Lou Lopez Senechal to UConn! (Merged thread)

[ballerfan]

Interesting. Years ago I had the opportunity to spend an extended time in France. I noticed that often when I asked people if they spoke English in causal settings they would say no, but once I said OK and switched to French they often would drop in to English and speak that with me. Some people surmised that they wanted me to make the effort, but I think that a different mechanism was at work.

I think that it may have been as simple as the standard for what it means to “speak a foreign language” in Europe being far higher than in in the US. So when I asked people, in English, whether they spoke English, they may have been reticent to say that they did because it wasn’t flawless. Once they heard my very best efforts at French, they were no longer uncomfortable about their English which was inevitably significantly better than my French.

Does that ring true to you?

It’s an interesting question. There was a time when many French people did not want to speak English, and some pretended not to be able to speak English with the English and Americans. After all, these foreigners were in our country, and they should speak our language. There was a belief that French, the international language until maybe WWII, could complete against English. There was also a belief in French exceptionalism, that France has a special place in world history and in the current world.

About 15 years ago I starting seeing a lot of newspaper articles here about the death of French and by extension France itself. This fear can be seen in the growing support for Le Pen’s nationalist party rooted in fascism. I now see more insecurity and embarrassment among the French about not being able to speak English. I think a lot of foreigners here are frustrated when they try to speak French, the French will respond in English. So, yes, there has been a change. But unfortunately for the French, because English is the connecting language of the European Union, English instruction here is still terrible. Young elite French people often speak English well, but ordinary French people, not that well. Even a women I once dated who went to the École normale supérieure (which has a reputation similar to Harvard’s) couldn’t understand American films or television without subtitles. Macron is the first French president who can have conversations with world leaders in English.

Given that Americans who study French generally focus on reading and writing and not speaking, a conversation between an American and an ordinary French person can be a challenge. Because I’m bilingual, this is not a concern in my life, and I’m not sure if the idea of being able to speak a foreign language is different here. Maybe it is.

A curious fact. Because the growing population of French-speaking Africans, French is projected by the investment bank Natixis and others to be the most widely spoken language in the world by 2050. That might be over optimistic, but the growth is good nonetheless, because once people stop speaking French, the culture will die, as will France.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing Lou play.

 

[MSGRET]

I’m a bilingual French-English speaker in France. I can tell you that many Europeans do not have an advanced understanding of a second language. It depends on the country. In Sweden many kids watch undubbed American TV, and many speak perfect English with an American accent. In Switzerland, a tiny country with three major languages, it’s important to function in other languages.

But in many European countries, including France, where Lou grew up, most people have only one functional language. English-language instruction in French public schools often starts late, and most teachers of English are French, so most ordinary French people learn some English but are not fluent. I was recently at a friend’s apartment, and I had to explain to his 12 year old daughter a simple American phrase that was on her t-shirt.

If you visit France you might think everyone speaks English. But to get a job in a restaurant or store in a place where there are a lot of foreigners, you have to be able to speak English. Regular French people, the people you’re unlikely to meet if you’re a tourist, would be challenged to have a conversation with you.

The stereotype is that northern Europeans speak English well, and southern Europeans, such the Spanish, French, and Italians, not so well.

I’ve watched a few interviews of Lou speaking English. She speaks English very well, not surprising after four years of going to a U.S. college. She has a noticeable French accent when speaking English, which I suspect Americans would like.

Something first pointed out to me by a Danish friend: There are 6 million Danish speakers worldwide (similar number for Swedish, Norwegian, and Finnish, maybe a factor of 4 or 5 more for Dutch). If you want to understand or be understood outside of your own small country, you need to speak another language, and most choose English. That's definitely not the case for French or (especially) Spanish. There aren't many German speakers outside of Germany, but there are several tens of millions within the country.

My experience (international conferences plus close work with colleagues) is that Dutch, Scandinavians, and Balts all speak VERY good English, to the extent that (as you allude) many mistake them for Yanks or Brits, and many Americans wish they could speak that well.

