3 quarters but NY ran away in Q4 outscoring them 28-14.
 
.-.
nwhoopfan said:
Honest question: is Reese a good defender? I've never been aware of her having a reputation for being that.

Sky got thumped by Liberty today. She got her daily double double, but 5-17 shooting? She scored 10. Stewie and JJ had 19 and 18. I see some people killing Clark for getting scored on, how many points has Angel given up this year?

edit--it was close thru 3 quarters but NY ran away in Q4 outscoring them 28-14.
Expand ...
Reese was a very good defender in college. A lot of her value was her ability to guard smaller players as a big. She helped cover up LSU's deficiencies on that end to a good degree. In fact, I'd say she's always been more of a defensive player than offensive. Though this weakness has always been mitigated by her elite crashing on O glass.

I haven't watched a ton of the Sky this yr, but seems like finishing at the rim is still an issue. I wonder how much of the 5-17 today was chucking to extend the streak...
 
12au said:
Reese was a very good defender in college. A lot of her value was her ability to guard smaller players as a big. She helped cover up LSU's deficiencies on that end to a good degree. In fact, I'd say she's always been more of a defensive player than offensive. Though this weakness has always been mitigated by her elite crashing on O glass.

I haven't watched a ton of the Sky this yr, but seems like finishing at the rim is still an issue. I wonder how much of the 5-17 today was chucking to extend the streak...
Expand ...
She definitely wasn’t chucking to extend the streak imo. She just kept getting blocked by Stewie and JJ and would go up with the rebound and get blocked again. They were both giving a bit more effort on the defensive end then they did the last two times Chicago played. I think on the possessions she scored a lot of them were on the third or fourth shot attempt around the rim.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Honest question: is Reese a good defender? I've never been aware of her having a reputation for being that.

Sky got thumped by Liberty today. She got her daily double double, but 5-17 shooting? She scored 10. Stewie and JJ had 19 and 18. I see some people killing Clark for getting scored on, how many points has Angel given up this year?

edit--it was close thru 3 quarters but NY ran away in Q4 outscoring them 28-14.
Expand ...
She's been known for her defence from what I remember during college. Like 12au noted, her ability to defend outside the paint has been something she's been known for. It's also been showing up in her play since joining the WNBA. There have been several highlights where her length caused turnovers both in the paint and outside the key.
 
Angel's mechanics (shooting form, jumping) are not particularly pleasurable to watch as a fan.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Honest question: is Reese a good defender? I've never been aware of her having a reputation for being that.

Sky got thumped by Liberty today. She got her daily double double, but 5-17 shooting? She scored 10. Stewie and JJ had 19 and 18. I see some people killing Clark for getting scored on, how many points has Angel given up this year?

edit--it was close thru 3 quarters but NY ran away in Q4 outscoring them 28-14.
Expand ...
Yup. 63-62 for Liberty through 3 and then the bottom dropped out.
  • Jonquel Jones had a very effective game, scoring 18, grabbing 13 rebounds and blocking 4 shots; one or two of them from the weakside.
  • Ionescu started 0-7, but finished 7-10.
For the Sky to keep in close through three:
  • Izzy Harrison was uber-effective off the bench, racking up a dozen points and rebounds.
  • Mabrey broke out of a protracted shooting slump by going 4-5 from three and 5-9 overall, along with six assists.
  • Carter's volume is inching up, but she still shot 10-21. In the 4th, Stewie and Jones were stepping out on her.

Chicago can get into a turnover funk when the frontcourt stops moving. A team like the Liberty can clog lanes and overplay passing lanes. While they do try to free up Mabrey and Carter, there is virtually no small-forward option. Mabrey, Lindsay Allen and Carter all had 5+ assists, so the will is there....just got to work on the way.

As per defense: Reese is a willing and adept collegiate defender who is making her way into the pro's. Not having Elizabeth Williams has hurt the Sky interior.
 
Dillon77 said:
Yup. 63-62 for Liberty through 3 and then the bottom dropped out.
  • Jonquel Jones had a very effective game, scoring 18, grabbing 13 rebounds and blocking 4 shots; one or two of them from the weakside.
  • Ionescu started 0-7, but finished 7-10.
For the Sky to keep in close through three:
  • Izzy Harrison was uber-effective off the bench, racking up a dozen points and rebounds.
  • Mabrey broke out of a protracted shooting slump by going 4-5 from three and 5-9 overall, along with six assists.
  • Carter's volume is inching up, but she still shot 10-21. In the 4th, Stewie and Jones were stepping out on her.

Chicago can get into a turnover funk when the frontcourt stops moving. A team like the Liberty can clog lanes and overplay passing lanes. While they do try to free up Mabrey and Carter, there is virtually no small-forward option. Mabrey, Lindsay Allen and Carter all had 5+ assists, so the will is there....just got to work on the way.

As per defense: Reese is a willing and adept collegiate defender who is making her way into the pro's. Not having Elizabeth Williams has hurt the Sky interior.
Expand ...

Agreed. Was looking forward to seeing her play along with Reese and Cardoso this season.
 
