Louisville OOC

[4evercard]

Regarding Walz's recent tendency to keep 15 on scholarship, I'm a bit uneasy about it, but who am I to question him? Now in his tenth year, he's done it only about once or twice in the past. I think after his heavy injury season about four years back he decided this might be the way to go. Plus, it seems he's getting more commitments than he's anticipated so he does not turn them down. Aurieamma has sure shown keeping the roster around 11 to 12 works best. We'll see on this. I suspect Walz will drop back to 12-13 after next year. Transfers will likely be part of this direction.

"Not fair to those players" to keep 15 on scholarship? Walz does not recruit with a UConn history, Tennessee, Maryland or Notre Dame so he has to recruit more bodies and hope for the best. As previously mentioned he's just had a string of luck. It's not Walz being unfair. A good example is the two players top 30 players committing this year. They know what they're facing and how many quality underclassmen in their positions are already at Louisville. They made the choice. He's still got a couple of top 10 guards he been chasing. If they were to choose the Cards, Walz would be foolish to turn them down.

There is a definite upgrade in the talent level at Louisville, an upgrade to the point most of our fans sincerely believe we should be a final four contender every year for the next four or so years. I think our Cards are in the land of the Notre Dames, Baylors, Tennessees and etc., a place talent wise we've never previously been. Can we now take on Connecticut? Not in less UConn starts coming back to earth. Some think that's happening due to the heavy graduation of last year's stars, notably Stewart. I'll believe it when I see it. I do think all these 30 point blowouts of highly ranked teams will not be part of UConn this year. But, regardless if UConn wins by 5 or 55, I'm just not sure putting loses on UConn is going to be that frequent. If we meet and keep it within 10-12 points, it would be a big plus for our program.

BTW, I think eight of those OOC teams on the Cards' schedule played in the NCAA last season. Other than UConn I don't think you're going to find an OOC schedule much tougher than Louisville's. With Duke and UNC perhaps down, the ACC still will likely have 5 to 6 teams in the top 25 so the Cards should have one of the tougher schedules in the country. Walz knows he's got the talent to play this type schedule. He did not in the past.

 

[Nuyoika]

Regarding Walz's recent tendency to keep 15 on scholarship, I'm a bit uneasy about it, but who am I to question him? Now in his tenth year, he's done it only about once or twice in the past. I think after his heavy injury season about four years back he decided this might be the way to go. Plus, it seems he's getting more commitments than he's anticipated so he does not turn them down. Aurieamma has sure shown keeping the roster around 11 to 12 works best. We'll see on this. I suspect Walz will drop back to 12-13 after next year. Transfers will likely be part of this direction.

"Not fair to those players" to keep 15 on scholarship? Walz does not recruit with a UConn history, Tennessee, Maryland or Notre Dame so he has to recruit more bodies and hope for the best. As previously mentioned he's just had a string of luck. It's not Walz being unfair. A good example is the two players top 30 players committing this year. They know what they're facing and how many quality underclassmen in their positions are already at Louisville. They made the choice. He's still got a couple of top 10 guards he been chasing. If they were to choose the Cards, Walz would be foolish to turn them down.

There is a definite upgrade in the talent level at Louisville, an upgrade to the point most of our fans sincerely believe we should be a final four contender every year for the next four or so years. I think our Cards are in the land of the Notre Dames, Baylors, Tennessees and etc., a place talent wise we've never previously been. Can we now take on Connecticut? Not in less UConn starts coming back to earth. Some think that's happening due to the heavy graduation of last year's stars, notably Stewart. I'll believe it when I see it. I do think all these 30 point blowouts of highly ranked teams will not be part of UConn this year. But, regardless if UConn wins by 5 or 55, I'm just not sure putting loses on UConn is going to be that frequent. If we meet and keep it within 10-12 points, it would be a big plus for our program.

BTW, I think eight of those OOC teams on the Cards' schedule played in the NCAA last season. Other than UConn I don't think you're going to find an OOC schedule much tougher than Louisville's. With Duke and UNC perhaps down, the ACC still will likely have 5 to 6 teams in the top 25 so the Cards should have one of the tougher schedules in the country. Walz knows he's got the talent to play this type schedule. He did not in the past.