I spent 16.5 years of my 24 years in the Army overseas, 15.5 in Europe, one of those deployed to the Middle East and one in Korea. I was in Germany for almost 12 years and the Netherlands for 3.5 years. My wife is German and she spoke some English when I met her and when we moved to the U.S. for the first time she spoke well enough to have people ask her what part of the U.S. was she from. While the rest of her sisters speak limited English, her Nephews and Nieces speak well enough to carry a conversation in English.

I would say that the Dutch people spoke English percentage wise more than any other non English speaking country. Even though it is required to take English in most European Countries the Dutch seem to take it up a notch vs the other Europeans. Many of my Dutch friends explained it to me that one of the reason why so many speak English is because of their parents and grandparents believed it was the one way that they could show their gratitude to the U.S. and England for freeing them from Nazi Germany during WW II.

 

[Charliebball]

Something first pointed out to me by a Danish friend: There are 6 million Danish speakers worldwide (similar number for Swedish, Norwegian, and Finnish, maybe a factor of 4 or 5 more for Dutch). If you want to understand or be understood outside of your own small country, you need to speak another language, and most choose English. That's definitely not the case for French or (especially) Spanish. There aren't many German speakers outside of Germany, but there are several tens of millions within the country.

My experience (international conferences plus close work with colleagues) is that Dutch, Scandinavians, and Balts all speak VERY good English, to the extent that (as you allude) many mistake them for Yanks or Brits, and many Americans wish they could speak that well.

My Scandanavian friends have the most impressive language skills of all the Europeans I know...........most speak three or four languages and one speaks six.........I lived in Sweden for six months back in the 90's and rarely met anyone that didn't speak fluent English

 

[Longtime fan]

We all don’t. “UConn is a bit guard heavy”
WTH is Geno doing?

Guard heavy? We have Paige, Azzi, Caroline ( sort of a wing ) and Muhl. Four players is not " heavy". Especially when Caroline is as much a wing as a guard.

 

[HuskyNan]

Being originally from Connecticut, I could see needing to speak the language of Rhode Island, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, and New Hampshire including my native tongue in Conn.

You forgot to add Brooklynese to your list

 

[Bigboote]

I spent 16.5 years of my 24 years in the Army overseas, 15.5 in Europe, one of those deployed to the Middle East and one in Korea. I was in Germany for almost 12 years and the Netherlands for 3.5 years. My wife is German and she spoke some English when I met her and when we moved to the U.S. for the first time she spoke well enough to have people ask her what part of the U.S. was she from. While the rest of her sisters speak limited English, her Nephews and Nieces speak well enough to carry a conversation in English.

That's another thing I've noticed -- that almost all younger Europeans speak fluent English. I wonder if the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union have a lot to do with that, at least in Central and Eastern Europe. OTOH, I've also noticed a huge increase in the quality of English spoken by Japanese, Chinese, and Korean folks in the last few decades.

 

[Longtime fan]

My Scandanavian friends have the most impressive language skills of all the Europeans I know...........most speak three or four languages and one speaks six.........I lived in Sweden for six months back in the 90's and rarely met anyone that didn't speak fluent English

We have French relatives and Norwegian relatives. The typical French person ...one who is long removed from school...and does not have a job requiring English, speak barely a word. My wife's sister is married to a French guy ( totally fluent due to work ), and his parents are our age. We spent a week in their home( the parents ) and it was laughable. Our French ( which is limited was far superior to their English. So we defaulted to French as our common language and used Google translations a lot. We went to a Xmas party( 18-20 guests of all ages ) and I was shocked how few had any grasp of English. And they all acknowledged that they had little motivation to learn English. In Norway, the older folks ( again......long removed from school...) recalled a handful of random words. And they speak with a nordic accent that made it impossible (for me) to comprehend. The younger generations, however, are fluent in English. My Norwegian doesn't exist, so I can't complain.

 

[sno-cat]

In Western Massachusetts we speak English and in eastern Massachusetts they speak something called BostonIan.

 

[Mdoggie]

Guard heavy? We have Paige, Azzi, Caroline ( sort of a wing ) and Muhl. Four players is not " heavy". Especially when Caroline is as much a wing as a guard.

I was quoting another poster.

