Magnificent call to action by a college coach

[Fishy]

One more of these and then that's it from me - I'm sure most people are starting to feel the strain of thinking about and suffering over Newtown for the past four days and I want to be mindful of adding to it.

But this cat nailed it, just freaking nailed it. Pat Kelsey is the head coach of Winthrop. They played at Ohio State tonight and he used the OSU microphone in a way I think most of wish we could right now.

I agree with him right down to the point where he says that he doesn't know the answers - I don't know them, either. (Although, I think I have a good suggestion for a starting point.) But whatever those answers are, something has to change and if 20 toy-filled pink or blue bedrooms missing their little occupants isn't enough to cause change, it will never happen.

And if that's the case, God can wad this place up like Silly Putty and try again.

 

[mauconnfan]

Wow nice find.......nice job by the Winthrop coach, real nice and genuine too.

 

[TRest]

That statement is more incisive than the hours of broadcasting spewing from WTIC and other talk radio since Friday.

 

[phillionaire]

watching it right now on sportscenter. he hit the nail on the head.

 

[businesslawyer]

One more of these and then that's it from me - I'm sure most people are starting to feel the strain of thinking about and suffering over Newtown for the past four days and I want to be mindful of adding to it.

But this cat nailed it, just freaking nailed it. Pat Kelsey is the head coach of Winthrop. They played at Ohio State tonight and he used the OSU microphone in a way I think most of wish we could right now.

I agree with him right down to the point where he says that he doesn't know the answers - I don't know them, either. (Although, I think I have a good suggestion for a starting point.) But whatever those answers are, something has to change and if 20 toy-filled pink or blue bedrooms missing their little occupants isn't enough to cause change, it will never happen.

And if that's the case, God can wad this place up like Silly Putty and try again.

It was very well said.

We don't get to be "the greatest country ever" just because our parents and our textbooks tell us that that is where we live. You actually have to do stuff to earn the title. In "the greatest country ever," the massacre of twenty children would cause every decent human being to look at every belief they ever held seriously and thoughtfully to determine what they have to sacrifice to try to stop this from happening again.

Are we the greatest country ever? We may get something of an answer in how we react to this. I hope we react in a way that saying we are the greatest country ever is something that a rational person could strongly argue, and not just something that you believe in for the sake of believing it. But I am going to have to be shown that people aren't willing to cling to that statement/belief as a mantra while not actually being willing to sacrifice anything of importance to them to make it happen.

 

[Charlie Brown]

It's emotion versus reason. It's mob mentality versus data assessment.
Take it one step at a time.
Let's say you go the route of the UK and ban virtually all long guns and all hand guns.
Then you end up like the UK with virtually zero "mass killings."
So goal achieved, right?
We've now "protected" the next group of innocents - let's say it's 100 a year in a mass slaughter, per year.
Everybody feels good, right?
What's given up?
In the UK, post gun control, as of 2009, there are 2034 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants. That's the worst in Europe, by a lot.
By comparison, the U.S. has 466, or about a fourth.
Sure, the numbers aren't perfect, but they tell the story. If you figure that banning of all guns in the U.S. would result in a jump of about 1,500 violent crimes, per 100,000 people per year, then the first price you pay for banning guns is an increase of about 4.5 million violent crimes per year in the united states.

Seems like a huge number? Right?

Criminals in the U.S. have to worry about victims being armed. In the U.K., the woman walking down the street is, by law, unarmed. Violent crime is much less risky.

Give and take. Giving up liberty for security and deserving neither and all that.

 

[Palatine]

It was very well said.

We don't get to be "the greatest country ever" just because our parents and our textbooks tell us that that is where we live. You actually have to do stuff to earn the title. In "the greatest country ever," the massacre of twenty children would cause every decent human being to look at every belief they ever held seriously and thoughtfully to determine what they have to sacrifice to try to stop this from happening again.

Are we the greatest country ever? We may get something of an answer in how we react to this. I hope we react in a way that saying we are the greatest country ever is something that a rational person could strongly argue, and not just something that you believe in for the sake of believing it. But I am going to have to be shown that people aren't willing to cling to that statement/belief as a mantra while not actually being willing to sacrifice anything of importance to them to make it happen.

Don't blame America for being full of humans. War, violence, senseless murder and pure evil are human problems.

The problem is the species.

 

[Dove]

Thanks for posting this, Fishy

 

[businesslawyer]

Don't blame America for being full of humans. War, violence, senseless murder and pure evil are human problems.

