Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[zls44]

...or deliberately disingenuous.

OOOOH, THE CONSPIRACY GROOOOWS!!!! The Big East rejected a billion dollars. A billion. They made a decision, it blew up in their faces. That's on them.

This is checkers. Not chess.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

OOOOH, THE CONSPIRACY GROOOOWS!!!! The Big East rejected a billion dollars. A billion. They made a decision, it blew up in their faces. That's on them.

This is checkers. Not chess.

Unless Pitt president knew something was going on with the ACC and the B12 before he orchestrated the votes to reject the deal. Based on things we know today, it seems Pitt was in bed with multiple conferences and looking for the best deal for itself. Pitt was merely a tool used by ESPiN to break up the BE, but they were willing and they knew insider info to all the BE deals.

 

[UConn990411]

OOOOH, THE CONSPIRACY GROOOOWS!!!! The Big East rejected a billion dollars. A billion. They made a decision, it blew up in their faces. That's on them.

This is checkers. Not chess.

Your incessant defense of ESPN is bizarre, to say the least.

No one would dispute that the Big East made on awful decision after another, but that doesn't negate the fact that ESPN behaved in an unethical (and possibly illegal) manner. Those are two completely different points.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Your incessant defense of ESPN is bizarre, to say the least.

No one would dispute that the Big East made on awful decision after another, but that doesn't negate the fact that ESPN behaved in an unethical (and possibly illegal) manner. Those are two completely different points.

Doesn't 'ZLS' work for the worldwide leader? (or is that a different apologista)

 

[pj]

If schools X and Y are currently in a contract with ESPN, the answer should be "we are currently in contract with the schools you're inquiring about, so to provide an answer would be a conflict of interest and inappropriate and unethical for us to provide you such valuation. Just as we would not provide similar information on schools in your conference to other leagues Mr. Swofford."

Yes, that would be the written reply. The off-the-record reply given orally at lunch would be different.

The question then is, did anyone at the ACC repeat in emails what ESPN officials said orally.

The further question is, does anyone who was damaged by tortious interference by the ACC or breach of faith by ESPN care to sue? Really, it seems at this point only UConn would have cause, and UConn may feel that alienating ESPN and the ACC is not in its interest. The last lawsuit didn't bring many benefits.

 

[pj]

You are miles off. ESPN helped a key vendor to destroy not just one competitor (the Big East), but attempt to destroy another (the Big 10).

ESPN is in big trouble here. The problem with most anti-trust investigations is there usually isn't enough direct evidence of the illegal activity to warrant a conviction. Most successful anti-trust trials have a Mark Whitacre that is on the inside feeding the feds information. ESPN/ACC's problem could be that Maryland just decided to become Mark Whitacre. Who knows what memos they kept. They wouldn't put it all in the initial complaint. That initial complaint is just a tease for the ACC and ESPN to play ball.

The problem for the ESPN brass is that the allegations may cross into criminal anti-trust and price fixing behavior. There is no settlement for that. Federal prosecutors like sending executives to jail, and the prosecutions are generally straightforward and pretty easy. There is no Omerta in media and advertising. Most guys sing pretty quickly when faced with even the credible hint of jail time.

Antitrust prosecutions have been rare in recent decades and only proceed against political scapegoats. In this case, maybe Connecticut representatives would be on the side of an antitrust investigation, but representatives and senators from 40 other states would oppose it as disruptive to their ACC/B1G/SEC/Pac/B12 schools. There is no chance of congressional inquiries or executive branch antitrust investigations.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

UConn may feel that alienating ESPN and the ACC is not in its interest. The last lawsuit didn't bring many benefits.

Do we care at this point? If we are to be stuck in this AAC purgatory for the foreseen future, we got two choices:

1) Sit there and take it like a good little boy. As a bonus, we got idiots coming to our board constantly belittling UCONN on how we need to really improve FOOTBALL to have a chance at P5 when schools with similar football success like BCU, fruits, Pitt, and UL have moved on to the P5.

