Maryland to Big10 Getting Some Legs

[uconNYC]

It's literal in the sense that the whole contiguous thing is written in their written down super duper official B1G bylaws. In that sense, it definitely isn't figurative.

I knew that. I just don't feel it is sacrosanct.

 

[ZooCougar]

I knew that. I just don't feel it is sacrosanct.

It probably could be rewritten. I don't think the are liking UConn enough to do that. It would be something if they took Maryland, Rutgers, UConn and Syracuse in one fell swoop.

 

[gars44]

Wetzel nails it... This move doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-s--rutgers--potential-move-to-big-ten-looms-as-risky-gamble-for-conference-17501209.html;_ylt=AqLPwQuBLdQcjkgU9vXK.6ILcykA;_ylu=X3oDMTFoZnA0Y2I3BG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dGhvcgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXg-;_ylg=X3oDMTFrODdzYXZuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3[/quote]

Zooman, I think it makes as much sense as any other move made in the last 10 years. It's always been about money, which means facilities, coaches salaries, basic solvency, supporting other atheletic programs, name recognition . . . . Why not grab the eastern seaboard from DC to NYC when #1: it doesnt cost you anything, and #2, you actually turn a profit on the deal? The long term profitability of this move could range anywhere from small to gigantic, but no way does this move lose you money. Why not?

 

[ZooCougar]

Brand dilution. Possibly diluting the payout.

The first expansion moves made sense, but they have gotten progressively less sensible. They are making very meager gains at this point.

 

[gars44]

Brand dilution. Possibly diluting the payout.

The first expansion moves made sense, but they have gotten progressively less sensible. They are making very meager gains at this point.

That's what I'm saying, I don't think you dilute the payout with this move. In fact, let me clarify: Delaney is such a money hog that I'm sure it has been studied to death, and they are going to make a lot of money. How much? Look at the demographics. A lot. More rubies than can be carried on the backs of one thousand camels!

 

[ctchamps]

I agree. This is a good money move. Also strategically it puts pressure on ND to reconsider its affiliation with the ACC. If the first domino falls, Maryland approves the switch, things get interesting. Rutgers will follow without hesitation.

The question does Delany try to court ND again or does he begin the process of destroying two conferences by courting Virginia (not a given to change conferences) and UConn who is already in Delaney pants?

If Maryland and Virginia both go to the Big10 then expect to see more defections from the ACC. This would be the final phase of creating the four super conferences.

 

[junglehusky]

Well on one hand if the contiguous rule is an actual rule they're going to follow, it would mean they won't go after UNC or Georgia Tech... UVA OTOH would be contiguous with MD. I'm only saying this because of the possibility noted by Frank the Tank and others that the Big Ten might take an even number of ACC schools, and the ACC might decide to sit pat and UConn is duck*ed. But I would guess the ACC would still want to add UConn since their ESPN contract stipulates 14 schools.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Well on one hand if the contiguous rule is an actual rule......

It's more a guideline.

 

[junglehusky]

Ooooh... don't tell the rutties -

Frank the Tank ‏@frankthetank111
Hmmm RT @insidemdsports: #Rutgers is getting most play (along w/ Maryland) but multiple sources say #GeorgiaTech is vying for Big 10 spot

If that happens, does the ACC invite both UConn and Rutgers?

 

[whaler11]

Ooooh... don't tell the rutties -



If that happens, does the ACC invite both UConn and Rutgers?

Don't tell us. That's awful for UConn. They can stay at 12.

 

[Dann]

Don't tell us. That's awful for UConn. They can stay at 12.

i dont think so. the acc contract stays as is if they can keep 14 teams plus nd for other. if the acc wants to keep that they need to add to get back to 14 wether its 1 or 2 schools. if they choose to not add teams to get back to 14, then espn has the right to reopen the contract and pay less i asume. the acc would be stupid to not add right away from a $$ standpoint. but then again i can care less as i want tht conf to go down in flames.

 

[Adios]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/marylands-nears-decision-move-big-ten-17754075

 

[Excalibur]

It's literal in the sense that the whole contiguous thing is written in their written down super duper official B1G bylaws. In that sense, it definitely isn't figurative.

It's not in the by-laws. Pretty sure that's a myth that was dispelled last year

 

[UC990411]

Don't tell us. That's awful for UConn. They can stay at 12.

So you'd rather be in the NNBE instead of in a conference with duke, UNC, FSU, Va Tech, BC, Clemson, Cuse, Pitt, Wake, Miami, etc? Even if 75% of those schools left its still a better land to be in then where we are now

 

[Nostical]

What we'll know in another few weeks is whether they accomplished what they wanted to...not just if they were doing their job

Rest assured they are doing their jobs--very well I might add.