The problem is the species.

See, that is the all or nothing crap spouted by people who aren't interested in giving up anything to give children safe. Do you really want to compare are numbers of murders per 1,000,000 residents to that of other civilized countries? No, of course not. You'll just pretend we get to be the best country in the world for doing nothing just because no other country is perfect either.

For those with triple digit I.Q.s,, being the best country in the world requires you to outperform your peer group. Just like you only get to be the best football team by being better than your peers.

 

[ctchamps]

See, that is the all or nothing crap spouted by people who aren't interested in giving up anything to give children safe. Do you really want to compare are numbers of murders per 1,000,000 residents to that of other civilized countries? No, of course not. You'll just pretend we get to be the best country in the world for doing nothing just because no other country is perfect either.

For those with triple digit I.Q.s,, being the best country in the world requires you to outperform your peer group. Just like you only get to be the best football team by being better than your peers.

I took it he wasn't just focused on one issue but violence worldwide, which most of us refuse to put on the front burner. For instance the million and a half kids/year worldwide around ten y.o.a. (mostly girls) who are kidnapped or sold by their parents to servitude or sexual slavery. Most don't live past 15. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

http://www.freep.com/article/20121219/NEWS07/121219020/mass-killers

Mass killing in the USA is a common thing. In fact, it happens once every 2 weeks. We got serious issues folks. With economy on the decline, it will only get worse as more desperate people getting more violent. This is a cultural thing. Things like violent video games, Hollywood movies, guns in the USA, divorces, and drugs are all part of the problem. America is at a major cross road. If we don't wake up soon, it will only get worse. I imagine it will be much, much worse than now.

 

[Huskies4ever]

See, that is the all or nothing crap spouted by people who aren't interested in giving up anything to give children safe. Do you really want to compare are numbers of murders per 1,000,000 residents to that of other civilized countries? No, of course not. You'll just pretend we get to be the best country in the world for doing nothing just because no other country is perfect either.

For those with triple digit I.Q.s,, being the best country in the world requires you to outperform your peer group. Just like you only get to be the best football team by being better than your peers.

Hey, he was mearly stating that humans are the only animals that rape, torture. and slaughter - not only each other - all other life on, and, earth itself. To err is to be human. There may not be enough to stop the Hitlers, Stalins, Husseins, Dahmers, Bundys, Mansons, Lansahs, etc., or maybe there is. But you cannot take away the evil side of mankind. If someone wants to slaughter an innocent child, they will, unfortunately

 

[businesslawyer]

Hey, he was mearly stating that humans are the only animals that rape, torture. and slaughter - not only each other - all other life on, and, earth itself. To err is to be human. There may not be enough to stop the Hitlers, Stalins, Husseins, Dahmers, Bundys, Mansons, Lansahs, etc., or maybe there is. But you cannot take away the evil side of mankind. If someone wants to slaughter an innocent child, they will, unfortunately

No. You don't get away with this all or nothing crap. Not any more. Good people won't let you.

We cannot take away the evil side of mankind, and if someone really wants to slaughter an innocent child hard enough we will not be able to stop them. But we can reduce the number of incidents. And we can not use the excuse that we can't stop them all to not act to reduce the number of incidents.

 

[Palatine]

See, that is the all or nothing crap spouted by people who aren't interested in giving up anything to give children safe. Do you really want to compare are numbers of murders per 1,000,000 residents to that of other civilized countries? No, of course not. You'll just pretend we get to be the best country in the world for doing nothing just because no other country is perfect either.

For those with triple digit I.Q.s,, being the best country in the world requires you to outperform your peer group. Just like you only get to be the best football team by being better than your peers.

I'm well aware of the murder rate in Japan. That nothing to do with my post. I have worked for the Brady Project, so please stay away from ad hominem attacks.

You are inferring this is an American problem. It is not. That is lazy analysis.

 

[businesslawyer]

Of course it is an American problem. Children were killed in America. The fact that the problem is not unique to America is totally irrelevant to it being an American problem.

Here, folks, you have it in a nutshell. I don't believe that violent movies have anything to do with these tragedies, and have never seen evidence that they do, but am perfectly happy to discuss what can be done to limit, restrict and/or marginalize gratuitous violence from Hollywood if that is needed to get serious gun reform. Likewise, I am willing to look at limiting the privacy rights of those with mental illness if that is part of the compromise and we can show that in balance that makes sense. And while I do this, those like Palatine will just whine about how regulating guns won't totally solve violence in the world so why bother.

