Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[upstater]

butt hurt? You are the one who talks out of your butt and sounds sore. With absolutely no information, you make a declaring statement (based on nothing but your opinion).

I can refute it with authority...and you get bent.

If you just have to believe that you know better...I guess you just have to believe something to make you feel better.

You keep digging the hole deeper and deeper.

You sound increasingly irascible.

% of faculty who care about college sports: 1 or 2%? Tops.

 

[billybud]

They don't care about sports...they do care about academic affiliation....

While conferences are basically about sports...they also are not...Try to explain to me how AAU membership as a Big Ten requirement has anything to do with sports.

I'll wait.

 

[billybud]

The last part of President Barron's infamous public email about FSU not being interested in the Big 12..

"The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker, and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.

I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so simple (not to mention that negotiations aren't even taking place). One of the few wise comments made in the blogosphere is that no one negotiates their future in the media. We can't afford to have conference affiliation be governed by emotion it has to be based on a careful assessment of athletics, finances and academics.

I assure you that every aspect of conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but it must be a reasoned decision.

Eric Barron President

 

[billybud]

Soo...we have two Presidents of FSU...decades removed...both stating that faculty have a serious interest in conference realignment...

And, on the the hand, we have Upstater...,saying...nah...no academics would care about conference realignment.

Believe who you will....If Upstater tells you that the world was created 5,000 years ago, it would be using this same belief mechanism. I believe it because I believe it.

 

[SAMCRO]

Actually, the vote for the $52M was 10-2, with UMD and FSU voting no.

That was my point. This is just as much or more about not giving FSU a get out of the ACC on the cheap option (even though I don't think they have ny interest in leaving right now) than as it is about collecting cash from UMd.

 

[CL82]

I know exactly what happened in Maryland court. All complaints about injury to Maryland were dismissed. The motion to change venue was denied. The overlap with the ACC case in North Carolina was stayed to defer to the North Carolina Court. And the Maryland appeal in Maryland court was dismissed.

There was no hearing on the merits. The case is on hold until after the disposition of the NC case. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[SouthronCross]

That was my point. This is just as much or more about not giving FSU a get out of the ACC on the cheap option (even though I don't think they have ny interest in leaving right now) than as it is about collecting cash from UMd.

billybud can give you a more informed answer than I, but, I will offer you my .02 worth...

I never thought that FSU was going to leave the ACC. Theirs and Clemson's 'threat' of the Big 12 was to break the complete hold that basketball has held on this league since its inception. And, it worked. And, I couldn't be happier about it working, as I am a football-first UNC fan. I love UNC hoops as much as almost any UNC fan, but, I want them to stop making making the FB team the red-headed step-child of the University.

Its time for somebody other than FSU and CU to carry the water for the league.

And, I still hold out hope that UConn will be in the ACC with us.

 

[SouthronCross]

The ability to compel a non-party to produce documents is limited. Minimally you need to articulate a rational basis for the information that relates to the suit. The B1G isn't being drawn into this, unless the ACC amends it's complaint, which it could do. I suspect that it won't.

Come on, CL, do you really believe that Delany was not involved in this? Really?

As commissioner of the B1G, how can he not be involved? The move to bring UMD into the league had to have his stamp of approval to go forward. Or, is that not a logical conclusion?

 

[CL82]

The last part of President Barron's infamous public email about FSU not being interested in the Big 12.

"The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker. Instead we prefer to admit schools that make our current league academically inferior. In this way we maintain our football superiority by not moving to league with better competition and make our suspect academics look better by associating with glorified commuter colleges. Many of our alumni, students and professor resent the fact that we would bully a conference into setting aside it's vaunted academic priorities in order to keep us in league that no longer makes geographic sense but football interests now run this college, and have for a long time, so I could not care less what they think.

I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so simple (and to make you aware that if you are not a prominent football booster we do not give a hoot about what you think). We can't afford to have conference affiliation to be based on a careful assessment of athletics, finances and academics, instead it must be a game of chicken with those arrogant jackasses in North Carolina.

