Louisville

[upstater]

UConn spent a total of $42 million on the Shenkman training center and Burton facility. Less than 20% was raised in private money.

The two football buildings cost $48 million to construct, and taxpayers paid $31 million from the 21st Century UConn construction program - meaning more than 60 percent of the total.

 

[BobbyPs Ghost]

What are you arguing here?

The point I was making was clear. UConn and many other schools count donations as revenue for the AD. When you look at Ville's breakdown, it was including this revenue under basketball.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

I was making the point that the donations for a particular sport are allocated to that sport's revenue total - football donations go to the football revenue total, etc. Unless I misunderstood, you indicated that Louisville put all donations for all sports under the basketball total for the purpose of artificially inflating that total alone.

 

[upstater]

I was making the point that the donations for a particular sport are allocated to that sport's revenue total - football donations go to the football revenue total, etc. Unless I misunderstood, you indicated that Louisville put all donations for all sports under the basketball total for the purpose of artificially inflating that total alone.

No, what I was saying is that most schools don't do this. If you look at the accounts, most schools have donations under AD revenue. For instance, U. Texas doesn't have a foundation for football. They have something called the Longhorn Foundation which is a foundation for all sports. And that's where they count that revenue. This is why, in comparing schools, I always tend to look at total athletic department revenue (noting direct subsidies) instead of individual sports.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I have no idea what possible accounting gymnastics may have happened at Louisville to make them look good on paper. some interesting stuff here. my knowledge of accounting, is that I send all the papers I need to send, to my accountant, and then get a ridiculous bill to pay. But I pay it, b/c the guy I use is a forensic accountant that gets hired to do audits and stuff, private, and local or fed govt......so I know my books are right.

It sure seems, that if I grasp a bit of what's been discussed, it appears that the books at Louisville, have been adjusted in such a way, that sports like basketball, and football, end up at the top of lists that media people compile regularly, to fill their information voids...lists like "top revenue programs", etc.

In that sense, it most certainly is smart PR by Louisville, to do that.

In the grand scheme of things, Louisville has what - an 18 year head start on us, when it comes to being left out in the wilderness? Tom Jurich, wasn't born old and wise. He's been trying to get Louisville back into the "in" crowd for nearly two decades. Louisville got cut out of the "in" crowd back in the first great migration of 1-A football schools back when UCONN upgrading to 1-A football, was still just an idea. THey were lucky, (just like we were lucky), that the Big EAst conference existed, and had it's priorities lined up the way they were. Because without the Big East, Louisville, doesn't get their invite to the "in" crowd in 2004, and neither does UCONN in 1997.

UCONN officials, can learn a lot, from TCU and Louisville people, and how they've operated their schools for the past 20 years, because those two schools are essentially the only ones out there, that have lost as much as we have in the past, when it comes to athletics, and football, and also found a way back in.

As for revenue, all I know is that there is income and expense when you run anything. I honestly don't know anything about UCONNs AD revenue streams when it comes to income and expense. Where does the income come from? how does it break down? What's it used for? I don't know.

But I do know that in the past, they've kind of made a point of indicating that the AD supports not only the varsity sports, but also covers all the expenses for the on-campus intramural sports programs, which I know are extensive, and usually, the department on the books, if I'm not mistaken, pretty much ends up breaking even with income and expense.

I don't know how many deparments across the country that do that, support all on-campus intramura stuff, as well as varsity, maybe they all do, I do know, that they've made a point of telling people that in the past.

 

[upstater]

I have no idea what possible accounting gymnastics may have happened at Louisville to make them look good on paper. some interesting stuff here. my knowledge of accounting, is that I send all the papers I need to send, to my accountant, and then get a ridiculous bill to pay. But I pay it, b/c the guy I use is a forensic accountant that gets hired to do audits and stuff, private, and local or fed govt......so I know my books are right.

