Louisville's Move To The ACC Suddenly 'Not A Done Deal'

[btstimpy]

You keep trying to self-soothe with that lint of thought.

The Big Ten already hands out $10M per team more than the ACC does.

The ACC is essentially hard-capped for the next 13 years - the Big Ten has nothing but open sky in terms of revenue.

I said that the financial advantage was the only advantage. But the Big Ten has always had more money, and they regularly lose the Rose Bowl and rarely are a threat for a National Championship in football, and have had a long dry spell in basketball. Ohio State is rolling through that schedule and will probably sit behind some 1 loss teams in the BCS because the Big Ten is such a weak football conference.

The high school football talent concentration has moved out of the Big Ten states and into the ACC, SEC, and PAC 12 states along with Texas. Maryland obviously did not make this move for football. They are leaving the football recruiting hotbeds behind to go to the Midwest where they have no recruiting presence or experience, and the quality high schol talent is diminishing in the midwest. Ask Ron Zook at Illinois. He's an expert on it. He's been at Florida and at Illinois. It's less of an issue with Urban Myer because there is some talent in Ohio, and he'll get it all.

In basketball, Maryland will find some good competition with Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Indiana. But they were not hurting for basketball competition in the ACC, especially now. So this move was not made for basketball either.

The ACC isn't capped for 13 years. There are 2 5 year look ins with the first being in 2017. And your gap numbers are exaggerated. With a declining football product in the Big Ten, and demographics will force the continued decline, that open sky might add some rain clouds really quick. Yes the Big Ten is full of big stadiums and large alumni bases, but Penn State's about due to consider tarping parts of their stadium. Can't fill it these days.

 

[Fishy]

No, you're up against a pretty hard ceiling.

You have no network, you're not adding membership or inventory and you have no leverage.

There's simply no reason for ESPN to pay more for something they've already locked down.

 

[justinslot]

You might want to check out your ACC-BE 'raid' history. You own POS former BE commish, Mike Tranghese, tried to sell your league down the river as far back as 1998. So, it wasn't all on Swofford.

As far as UMD is concerned, they can leave now, if they want. Nobody in the ACC cares. Not everybody in the B1G is welcoming them with open arms, anyway. After a few seasons, B1G fans will find out just how fair-weathered and downright inhosipitible Terp fans are. Good riddance.

Oh Tranghese's incompetence is well-documented. That doesn't make Swofford any less of a snake.

 

[PSUproUConn]

Penn Stater born and raised in Philly living in Virginia Beach for the past five years, very much hope UConn gets invited to the B1G as it's safe to say PSU isnt leaving anytime soon and in my opinion they are a perfect institute to match the B1g's Northern identity and their northeastern aspirations, but good God the ACC homers need to give it a rest or at least take it to another forum. I mean there's page after page of Cavalier fans bashing Rutgers and Maryland on their Athletic Departmets, is UVA really more important than either of those schools athletically? The ACC and the B1G are similarly competitive in football at this point with one school carrying the conference banner and everybody else watching (ie as football conferences they both suck), but enough with the inferiority complexes. I truly hope UConn finds a home and was befuddled when they were not the next addition to the ACC. Been following this board since I was sitting in Afghanistan a year ago and can say at this point I route for UConn sports.

 

[itgoeslike]

You might want to look up those teams' records vs FSU, before you put some of their names in your post.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/acc/florida_state/opponents.php

I wasn't using their all time record against FSU as a measuring stick to suggest that Maryland Football is pretty comparable to the majority of the conference, but I think you proved my point. Wake Forest 6-24, Duke 0-16, UNC 2-15, GTech 9-13, NC State 11-21, BC 4-6, Virginia 3-13, Syracuse 1-5. . .And while GTech, BC and PITT have had some competence, it was, for the most part, before their current graduating class was born. The most interesting part of the link is that the only team to really own FSU since they started playing football in 1947 was Houston, who beat them 12 out of 14 times.

 

[itgoeslike]

They are certainly not...as an FSU fan, I have watched the gawd awful Terps go 2-20 against FSU including that 63-0 goodbye present FSU put on them this year....a horrible conference opponent.

I'm not here to defend Maryland football, but rather point out their recent history is comparable to the majority of the ACC, (see my previous post). Further proof is that if Oregon hadn't choked, an undefeated (and arguably better) FSU likely wouldn't be playing for a NC. You know that.

 

[B1GALUM]

Yes the Big Ten is full of big stadiums and large alumni bases, but Penn State's about due to consider tarping parts of their stadium. Can't fill it these days.