2) Sue ESPiN and the ACC for the damages we have suffered. Our lawyers can start with the damage in the billions. We should receive a nice sum settlement in the worst case if ESPiN is involved. We can use that money to improve ourselves for the B1G.

 

[Glastonhusky]

Do we care at this point? If we are to be stuck in this AAC purgatory for the foreseen future, we got two choices:

1) Sit there and take it like a good little boy. As a bonus, we got idiots coming to our board constantly belittling UCONN on how we need to really improve FOOTBALL to have a chance at P5 when schools with similar football success like BCU, fruits, Pitt, and UL have moved on to the P5.

2) Sue ESPiN and the ACC for the damages we have suffered. Our lawyers can start with the damage in the billions. We should receive a nice sum settlement in the worst case if ESPiN is involved. We can use that money to improve ourselves for the B1G.

The problem is, we don't know if a B1G bid is forthcoming and we don't want to burn the ACC bridge just yet.

 

[Dooley]

I really don't see how UCONN can get shut out of a P5 conference. They have the resources to spend and, most importantly, they WANT to spend it to be in a P5 conference. Everything UCONN has done in the past 30 years has been done to compete in the highest possible conference schedule. UCONN operated just fine in a BCS conference for a decade and had achieved a great level of success across all divisions: football elevated to Big East and went to 5 bowl games including a BCS, MBB won 2 national championships since football upgraded (showing that we have the resources to remain competitive in the two highest grossing TV sports), and WBB is WBB for those who watch it. Academics shot up through the roof and the campus exploded with expansion and renovation.

UCONN is a state school whose funding has been primarily from taxpayer funding. The money spent to upgrade football was made under the assumption that UCONN was going to be in the Big East, a BCS/P5 type of conference. Without question, the biggest kick in the nut has been reserved for UCONN in conference realignment. I have no idea if ESPiN was involved in nut kicking but everything that we hear leak out from behind closed doors sure indicates that ESPiN has a significant amount of pull in CR. Motive? I can't even begin to guess why ESPiN would work to leave UCONN behind. Did ESPiN not get approved for state funding for expansion/renovation plans because the money was ear-marked for UCONN? Does ESPiN's employee base consist of nothing but SyraFruit grads who shiver at the thought of UCONN being on equal footing? Did Mark Emmert order the destruction of UCONN after he left? Did UCONN sleep with ESPiN's wife? I have no friggin' idea. But, at the very least, I'm hoping that this Maryland lawsuit will open up more conversation as to what ESPiN is actually doing behind closed doors. Their main headquarters enjoy the benefits of the same taxpayers who are being screwed over with each passing day that UCONN is stuck in AAC purgatory.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The problem is, we don't know if a B1G bid is forthcoming and we don't want to burn the ACC bridge just yet.

Fool me once (Fruist/sPitt), shame on you (ACC). Fool me twice (UL), shame on me (UCONN). Fool me a third time? Do we even want to wait to find out what will happen? It is clear ESPiN and ACC have no intention of helping us. We might as well get the money for damages and make our school even better. We have bunch of small minded schools in the ACC that would rather invite a Kentucky community college over us. Do these people work with logic or common sense? No, they work with hateful spite to keep UCONN from competing on the even field. BCU's flipper already confirmed this in his interview.

Nothing is worse than being stuck in this AAC purgatory for the next 10 years or how ever long for the GORs to expire. If we are here, we might as well get paid and use the money to get into another P5 conference other than the ACC.

 

[SAMCRO]

Yes, that would be the written reply. The off-the-record reply given orally at lunch would be different.

The question then is, did anyone at the ACC repeat in emails what ESPN officials said orally.

The further question is, does anyone who was damaged by tortious interference by the ACC or breach of faith by ESPN care to sue? Really, it seems at this point only UConn would have cause, and UConn may feel that alienating ESPN and the ACC is not in its interest. The last lawsuit didn't bring many benefits.

I agree a lawsuit is not the right path to go down, just pointing out that IMO ESPN did act unethically. To your second point, what ESPN does for ACC orally one can only imagine. It sure feels like ESPN orally served the ACC at lunch, then turned and spit the "protein" in UConn's face.