.-.
12au said:
Reese was a very good defender in college. A lot of her value was her ability to guard smaller players as a big. She helped cover up LSU's deficiencies on that end to a good degree. In fact, I'd say she's always been more of a defensive player than offensive. Though this weakness has always been mitigated by her elite crashing on O glass.

I haven't watched a ton of the Sky this yr, but seems like finishing at the rim is still an issue. I wonder how much of the 5-17 today was chucking to extend the streak...
Expand ...
One aspect of her game that is exploited at this level is her shooting motion. She shoots from her hip, or attempts to go through a defender. She doesn’t have the size advantage in the W, so she gets blocked a ton. Quickly going through the play by play, she was blocked 5 times yesterday. So she shot 5-17, 5 of her 12 misses were blocked attempts. I think that’s why her efficiency isn’t totally great. Plus some wild attempts of course!


Edit: wnba stats show she’s been blocked 50 times in 22 games.
 
Last edited:
12au said:
Reese was a very good defender in college. A lot of her value was her ability to guard smaller players as a big. She helped cover up LSU's deficiencies on that end to a good degree. In fact, I'd say she's always been more of a defensive player than offensive. Though this weakness has always been mitigated by her elite crashing on O glass.

I haven't watched a ton of the Sky this yr, but seems like finishing at the rim is still an issue. I wonder how much of the 5-17 today was chucking to extend the streak...
Expand ...

She’s also playing against better and stronger players
 
Rb335 said:
One aspect of her game that is exploited at this level is her shooting motion. She shoots from her hip, or attempts to go through a defender. She doesn’t have the size advantage in the W, so she gets blocked a ton. Quickly going through the play by play, she was blocked 5 times yesterday. So she shot 5-17, 5 of her 12 misses were blocked attempts. I think that’s why her efficiency isn’t totally great. Plus some wild attempts of course!


Edit: wnba stats show she’s been blocked 50 times in 22 games.
Expand ...
Perhaps another category in which she in the WNBA leader.
 
.-.


Missed the news Taylor was picked up by the Mercury. Hopefully she'll get some opportunities to play with Cloud being out tonight.
 
An interesting game in Indianapolis as both DT and Cloud will be sitting. I'm imagining that Clark and Mitchell are salivating.

If the Merc are to overcome their woes on the road Sophie and Becca will have to have very big games this afternoon.
 
Merc got as close to 4. Copper and Cunningham led the charge. Ran out of gas, Fever win by 9.

Caitlin has tied the franchise record for assists w/ 13 3 times this season. She had several chances that should've broke the record, but teammates kept missing makeable shots. She's also about to catch up to A. Thomas for the lead league in assists.
 
.-.
nwhoopfan said:
Merc got as close to 4. Copper and Cunningham led the charge. Ran out of gas, Fever win by 9.

Caitlin has tied the franchise record for assists w/ 13 3 times this season. She had several chances that should've broke the record, but teammates kept missing makeable shots. She's also about to catch up to A. Thomas for the lead league in assists.
Expand ...
I wonder what DT was thinking as she watched Caitlin pick apart her (admittedly depleted) teammates. Could be, 'oh, i wish I were 22 again,' or, 'perhaps I underestimated Clark?'
 
The deacon said:
I wonder what DT was thinking as she watched Caitlin pick apart her (admittedly depleted) teammates. Could be, 'oh, i wish I were 22 again,' or, 'perhaps I underestimated Clark?'
Expand ...
Probably just worried about whether BG’s Olympic dream just killed by Lexi Hull’s out of control play.
 
hoopsnloops32 said:
Probably just worried about whether BG’s Olympic dream just killed by Lexi Hull’s out of control play.
Expand ...
Wow. You need to watch that part of the game again. Lexie was going for the ball; it was Griner's own Mercury player (Copper) who collided with Griner in that play. I did not see any contact between Hull and BG, except perhaps their hands reaching for the long rebound.
 
The deacon said:
I wonder what DT was thinking as she watched Caitlin pick apart her (admittedly depleted) teammates. Could be, 'oh, i wish I were 22 again,' or, 'perhaps I underestimated Clark?'
Expand ...
I don't believe DT ever estimated Clark. Her famous overanalyzed comment was only 'that Clark would face a tough adjustment in W going against grown women every night instead of 18 yr olds'.

That was true, meanwhile Clark has adjusted and now playing better, but she did struggle early against tough defense.

When you stop to think about it, each wnba team is better than every ncaa team, and all but about 5 Olympic teams.

By the way amazing that the Fever just gave up 27 points of a one time 31 points lead.
 
GamecockFam said:
Odd take considering it was Copper who ran into Griner.
Expand ...
That’s not what I saw or what any media platform is reporting.

"Brittney Griner was down and in a lot of pain after she collided with Lexie Hull. She limped off the court, grabbing her right upper thigh, and sat on the bench with a trainer. She is now going back to the locker room, still limping heavily," Peterson reported on X, formerly Twitter.


Hull and Copper are like twins though so this mix up is common.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,225
Messages
4,558,121
Members
10,443
Latest member
StatsMan


Top Bottom