People in glass houses ...

It's been tough for Atlantic Coast Conference schools to fill their stadiums — even during one of the league's best seasons on the field in years.

ACC stadiums have been less than 85 percent full this season, according to STATS LLC. That's the smallest number since the league expanded in 2004, and that's despite having three teams in the top 10 in the rankings.

"It takes a great fan to come to games now," said Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe, whose team lost at Miami last week before thousands of vacant orange seats. "Everywhere we go, we see empty seats."

Attendance in the ACC has been declining every year since 2007, when the stadiums were 93 percent full.

That number dipped to 88 percent in 2010 and fell to 85 percent last year, according to STATS.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ns-a-struggle.html#.Un-R40Yo6Uk#storylink=cpy

 

[upstater]

Over the last decade, I was always of the opinion that the ACC, with its basketball first mentality, was best for UConn. But I don't feel that way anymore. I really am beginning to believe that with the enlarging of the school and the change in B1G hoops, that the B1G is a much better fit. Travel is the same.

 

[B1GALUM]

Ohio State is rolling through that schedule and will probably sit behind some 1 loss teams in the BCS because the Big Ten is such a weak football conference..

My apologizes in advance to UCFBfan for the argument ...

I am objective enough to recognize that Florida State has a compelling argument to be ranked ahead of Ohio State. Florida State has a fantastic team. However, the ACC as a conference is not exactly a football juggernaut. If Alabama goes undefeated and Florida State goes undefeated, then there is your national championship game and I am fine with that pairing and would love to see it. However, Ohio State is going to be fine If we remain unbeaten in our regular season schedule and then face and defeat a one loss and ranked Michigan State team, with one of the nation's best defenses, in the B1G championship. We will have a great shot at playing in the national championship game if Alabama or Florida State stumble. I think a 1 loss SEC team is about the only 1 loss team that could make an argument to be ahead of an undefeated Florida State, Ohio State or Baylor.

 

[B1GALUM]

Over the last decade, I was always of the opinion that the ACC, with its basketball first mentality, was best for UConn. But I don't feel that way anymore. I really am beginning to believe that with the enlarging of the school and the change in B1G hoops, that the B1G is a much better fit. Travel is the same.

As a public research and flagship university, I think UConn would fit well in the B1G and the B1G would benefit from the inclusion of UConn. It is a d*#n shame that some in the B1G cannot let go of a de facto AAU membership requirement for the entrance of new members.

 

[upstater]

As a public research and flagship university, I think UConn would fit well in the B1G and the B1G would benefit from the inclusion of UConn. It is a d*#n shame that some in the B1G cannot let go of a de facto AAU membership requirement for the entrance of new members.

The AAU thing will only be used for schools that don't want UConn. Those same schools would probably overlook it for other schools. That's UConn's problem, that it doesn't have a sufficient football program to override those concerns. If you see the emails from PSU's, Northwestern's and Iowa's presidents to Nebraska's president(unsealed with a FOIA request) long before Nebraska joined the B1G, it was clear that everyone in the B1G knew that Nebraska was in the process of being ousted from the AAU (mainly by the Pres's of Michigan and Wisconsin) prior to joining the B1G. The former Pres. of Wisconsin, now Pres. of Amherst College, said that in the discussion of Nebraska's candidacy, she never once recalled anyone mentioning its AAU status.

Now, that is not to say that AAU status won't be a topline item with any other candidate because it could be that people avoided talking AAU when discussing Nebraska because they knew it was a minefield.

 

[SouthronCross]

No, you're up against a pretty hard ceiling.

You have no network, you're not adding membership or inventory and you have no leverage.

There's simply no reason for ESPN to pay more for something they've already locked down.

So, the 5-year 'look-in'worked into the ACC's contract with ESPN is of no worth to us? Good to know.

 

[SouthronCross]

Oh Tranghese's incompetence is well-documented. That doesn't make Swofford any less of a snake.

Which is why I said it isn't all on Swofford. He is not guiltless. Not by any means. But, he's not the sole destroyer of the Big East, either.

 

[B1GALUM]

The AAU thing will only be used for schools that don't want UConn. Those same schools would probably overlook it for other schools. That's UConn's problem, that it doesn't have a sufficient football program to override those concerns. If you see the emails from PSU's, Northwestern's and Iowa's presidents to Nebraska's president(unsealed with a FOIA request) long before Nebraska joined the B1G, it was clear that everyone in the B1G knew that Nebraska was in the process of being ousted from the AAU (mainly by the Pres's of Michigan and Wisconsin) prior to joining the B1G. The former Pres. of Wisconsin, now Pres. of Amherst College, said that in the discussion of Nebraska's candidacy, she never once recalled anyone mentioning its AAU status.