It sure seems, that if I grasp a bit of what's been discussed, it appears that the books at Louisville, have been adjusted in such a way, that sports like basketball, and football, end up at the top of lists that media people compile regularly, to fill their information voids...lists like "top revenue programs", etc.

In that sense, it most certainly is smart PR by Louisville, to do that.

In the grand scheme of things, Louisville has what - an 18 year head start on us, when it comes to being left out in the wilderness? Tom Jurich, wasn't born old and wise. He's been trying to get Louisville back into the "in" crowd for nearly two decades. Louisville got cut out of the "in" crowd back in the first great migration of 1-A football schools back when UCONN upgrading to 1-A football, was still just an idea. THey were lucky, (just like we were lucky), that the Big EAst conference existed, and had it's priorities lined up the way they were. Because without the Big East, Louisville, doesn't get their invite to the "in" crowd in 2004, and neither does UCONN in 1997.

UCONN officials, can learn a lot, from TCU and Louisville people, and how they've operated their schools for the past 20 years, because those two schools are essentially the only ones out there, that have lost as much as we have in the past, when it comes to athletics, and football, and also found a way back in.

As for revenue, all I know is that there is income and expense when you run anything. I honestly don't know anything about UCONNs AD revenue streams when it comes to income and expense. Where does the income come from? how does it break down? What's it used for? I don't know.

But I do know that in the past, they've kind of made a point of indicating that the AD supports not only the varsity sports, but also covers all the expenses for the on-campus intramural sports programs, which I know are extensive, and usually, the department on the books, if I'm not mistaken, pretty much ends up breaking even with income and expense.

I don't know how many deparments across the country that do that, support all on-campus intramura stuff, as well as varsity, maybe they all do, I do know, that they've made a point of telling people that in the past.

Yes, you've gotten the gist of what I've been saying. Louisville has gotten good PR by loading royalty and donation revs into individual sports, instead of counting them for the whole AD, as most schools do. UConn basically was doing what most did. Ville was the outlier. I doubt they impressed other ADs or Presidents in doing that, but they surely impressed the media--such as Forbes, which is a magazine that now regularly sells its name so any yahoo can compile an idiotic list.

The revenue streams are available at the databases at USAToday and Indystar. They typically include everything you can imagine, in separate categories. As for expenditures, they also show things such as direct institutional subsidy (often in the tens of millions, as at UConn) and student fees (about 5 million or so). In this respect, unless you're running the most luxurious intramural sports system in history, we can guess that the cost is well below the subsidy. After all, Rhode Island's total budget for ALL sports is under $10 million. I'm guessing a school's intramural program should be cheaper to run than a school like URI's total sports program.

There are some expenses not included under the AD's budget, such as building construction and facility maintenance. A big cost, obviously. The cost per student subsidy isn't included either (though it's figured into academic departmental budgets). Lastly, all university royalties when it comes to branding are included as AD revenue. About the only thing that I can think of that still remains murky is the salary for tutoring and training staff for athletics, but since these people are servicing student-athletes, absolutely no one should ever complain about that.

 

[Carl Spackler]

All of that stuff makes my brain turn into a glazed donut, upstater. Glazed. All I know, is that as long as it doesn't actually amount to anything more than reshuffling the papers, and line items on the spreadsheets, and doesn't actually change anything of substance.....then adjusting the accounting in the bookkeeping for the athletic department, such that UCONN always ends up at the top of the media compiled lists for top revenue, most valueable, etc media lists - then I'm all for it.

 

[omniorange]

No, what I was saying is that most schools don't do this. If you look at the accounts, most schools have donations under AD revenue. For instance, U. Texas doesn't have a foundation for football. They have something called the Longhorn Foundation which is a foundation for all sports. And that's where they count that revenue. This is why, in comparing schools, I always tend to look at total athletic department revenue (noting direct subsidies) instead of individual sports.

Yes and No. If a school makes someone be a particular donor level in order to get favorable season tickets in a particular sport than it's possible to see that donation included with that particular sports revenue.

