Mark Blaudschun: Orange Bowl Update...

[TouchdownHusky]

So the ACC is gonna be ND beeyatch like the BE has been. These conferences all need to tell ND,all in or all out. No more living as Independent. Besides, they haven't been good for years now. Navy beats them now and they've become a trap game for schools facing much better opponents the following week.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The Orange Bowl might get our #2. But our Champs bowl will play the CUSA/Sun Belt #1 at best. Or perhaps the ACC or B1G #4/5.

I would rather have my foot in the door with powerful, well established bowl than have to start over with the Chico's Bail Bonds Florida Bowl.

It's not even a given that we'll hold onto the Pinstripe long term.

If the BE creates it's own bowl, it will create the rules as well. This means that if the BE champ is invited to one of the elite/BCS bowls then the new BE bowl would get our runner up. Just like how the other conference champs get out of their tie in bowl if they are invited to a playoff bowl.

 

[ZooCougar]

I expect them to do that. But they shouldn't have been in the Big East for anything. We gained nothing from an association with them. And they had far more influence than they ever should have had. That's the whole point.

Sheesh. In a world in which conference members have no loyalty to one another (including us, as we have made clear we're out at the first opportunity), how unrealistic is it to think a non-member should be acting in a more loyal manner?

The Irish is a football independent. Any thought that that won't or shouldn't be acting, as a football program, solely in its own best interest is bizarre.

 

[whaler11]

I expect them to do that. But they shouldn't have been in the Big East for anything. We gained nothing from an association with them. And they had far more influence than they ever should have had. That's the whole point.

But that is criticism of the Big East leadership, not Notre Dame. The Presidents of the schools are much more a fault for that dynamic than ND.

 

[businesslawyer]

But that is criticism of the Big East leadership, not Notre Dame. The Presidents of the schools are much more a fault for that dynamic than ND.

You would think that would be obvious. You would also think people would at least admit of the possibility that the football school presidents may not all be stupider than this board, but might have specific information that makes the arrangement make sense.

 

[Jimdish255]

E

You would think that would be obvious. You would also think people would at least admit of the possibility that the football school presidents may not all be stupider than this board, but might have specific information that makes the arrangement make sense.

Aside from tbe initial credibility the association brought the league, I suspect it has been more of an ego boost to most. Just look at the instant activity generated by any far fetched ND
rumor. Recent benefits have been hard to quantify.

 

[businesslawyer]

Recent benefits have been hard to quantify.

Yup. But so have recent detriments. Because the bottom line is that (i) ND never had any interest in playing football in the Big East and would not have, and (ii) no one has yet made a case that anyone is better or worse off because ND plays hoops in the conference. But if we were much worse off, they wouldn't have been invited.

 

[freescooter]

Personally, I suspect that what made sense in 1995 no longer makes such sense. But there is no really feasible way to undo the 1995 decision unless Notre Dame chooses to leave or the football schools do. Thus far, the football schools have been unwilling to go it alone for reasons I get, at least to some extent. Notre Dame has continued to have it both ways so they have no incentive to leave at least thus far. Much as many of us would like to toss them to the curb, the Big East contract really has no mechanism for such a move. I would guess if the same proposal were brought forward today, Notre Dame would not be granted the same benefits--it would be all in or all out. But in the world of the early 1990s, adding Notre Dame for all sports but football made sense.

 

[businesslawyer]

Personally, I suspect that what made sense in 1995 no longer makes such sense.

That may be 100% true. So why do people here hate Notre Dame so much because a deal that we voluntarily took in 95, which made sense then, no longer is appealing because of how the college athletics word has changed? Why is that ND's fault?

 

[Carl Spackler]

My perception is that Notre Dame, is now invested, in not just the survival of the Big East conference, but invested now in creating a thriving Big East conference. Remains to be seen if my perception equates to reality, but that time is getting shorter every day to when reality takes over perception regarding the Big East conference.

So - that said, and assuming my perception turns out to be correct, I reserve the right to be mad as hell at Notre Dame for how long it took, and what measures it took, for them to get to that position.....but at the same time, I'll have to figure out a way to be thankful that the conference and Notre Dame have found a way to create a true mutually beneficial arrangement.

We'll all have a better idea about it all come end of 2012 football season.

As for the bowl game, the natural partner for the ACC champion in the Orange Bowl - is the big east conference champion. Swofford has his head so far up his own ass, that he'll never do it, and wouldn't it be ironic, if as a result of Swofford's arrogance......the Big East does create it's own bowl destination, and subsequently ends up surpassing the orange bowl.....when it comes to the measureables......

 

[freescooter]

That may be 100% true. So why do people here hate Notre Dame so much because a deal that we voluntarily took in 95, which made sense then, no longer is appealing because of how the college athletics word has changed? Why is that ND's fault?

Pretty much because it is very frustrating to be stuck with a situation that is no longer beneficial to the Big East, and may never have been more than marginally so, but remains beneficial to Notre Dame...you have to live with it. You don't have to be happy about it. And when they go around flirting with other conferences it both reminds you of the bad deal you made, but also of what they could have done that would have been hugely helpful to the Big East!