Now, that is not to say that AAU status won't be a topline item with any other candidate because it could be that people avoided talking AAU when discussing Nebraska because they knew it was a minefield.

Point taken. I just think the basketball success of UConn combined with the mission and the location of the university should override the status of the football program. I think there is much about UConn that fits with the B1G and its goals.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Over the last decade, I was always of the opinion that the ACC, with its basketball first mentality, was best for UConn. But I don't feel that way anymore. I really am beginning to believe that with the enlarging of the school and the change in B1G hoops, that the B1G is a much better fit. Travel is the same.

No to mention the opportunity, assuming the B1G divided into some form of an east/west split, having the opportunity to drive the 4 hours from Jersey to tailgate in State College every other year. Maybe even save some dough for a road trip to Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Madison, and Minneapolis from time to time.

 

[Fishy]

So, the 5-year 'look-in'worked into the ACC's contract with ESPN is of no worth to us? Good to know.

Pray tell, why would ESPN offer more cash for something they currently own?

Just...because?

Where's the leverage? The bill for the Big East massacre is already figured into the contract. There's no network on the horizon. Every school is now locked into the conference until 2027. The ACC's short game has been played and now ESPN runs the long game.

 

[zls44]

Pray tell, why would ESPN offer more cash for something they currently own?

Just...because?

Where's the leverage? The bill for the Big East massacre is already figured into the contract. There's no network on the horizon. Every school is now locked into the conference until 2027. The ACC's short game has been played and now ESPN runs the long game.

I have never heard an argument other than "just because". It's made by people who buy into the ACC hype con, so they're starting out delusional and just going further under the kool-aid induced stupor.

There's no reason. It makes zero sense. It's like saying Southwest should have opted out of its brilliant fuel deal that allowed its business to explode nationwide just because everyone else was paying higher fuel rates.

 

[billybud]

Pray tell, why would ESPN offer more cash for something they currently own?

Just...because?

Where's the leverage? The bill for the Big East massacre is already figured into the contract. There's no network on the horizon. Every school is now locked into the conference until 2027. The ACC's short game has been played and now ESPN runs the long game.

I have never heard an argument other than "just because". It's made by people who buy into the ACC hype con, so they're starting out delusional and just going further under the kool-aid induced stupor.

There's no reason. It makes zero sense. It's like saying Southwest should have opted out of its brilliant fuel deal that allowed its business to explode nationwide just because everyone else was paying higher fuel rates.

No..it doesn't make much sense for ESPN to freely offer more for the content that they already have contracted for...yet that is what ESPN has done.

Like when they continued to pay the Big 12 the same money even after A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou defected...after the loss of a Big 12 CCG game to televise.

What the ACC has in the look in provision is a right, not to renogotiate the contract, but the right to review growth of value with ESPN and to take to arbitration if an agreement can not be reached with ESPN.

 

[billybud]

Clemson AD's comments...

"… For example this new contract has two look-in windows- one at five years and one at 10 years. The purpose of that – in talking with ESPN people and our people in the same room – is to look at the end of five years where are we- competitively, what’s our performance, and does it merit a significant increase in the rights fee."

 

[husky210]

Penn Stater born and raised in Philly living in Virginia Beach for the past five years, very much hope UConn gets invited to the B1G as it's safe to say PSU isnt leaving anytime soon and in my opinion they are a perfect institute to match the B1g's Northern identity and their northeastern aspirations, but good God the ACC homers need to give it a rest or at least take it to another forum. I mean there's page after page of Cavalier fans bashing Rutgers and Maryland on their Athletic Departmets, is UVA really more important than either of those schools athletically? The ACC and the B1G are similarly competitive in football at this point with one school carrying the conference banner and everybody else watching (ie as football conferences they both suck), but enough with the inferiority complexes. I truly hope UConn finds a home and was befuddled when they were not the next addition to the ACC. Been following this board since I was sitting in Afghanistan a year ago and can say at this point I route for UConn sports.

Welcome to our board! And thanks every much for your service!

 

[zls44]

Like when they continued to pay the Big 12 the same money even after A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou defected...after the loss of a Big 12 CCG game to televise.

The two situations were drastically, DRASTICALLY different.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Clemson AD's comments...