 

[whaler11]

i dont think so. the acc contract stays as is if they can keep 14 teams plus nd for other. if the acc wants to keep that they need to add to get back to 14 wether its 1 or 2 schools. if they choose to not add teams to get back to 14, then espn has the right to reopen the contract and pay less i asume. the acc would be stupid to not add right away from a $$ standpoint. but then again i can care less as i want tht conf to go down in flames.

You want it to go down in flames. Some of us see it as our most likely option. Maybe you are right and they go back to 14, but I'd rather not have to wait that decision out because Florida State doesn't want UConn.

 

[whaler11]

So you'd rather be in the NNBE instead of in a conference with duke, UNC, FSU, Va Tech, BC, Clemson, Cuse, Pitt, Wake, Miami, etc? Even if 75% of those schools left its still a better land to be in then where we are now

No quite the opposite. If Georgia Tech leaves the ACC could stay at 12 leaving us in the Big East.

 

[ZooCougar]

No quite the opposite. If Georgia Tech leaves the ACC could stay at 12 leaving us in the Big East.

I think they want to be at 14. ESPN is paying them for 14/content.

 

[Dann]

You want it to go down in flames. Some of us see it as our most likely option. Maybe you are right and they go back to 14, but I'd rather not have to wait that decision out because Florida State doesn't want UConn.

yes i want flames when the time comes. eventually we are going to have 4 big boy confs with 16-20 teams per. each division of those 4 confs will get a playoff bid basically with 1st round of bcs playoffs being conf ship games. this is the super 64 to 80 teams breaking away in fball from the rest basically. the acc will not be in that.

i completely agree that right now we take a acc invite and go. but we dont go and be happy and go to sleep at night. we go with 1 thing in mind and thats to get this school to the next level(b10). we all know we would take a b10 invite and say yes asap. in the end of the acc years down the road, 2-4 private schools will be left out of the new power 4 in the end.

i can easily see this, its a mix of several things includings adding big markets, big fanbases with national apeal in markets, protecting turfs and betting on potentials.
b10+unc/uva/nd/uconn. you lock up several major markets and force nd with the conf being the best fit. you also kill off several privates competition wise.
sec+vt/ncst/fsu/clem. you get your new markets and you in the end protect valueable turf from b12. fsu and clem are worth enough to not hurt your wallet
b12+miami/pitt/gt/lville/cincy/usf/uh/wake or duke or cuse..you fill in to get to 18. basically take uh for market after atm left and then fill in a eastern division around wvu.
pac+byu/bsu/sdsu/unr...unlv/haw or others. you come to senses that byu for a tv grab viewer wise just is dumb to string along and not do, bsu is clearly the school on the rise. sdsu is a good market and upcomer. need to touch nevada. then 17 and 18 can be argued for ever. from davis to unlv who knows who cares as long as were already all set...

 

[whaler11]

yes i want flames when the time comes. eventually we are going to have 4 big boy confs with 16-20 teams per. each division of those 4 confs will get a playoff bid basically with 1st round of bcs playoffs being conf ship games. this is the super 64 to 80 teams breaking away in fball from the rest basically. the acc will not be in that.

i completely agree that right now we take a acc invite and go. but we dont go and be happy and go to sleep at night. we go with 1 thing in mind and thats to get this school to the next level(b10). we all know we would take a b10 invite and say yes asap. in the end of the acc years down the road, 2-4 private schools will be left out of the new power 4 in the end.

i can easily see this, its a mix of several things includings adding big markets, big fanbases with national apeal in markets, protecting turfs and betting on potentials.
b10+unc/uva/nd/uconn. you lock up several major markets and force nd with the conf being the best fit. you also kill off several privates competition wise.
sec+vt/ncst/fsu/clem. you get your new markets and you in the end protect valueable turf from b12. fsu and clem are worth enough to not hurt your wallet
b12+miami/pitt/gt/lville/cincy/usf/uh/wake or duke or cuse..you fill in to get to 18. basically take uh for market after atm left and then fill in a eastern division around wvu.
pac+byu/bsu/sdsu/unr...unlv/haw or others. you come to senses that byu for a tv grab viewer wise just is dumb to string along and not do, bsu is clearly the school on the rise. sdsu is a good market and upcomer. need to touch nevada. then 17 and 18 can be argued for ever. from davis to unlv who knows who cares as long as were already all set...