I assure you that every aspect of conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but a decision will be based upon personal ego and, of course, football.

Eric Barron President
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ah, now that makes sense.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

How do we get in on this? I'm always down to sue the ACC

I am not ready to sue the ACC!! We did it once before and where did it leave us?? We aren't in a P5 conference.

 

[CL82]

Come on, CL, do you really believe that Delany was not involved in this? Really?

As commissioner of the B1G, how can he not be involved? The move to bring UMD into the league had to have his stamp of approval to go forward. Or, is that not a logical conclusion?

Involved how, Southron? It needs to be involved in a way that relevant to the suit, to an allegation or defense at issue in the suit. I don't think it is, based upon my recollection of what's been alleged to date. Now, if the ACC made a interference with contract allegation that would change things. If they did, might not other schools do the same to the ACC? Then, as billybud says, things would get interesting.

I think the 17 million number may turn out to be where they end up, but you can make a case for none that is pretty reasonable.

 

[btstimpy]

There was no hearing on the merits. The case is on hold until after the disposition of the NC case. Nothing more and nothing less.

The Merits of Maryland's anti -trust claims were ruled on and dismissed by Judge John Paul Davey. They have shown back up in the Counter Suit, and they will most likely be dismissed once again in North Carolina court. This is the part authorizing the ACC to offset the Exit Fee by holding all of Maryland's revenue from the ACC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ounty-judge-stays-decision-in-maryland-v-acc/

His opionion was 36 pages long.

Davey also dismissed an antitrust claim, one of Maryland’s counts in its lawsuit against the ACC, based on the court’s findings that “by Maryland’s own admissions and actions, its freedom to associate with various conferences has not been impeded by the Withdrawal Payment and, in fact, publically declares. the financial benefit of joining the Big Ten Conference.”
He kept Maryland’s remaining three counts intact, but stayed them.

The part stayed, or put on hold as you say, is the part overlapping the ACC's case.

 

[btstimpy]

Involved how, Southron? It needs to be involved in a way that relevant to the suit, to an allegation or defense at issue in the suit. I don't think it is, based upon my recollection of what's been alleged to date. Now, if the ACC made a interference with contract allegation that would change things. If they did, might not other schools do the same to the ACC? Then, as billybud says, things would get interesting.

I think the 17 million number may turn out to be where they end up, but you can make a case for none that is pretty reasonable.

Maryland is alleging that the ACC tried to poach Big Ten schools. They allege that Wake Forest and Pittsburgh did it. By issuing a subpoena to Pittsburgh, they will need to do so to Wake Forest as well. Then the ACC will issue them to whomever Wake and Pitt allegedly spoke with, and Maryland will need to produce their records too. All of this is legal cost to Wake, Pitt, and the Big Ten schools not named yet.

And don't forget Maryland is alleging that the ACC "attempted" to poach schools. One must not forget that it is the Big Ten who actually "succeeded" in poaching schools. The next logical step is a counter-counter suit with $450 million in damages against that Big Ten poaching. Delaney would get involved then.

 

[CL82]

Maryland is alleging that the ACC tried to poach Big Ten schools. They allege that Wake Forest and Pittsburgh did it. By issuing a subpoena to Pittsburgh, they will need to do so to Wake Forest as well. Then the ACC will issue them to whomever Wake and Pitt allegedly spoke with, and Maryland will need to produce their records too. All of this is legal cost to Wake, Pitt, and the Big Ten schools not named yet.

And don't forget Maryland is alleging that the ACC "attempted" to poach schools. One must not forget that it is the Big Ten who actually "succeeded" in poaching schools. The next logical step is a counter-counter suit with $450 million in damages against that Big Ten poaching. Delaney would get involved then.

Logical? Hardly.

 

[billybud]

full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Just a maneuver aimed at moving the settlement along...