However, if your overall point is that because different schools interpret the individual reporting lines differently that one can't compare individual sports revenue at that site, I would concur. Which is why the best one can do in terms of the Equity site is to look at overall revenue and overall expenses and know that those that report an equal balance in both are basically operating in the red and have fudged the figures to get to even and those that generated a profit probably generated more profit than listed.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[NEforceUConn]

blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, Luck and Jurick are dicks.

 

[Dann]

No they are go getters. Aggressive minded hungry people. They bring bread home. Uconn lacks that. Nice guys finish last and the early bird gets the worm and all of those freaking quotes. We have a lady in a midlife crisis dreaming ivy and a guy who likes donuts.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Yes and No. If a school makes someone be a particular donor level in order to get favorable season tickets in a particular sport than it's possible to see that donation included with that particular sports revenue.

However, if your overall point is that because different schools interpret the individual reporting lines differently that one can't compare individual sports revenue at that site, I would concur. Which is why the best one can do in terms of the Equity site is to look at overall revenue and overall expenses and know that those that report an equal balance in both are basically operating in the red and have fudged the figures to get to even and those that generated a profit probably generated more profit than listed.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil, are you British? I ask because I want to incorporate cheers into my diction, but I'm not sure I can pull it off.

 

[TRest]

Neil, are you British? I ask because I want to incorporate cheers into my diction, but I'm not sure I can pull it off.

He is British on the internet.

 

[omniorange]

Neil, are you British? I ask because I want to incorporate cheers into my diction, but I'm not sure I can pull it off.

Nope, I'm American of Irish/Scottish bloodlines.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[J187Money]

No they are go getters. Aggressive minded hungry people. They bring bread home. Uconn lacks that. Nice guys finish last and the early bird gets the worm and all of those freaking quotes. We have a lady in a midlife crisis dreaming ivy and a guy who likes donuts.

Glad you are back. Kind of.

But seriously this was not fixable once she got here. Agree with your sentiments completely but we have been so far behind everyone else on fundraising for so many years it can't get fixed overnight.

So aside from the bashing please list the HFD iron clad steps that Herbst could have followed that would have won, not just what might have made you feel better.

I expect what will follow is some nonsense like "go getters get what can be got" which is pretty much like " we are winning winners that win" which means dick in the real world.

 

[ruskin]

I understand the bitterness but most of it is directed at the wrong AD. The ground work for UConn's conference situation was all laid out by Hathaway. He hired PP, he allowed the APR situation to occur, he woefully understaffed our compliance department, alienated big doners, and never got the new basketball facility off the ground. It took Pendergast, what, like three months (during a recession!) to get enough cash to start the building process... and it had been on the table for what seems like a decade.

Spot freaking on Mind. Hathaway took what Perkins had handed him and lived on cruise control for 10 years while treating ppl below him -- staff & fans alike -- like crap. He only had to make one major decision and it up so bad it qualifies him to be the Rutgers AD. Over-the-hill coach? check. Piss off major donor? check. Let the BOT head install an old crony into the most important coaching job? check.

The funny thing is when the Burton stuff blew up he tried to change the subject at a meeting in Bridgeport and said the hoop facility was coming along just fine. In hindsight it sure looks as if he was nowhere close to telling the truth. Think when SH caught on to that -- after the Burton fiasco -- JH was toast.

I do think if a ball-buster like Jurich was in charge things would be different. the problem is Jurich would not be a good 'cultural fit' here in CT, sad to say

 

[ThetaZoo]

Spot freaking on Mind. Hathaway took what Perkins had handed him and lived on cruise control for 10 years while treating ppl below him -- staff & fans alike -- like crap. He only had to make one major decision and it up so bad it qualifies him to be the Rutgers AD. Over-the-hill coach? check. Piss off major donor? check. Let the BOT head install an old crony into the most important coaching job? check.

The funny thing is when the Burton stuff blew up he tried to change the subject at a meeting in Bridgeport and said the hoop facility was coming along just fine. In hindsight it sure looks as if he was nowhere close to telling the truth. Think when SH caught on to that -- after the Burton fiasco -- JH was toast.