"… For example this new contract has two look-in windows- one at five years and one at 10 years. The purpose of that – in talking with ESPN people and our people in the same room – is to look at the end of five years where are we- competitively, what’s our performance, and does it merit a significant increase in the rights fee."

ACC: "can we have more money please"?
ESPN: "go pound sand, you have no other options"
ACC: "ok"

 

[Marty Jackson]

People in glass houses ...

It's been tough for Atlantic Coast Conference schools to fill their stadiums — even during one of the league's best seasons on the field in years.

ACC stadiums have been less than 85 percent full this season, according to STATS LLC. That's the smallest number since the league expanded in 2004, and that's despite having three teams in the top 10 in the rankings.

"It takes a great fan to come to games now," said Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe, whose team lost at Miami last week before thousands of vacant orange seats. "Everywhere we go, we see empty seats."

Attendance in the ACC has been declining every year since 2007, when the stadiums were 93 percent full.

That number dipped to 88 percent in 2010 and fell to 85 percent last year, according to STATS.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ns-a-struggle.html#.Un-R40Yo6Uk#storylink=cpy

in all fairness, the NFL and many other pro-sports are seeing the same trends.

 

[billybud]

The two situations were drastically, DRASTICALLY different.

D'Oh? But ESPN has a history of paying more money for inventory it already owns....and. even more so then the Big 12, the ESPN has a reason for seeing the ACC thrive...

 

[SouthronCross]

Pray tell, why would ESPN offer more cash for something they currently own?

Just...because?

No, the look-ins were negotiated into the contract after Pitt and Syracuse were added, IIRC. It is very dependent upon performance on the field, and, the court. If the league performs well enough, it will get paid. Will it still be less than the SEC or B1G? Yes, most likely it will. But, it will still be closer to theirs than what it was.

Where's the leverage? The bill for the Big East massacre is already figured into the contract. There's no network on the horizon. Every school is now locked into the conference until 2027. The ACC's short game has been played and now ESPN runs the long game.

You keep saying that there is no ACCN on the horizon, when nobody knows at this point. The SECN was 2-3 years in the making, and, they began exploring that in 2011. The ACC just began talking to ESPN about it. You are correct, in that it might not ever come to fruition. But, then again, it might. By the time an ACCN comes to fruition, conference networks might not be quite so valuable, especially if a la carte cable becomes reality.

 

[SouthronCross]

I have never heard an argument other than "just because". It's made by people who buy into the ACC hype con, so they're starting out delusional and just going further under the kool-aid induced stupor.

Which ACC fan who posts here on a regular basis says that an ACCN is a certainty? None that I can recall straight away.

There's no reason. It makes zero sense. It's like saying Southwest should have opted out of its brilliant fuel deal that allowed its business to explode nationwide just because everyone else was paying higher fuel rates.

ESPN also owns the SEC lock, stock, and barrel now, too. Is the SECN going to be a mistake for them, too?

 

[SouthronCross]

ACC: "can we have more money please"?
ESPN: "go pound sand, you have no other options"
ACC: "ok"

You really think ESPN is going to tell the ACC that? I don't. But, thats just me.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

The only way the ACC gets more money out of ESPN is to add more schools just before the next look in window.

 

[Fishy]

I keep saying there is no ACC Network because there is no ACC Network and the conference doesn't own the rights to anything that might enable a network.

I would dearly love the ACC to begin their own network because they'd likely stumble over the fact that their closest member to New York City is Boston College and that's not a good thing.

However, our circumstances have turned us in the sports world's most perfect realists. (Ignore the people who think we're a cinch for the Big Ten - they sniff glue.)

The ACC would have to buy rights back. They would have to have ESPN create a network that largely would be in competition with the SEC Network...which ESPN owns.

And so, in keeping with our perfect nightmare, the ACC Network is a fantasy.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I keep saying there is no ACC Network because there is no ACC Network and the conference doesn't own the rights to anything that might enable a network.

I would dearly love the ACC to begin their own network because they'd likely stumble over the fact that their closest member to New York City is Boston College and that's not a good thing.

However, our circumstances have turned us in the sports world's most perfect realists. (Ignore the people who think we're a cinch for the Big Ten - they sniff glue.)

The ACC would have to buy rights back. They would have to have ESPN create a network that largely would be in competition with the SEC Network...which ESPN owns.

And so, in keeping with our perfect nightmare, the ACC Network is a fantasy.

Fishy, if the nightmare really was perfect both Jeff Hathaway and Paul Pasqualoni would still be working for the school.