 

[Dooley]

I think it's too early for a lawsuit but let's play a little hypothetical: say Bob Diaco comes in and football begins to improve (read: achieves bowl eligibility) right away while our other athletic programs maintain the level that they are currently at, if UCONN isn't invited into a P5 conference by the end of 2015, I'd say it's lawsuit time. By then, the Big East settlement money will probably have dried up and we'd be operating on a revenue stream that doesn't compare to small time friggin' Providence. Sue ESPN. Sue the ACC. Sue Father Leahy for good ol' times sake. Sue Donna Shalala for not returning phone calls. Sue Pitt and SyraFruit because we didn't get a chance to sue them the last time and they seem shady. Sue Rutgers for having everyone fooled into thinking that they bring some sort of value to a conference. Sue Washington, Northern Illinois and Northeastern for Husky infringement. Sue Canada for Yukon/UCONN copyright. Sue Jeff Hathaway because he's a . Sue everyone. Go for broke. Sue for billions so that we can create our own Husky TV Network and laugh at our competition having to share revenue with their conference rivals.

But until then, let's play nice.

 

[SubbaBub]

I think it's too early for a lawsuit but let's play a little hypothetical: say Bob Diaco comes in and football begins to improve (read: achieves bowl eligibility) right away while our other athletic programs maintain the level that they are currently at, if UCONN isn't invited into a P5 conference by the end of 2015, I'd say it's lawsuit time. By then, the Big East settlement money will probably have dried up and we'd be operating on a revenue stream that doesn't compare to small time friggin' Providence. Sue ESPN. Sue the ACC. Sue Father Leahy for good ol' times sake. Sue Donna Shalala for not returning phone calls. Sue Pitt and SyraFruit because we didn't get a chance to sue them the last time and they seem shady. Sue Rutgers for having everyone fooled into thinking that they bring some sort of value to a conference. Sue Washington, Northern Illinois and Northeastern for Husky infringement. Sue Canada for Yukon/UCONN copyright. Sue Jeff Hathaway because he's a . Sue everyone. Go for broke. Sue for billions so that we can create our own Husky TV Network and laugh at our competition having to share revenue with their conference rivals.

But until then, let's play nice.

This is legit teriffic. All this is missing is the reference to the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.

 

[UConnJim]

Fool me once (Fruist/sPitt), shame on you (ACC). Fool me twice (UL), shame on me (UCONN). Fool me a third time? Do we even want to wait to find out what will happen? It is clear ESPiN and ACC have no intention of helping us. We might as well get the money for damages and make our school even better. We have bunch of small minded schools in the ACC that would rather invite a Kentucky community college over us. Do these people work with logic or common sense? No, they work with hateful spite to keep UCONN from competing on the even field. BCU's flipper already confirmed this in his interview.

Nothing is worse than being stuck in this AAC purgatory for the next 10 years or how ever long for the GORs to expire. If we are here, we might as well get paid and use the money to get into another P5 conference other than the ACC.

The ACC needed a school that was committed to winning at football at all costs and Louisville fit the bill. They rehired Bobby Petrino, who no other P5 school would consider, kept an assistant coach on staff that has a show cause due the Miami scandal, bought the Georgia defensive coordinator for $1 million per year, and are an academic institution that will let in anybody who applies.

 

[billybud]

Oh..Good God!

Can you imagine that door opened?

Texas A&M and Mizzou talking to the SEC...Nebraska talking to the Big Ten...

A top secret, stealth swiping of Maryland to the Big Ten that did not even meet Maryland's public policy for openness...

Secret meetings by Delany and confidentiality agreements. Discussions between the Big Ten and other ACC teams.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a tortious interference suit...

 

[upstater]

ESPN should hope that UConn, Cincy, and USF find a safe landing spot. There is nothing more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose.

I've always thought this. The day after

Oh..Good God!

Can you imagine that door opened?

Texas A&M and Mizzou talking to the SEC...Nebraska talking to the Big Ten...

A top secret, stealth swiping of Maryland to the Big Ten that did not even meet Maryland's public policy for openness...