Methinks that the ACC will play stubborn and counter...subpoena Maryland's and the Big Ten offices emails and phone records and travel documents.

 

[btstimpy]

Logical? Hardly.

Yes Logical using Maryland's complaint in the Counterclaim as basis. In fact, much of the language could be copied into the counter-counter claim. And Maryland would still owe the Exit Fee because all of this is just diversion. It should all be there right in the motion to dismiss the Maryland Counterclaim, and filed should the Maryland Counterclaim not be dismissed.

 

[btstimpy]

full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Just a maneuver aimed at moving the settlement along...

Methinks that the ACC will play stubborn and counter...subpoena Maryland's and the Big Ten offices emails and phone records and travel documents.

There is no reason to settle, and it is not stubborn to refuse to do so. The number is set. $52 million. If Maryland chose not to include it in their calculations, that's their problem. They were perfectly aware of its existence. If they did include it, then pay it and leave.

 

[billybud]

It will eventually end up $20 million.

There are weaknesses in the $52 million ACC case related to internal consistency with conference policy re notice, related to the amount of the exit fee as a true liquidated damage vs a punitive fee.

 

[CL82]

full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Just a maneuver aimed at moving the settlement along...

Methinks that the ACC will play stubborn and counter...subpoena Maryland's and the Big Ten offices emails and phone records and travel documents.

I suppose they could but it wouldn't be enforceable.

 

[CL82]

Yes Logical using Maryland's complaint in the Counterclaim as basis. In fact, much of the language could be copied into the counter-counter claim. And Maryland would still owe the Exit Fee because all of this is just diversion. It should all be there right in the motion to dismiss the Maryland Counterclaim, and filed should the Maryland Counterclaim not be dismissed.

No. Just no.

 

[btstimpy]

No. Just no.

Judgement ACC. $52 Million. I'll set the date to meet you to discus

 

[billybud]

I would be surprised at a $52 million judgment. In a suit that revolves around the intricacies of a contract (the bylaws) vs the actions of the parties, that contract must be examined in context of the actions that the parties took.

If the contract has a clause that requires a 15 day notice for an amendment and that notice was not given, then one might assume that the amendment action was not consistent with the bylaws requirement. And, thus, may not be valid.

FSU's President went on the record that he was blindsided at the meeting by the amendment and called the BOT Chair overnight to discuss it. The FSU BOT Chair went on the record as opposing.

Sounds to me that there is a real process weakness in the ACC case. Process, as delineated in the bylaws, not followed = invalid result of process.

 

[UConn9604]

Judgement ACC. $52 Million. I'll set the date to meet you to discus

I'll take this bet. ACC gets over $50 million, you win. ACC gets under $25 million, I win. In between, it's a push.

Loser pays up the next time UVa comes to The Rent to get blown out again. Deal?

 

[businesslawyer]

There is no reason to settle, and it is not stubborn to refuse to do so. The number is set. $52 million. If Maryland chose not to include it in their calculations, that's their problem. They were perfectly aware of its existence. If they did include it, then pay it and leave.

Out of curiosity, assume you're a member in a book club. The club votes at a meeting properly called and held (with everyone voting in favor but you) that if you stop coming to meetings, you (and every other member) owes the club $1M. You really think that you owe the $1M and there are no issues you could raise as a defense as to whether you really gave the organization power to hold you to that?

 

[btstimpy]

Out of curiosity, assume you're a member in a book club. The club votes at a meeting properly called and held (with everyone voting in favor but you) that if you stop coming to meetings, you (and every other member) owes the club $1M. You really think that you owe the $1M and there are no issues you could raise as a defense as to whether you really gave the organization power to hold you to that?

If I voted previously to authorize the membership to pass rules by 75% vote that I would be bound by, then yes. And if I felt strongly enough about it, I'd ask for another vote to exempt me personally. That request was not made. In fact no special consideration was requested.