I can see 4 leagues with 16 teams - it's not that simple though. The people who run the schools do care about the appearance of being concerned with academics. The PAC-12's geography makes it tough for them to get to 16. As long as Texas isn't interested in joining there aren't schools for them to add. The Big 12 can't even find two suitable teams to get to 12 yet - maybe Maryland's departure changes the stance of Florida State - but I really don't see why.

As for some of your suggestions, I don't see why the Big 10 would want UConn without Rutgers. They would seem to be more valuable together than separate. Throw in the fact it looks like at least Maryland and either Georgia Tech or Rutgers is getting them to 14 this week. UNC is the king of the ACC. Trying to get them to leave is asking the Queen of England to depart for Spain for a few million dollars but instead of Queen it's to be a commoner. I don't see UNC going anywhere unless there were mass departures from the ACC and they had to make a move to survive.

Not sure why the SEC would want the secondary team from Florida and South Carolina. VPI and NCSU make sense in theory - and certainly there are people in both fanbases who think they should band together. I think that ignores the politics of a move - it isn't all that easy for NCSU or VPI to do things that would harm UNC and UVA.

BYU could join a league whenever they want. They care more about pushing their religion internationally than they do what conference they are in. The rest of the Pac 12 schools are never going to accept Boise or San Diego State or UNLV as full members. Hawaii is a nightmare - they bring nothing and add a ton in travel costs. No market, games are in the middle of the night, no one can recruit there.
Davis? UC-Davis playing Pac 12 football and basketball?

 

[whaler11]

I think they want to be at 14. ESPN is paying them for 14/content.

So you just pay the same per team rake for 12. If you don't have two schools you think are at least average in terms of television value why would you pay for 14 just for the sake of paying for 14.

 

[ZooCougar]

So you just pay the same per team rake for 12. If you don't have two schools you think are at least average in terms of television value why would you pay for 14 just for the sake of paying for 14.

It's probably not that simple. ESPN might see it as purchasing a number of games. It boils down to less games and they need to plug the hole with something.

Look, if they didn't want 14 then why did they go to 14 in the first place?

 

[businesslawyer]

So you just pay the same per team rake for 12. If you don't have two schools you think are at least average in terms of television value why would you pay for 14 just for the sake of paying for 14.

Because the Commissioners make more money if total revenue goes up regardless of the per school split. And if you don't think that is a large part of what is driving the bus with expansion, you've never worked with "non-profit" organizations.

 

[whaler11]

Because the Commissioners make more money if total revenue goes up regardless of the per school split. And if you don't think that is a large part of what is driving the bus with expansion, you've never worked with "non-profit" organizations.

Oh I don't doubt that - but the ACC office takes a full share - so if the rake is the same at 12 or 14 don't they get the same amount?

 

[businesslawyer]

Oh I don't doubt that - but the ACC office takes a full share - so if the rake is the same at 12 or 14 don't they get the same amount?

I think one of the details of the new BCS plan is that the major conferences are getting their shares based on numbers of teams. And certainly TV money goes up as you add teams.

 

[whaler11]

It's probably not that simple. ESPN might see it as purchasing a number of games. It boils down to less games and they need to plug the hole with something.

Look, if they didn't want 14 then why did they go to 14 in the first place?

Yeah maybe it's not that simple. But if say UConn or Rutgers or Louisville or USF wasn't available - and they had to choose between schools clearly below that level like ECU or Memphis or Temple would they still do it?

 

[whaler11]

I think one of the details of the new BCS plan is that the major conferences are getting their shares based on numbers of teams. And certainly TV money goes up as you add teams.

From the bowl payments? I was under the impression that the ACC office specifically was funded with an equal share that each school gets. Maybe that is changing, but I don't see the connection to the BCS/Playoff.

 

[UConnDan97]

I can see 4 leagues with 16 teams - it's not that simple though.

I agree, it certainly wouldn't be that simple. There are going to be a fair amount of decent football schools on the outside looking in, and I'm not sure that the BYU's of the world make the cut if they were to continue to play hard ball. Here's how I look at it:

Big10, Pac12, Big12, SEC are the four "controlling" conferences. They currently have 46 combined members. If they were to go to a combined 64 schools (16 each), then that means there are 18 slots left. Without going into who goes where, here are what I believe to be the viable candidates for the final 64:

Big East: UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, Boise, Cincy, USF. (Cincy, USF are on the outside looking in, and I don't think SDSU goes anywhere and UCF is a real stretch also)
ACC: Pitt, Fla St., Clem, Miami, NCState, Ga Tech, UNC, Va Tech, UVA, Maryland, Syracuse, BC (Syracuse, BC on the outside looking in, and I really feel that Duke football will cost Duke a seat at the table in the end despite this little "uptick").
Independent: ND, BYU (BYU could cost themselves, and Navy is well on the outside)
MAC, Sunbelt, C-USA, current WAC, MW: none

I've listed 20 teams for 18 spots, and that was with the exclusion of Duke, who's olympic sports and academic reputation may be enough to save them. Yikes...