 

[Javafan]

I spent 16.5 years of my 24 years in the Army overseas, 15.5 in Europe, one of those deployed to the Middle East and one in Korea. I was in Germany for almost 12 years and the Netherlands for 3.5 years. My wife is German and she spoke some English when I met her and when we moved to the U.S. for the first time she spoke well enough to have people ask her what part of the U.S. was she from. While the rest of her sisters speak limited English, her Nephews and Nieces speak well enough to carry a conversation in English.

I would say that the Dutch people spoke English percentage wise more than any other non English speaking country. Even though it is required to take English in most European Countries the Dutch seem to take it up a notch vs the other Europeans. Many of my Dutch friends explained it to me that one of the reason why so many speak English is because of their parents and grandparents believed it was the one way that they could show their gratitude to the U.S. and England for freeing them from Nazi Germany during WW II.

@MSGRET, you know why the Dutch speaks better English than other non-English speaking European countries? Because in the INDO- EUROPEAN language family there is a branch called GERMANIC, there are 3 sub-branches under the Germanic, one of them is WEST GERMANIC- which includes German, Dutch and guess what? English also ! The closest language to English is Dutch, but the closest to Dutch is German(Deutsch).That's why the Dutch has easier task to learn English, albeit even easier for them to learn German. The other GERMANIC sub-branch is NORTH GERMANIC which includes Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Icelandic. So, the people in Northern European countries is still under the big umbrella of GERMANIC language system, not too far cousins of the English - also not too difficult to learn English, comparatively speaking against others.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Being taught English in school from a young age sure helps too.

 

[ballerfan]

We have French relatives and Norwegian relatives. The typical French person ...one who is long removed from school...and does not have a job requiring English, speak barely a word. My wife's sister is married to a French guy ( totally fluent due to work ), and his parents are our age. We spent a week in their home( the parents ) and it was laughable. Our French ( which is limited was far superior to their English. So we defaulted to French as our common language and used Google translations a lot. We went to a Xmas party( 18-20 guests of all ages ) and I was shocked how few had any grasp of English. And they all acknowledged that they had little motivation to learn English. In Norway, the older folks ( again......long removed from school...) recalled a handful of random words. And they speak with a nordic accent that made it impossible (for me) to comprehend. The younger generations, however, are fluent in English. My Norwegian doesn't exist, so I can't complain.

What I like about your post is that you have direct and current contact with French people. As France is my country, I can confirm that what you are saying is normal and true. Even young people in France are generally not great at English or any other foreign language.

This is an extremely complicated and rapidly changing topic. I’m not saying anyone here shouldn’t have an opinion, but if you haven’t lived on this side of the ocean recently, it’s hard to imagine what’s going on in France and Europe, including people’s ability or desire to speak multiple languages.

The BY is a basketball forum, so this is my last post about languages generally. I would rather get back to Lou, who has a great command of English, especially for a French person. I hope in the future we can talk about French basketball and how that has affected Lou. France is a great basketball country. It does well in the Olympics. Tony Parker is the president of a French team not far from where Lou grew up. Kim Mulkey at LSU had two French players on her team last year.

 

[CL82]

Given that Americans who study French generally focus on reading and writing and not speaking, a conversation between an American and an ordinary French person can be a challenge. Because I’m bilingual, this is not a concern in my life, and I’m not sure if the idea of being able to speak a foreign language is different here. Maybe it is.

This reminded me of a tecollection that brought a smile to my face. I had been staying in Paris about 30 days. One day, not far from Pere Lachaise, a couple came up to me and said “Excuse me are you a Parisian?” Even to my ears their French sounded provincial so I thought they might have been tourists in need of directions. I replied in my very best French “Do I sound like a Parisian?” Everyone laughed. (Hurtful, but not unexpected.) After that was over, I told them that I was familiar with Paris and that I might be able to answer their question, which as it turns out, I could.

 

[HopJim]

That's another thing I've noticed -- that almost all younger Europeans speak fluent English. I wonder if the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union have a lot to do with that, at least in Central and Eastern Europe. OTOH, I've also noticed a huge increase in the quality of English spoken by Japanese, Chinese, and Korean folks in the last few decades.

