Loss is on Hurley: | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Loss is on Hurley:

Everything changed when Akok got the 2nd foul. Had to take him out. Same with AG 2nd foul.
22 turnovers and it is the coaches fault. Really??
 
Just Carlton had the majority of our turnovers. Why did we keep trying to beat the ball in to him when he obviously can't hold onto it? He had a few nice fishes inside but it's a crap shoot if he will even get a shot off before losing the ball?

We have no offensive identity.
 
husky429 said:
I didn't see any offensive adjustments at all.

He didn't bench his senior leaders when they made mistakes. That is coaching 101. Hold them accountable early.

The substitution patterns are hot garbage right now. Subbing 4-5 guys is okay vs Iona, but not any decent P6 team.

Our team looked frozen. Shocked by a big game on national TV. Including our coach.

Not enough fans are willing to put some of this on the coach. It happens. Hurley is very good--he isn't GREAT yet. The guy is only 45 or so. IMO He Mack, Oats and a couple others are the best young coaches in the game. It would be crazy to think he's infallible.
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I find the mass subs odd as well ... but I guess when you have 10 guys who can play but no superstars, he feels like making more NBA-like subs with 2nd units. It's not super conventional at this level, but I'm sure he's got his reasons.

Edit: As for last night, a few posters correctly point out that some of this was obviously foul trouble. But he's done these subs multiple games, so it's not JUST with foul trouble situations.
 
UconnFanNVa said:
Just Carlton had the majority of our turnovers. Why did we keep trying to beat the ball in to him when he obviously can't hold onto it? He had a few nice fishes inside but it's a crap shoot if he will even get a shot off before losing the ball?

We have no offensive identity.
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What? He was scoring better then the guards. Yes had turn overs but he was killing them inside
 
HuskyBandDad said:
What? He was scoring better then the guards. Yes had turn overs but he was killing them inside
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Yea he was 9 of 14 with that dunk being one of them (honestly didn't think he was capable of that). Thats not bad at all. But having 7 turnovers? Imagine if he actually got this shots off instead of turning it over? How many of those let to baskets for the other team? Moreover alot of be our guards turnovers were on attempts to get the ball to Carlton! We kept trying to throw it over the top and it just wasn't happening.
 
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Couple of thoughts:

Hurley is allergic to calling TO's when the other team is on a run. So often he waits to use his first TO in the last possession or two of the first half. He should have called a TO before their run was 14-1 in the first half.

Why is he sitting Alterique and Akok in the first half with two fouls? He's basically manually fouling out our best ball handler and best defender in the first half.

Al commits an average of 2.3 fouls per 40 minutes played. Akok commits 2.3 fouls per 40 minutes played. They don't commit fouls, they don't foul out of games, PLAY THEM.
 
Hurley subs too much. It’s one thing if they are pressing and running up and down the court but don’t sit Akok when he’s hot and it’s a half court game? I’ll give him a pass this year cause he’s recruiting well but next year should be zero excuses. I won’t touch on Vital and AG, we all know they’ll be up and down all year. Cole should make a big difference next year.
 
They closed their 5 point gap with CV on the bench, midway through the 2nd half. At that time, I hoped CV would not come back on the court. Other than his steal and alley pass to Sid, it was more of the same.

I don’t see how you’re going to change behavior by continuing to reward bonehead plays with PT. They need CV, but they also need a better CV (definitely goes for AG too), but it doesn’t seem like the message is getting through
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Personally, I think his sets need some work, the offense is very stagnant. Do some creative screening or something, our guards have the endurance to move around, but it’s always give the ball to Josh/Akok then wait til a guard comes to get the ball. We seem to get into our offense late.
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agreed. Way to much dribbling and useless weaves.
And the inbounds plays are nonexistent...dare I say Ollie-esque.
 
DaveHuskiesFan said:
Couple of thoughts:

Hurley is allergic to calling TO's when the other team is on a run. So often he waits to use his first TO in the last possession or two of the first half. He should have called a TO before their run was 14-1 in the first half.

Why is he sitting Alterique and Akok in the first half with two fouls? He's basically manually fouling out our best ball handler and best defender in the first half.

Al commits an average of 2.3 fouls per 40 minutes played. Akok commits 2.3 fouls per 40 minutes played. They don't commit fouls, they don't foul out of games, PLAY THEM.
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Agree on the Hurley Timeouts. He needs to call more in the first half.
Disagree on the foul trouble strategy for reasons i stated in other thread. See Jim Calhoun

Lastly, @DaveHuskiesFan, had an intense very real feeling dream last night that I apologized in person to CV and gave him a hug out of respect.

I know that prob sounds really funny but I think I needed that dream. The kid has heart and really strong character. I still don’t think he should have the ball in the final seconds.