 

[businesslawyer]

Pretty much because it is very frustrating to be stuck with a situation that is no longer beneficial to the Big East, and may never have been more than marginally so, but remains beneficial to Notre Dame...you have to live with it. You don't have to be happy about it. And when they go around flirting with other conferences it both reminds you of the bad deal you made, but also of what they could have done that would have been hugely helpful to the Big East!

I'm sure my wife feels the same way about still being married to me thirty years later. But she walks around blaming herself for her decision, not me for being who I am.

Tomatoe, tomato

 

[Carl Spackler]

I'm sure my wife feels the same way about still being married to me thirty years later. But she walks around blaming herself for her decision, not me for being who I am.

Tomatoe, tomato

Wait - here it comes soon....the next analogy from BL is going to be how he would love to sleep with who is it lately? Jessica Alba I think? But the reality is that no matter how much he wants to, it's not happening.

I love when that analogy comes up.

Anyway, you're a lucky guy - I guess I"m not at that stage of marriage yet, four kids, and many, many years later, my wife still blames me and tries to change me, I think it motivates her out of bed in the morning.....probably motivates her into bed too, come to think of it. Anyway......

is it football season yet?

 

[businesslawyer]

Wait - here it comes soon....the next analogy from BL is going to be how he would love to sleep with who is it lately? Jessica Alba I think? But the reality is that no matter how much he wants to, it's not happening.

I love when that analogy comes up.

Anyway, you're a lucky guy - I guess I"m not at that stage of marriage yet, four kids, and many, many years later, my wife still blames me and tries to change me, I think it motivates her out of bed in the morning.....probably motivates her into bed too, come to think of it. Anyway......

is it football season yet?

I never claimed to have a large inventory of funny lines.

 

[freescooter]

Wait - here it comes soon....the next analogy from BL is going to be how he would love to sleep with who is it lately? Jessica Alba I think? But the reality is that no matter how much he wants to, it's not happening.

I love when that analogy comes up.

Anyway, you're a lucky guy - I guess I"m not at that stage of marriage yet, four kids, and many, many years later, my wife still blames me and tries to change me, I think it motivates her out of bed in the morning.....probably motivates her into bed too, come to think of it. Anyway......

is it football season yet?

Well done Carl!

 

[ZooCougar]

E

Aside from tbe initial credibility the association brought the league, I suspect it has been more of an ego boost to most. Just look at the instant activity generated by any far fetched ND
rumor. Recent benefits have been hard to quantify.

More like impossible.

 

[ZooCougar]

But that is criticism of the Big East leadership, not Notre Dame. The Presidents of the schools are much more a fault for that dynamic than ND.

So you let Notre Dame off the hook for being morally hazardous with the overall health and well being of the conference? I fully understand that our Presidents have been imbecilic in their handling of both the affairs of the conference and Notre Dame's parasitic relationship. But that doesn't mean we can't hold Notre Dame accountable for not putting anything whatsoever on the table.

 

[businesslawyer]

So you let Notre Dame off the hook for being morally hazardous with the overall health and well being of the conference? I fully understand that our Presidents have been imbecilic in their handling of both the affairs of the conference and Notre Dame's parasitic relationship. But that doesn't mean we can't hold Notre Dame accountable for not putting anything whatsoever on the table.

I truly don't understand that theory. If Company A buys sugar from Company B at $1 a pound, which is the negotiated price that both folks thought was fair at the time, a non-party can "hold Company A accountable" if it turns out they got the better of the deal? What does that even mean?

 

[Husky68]

I truly don't understand that theory. If Company A buys sugar from Company B at $1 a pound, which is the negotiated price that both folks thought was fair at the time, a non-party can "hold Company A accountable" if it turns out they got the better of the deal? What does that even mean?

I would think the original poster when mentioning "we" hold ND accountable he means not a boneyard poster but Uconn and its partners. If the BE at one time decided to have an on going relationship with ND to allow ND to rent a parking space a for its Olympic teams in return for allowing the partnership to rub elbows with the pretty green lepreacon owned by ND so be it; until either side decides it isn't worth it. Temple found out what it was like when the BE decided it wasn't a good deal any more to rent space to Temple for its football team. Nothing keeping the BE from deciding that its no longer beneficial to rent space to the ND olympic sports.
A member of the BE (Uconn) can request the other partners to vote the renter (ND) no longer be allowed to rent a parking space for its Olympic teams (sure there is way to do this, most it could do is cost some money, no judge would make the BE keep ND's olympic sports). This is not a deal in perpetuity, just like ND can decide it no longer wants to rent; the BE can also decide it no longer wants a renter (ND).
If the renter (ND) is no longer worth having; get rid of them; if they want to offer more "rent" let them (ND) offer up something more.
Easy to do; change rules that if any BE team has an NCAA div 1a football team it must play in the BE to be a member of the BE for any sports.

 

[whaler11]

So you let Notre Dame off the hook for being morally hazardous with the overall health and well being of the conference? I fully understand that our Presidents have been imbecilic in their handling of both the affairs of the conference and Notre Dame's parasitic relationship. But that doesn't mean we can't hold Notre Dame accountable for not putting anything whatsoever on the table.