Its humbling to understand the language skills of most in Europe and Asia. Since English is the de facto business language of the world, rare that any younger person or frequent traveler isn't fluent or at least skilled. Not uncommon to have younger Europeans or Asians to be fluent in English and their home country's language, and able to converse in 2-3 others. When I managed an Asian company in the past, my Administrator was fluent in 3 languages and could hold a conversation in 5. Many of us have trouble communicating when traveling from Boston to NY or vice versa.

 

[Sifaka]

I've restrained myself from joining the language conversation because… Well because languages are among my favorite playthings, hobbies, avocations. In our household we have Portuguese speakers, Spanish speakers, (somewhat rusty) Italian speakers, French speakers, and a couple of very different varieties of English from both sides of the pond. Multilingual puns run rampant around here, and some are so dreadful we laugh at one another for daring to be so absurd.

With that as background, here's an old memory from the time when I was teaching undergraduates intermediate Spanish at a research university. It was the late 1960s. The students were having trouble with the notion of grammatical gender, which English lacks, but is fundamental in the Romance languages.

Teacher: ¿Cuáles son los tres géneros de la palabra pez?
What are the three genders for the word fish? (In the real world there are only two.)

Students: confused looks on their faces.

Teacher: El pez. (The fish, masculine pronoun el)
La pez (The fish, feminine pronoun la)
López (López is a common surname in Spanish. Lo is a neuter gender pronoun.)

Half the students had blank looks. The other half, who knew more, just groaned in theatrical agony.)

Back to baloncesto/basquete/basketball…

 

[HopJim]

I will be shocked if we are not better next year! I’m a little puzzled that you seem doubtful that we will be? We will almost (knock on wood) certainly be healthier, our best players will be more experienced, the whole team will have worked on their respective game, we will be bigger, and we will have two fabulous freshmen and at least one, (possibly more) talented transfer! Plus, Aubrey!

Well said. While I don't underestimate the talent we lost, just having Paige and Azzi for a full year makes us better. UConn doesn't have the size of SC but we are very well balanced at all levels and exceptional at guard.

 

[Bone Dog]

Interesting. Years ago I had the opportunity to spend an extended time in France. I noticed that often when I asked people if they spoke English in causal settings they would say no, but once I said OK and switched to French they often would drop in to English and speak that with me. Some people surmised that they wanted me to make the effort, but I think that a different mechanism was at work.

I think that it may have been as simple as the standard for what it means to “speak a foreign language” in Europe being far higher than in in the US. So when I asked people, in English, whether they spoke English, they may have been reticent to say that they did because it wasn’t flawless. Once they heard my very best efforts at French, they were no longer uncomfortable about their English which was inevitably significantly better than my French.

Does that ring true to you?

As an American of French descent, I can assure you that folks in France, especially around Paris, would much rather practice their English on you than let you practice your French on them. Maybe these folks were also reticent about speaking imperfectly, but I doubt it.

 

[HuskyNan]

I've restrained myself from joining the language conversation because… Well because languages are among my favorite playthings, hobbies, avocations. In our household we have Portuguese speakers, Spanish speakers, (somewhat rusty) Italian speakers, French speakers, and a couple of very different varieties of English from both sides of the pond. Multilingual puns run rampant around here, and some are so dreadful we laugh at one another for daring to be so absurd.

With that as background, here's an old memory from the time when I was teaching undergraduates intermediate Spanish at a research university. It was the late 1960s. The students were having trouble with the notion of grammatical gender, which English lacks, but is fundamental in the Romance languages.

Teacher: ¿Cuáles son los tres géneros de la palabra pez?
What are the three genders for the word fish? (In the real world there are only two.)

Students: confused looks on their faces.

Teacher: El pez. (The fish, masculine pronoun el)
La pez (The fish, feminine pronoun la)
López (López is a common surname in Spanish. Lo is a neuter gender pronoun.)

Half the students had blank looks. The other half, who knew more, just groaned in theatrical agony.)

Back to baloncesto/basquete/basketball…

A Spanish man who spoke no English went into a department store to buy socks. He found his way to the menswear department where a young lady offered to help him.

"Quiero calcetines" said the man.

"I don't speak Spanish, but we have some very nice suits over here." said the salesgirl.

"No, no quiero trajes. Quiero calcetines." said the man.