In regards to having a tougher out of conference schedule South Carolina has got Louisville beat by a long shot as do a few other teams. I just cross reference 8 of the pre-season Top 10 teams for next year ( I couldn't include Notre Dame or Stanford since I couldn't find their OOC schedules anywhere) but all the others play at least 2 teams in the Top 10 some also play 1 or two more in the rest of the Top 25.

Check it out: Pre-Season Non Conf Top 10 vs Top 10

ND (1): **Couldn't Find Schedule- However, we know for sure they play UConn(4).

Stanford(10): **Couldn't Find Schedule- However, we know for sure they play Texas(6).

UCLA(9): Playing- Baylor(5), South Carolina(3)

tOSU(8): Playing- South Carolina(3), UConn(4)

Maryland(7): Playing- Louisville(2), UConn(4)

Texas(6): Playing- Stanford(10), South Carolina(3), UConn(4)

Baylor(5): Playing- UCLA(9), UConn(4)

Uconn(4): Playing- tOSU(8), Maryland(7), Texas(6), Baylor(5), SCar(3), ND(1)

SCar(3): Playing- UCLA(9), tOSU(8), Texas(6), UConn(4), Louisville(2)

Louisville: Playing- Maryland(7), SCar(3)

Don't get me wrong Louisville has a good OOC schedule and I think balanced would probably be the best word to describe it but I can't say it's second to UConn's. That has to go to SCar.

 

[CocoHusky]

Regarding Walz's recent tendency to keep 15 on scholarship,

"Not fair to those players" to keep 15 on scholarship? Walz does not recruit with a UConn history, Tennessee, Maryland or Notre Dame so he has to recruit more bodies and hope for the best. As previously mentioned he's just had a string of luck. It's not Walz being unfair. A good example is the two players top 30 players committing this year. They know what they're facing and how many quality underclassmen in their positions are already at Louisville. They made the choice. He's still got a couple of top 10 guards he been chasing. If they were to choose the Cards, Walz would be foolish to turn them down.
BTW, I think eight of those OOC teams on the Cards' schedule played in the NCAA last season. Other than UConn I don't think you're going to find an OOC schedule much tougher than Louisville's. With Duke and UNC perhaps down, the ACC still will likely have 5 to 6 teams in the top 25 so the Cards should have one of the tougher schedules in the country. Walz knows he's got the talent to play this type schedule. He did not in the past.

No he does not have to recruit more bodies and hope for the best! That is a clear cop out! You fail to acknowledge the full Critique of Walz. The scholarship limit is the same for everyone. The full critique of is that he has so many outstanding offers and a roster at the scholarship limit. That is over recruiting because if an offered player says yes they are essentially displacing an existing scholarship player. He does not have to recruit this way, he chooses to recruit this way and that choice (similar to Mulkey) makes him subject to critique.

 

[4evercard]

Nuyoika, I said "much better", not better. I'll stand with what I said, The Cards OOC schedule is a very nice schedule, especially when you consider they must compete in what many call the best women's basketball conference in the country.

CocoHuskey, Walz does not recruit once he's hit the NCAA limit of 15. He cut it off last season as soon as the 15th came about. Truthfully he thought he was through at 14 when he got a late commitment from Dunham. He has NEVER displaced an existing scholarship player in the ten years at Louisville. He now has only 13 players set to be on scholarship next season, '17-'18. Again, if a couple of the outstanding HS Sr. guards he's been recruiting commit, he would be foolish to turn them down. They know what they're up against. If he does not get one of those commitments, as in the past, he'll hold at 13. He has often offered any extra scholarships to walk ons.

He had two scholarship players leave this season, Cole, a McD AA guard, appeared to leave due to limited playing time as a freshman and competition she must have felt she could not overcome. The other player, a 6'4" center, played overweight last season. She was given a weight goal to push for upon returning to school. Instead she reported to school 20 pounds heavier than before she left. Coach Walz let her know what she had to do. She chose instead to transfer, which considering the competition was best for her.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

The problem with Walz's teams the last few years has been how majorly they've under achieved, especially considering how well he's recruited. However, over recruiting previously at the 1 and 2 then recruiting well at forward and the post this year may well pay off. A great recruiter and a good coach who frankly needs success at The Big Boogie not to get the stigma of overrated. I'm pulling for him.

Have to respectfully disagree.