An objective observer would have no trouble looking at the dichotomy and concluding who really loves their country.

 

[ctchamps]

Of course it is an American problem. Children were killed in America. The fact that the problem is not unique to America is totally irrelevant to it being an American problem.

Here, folks, you have it in a nutshell. I don't believe that violent movies have anything to do with these tragedies, and have never seen evidence that they do, but am perfectly happy to discuss what can be done to limit, restrict and/or marginalize gratuitous violence from Hollywood if that is needed to get serious gun reform. Likewise, I am willing to look at limiting the privacy rights of those with mental illness if that is part of the compromise and we can show that in balance that makes sense. And while I do this, those like Palatine will just whine about how regulating guns won't totally solve violence in the world so why bother.

An objective observer would have no trouble looking at the dichotomy and concluding who really loves their country.

I don't know Palatine. Maybe you do. So your reaction may be something you are personally are uncomfortable with him. Or maybe gun control is a hot button topic for you.

But the two issues are not mutually exclusive. There is a problem with mass murders from guns in this country that has to be dealt with and there are huge problems worldwide that this country fortunately has avoided or needs to examine.

Pointing out those problems isn't necessarily attempting to divert attention away from the issue at hand. It is part of the equation. Because if mental health is part of the issue, then understanding many negative behaviors and what precipitates them, whether in the US or India, contributes to better and better solutions.

 

[CL82]

This.

There clearly seems to be something different happening. This call to look at the problem thoughtfully and thoroughly is exactly the kind of thought process that we need. What I worry about is silly cosmetic, 'political' changes that will do nothing except give politicians a talking point or a 'wedge' issue but do nothing to fix the problem such as a enacting a law to ban some firearms because they look scary, rather than because of their capacity to facilitate this kind of horrific act. This terrible event becomes all the more tragic if it is not a catalyst for a serious review this emerging trend.

While I appreciate some posters absolute certainty about what needs to be done, I don't share it because we don't yet fully understand all the elements that led to this event. I caution people to ratchet down the sanctimony, as that doesn't advance the national conversation that we need to have. It just polarizes people, with everyone retreating into comfortable positions that are no more likely to resolve this issue now then they were prior to this shooting.

I believe that Sandy Hook is an opportunity to have this conversation, in a serious, thoughtful and respectful manner but more importantly, I believe that it is a unique opportunity to have it in an effective manner. Have circumstances created a situation that give rise to a new alienated personality type that is more prone to this type of crime or has access to weapons merely allowed such individuals to be more deadly? Do we have the skills to identify individuals who are at risk for this type of behavior and wisdom to help them to become more socially integrated to prevent these types of events? I don't know the answers, but I think Adam Lanza and the horrific act he committed may well give us the ability to look at these issues more thoughtfully.

 

[RoderickSpode]

http://www.freep.com/article/20121219/NEWS07/121219020/mass-killers

Mass killing in the USA is a common thing. In fact, it happens once every 2 weeks. We got serious issues folks. With economy on the decline, it will only get worse as more desperate people getting more violent. This is a cultural thing. Things like violent video games, Hollywood movies, guns in the USA, divorces, and drugs are all part of the problem...

If anything, this chart indicates zero correlation between video game consumption and gun violence, so it doesn't really support your point.

 

[8893]

If anything, this chart indicates zero correlation between video game consumption and gun violence, so it doesn't really support your point.

Until this tragedy, I was blissfully unaware of the nature of these violent video games. I've never been a gamer and have only daughters, so I really never came across them. After seeing what they look like and do, I'm floored. I simply cannot believe or understand the depravity it celebrates and encourages. No, they won't cause most players to want to act based on them, but if you've ever known a kid who is "on the spectrum" for autism, especially Asperger's like this kid supposedly had, you can see how their brains are almost programmable, and very much a function of the media and other items to which they are exposed. One that I know has a Rainmain-like ability with sports stats, especially baseball, because that's mostly what he's exposed to. Another's parents have made an effort to keep him away from computers and TV, precisely because they saw how he would process and absorb everything with a uniquely singular focus and ability; so they have him working with books and real life, 3-dimensional items. He is a science whiz, obsessed with dinosaurs in particular. Now take these same kids and allow them to play these violent video games for days and weeks on end, as this kid apparently did in his basement for the weeks leading up to this? Well, I don't need a chart to make that correlation.

These things should be labeled with warnings like , and similarly restricted imo.