Secret meetings by Delany and confidentiality agreements. Discussions between the Big Ten and other ACC teams.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a tortious interference suit...

The ACC isn't going to sue the B10. This is between Maryland and the ACC.

 

[UPitt]

The Catholics certainly aren't better off, even if their fans want to convince themselves otherwise. Those athletic departments are gonna miss the fat a checks they were making by being associated with the football schools. Plus, after seeing what's happened to BC, Miami an West Virginia, you my not want to count your chickens with regard to Pitt's success before they hatch.

I mostly agree with your assessment of the Catholics in terms of money. They used to get a higher share of money than basketball was worth in the old Big East. That is why I stated they "have what they wanted" (a private league) even if it is not as valuable.

Also, I know you've been a pleasant poster here, but kindly duckk off about this topic. There's a long list of scumbags in this conference realignment process, and your school's president is sitting at the very top.

I am not here to and I have never defended the actions Pitt has taken in this realignment process as ethical or friendly or in good faith towards the Big East. None of us know the full details and timeline of what each school knew about the ACC or Big East while negotiating a contract, but I find it embarrassing to hear that leader of my University would take part in double talking as has been described. To be clear though, the realignment process has been very cut throat and back stabbing, and I think the actions taken by many of the schools/leagues has been of similar nature.

My original post was only to shed light on the opinion of ESPN from someone else. I understand the frustration and betrayal that many in UConn and Connecticut feel towards ESPN, as the Uconn/Conn support of ESPN has been a one way street thus far. The general sentiment I hear on this board is very negative toward ESPN. Many posters would like ESPN to be exposed and embarrassed and held financially responsible for UConn not being in the ACC. It is fair to have this opinion, but I think that is the minority opinion across the country. I was only trying to explain that even if this blows up in ESPNs face, the majority of the country is still more satisfied with the current realignment configuration than prior to realignment and will have no hard feelings toward ESPN. This is just an opinion, but I do not expect ESPN to see much, if any, backlash for its rule in conference realignment. Personally, I am disappointed to lose a few BE rivalries but I do not have hard feelings toward ESPN. I think this is the opinion that most college fans feel at this time, with the exception of a few schools that are currently on the short end of the stick.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Oh..Good God!

Can you imagine that door opened?

Texas A&M and Mizzou talking to the SEC...Nebraska talking to the Big Ten...

A top secret, stealth swiping of Maryland to the Big Ten that did not even meet Maryland's public policy for openness...

Secret meetings by Delany and confidentiality agreements. Discussions between the Big Ten and other ACC teams.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a tortious interference suit...

Conferences can talk to other schools. That's fine and dandy. I don't think it is against any kind of the law for schools wanting to move to another conference. They can also communicate in the dark and it is fine too. However, some schools have all kind of insider info and used it against their former conferences while helping out the new one. That to me, is totally against the law and illegal.

The issue I have with this whole CR thing is how the ACC and ESPiN took the BE apart one by one after BE rejected the ESPiN deal. For the record, I predicted that ESPiN will destroy the BE right after BE rejected the ESPiN deal. This was many years ago. On top of it, ESPiN and the ACC have insider info via Pitt and the Fruits. I am pretty confident Pitt president, who was the head of the BE media negotiation committee, had all kinds of insider info and used it for Pitt's and ACC's (once Pitt was admitted) benefits without any regard for the remaining members of the BE. As a result, UCONN, USF, and Cincy were screwed out of hundreds of millions in media revenue. The actual damage could be much greater than this. This to me is a lawsuit in the making that could result in billions in damages.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

My original post was only to shed light on the opinion of ESPN from someone else. I understand the frustration and betrayal that many in UConn and Connecticut feel towards ESPN, as the Uconn/Conn support of ESPN has been a one way street thus far.

For the record, ESPiN started by building on the back of UCONN sports. UCONN helped its growth and they have received hundreds of millions of dollars in CT tax break. You are right many of us are pissed how much they screwed us during this conference realignment. I would like to see CT attorney general sue the hell of the ESPiN and the ACC. I would like to see people like flipper (BCU AD at the time), Pitt president, Swordfford, and many others put under oath and provide details on what exactly happened.