I do think if a ball-buster like Jurich was in charge things would be different. the problem is Jurich would not be a good 'cultural fit' here in CT, sad to say

As I sat in the stands at a soccer game in '02 or '03 shortly after Hathaway was named AD and watched him gladhand everyone within reach I was embarrassed.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Nope, I'm American of Irish/Scottish bloodlines.

Cheers,
Neil

If you use 'cheers' and aren't British, you're a pompous arse.

Tally Ho,

 

[upstater]

Yes and No. If a school makes someone be a particular donor level in order to get favorable season tickets in a particular sport than it's possible to see that donation included with that particular sports revenue.

However, if your overall point is that because different schools interpret the individual reporting lines differently that one can't compare individual sports revenue at that site, I would concur. Which is why the best one can do in terms of the Equity site is to look at overall revenue and overall expenses and know that those that report an equal balance in both are basically operating in the red and have fudged the figures to get to even and those that generated a profit probably generated more profit than listed.

Cheers,
Neil

Again, even for tix packages for specific sports, many schools do things differently. Some do it by overall points; others like Texas look at donations to the Longhorn Foundation. That money may be used to buy football tix, but doesn't count as footballr evenue.

 

[Dann]

Glad you are back. Kind of.

But seriously this was not fixable once she got here. Agree with your sentiments completely but we have been so far behind everyone else on fundraising for so many years it can't get fixed overnight.

So aside from the bashing please list the HFD iron clad steps that Herbst could have followed that would have won, not just what might have made you feel better.

I expect what will follow is some nonsense like "go getters get what can be got" which is pretty much like " we are winning winners that win" which means in the real world.

I like to focus more on what the ad should be doing as u know. I think Susan is doing a ok to good job and doing the right things mostly but the way it's happening I am not a fan of. I will give it a crack.
- I think her uconn vs Connecticut brand is wrong
- I think buying the farm lot was the right thing to do. But I think we needed to announce that certain border areas in town were all within reach and we needed to create a buy plan to purchase houses in the area and land.
- I think we need to parlay dt storrs into turning all of that road into a downtown fairfield post road type. Apartments, stores the 9 yards and I think we need to be loud and proud about that idea.
-the student gym needs to get get done. I don't know what the deal is but it should have been done already. One huge massive gym and with a turf field also. Just a master facility. The aspect of uconn student life lacks from what I understand
- AAU I don't know a lot about. I think she's on track and I applaud that but I also worry she's rushing it. I'm not a huge fan location wise of the tech park and there seems to be some questions as to jax labs and why others passed on it. I don't think I am one to complain about this from where I sit.
-the endw needed a boost. She was right to do this but I think we need to pump it way more
- I think she's willing to do a lot but quick. It's just seems to me some of these things could wait vs others. The fact she's tooling with so many thing and the way she speaks gives me the idea she's looking ivy.

I know I'm a crazy ja. But I envision the band on Saturday mornings marching up 195 with a packed town on both sides cheering and partly. They work there way up and in the stadium. Then the husky walk thru the parking lot. I envision a huge sports complex walking distance between dt storrs and parking lots. A 60k stadium, a 15k bball arena, a 5k puck barn, a 3k baseball field etc. I envision days when 60k are in town and 20k of 30k undergrads are in the stands. She's has to be the voice that that is where we are going. Not this we are winners bs.

I think uconn needs to come out with a new 50 year vision because the old one lacked in several areas and one of those was brand strength and another aspect was local size.

I have seen many ideas on here. Some good some bad. I read last week on here that the band needs new uniforms. How much do those cost? Why can't we put 55gal drums at ever exit and put a sign up at each saying what the fund is. At the end of games make sure you have 2 cheerleaders at each drum to take picture or at least say thank you to anyone who drops change or cash. Make this a usual thing. Tradition of left over beer money getting dumped after a good win. One year it's the band uniforms next year cheerleader outfits then new this and that. Things like this a ad and president need to put in place. Have they?