 

[Dann]

I can see 4 leagues with 16 teams - it's not that simple though. The people who run the schools do care about the appearance of being concerned with academics. The PAC-12's geography makes it tough for them to get to 16. As long as Texas isn't interested in joining there aren't schools for them to add. The Big 12 can't even find two suitable teams to get to 12 yet - maybe Maryland's departure changes the stance of Florida State - but I really don't see why.
the md leaving will blow up in court with that buyout. the acc will revote it and it will have a start date to it. the b12 will tear apart the acc before that start date so schools get out before the $ is a issue.

As for some of your suggestions, I don't see why the Big 10 would want UConn without Rutgers. They would seem to be more valuable together than separate. Throw in the fact it looks like at least Maryland and either Georgia Tech or Rutgers is getting them to 14 this week. UNC is the king of the ACC. Trying to get them to leave is asking the Queen of England to depart for Spain for a few million dollars but instead of Queen it's to be a commoner. I don't see UNC going anywhere unless there were mass departures from the ACC and they had to make a move to survive.
i included md and ruty in the b10 already so they go from 14-18 in my thing. sorry i didn't make that clear at any point, my bad. unc will leave the acc only when flames are starting, thats in my head 2015 when nd is looking to the b10 to join and they need 1 more for 18. unc gets way to many benefits on being #18 not to do so. plaing fball in the sec would be great for unc, but there are 10 other things that rival the fball thing. unc to the b10 makes a lot of sense and fball is in a b4 conf anyway so all is well. bball joins the best bbal conf to boot.

Not sure why the SEC would want the secondary team from Florida and South Carolina. VPI and NCSU make sense in theory - and certainly there are people in both fanbases who think they should band together. I think that ignores the politics of a move - it isn't all that easy for NCSU or VPI to do things that would harm UNC and UVA.
becuase they dont want the b12 to have a good foothold in there territory. the sec struck with atm to the heart of the b12, the b12 will try to strike back. the sec can swallow some pride and block that. which is worse? the b12 having a fsu-fl rival on eaul footing or the sec coming to senses and inviting fsu and keeping the b12 out. fsu and fl play anyway so its not a issue. miami is flaming out but still a worthy add for b12. they dont give the b12 near enough to have a fighting chance in fl. usf as well makes them #2 to sec all day and its never a question. the best they can do is try to invest a north vs south fl thing. the 2 big boys up north still run train. usc is the same deal blocking the b12. the b12 is going to get some southern teams no doubt, but if they can't grab any big boys then they will not be of huge competition to the sec. taking the best 2 of the group in fsu and clem hurt the b12s idea of having a footprint that matters vs just having a footprint. uva-vt and unc-ncst def do have major politics involved, thats why i think the b10 and sec are working together to burn the acc down in time. just imagine both agreeing to grab 2 each and helping the politics side take the easy sit back aproach to everything being ok.

BYU could join a league whenever they want. They care more about pushing their religion internationally than they do what conference they are in. The rest of the Pac 12 schools are never going to accept Boise or San Diego State or UNLV as full members. Hawaii is a nightmare - they bring nothing and add a ton in travel costs. No market, games are in the middle of the night, no one can recruit there.
Davis? UC-Davis playing Pac 12 football and basketball?
byu will notice like nd very soon that there is no way to be indy, they will go to the pac. its a combo of byu accepting the fact that they need to join something and the pac not seeing a better add west of texas ever againa nd jumping on it. this will happen one day and byu will take 1-3 teams with it in a sweeping add for the league. the pac schools will not have a choice when it comes down to it. sdsu, unr types are building and quick. down the road they will fit it but right now its potential and if u see it or not. hawaii is a potential, but the pac commmish has hinted at china tv stuff. getting hawaii is a major point to that as the tv times help a lot of invertory for china thoughts on tv...uc davis is like utsa in texas. the school that could be the monster just born.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yeah maybe it's not that simple. But if say UConn or Rutgers or Louisville or USF wasn't available - and they had to choose between schools clearly below that level like ECU or Memphis or Temple would they still do it?

I was going to say that. But I am glad you did. In that case, I can see them taking a wait and see approach.

This might be the only time the ACC can get raided and expect to replenish immediately with schools that are on par with present standards. I am not sure USF, UCF, Louisville and Cincy are appealing to them as it is.

That is a goo point though. If the ACC loses two and Rutgers isn't available, we might be in a bind.