 

[Sea Goat]

ESPN should hope that UConn, Cincy, and USF find a safe landing spot. There is nothing more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose,

I mostly agree with your assessment of the Catholics in terms of money. They used to get a higher share of money than basketball was worth in the old Big East. That is why I stated they "have what they wanted" (a private league) even if it is not as valuable.




I am not here to and I have never defended the actions Pitt has taken in this realignment process as ethical or friendly or in good faith towards the Big East. None of us know the full details and timeline of what each school knew about the ACC or Big East while negotiating a contract, but I find it embarrassing to hear that leader of my University would take part in double talking as has been described. To be clear though, the realignment process has been very cut throat and back stabbing, and I think the actions taken by many of the schools/leagues has been of similar nature.

My original post was only to shed light on the opinion of ESPN from someone else. I understand the frustration and betrayal that many in UConn and Connecticut feel towards ESPN, as the Uconn/Conn support of ESPN has been a one way street thus far. The general sentiment I hear on this board is very negative toward ESPN. Many posters would like ESPN to be exposed and embarrassed and held financially responsible for UConn not being in the ACC. It is fair to have this opinion, but I think that is the minority opinion across the country. I was only trying to explain that even if this blows up in ESPNs face, the majority of the country is still more satisfied with the current realignment configuration than prior to realignment and will have no hard feelings toward ESPN. This is just an opinion, but I do not expect ESPN to see much, if any, backlash for its rule in conference realignment. Personally, I am disappointed to lose a few BE rivalries but I do not have hard feelings toward ESPN. I think this is the opinion that most college fans feel at this time, with the exception of a few schools that are currently on the short end of the stick.

I want to know what ESPN has been up to in the CR process for a couple of reasons: 1. CT has bestowed 1/4 billion dollars tax credits and other benefits on ESPN and I am interested in what role ESPN played in a process (CR) that has royally screwed CT's flagship university. 2. While we may not be able to do anything about it, let's find out what ESPN deems that we are lacking so we can correct those deficiencies. That being said, no one can convince me that Syra...., Pitt, Louisvile C.C. and Rutrohs deserve P-5 conference membership over UConn. If ESPN played a role in any of the decisions that excluded UConn from consideration, then let them explain. Its not asking too much.

 

[billybud]

Whew...the ESPN hate is high in Connecticut...

With the ACC and BE sharing an east coast footprint, the handwriting was on the wall...like the Highlander, there could only "be one".

...The ACC, at 9, was going to expand or die...they expanded to 11.

...Once the NCAA denied the ACC having a CCG without 12 members, they expanded again.

...And again to 14 which they have maintained.

The Big East was always at a disadvantage and was doomed to be a feeder for expansion and a place for start up BCS programs.

1...It was a buffet line of a conference where schools picked and chose what sports to play...some football, some not.

2...It lacked, after Miami left, a team with national "star power".

3...The Big East was the only BCS conference that didn't have its own BCS Bowl...it was a child of a lesser God. And recognized as such.

4...Weak brands get bought out or disappear and the Big East had the weakest brand in BCS football.

Some folks mourn the passing of Pontiac, and others sadly miss TCBY...but the market is cruel.

 

[businesslawyer]

Oh..Good God!

Can you imagine that door opened?

Texas A&M and Mizzou talking to the SEC...Nebraska talking to the Big Ten...

A top secret, stealth swiping of Maryland to the Big Ten that did not even meet Maryland's public policy for openness...

Secret meetings by Delany and confidentiality agreements. Discussions between the Big Ten and other ACC teams.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a tortious interference suit...

Would it be possible to decide whether your position is "no one did anything wrong and you are all paranoid" or "everyone did something wrong so shut up about it?" Because for all the stupidity on this board, when you argue both on the same thread it really just invites others to try to be even more idiotic.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[billybud]

I don't take a "moral" position...about right or wrong.

Conferences have expanded for decades...and have talked to prospective programs for decades.