Last four years: NCAA Runner-Up (2013), Elite Eight (2014), Sweet 16 (2015), Second Round (2016).

Louisville lost Shoni Schimmel and her fellow starters from the 2014 Elite Eight team (believe the team lost five or six seniors). The next year, Walz was relying on Jude Schimmel and a few role players, plus two star freshmen - Mariya Moore and Myisha Hines-Allen. But let's remember...they were not top five or top ten recruits. Some had the two in the top 15; others had both between 30 and 40. But they came in and helped Louisville earn a Sweet 16 berth, which is very impressive considering how young the players were and the seniors lost to graduation.

Last year, Louisville started out very slowly, due to injuries, young players, trying to develop chemistry, and a very sluggish offense (1-4, then 3-5). But the team rallied and went 15-1 in the ACC (only a five-point loss to Notre Dame), before being upset by one against DePaul in the second round.

While last year had a disappointing ending, I would not say the team has "majorly" underachieved "the last few years" by any stretch.

 

[Nuyoika]

Nuyoika, I said "much better", not better. I'll stand with what I said, The Cards OOC schedule is a very nice schedule, especially when you consider they must compete in what many call the best women's basketball conference in the country.

You bring up an interesting point here. As long as I can remember (I'm only 29, but still especially in the last 10 years) the only conference I have ever heard ESPN, ESPNW, or an ESPN analyst refer to as the best conference in a WCBB is the SEC. That has been debated up and down and all around and I'm not trying to get you to agree or disagree with that but...

A few years back UConn, ND, Louisville, DePaul, Syracuse among others were all in the same conference and tearing everyone apart sending 2 teams to the NCAA title game year after year.... I don't recall the powers that be calling the Big East the best conference in WCBB and have certainly not heard that about the ACC maybe this was some time ago that that was the case.

Getting to my point if the pre-season #1 and #2 are in the same conference shouldn't that make it the best conference in WCBB? Or does the collection of teams below them and what they can do mean more than having 2 really good teams since basically every major WCBB conference is made up of 2 really good teams and 2 to 5 other teams that will make the tourney but likely don't have a shot in hell @ a FF.

 

[JordyG]

Have to respectfully disagree.

Last four years: NCAA Runner-Up (2013), Elite Eight (2014), Sweet 16 (2015), Second Round (2016).

Louisville lost Shoni Schimmel and her fellow starters from the 2014 Elite Eight team (believe the team lost five or six seniors). The next year, Walz was relying on Jude Schimmel and a few role players, plus two star freshmen - Mariya Moore and Myisha Hines-Allen. But let's remember...they were not top five or top ten recruits. Some had the two in the top 15; others had both between 30 and 40. But they came in and helped Louisville earn a Sweet 16 berth, which is very impressive considering how young the players were and the seniors lost to graduation.

Last year, Louisville started out very slowly, due to injuries, young players, trying to develop chemistry, and a very sluggish offense (1-4, then 3-5). But the team rallied and went 15-1 in the ACC (only a five-point loss to Notre Dame), before being upset by one against DePaul in the second round.

While last year had a disappointing ending, I would not say the team has "majorly" underachieved "the last few years" by any stretch.

Yet each of the last three years his performance in the NCAA's has worsened. Again, with top five classes. Still I root for his success, not his failure. I believe him to be one of the three or four best coaches in WCBB. Hopefully with another great class coming in he'll do better than the second round.

 

[4evercard]

I heard several media people last year point to the ACC as now the premier WBB league. Previous to Notre Dame, Louisville and Syracuse I'm like you I never heard such on the ACC. Duke and North Carolina have always been notable WBB programs. Florida State and Miami have stepped up their programs. I'm not going to research it, but I think it safe to say there are more programs from the ACC in the news in WBB recently than those from the SEC, despite South Carolina's success. Tennessee's recent demise has probably helped open the door for the rise of the ACC in WBB media attention.

You bring up an interesting point here. As long as I can remember (I'm only 29, but still especially in the last 10 years) the only conference I have ever heard ESPN, ESPNW, or an ESPN analyst refer to as the best conference in a WCBB is the SEC. That has been debated up and down and all around and I'm not trying to get you to agree or disagree with that but...