Eventually some here are going to have the light go on and say well they have been here long enough how come xyz is not happening. These 2 are phony and looking elsewhere already. Everything they do is resume puff but not the best for uconn. Warde gets to put that he hassled a hof's hand pick for money and time. Susan gets to talk about endow and AU stuff. Resume fluff. She changed a brand quick Yadayada.

 

[huskyniner]

HFD, you're a bit crazy but you always have great ideas. I honestly think you could help in a big way as some type of "ideas man" for UConn marketing.

 

[J187Money]

I like to focus more on what the ad should be doing as u know. I think Susan is doing a ok to good job and doing the right things mostly but the way it's happening I am not a fan of. I will give it a crack.
- I think her uconn vs Connecticut brand is wrong
- I think buying the farm lot was the right thing to do. But I think we needed to announce that certain border areas in town were all within reach and we needed to create a buy plan to purchase houses in the area and land.
- I think we need to parlay dt storrs into turning all of that road into a downtown fairfield post road type. Apartments, stores the 9 yards and I think we need to be loud and proud about that idea.
-the student gym needs to get get done. I don't know what the deal is but it should have been done already. One huge massive gym and with a turf field also. Just a master facility. The aspect of uconn student life lacks from what I understand
- AAU I don't know a lot about. I think she's on track and I applaud that but I also worry she's rushing it. I'm not a huge fan location wise of the tech park and there seems to be some questions as to jax labs and why others passed on it. I don't think I am one to complain about this from where I sit.
-the endw needed a boost. She was right to do this but I think we need to pump it way more
- I think she's willing to do a lot but quick. It's just seems to me some of these things could wait vs others. The fact she's tooling with so many thing and the way she speaks gives me the idea she's looking ivy.

I know I'm a crazy ja. But I envision the band on Saturday mornings marching up 195 with a packed town on both sides cheering and partly. They work there way up and in the stadium. Then the husky walk thru the parking lot. I envision a huge sports complex walking distance between dt storrs and parking lots. A 60k stadium, a 15k bball arena, a 5k puck barn, a 3k baseball field etc. I envision days when 60k are in town and 20k of 30k undergrads are in the stands. She's has to be the voice that that is where we are going. Not this we are winners bs.

I think uconn needs to come out with a new 50 year vision because the old one lacked in several areas and one of those was brand strength and another aspect was local size.

I have seen many ideas on here. Some good some bad. I read last week on here that the band needs new uniforms. How much do those cost? Why can't we put 55gal drums at ever exit and put a sign up at each saying what the fund is. At the end of games make sure you have 2 cheerleaders at each drum to take picture or at least say thank you to anyone who drops change or cash. Make this a usual thing. Tradition of left over beer money getting dumped after a good win. One year it's the band uniforms next year cheerleader outfits then new this and that. Things like this a ad and president need to put in place. Have they?

Eventually some here are going to have the light go on and say well they have been here long enough how come xyz is not happening. These 2 are phony and looking elsewhere already. Everything they do is resume puff but not the best for uconn. Warde gets to put that he hassled a hof's hand pick for money and time. Susan gets to talk about endow and AU stuff. Resume fluff. She changed a brand quick Yadayada.

This is the HFD that I like. Thanks.

I do disagree about her having one foot out the door. Maybe I'm wrong but some of the stuff she does she really doesn't have to do if that were the case. I really think she is genuinely trying to push UConn forward.

Warde? I think he had done ok and I'm not on his case like some are. But it could be a stepping stone for him. I think this is a great President's job but there are other schools I'd rather be AD.

 

[omniorange]

Again, even for tix packages for specific sports, many schools do things differently. Some do it by overall points; others like Texas look at donations to the Longhorn Foundation. That money may be used to buy football tix, but doesn't count as footballr evenue.