But he has worked his butt off and is a solid dude. He had a really bad game last night but he deserves respect for his optimistic attitude, solid character and determination to help us win. He is a leader and i can see why personality wise Hurley trusted him in the end.

All that said, he does still need to learn to trust other guys more rather than try to do it himself particularly at the very end of games. We have very good basketball players on our team not named vital who can also do damage in crunch time.
 
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It was a hideous game. 3-17 from your veteran starting backcourt--plus 10 turnovers from the pair--doesn't give you a chance most nights. We were fortunate that Indiana was as offensively inept as we were.

On the season, Gilbert is shooting .270 from the floor and Vital is at .358. Not meaning to pick on them but they have to get better. College hoops has always been about guard play. We need improvement from our veteran leaders.
 
HuskyBoi said:
both teams stunk, we just slightly stunk more.
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One of the worst basketball games I've ever watched. The game before it was so much more enjoyable. To lose on top of it being so bad to watch was the icing on the cake.
 
Hurley has improved our defense and all game effort in a big way. Who is our lead dog to make some shots in close games? Most teams have a guard able to step up here and not always from 3. The way things are being run for us on offense it seems Josh is that guy. This is a tough strategy to win big games with but it is where we are at now. None of our guards make enough shots to be able to be counted on yet.
 
I don't know how a coach could watch his team flounder and not call a time out to settle them down and reset the defense.

The 18-3 first half run was unacceptable. 18-3! That's the game! After a 10 point run, call the TO. Vital missed some key free throws as well and Carlton's flagrant killed us

Hurley just sitting back watching the run. I don't get it.
 
UChusky916 said:
During that run, AG had 2 fouls. Akok had 2 fouls. Carlton was in. That accounts for 3 of our 5 starters. Vital was the playing poorly. And Polley doesn't give us much offensively if he's not spotting up for 3.

Hurley had to play other guys out of necessity because of the fouls.

If I were to make one change, it would have been having Adams running point while AG was on the bench. Vital can't play point and run an offense. His decision making is questionable and he's sloppy with the ball.

Gaffney hasn't shown anything yet to show he can play at this level. I understand he is coming off a bad ankle injury early in the year. But I noticed Gaffney frequently dribbles with his back or side to his defender in the half court. He's not even comfortable handling the ball while facing his opponent to see the floor. He looks scared to make a mistake.

I think Hurley's substitution patterns can improve, but last night it was on the players for turning the ball over constantly and when AG went out, no one was capable of running offense.
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I was having a brain fart on AG having 2 fouls, and I agree 100% on your other points. The hockey substitutions have seemed to become a pattern that I don’t love. If they didn’t happen by the 16 minute mark because of foul trouble, they likely would have happened by around the 13 minute mark anyway. I understand Hurley wants to tire out other teams but we sacrifice too much with four (or even 5 at times) bench players in the game against good teams. I feel that Hurley needs to find better substitution patterns, subbing a couple guys at a time, and obviously the right combo of players where we have enough balance on the floor to not have areas of the game that are huge liabilities. Obviously we’re not loaded with talent (yet) so the options are limited, but I definitely think (as you obviously do also) that Hurley can do a better job subbing.
 
We don't run plays to get shooters open. Staying on the perimeter doesn't force any help defense. There is still no attacking on offense whether by plan or due to hesitant play. We should be able to at least put the defense on their heels. Need to create more opportunities.
 
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Hi-Low said:
No, he had to go with AG & CV tonight.....and we all better hope they play better in big spots if any hope of making tourney.
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I don't think that you can trust them to change.
 
auror said:
When Gilbert was out with fouls we got outscored by ~12. I liked that he put him in end of 1H even with 2 fouls.

He probably could have called a timeout during that run, but Gaffney and Vital both looked bad running the show. Bouk didn't look good when he was on ball. Who did you want at point? BAdams? Sid? That doesn't change once the game resumes after the timeout.
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Hurley was trying. When Indiana went on the run at the end of the first half, he started putting Gilbert in on deadballs when we had possession and pulling him for Adams when we were going on defense. Hurley coached it like it was a tournament game. Our guards didn't respond.

Frankly, if I were to blame Hurley for one thing last night, it would be not having us relaxed enough coming in to MSG. Everyone looked overhyped up and tight. Which explains nights with outstanding D and poor offense.
 
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Coaches have to figure things out. They see the players in practice every day and know we have to win NOW.
We need a dynamic player who can change the game at both ends. Hopefully Bouk is that guy. Has to have the green light to make things happen and not be afraid to take a game over if thats possible. Hopefully he has that kind of talent.
 
businesslawyer said:
Hurley was trying. When Indiana went on the run at the end of the first half, he started putting Gilbert in on deadballs when we had possession and pulling him for Adams when we were going on defense. Hurley coached it like it was a tournament game. Our guards didn't respond.