A few years back UConn, ND, Louisville, DePaul, Syracuse among others were all in the same conference and tearing everyone apart sending 2 teams to the NCAA title game year after year.... I don't recall the powers that be calling the Big East the best conference in WCBB and have certainly not heard that about the ACC maybe this was some time ago that that was the case.

Getting to my point if the pre-season #1 and #2 are in the same conference shouldn't that make it the best conference in WCBB? Or does the collection of teams below them and what they can do mean more than having 2 really good teams since basically every major WCBB conference is made up of 2 really good teams and 2 to 5 other teams that will make the tourney but likely don't have a shot in hell @ a FF.

 

[triaddukefan]

You bring up an interesting point here. As long as I can remember (I'm only 29, but still especially in the last 10 years) the only conference I have ever heard ESPN, ESPNW, or an ESPN analyst refer to as the best conference in a WCBB is the SEC. That has been debated up and down and all around and I'm not trying to get you to agree or disagree with that but...

A few years back UConn, ND, Louisville, DePaul, Syracuse among others were all in the same conference and tearing everyone apart sending 2 teams to the NCAA title game year after year.... I don't recall the powers that be calling the Big East the best conference in WCBB and have certainly not heard that about the ACC maybe this was some time ago that that was the case.

Getting to my point if the pre-season #1 and #2 are in the same conference shouldn't that make it the best conference in WCBB? Or does the collection of teams below them and what they can do mean more than having 2 really good teams since basically every major WCBB conference is made up of 2 really good teams and 2 to 5 other teams that will make the tourney but likely don't have a shot in hell @ a FF.

Ive never heard that

 

[Nuyoika]

I suppose if Louisville does make it to the title game.... the ACC would have to be the best conference in WCBB since they will have sent 3 different teams to the NCAA championship game in 3 years.

 

[triaddukefan]

Im sure this will pop up in this thread eventually, but I read alot about the only reason the ACC is strong in WCBB is that their better teams were poached from another conference (The Old Big East). Thats laughable to me, because you never hear the same people acknowledge that the only reason the Old Big East was so strong is that alot of their better teams were poached from other conferences as well.

 

[CocoHusky]

Nuyoika, I said "much better", not better. I'll stand with what I said, The Cards OOC schedule is a very nice schedule, especially when you consider they must compete in what many call the best women's basketball conference in the country.

CocoHuskey, Walz does not recruit once he's hit the NCAA limit of 15. He cut it off last season as soon as the 15th came about. Truthfully he thought he was through at 14 when he got a late commitment from Dunham. He has NEVER displaced an existing scholarship player in the ten years at Louisville.

Megan Deines?

 

[CocoHusky]

I heard several media people last year point to the ACC as now the premier WBB league.

Im sure this will pop up in this thread eventually, but I read alot about the only reason the ACC is strong in WCBB is that their better teams were poached from another conference (The Old Big East). Thats laughable to me, because you never hear the same people acknowledge that the only reason the Old Big East was so strong is that alot of their better teams were poached from other conferences as well.

OK good one! Equally laughable to me is that UCONN actually did play 3 of the top 4 ACC teams last year in ND, FSU, & Syracuse. All double digit wins by UCONN with an AMOV of 21.66 points. If UCONN was in the ACC they would still be looking for some real out of conference competition-Just like Louisville should be.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I agree. He has an excellent eye for under-the-radar talent. Indeed, when asked which player who did not attend UConn he would have liked to coach, Coach Geno responded, "Angel McCoughtry." Walk is a very fine coach, one of the best in the country. Unlike C. Viv or South Carolina, he outperforms with the talent he has, while the others underperform. Compared with Walz, the other two are chronically offensively challenged.

But he now over-recruits, he stockpiles kids, and that has to hurt going forward. Coach Geno under-recruits, but uses everyone he can, and gives everyone on the bench every opportunity to develop and perform. This coming year or two will be the first years in decades in which he will have a lot of superb players on the bench. In remarks a few weeks ago, he acknowledged that it could be a balancing act, and, if memory serves, said, "We'll see how it goes."

But in contrast, Walz just goes out and promises everyone everything. So if Orangutan is correct, even after several defections, Louisville will begin the season with fifteen bodies on its bench. Whether that's wise or not, it's certainly not fair to those players.