Which is why my reply of Yes and No. It just seems to me you were trying to establish some set rule that Louisville had somehow violated of where to place those funds when in fact it is up to each institution to complete it within the guidelines and there is no set established rule on it. Which is also why the site, imho, should basically be used for overall revenue and overall expenses as the closest to fact we are likely to get and the individual sports revenues and expenses be used as guidelines for discussion but not the be all and end all of the discussion.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[upstater]

Which is why my reply of Yes and No. It just seems to me you were trying to establish some set rule that Louisville had somehow violated of where to place those funds when in fact it is up to each institution to complete it within the guidelines and there is no set established rule on it. Which is also why the site, imho, should basically be used for overall revenue and overall expenses as the closest to fact we are likely to get and the individual sports revenues and expenses be used as guidelines for discussion but not the be all and end all of the discussion.

Cheers,
Neil

Quite the contrary. I was not accusing Ville of violations but rather noting that Jurich's books were rejiggered to create a PR coup--and he was successful. Much of my post responded to the Ville fan who said that Ville's supremacy when it comes to revenue was long-running and did not have much to do with its very recent facility deals. I wasn't criticizing Ville but showing that, one, it rejiggered the books to pump up individual sports in the eyes of the media, and two, it was about even with UConn just 5 years ago, and its recent skyrocketing revenues were a product of facility expansion and sweetheart deals.

 

[BugsyCT]

To address the OP - yes, we've beaten UofL recently head-to head in some sports, including football. But any way you slice it, we are where we are now and UofL and all the other BE FB defectors are where they are now because of one simple factor - they have longer, more established football traditions at the 1-A level than we do.

Despite all our hoops success the last 20+ years, we simply joined the FB party too late. As discussed endlessly on these boards, all this has always been all about football & TV money. And as much as we've agonized over everything that's happened to us with CR, I'm not so sure the best marketing team in the world could have bought us a ticket into the gentleman's club if that was the criteria.

 

[CL82]

Nope, I'm American of Irish/Scottish bloodlines.

Cheers,
Neil

Dang, I had that wrong. I figured you be something like this guy:

 

[Husky25]

...These 2 are phony and looking elsewhere already. Everything they do is resume puff but not the best for uconn. Warde gets to put that he hassled a hof's hand pick for money and time. Susan gets to talk about endow and AU stuff. Resume fluff. She changed a brand quick Yadayada.

This is illogical. You are on the record in another thread stating you are in your mid 20's, so perhaps you cannot yet distinquish activity from accomplishment, which is typically needed for promotion or moving on to greener pastures. It is commonly and widely believed that the Have-Conferences believe UConn, as a whole, is not worthy. As a result no offers should be forthcoming for either administrator. If they do move on, they will also carry a stigma that they are running from a current challenge and are probably not ready for whatever challenges await at another institution.

UConn is not an AAU member. Herbst cannot claim they are a member until they are. She will not brag about a sub-par endowment until it is at least par.

Manuel only gets credit for how he handled the MBB transition, If you believe he hassled a HoFer, that is certainly not a check in the plus column.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Dang, I had that wrong. I figured you be something like this guy:

That's what I look like - so it sounds like I can add "cheers" to my repertoire.

 

[pinotbear]

That's what I look like - so it sounds like I can add "cheers" to my repertoire.

It depends: if you can do a good "harumph", you're in!

 

[juan]

OSU president takes jab at Lousville,

"The top goal of Big Ten presidents is to "make certain that we have institutions of like-minded academic integrity," Gee said. "So you won't see us adding Louisville," a member of the Big East conference that is also joining the ACC."

 

[TRest]

OSU president takes jab at Lousville,

"The top goal of Big Ten presidents is to "make certain that we have institutions of like-minded academic integrity," Gee said. "So you won't see us adding Louisville," a member of the Big East conference that is also joining the ACC."

Link? That's a pretty good poke in the eye. Someone must have asked him how the hell Rutgers got in to the B1G.

 

[juan]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/apnewsbreak-osu-head-jabs-notre-dame-catholics