"I still don't know what you're trying to say. We have some fine pants on this rack." offered the salesgirl.

"No, no quiero pantalones. Quiero calcetines." insisted the man.

"These sweaters are top quality." the salesgirl probed.

"No, no quiero sueter. Quiero calcetines." said the man.

"Our undershirts are over here." fumbled the salesgirl, beginning to lose patience.

"No, no quiero camisetas. Quiero calcetines." the man repeated.

As they passed the underwear counter, the man spotted a display of socks and happily grabbed a pair. Holding them up he proclaimed "Eso sí que es!".

"Well, if you could spell it, why didn't you do that in the beginning?" asked the exasperated salesgirl

 

[Creature]

Azzi and Muhl's backup?

 

[TeamFirst!]

It's no problem at all to go off topic for 2 pages for some people but others make one post off topic and it's a semi crisis. We all should lighten up. OK!

 

[Blond D.]

Nika's smile a little less glossy than normal. Seems Dorka is finding a way to work out with a broken wrist.

Ya dont need your wrist to run.

 

[CL82]

As an American of French descent, I can assure you that folks in France, especially around Paris, would much rather practice their English on you than let you practice your French on them. Maybe these folks were also reticent about speaking imperfectly, but I doubt it.

Cool. I always wondered if it was that. So, could the mindset best be described as “well, he’s not going away, I guess I’ll have to talk to him.“

 

[Gus Mahler]

Dogstar copied and pasted my post. He/she must have really liked it.

Are you not flattered?

 

[Carnac]

Are you not flattered?

Absolutely Sir. Hi Gus.

 

[nomdoux]

I spent 16.5 years of my 24 years in the Army overseas, 15.5 in Europe, one of those deployed to the Middle East and one in Korea…

Thank you for your service, MSGRET.

 

[Cuango]

We just lost 3 top draft picks to the WNBA. That's a lot of proven talent. We replace them with 2 rookies and a portal transfer. It takes a lot of improvement in the rest of the roster to compensate for that. Still, I agree that we might be better. Just don't think it's probable.

I think also that "Chica" probably subs in for Azzi some also. She knows how to use screens and can shoot the 3. In some ways, she's a better fit in Azzi's role. I do agree that she probably subs more for Caroline.

While I liked and appreciated all three of the seniors and believe they gave their best to their team, I couldn’t realistically call them “top draft picks”. No disrespect intended, they were great people, great teammates, and solid players and will be missed, but I think next year’s roster will be stronger even with their absence. Assuming, of course, we are healthy!

 

[AmeriConn]

While I liked and appreciated all three of the seniors and believe they gave their best to their team, I couldn’t realistically call them “top draft picks”. No disrespect intended, they were great people, great teammates, and solid players and will be missed, but I think next year’s roster will be stronger even with their absence. Assuming, of course, we are healthy!

Couldn’t have said it better. 100% agree, but one more big from the portal please.

 

[UcMiami]

Don't need to knock the seniors or praise the freshman over much. A healthy team with 4 months to gel will be a better team than last year. This year's team over-performed just to make another FF and got lucky to play an 'off-night' Stanford.

 

[Centerstream]

Don't need to knock the seniors or praise the freshman over much. A healthy team with 4 months to gel will be a better team than last year. This year's team over-performed just to make another FF and got lucky to play an 'off-night' Stanford.

What do you mean over-performed? I believe that the Preseason ranking for last year was SoCar, UConn, Stanford and MD. So to me they played up to their potential and didn't over perform. I don't think that they under performed either because with the exception of Dorka, they played the NC with pretty much the Preseason projected lineup.
I guess you forgot to mention that we were lucky to beat Indiana and NC State too.

 

[Bald Husky]

UConn was a great team last year that was expected to get to the final 4 and challenge for the NC. We knew it, the rest of the WBB world knew it, and the national media knew it. Coming back from all the injuries was magical, and not too many teams would have been able to do it. So IMHP they were not lucky, and beating the second ranked team in the country, the defending National champs, was fair and square. I'm sure UConns defense had nothing to do with their shooting woes, but our kids weren't exactly shooting the lights out either. Great teams can adjust for poor performances, they did not. It was a miracle that we made it to the FF, but it was not unexpected.