Jeff Walz cannot take credit for recruiting Angel McCoughtry. She was a junior during Walz's first year as head coach of the Cardinals. Jeff's predecessor, Tom Collen recruited her.

But I agree that Jeff accepts too many recruits. I'm not implying that he pulls their scholarships, but he is clearly recruiting more than he needs and those that don't work out seem to transfer at fairly high rates. If he is being honest with them when he recruits them, then it's easy to say it's the recruit's fault, but he knows more about the process than them, and so it is up to him to resist offering a recruit that has a low chance at success. What is he saying to his recruits NOT in the top 25 or so?

"You're really talented, but so are the other women on our team. You're going to have to work hard for playing time. Nothing is guaranteed. But I think you have what it takes to get us to the Final Four."

"You are the missing piece. If you join, you'll be a big part of an emerging team that will earn several trips to the Final Four! We need you on this team. Your strengths fill our weaknesses."

If he is saying the first, then I have no problem. But if his pitch is more like the second, and then he lets them fight it out their first year or two in Darwinian fashion, I take issue with it.

I know that 4evercard is uncomfortable with Jeff's large classes, so he is the least likely Louisville fan to defend Walz on this matter. The fact that he IS defending him gives me pause in criticizing Walz's recruiting. But if we see another 2 transfers this year, that will confirm to me that Jeff is not acting in the best interests of his recruits.

 

[triaddukefan]

OK good one! Equally laughable to me is that UCONN actually did play 3 of the top 4 ACC teams last year in ND, FSU, & Syracuse. All double digit wins by UCONN with an AMOV of 21.66 points. If UCONN was in the ACC they would still be looking for some real out of conference competition-Just like Louisville should be.

The ACC wasnt that good last year in my opinion.

 

[Fightin Choke]

You can try and hide behind that ACC schedule if you want. For one year before moving to ACC Louisville was in the same conference as UCONN. What did Louisville's OC schedule look like that year (2013-14 season) compared to UCONN's? UCONN is gonna run with the big dogs regardless of the conference they are in. Louisville, MD, Stanford, Baylor seems to be much more selective about running with the big dogs.

True, but it's not as dramatically true as you might think. To test the idea that UConn would have the same OOC schedule whether or not they belonged to a more competitive basketball conference, I just quickly went over the non-conference schedules of UConn since the 2001-02 season on ESPN (that's as far back as they go). I didn't bother trying to figure out the preseason top 25, but recorded how many teams were ranked at the time of the game with UConn (which is listed on the ESPN schedule).

Here is the history:

Year: top 10 teams (top 25 teams)
2001: 4 (5)
2002: 2 (3)
2003: 2 (2)
2004: 3 (4)
2005: 3 (3)
2006: 4 (4)
2007: 3 (4)
2008: 2 (2)
2009: 4 (6)
2010: 4 (7)
2011: 4 (5)
2012: 5 (7)
2013: 4 (6)
2014: 4 (5)
2015: 4 (6)

So UConn started really ramping up the schedule toughness Maya's junior season and that has continued to the present. It may have been tougher the past 3 years when UConn was in the American, but the data suggest the only jump was the 2009-2010 season. UConn's OOC schedule was not consistently tough prior to 2009, so Geno hasn't always scheduled the gauntlet that we see now.

 

[SCGamecock]

The ACC should be stronger top to bottom than the SEC next year. Keyword "should".

Notre Dame, Syracuse, Louisville, Florida State will all be top 25-esque teams next season. Miami and Duke (despite losing Stevens/Salvadores.. they do add Lexie Brown, a very good pg) should both be teams good enough to give anybody a game. North Carolina?

In the SEC, South Carolina, Mississippi State and possibly Tennessee will be top 25. Florida and A&M will flirt with the rankings. Tennessee is taking a major hit as far as injuries and I'm not sure what to think about them, but Russell, Deshields and Nared are still on roster. A&M and Georgia will both be good enough to give a scare here or there. Kentucky will likely take a major step back after a hellish offseason.. but they still have Makayla Epps.

 

[4evercard]

Megan Deines had her degree so she was eligible to transfer without sitting out. She saw she had little chance of getting anymore playing time than the previous year so she chose to take her last year elsewhere. Walz did not chase her, nor did he fill his scholarship limit before she made her decision.