I don't know if Notre Dame flirts as much with other conferences as we see reported. I think the Big 12 and ACC fall over them and they have no intention of joining either. I see leagues trying to pressure Notre Dame and the Irish just sit back and watch.

I'm don't know if I agree that Notre Dame is a 'parasite'. They certainly helped the Big East in terms of bowl access and they carry their own weight in the sports where they compete in the league.

Notre Dame signed up for this arrangement, if the league's presidents didn't think it was a good deal they shouldn't have made it.

 

[whaler11]

I would think the original poster when mentioning "we" hold ND accountable he means not a boneyard poster but Uconn and its partners. If the BE at one time decided to have an on going relationship with ND to allow ND to rent a parking space a for its Olympic teams in return for allowing the partnership to rub elbows with the pretty green lepreacon owned by ND so be it; until either side decides it isn't worth it. Temple found out what it was like when the BE decided it wasn't a good deal any more to rent space to Temple for its football team. Nothing keeping the BE from deciding that its no longer beneficial to rent space to the ND olympic sports.
A member of the BE (Uconn) can request the other partners to vote the renter (ND) no longer be allowed to rent a parking space for its Olympic teams (sure there is way to do this, most it could do is cost some money, no judge would make the BE keep ND's olympic sports). This is not a deal in perpetuity, just like ND can decide it no longer wants to rent; the BE can also decide it no longer wants a renter (ND).
If the renter (ND) is no longer worth having; get rid of them; if they want to offer more "rent" let them (ND) offer up something more.
Easy to do; change rules that if any BE team has an NCAA div 1a football team it must play in the BE to be a member of the BE for any sports.

There is something that keeps the football schools from booting Notre Dame. If the football schools moved to remove Notre Dame the result is a full split. There is no in-between now. If the Big East told the Irish they have to join the football league... well I doubt you need to be told what the result of that would be.

Now you may think a split is the right move. I don't know because I don't have the same information that the university presidents have. I think sooner or later it will happen and there will be positive and negative aspects.

It's funny how much hatred there is for Notre Dame. At this point for the Big East the best thing is for the Irish to stay right where they are. If they make a move it just tips over more dominos that would damage the league. Now Notre Dame doing something may help UConn, but it would certainly hurt the Big East.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The ND hatred is so silly. They joined the 1 power 6 conference that had members that did not play FBS football as members of the league. I don't like certain things about the relationship, like the bowl selection issue, but it's honestly been a good fit for both parties.

I think that the problem the BE really faced was that the basketball schools didn't want more members playing basketball and the football schools didn't want the schools that were realistically available. So for different reasons the two factions basically decided to put off expansion until it was too late. TCU should have been invited like 2 years before they actually were. Houston was always a decent fit and I bet if we approached BYU before the defections they would have joined. Boise St. could have been in the mix as well.

Imagine if the old BE would have simply added TCU, BYU, Boise St., and Houston to the 8 members that we had. It would have been one of the toughest conferences in America. And we wouldn't have even needed Memphis, Temple, UCF, SDSU, or Navy.

 

[ZooCougar]

I truly don't understand that theory. If Company A buys sugar from Company B at $1 a pound, which is the negotiated price that both folks thought was fair at the time, a non-party can "hold Company A accountable" if it turns out they got the better of the deal? What does that even mean?

That's not a fair analogy. The relationship is not that simple. This is not a customer relationship we are talking about here.

 

[ZooCougar]

They are here because of a desire to preserve a balance of power between two different types of members.

I don't know if Notre Dame flirts as much with other conferences as we see reported. I think the Big 12 and ACC fall over them and they have no intention of joining either. I see leagues trying to pressure Notre Dame and the Irish just sit back and watch.

I'm don't know if I agree that Notre Dame is a 'parasite'. They certainly helped the Big East in terms of bowl access and they carry their own weight in the sports where they compete in the league.

Notre Dame signed up for this arrangement, if the league's presidents didn't think it was a good deal they shouldn't have made it.

 

[freescooter]

They are here because of a desire to preserve a balance of power between two different types of members.

I think that is partly true, but Notre Dame has been pretty consistent that they don't want to be part of the basketball half of the conference if there is a split. They have no long term interest in playing in a league of Seton Hall, Providence St Johns, Marquette and DePaul Georgetown and Villanova. If that's the choice, they might as well join the Horizon for everything but football. Save money on travel if nothing else. As I said, I suspect that in 1995 when ND joined it seemed to make sense to everyone. The Big East was in a bit of a down period in basketball and the football league was just getting off the ground. I would bet that secretly the Big East football presidents held out hope that eventually the Irish would come aboard, though it was never stated publicly. There was also a need for a bit of extra prestige on the basketball side with the Thompson, Massamino and Carneseca eras over or winding down and UConn not having completely emerged as the new national power yet. That the world has changed dramatically since 1995 is clear. Notre Dame is pretty much a middle of the road Big East hoop program, football rules the day, and they aren't part of it. You can hardly blame fans, at least, for asking the question as to whether this deal still makes sense for the organization.