I do take a position that I think that the specific outrage exhibited towards the ACC, and ESPN by extension, by former Big East fans is a residual effect of years of frustration as they watched the slow drying up of the tidal pool.

I also take the position that the restraint of trade elements brought forward in Maryland's suit are not terribly different then the ones already rejected by the Maryland
court.

And talk of tortious interference is wishful thinking...it would be the Big Ten that would have that interest if two Big Ten schools were talked to...and they ain't going to pursue that.

My position is that this is just another maneuver to attempt to reach a settlement...and Dr. Loh even alluded to that being the case.

 

[pj]

I also take the position that the restraint of trade elements brought forward in Maryland's suit are not terribly different then the ones already rejected by the Maryland
court.

I'm not following this closely, but surely the Maryland court didn't rule on the merits of Maryland's case, only on which court was the proper venue to hear them.

 

[noeynox]

For the record, ESPiN started by building on the back of UCONN sports. UCONN helped its growth and they have received hundreds of millions of dollars in CT tax break. You are right many of us are pissed how much they screwed us during this conference realignment. I would like to see CT attorney general sue the hell of the ESPiN and the ACC. I would like to see people like flipper (BCU AD at the time), Pitt president, Swordfford, and many others put under oath and provide details on what exactly happened.

Yeah, but you know what happened to uncle amos of famous amos cookies right? $ame principle.

 

[billybud]

It would be foolish of an organization not to attempt to put a dollar value on an acquisition.

I am sure that before I bought supplier to General Motors, I'd contact GM about the viability of that supplier in terms of contracts and growth potential as a GM supplier.

I'm not following this closely, but surely the Maryland court didn't rule on the merits of Maryland's case, only on which court was the proper venue to hear them.

"But Davey left three of Maryland’s four counts intact, dismissing only a count in which Maryland alleged its economic and competitive standing was harmed by leaving the ACC. The judge said Maryland had publicly declared that it gained financially from joining the Big Ten."

Maryland is now stuck re claiming injury by the ACC...

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Typical ACC unwarranted elitism.

The Big East basketball had surpassed the ACC brand.

The Big East football had surpassed ACC football on the playing field even after BC, VT and Miami were stolen.

The Big East found itself in a horrible contractual situation post the 2003 raid that left the conference vulnerable.

The absolute only thing the ACC had on the Big East come the second raid was an open contact and a shared business partner that was willing to kill one off and pay the other.

So, take your ACC/ESPN BS propaganda and have a circle jerk in some ACC forum where they actually believe this .

 

[btstimpy]

I'm not following this closely, but surely the Maryland court didn't rule on the merits of Maryland's case, only on which court was the proper venue to hear them.

The Maryland Court actually did dismiss all of Maryland's claims to have been economically harmed by this move in any way citing that the Maryland President had bragged about how much better the move is financially for Maryland. Thus the Maryland court upheld the ACC's withholding the TV money, bowl revenue, etc. normaly paid to Maryland as offset until the case is resolved. The Maryland court stayed the rest of the Maryland case about the ACC bylaws and procedure.

This new lawsuit in North Carolina is repeating much of what the Maryland court tossed out about Maryland being harmed or inhibited by any anti trust situation.

 

[The Viking]

Just asking again, because I'm not sure if it's been answered.

If ESPN is under contract with the ACC and the Big East at the same time, are they allowed to assist the ACC expansion by way of a Big East raid, knowing full well that their assistance would either significantly weaken or destroy a conference that ESPN is under contract with at the time of the conversations.

 

[specialisthusky]

The Maryland Court actually did dismiss all of Maryland's claims to have been economically harmed by this move in any way citing that the Maryland President had bragged about how much better the move is financially for Maryland. Thus the Maryland court upheld the ACC's withholding the TV money, bowl revenue, etc. normaly paid to Maryland as offset until the case is resolved. The Maryland court stayed the rest of the Maryland case about the ACC bylaws and procedure.

This new lawsuit in North Carolina is repeating much of what the Maryland court tossed out about Maryland being harmed or inhibited by any anti trust situation.

Link? because this one says something completely different.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...0628_1_maryland-exit-fee-north-carolina-court