I greatly admire Husky wbb fans and your knowledge, but perhaps from the view you guys have been viewing wbb college basketball for so long, off the charts above everyone else, you've lost the ability to see things the way those of us striving to be a UConn are experiencing. Walz gets the best players he can each year. Some may not work out. They're not all UConn type players. Hardly any are. Each year he starts over and tries to get even better players, if possible. Something wrong with that? I don't like transfers. No one does. But until that day comes that we are definitely one of the best four to five programs in the country or even capable of dreaming of being a UConn, Walz has to do whatever it takes to get the best players on the floor. We've watched a steady upgrade since he's been at Louisville up to this point of six McD AAs so you want to criticize him go ahead. Yes, I'm uneasy, but watching his progress I'm sure not going to question what he's doing.

I suggest the next three to four years and we hope hereafter, we've reached a plateau we can legitimately get to final fours regularly without having to pull gigantic upsets like Walz has had to do in the past with undermanned teams. Perhaps then all our players will be top quality and the need to gamble so much and keep 15 scholarships will not be necessary. Until then we'll watch Walz do what he must and hope he continues to upgrade our program.

BTW, we came within a whisker of averaging 10,000 fans per game last season. It's already looking like we'll be increasing that by a couple of thousand so the Cards are doing everything possible to become a UConn or something similar. In the 22,000 seat YUM Center, our ladies play in the nicest arena in the country for a women's program. We think it is the nicest for a men's program

 

[CocoHusky]

Suffice it to say that if UConn were in the ACC, their OOC schedule would look similar to Louisville's for the same reason.

I strongly disagree. UCONN's OOC schedule has regularly included teams like Baylor, Stanford, Duke, Maryland, and TN & more recently South Carolina & Notre Dame when those teams had NC aspirations as evidenced by #1-3 rankings.

 

[uconnell]

Im sure this will pop up in this thread eventually, but I read alot about the only reason the ACC is strong in WCBB is that their better teams were poached from another conference (The Old Big East). Thats laughable to me, because you never hear the same people acknowledge that the only reason the Old Big East was so strong is that alot of their better teams were poached from other conferences as well.

lol that is not true. Would the ACC trade the AAC , Louisville,ND,BCU,and Pitt for Huston,ECU, UCF,Tulane and Tulsa? No? Who did we poach most of those teams from CUSA, that's who. If those teams are so good why didn't the ACC take them?

 

[uconnell]

I respect the coaches who played UConn during the Stewie years . Walz not so much besides he is a whiner at every darn call.
When it was Stewies last year, he recruited like crazy and then decided he would play us, this year.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I strongly disagree. UCONN's OOC schedule has regularly included teams like Baylor, Stanford, Duke, Maryland, and TN & more recently South Carolina & Notre Dame when those teams had NC aspirations as evidenced by #1-3 rankings.

Oh Coco, you missed (or misinterpreted) his eye roll (indicating sarcasm). Carnac's thoughts align with your own.

 

[CocoHusky]

Oh Coco, you missed (or misinterpreted) his eye roll (indicating sarcasm). Carnac's thoughts align with your own.

I did miss that! But @Carnac probably knew that I was going to miss it before I missed it!

 

[Fightin Choke]

lol that is not true. Would the ACC trade the AAC , Louisville,ND,BCU,and Pitt for Huston,ECU, UCF,Tulane and Tulsa? No? Who did we poach most of those teams from CUSA, that's who. If those teams are so good why didn't the ACC take them?

triad was referring to the Old Big East that did the poaching, not the American. But I think a lot of the old Big East teams were previously independents. I know Florida State, Miami and Notre Dame were independent before joining the BE. I think that VTech was as well. BC was a charter member, along with Providence, Syracuse, St. John's, UConn, Georgetown, Seton Hall, with Pitt and Villanova joining early on. I don't know about WVU and some of the others. But the ACC absolutely ransacked the old Big East through successive raids. The old ACC was like the Vikings!

 

[JordyG]

I respect the coaches who played UConn during the Stewie years . Walz not so much besides he is a whiner at every darn call.
When it was Stewies last year, he recruited like crazy and then decided he would play us, this year.

He's a whiner alright, but Doug Burt makes them all look like mutes. Just because Burt doesn't throw jackets or choke his assistants like Mulkey doesn't excuse him.