Frankly, if I were to blame Hurley for one thing last night, it would be not having us relaxed enough coming in to MSG. Everyone looked overhyped up and tight. Which explains nights with outstanding D and poor offense.
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They came in blowing Indiana off the floor, then he took Akok and Gilbert out with two fouls inserted CV as point guard and then it all went to s***.
 
superjohn said:
They came in blowing Indiana off the floor, then he took Akok and Gilbert out with two fouls inserted CV as point guard and then it all went to s***.
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When I looked back I was surprised we extended the lead over the next five minutes after he took Gilbert out. Only after Akok picked up his second and Hurley took him out that things went badly. If anything this indicates the fragility of the players and that a kid like Akok with his energy and drive is the spark plug this team needs. It would be better if a guard could do this. Hopefully someone else can filter out distractions and inspire the team. We've lacked this type of player since Bazz perhaps Boat.
 
Sphinx said:
He did it in both the first and second halves, and each time Iona closed the gap instantly.
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He did it against Miami and they pulled away.
 
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coachn said:
Coaches have to figure things out. They see the players in practice every day and know we have to win NOW.
We need a dynamic player who can change the game at both ends. Hopefully Bouk is that guy. Has to have the green light to make things happen and not be afraid to take a game over if thats possible. Hopefully he has that kind of talent.
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Have you seen him play defense? He might help change game on offense but nowhere near ready to change a game on d.
 
I think it's okay if some of us are underwhelmed by Hurley's performance on the court while at the same time pleased with his performance on the recruiting trail. I support Hurley and believe in him but won't do mental gymnastics to explain away mistakes or act like he's one of the top coaches in the country before he's come anywhere close to proving it.

There are coaches who could have developed THESE very players more over the off-season or who are capable of elevating this team with brilliant schemes. There are coaches who can get this team, with these players into the NCAA tournament THIS season. There's a lot of season left to play but in my opinion, Hurley is not one of those coaches (I would absolutely, genuinely LOVE to be wrong) I'm okay if that's the case because I believe his recruiting abilities will pay larger dividends over the next few years and lead us to better results. I prefer that to a lesser recruiter who can find a way to sneak this team in this year.

Even if I don't sound like it, I'm enthusiastic about Hurley being here. I'm not a fanboy though. Results are results. Most of you guys are reasonable but there are a few of you who talk about Hurley like he's Calhoun or Jay Wright or Izzo. You don't say it directly but the tone of entitlement and the unearned inevitability of Hurley's eventual greatness is there. Hurley was brought on as good mid-major coach with high upside who has proven to be a skilled recruiter. He remains that.
 
Think Vital just has to be Vital, seemingly tries to do more on the biggest stage

Just be yourself, that's all we need

AG couldn't shoot, but plays good D and ran the offense well

Book had a tough game, I trust he'll do better next time. It's all about learning how to win
 
fleudslipcon said:
When I looked back I was surprised we extended the lead over the next five minutes after he took Gilbert out. Only after Akok picked up his second and Hurley took him out that things went badly. If anything this indicates the fragility of the players and that a kid like Akok with his energy and drive is the spark plug this team needs. It would be better if a guard could do this. Hopefully someone else can filter out distractions and inspire the team. We've lacked this type of player since Bazz perhaps Boat.
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Hurley says it and many on the board say we'll go as far as our senior guards. It's true for many teams but often not the case with big time programs and I don't think it should be the case for us...

We absolutely need Alterique because he's the only guy on the team who can do the things he does but we'll go as far as him playing like a senior facilitor and Bouknight and Akok being the guys will take us. Alterique is still going to have his what the heck moments and what the heck games but hopefully as he gets more game play it will be minimized. Vital has been allowed to be the guy for 4 years and he's proven over and over he isn't capable...
There just isn't much upside with both AG and CV being allowed to be the guys and as we've seen there's a whole lot of downside... There is a ton of upside with Bouknight and Akok, their offensive workload has to go up along with more stuff designed to get Polley looks. CV can be a really good catch and shoot guy, and his rebounding, intensity, and the occasional drive are needed he just can't be the #1 offensive option for any team who hopes to make the tournament.

We don't know for sure if with 30 minutes a game and majorly increased offensive roles if Bouknight and Akok can get it done but I think trying to force it with something that's proven over and over it doesn't work will just lead us to more close losses we all think we should have won.
 
During that run, we needed to make Adams the point guard (he could not have done worse) or you put Gilbert in with 2 fouls as a last resort. That and a TO and I'm happy
 
Hopefully it's just freshman jitters and early lack of confidence but I was concerned with Gaffney trying to run point for a few minutes but essentially dribbling with his back to the basket to protect the ball
 
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