Looks like McCallie is staying... | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Looks like McCallie is staying...

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RockyMTblue2

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The sad fact is, societal norms have change, characterizing anything as "low class" seems unacceptable, intolerant, and frankly, something today's press and audience find repulsive (unless, of course, it has an adverse affect on one of their loved ones). But, you're exactly right. Aren't leaders (coaches), first and foremost, supposed to lead by example? While coaching can be demanding, JPM seems to ignore the the old Lombardi adage, "praise in public, and criticize in private" practice. Not a good recipe for team building.

The most offensive part of her public persona, for me at least, aside from her throw them under the bus attitude, is her steadfast refusal to accept that any part of her team's less than stellar play has anything to do with her coaching.
 

RockyMTblue2

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The money can't really be a major issue: a school as wealthy as Duke is going to weigh the financial cost of buying her out vs. the potential liabilities (financial and also publicity) if they keep her and things really blow up (and blow up for a new president, since Brodhead is stepping down). We are all guessing, of course. My guess is that the human resource investigation (and these folks are not sentimental) revealed that she was very tough on her players--perhaps exceptionally so--but that she understands the problem and has agreed to some quiet mentoring/guidance going forward. If that was HR's recommendation (I'm completely guessing here), it sort of hamstrings the AD, since then he would certainly be firing without cause.

So she's on double-secret probation!



May it end for her as badly as it ended for Delta House!
 
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The money can't really be a major issue: a school as wealthy as Duke is going to weigh the financial cost of buying her out vs. the potential liabilities (financial and also publicity)

In major college sports, Duke - along with most other private schools - is not rich.
I'm sure Duke has a relatively small athletic budget compared to some of its peers, and it is tightly controlled. A multi million budget hit over a sport that is likely already a net financial loser is not wise.

it sort of hamstrings the AD, since then he would certainly be firing without cause.

Secondly, these HR comments are off base. Coaches get fired all the time for poor performance. Not making the NCAAs alone is sufficient for cutting ties. Heck, not getting to the final 4 is sufficient at some schools. No one in HR is tying the AD's hands. Probably the CFO, but definitely not HR.
 
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I wonder if we are reading the same statements. All of us know that psy abuse(?) is very difficult to established (and we know that it is contextual, at times). Any number of Geno's players could, one day, lodged a complaint against him! The AD's statement recognizes her 'winning' ways (contested by many here), and has placed her (basically) under administration (disciplinary .....) The latter is (legally) as serious as imagined. This is not a pat on the back. She must have fought extremely hard for her job. Of course the administration has, now, the time to line up a replacement without delivering it in the hands of an assistant.
 

Rocket009

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Just found out that Greyhound Bus Lines will reinstate service to Durham NC effective November 1, 2016. :rolleyes:

Will only use buses having recently upgrade their suspensions. It's really bumpy around Durham.
 
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The sad fact is, societal norms have change, characterizing anything as "low class" seems unacceptable, intolerant, and frankly, something today's press and audience find repulsive (unless, of course, it has an adverse affect on one of their loved ones). But, you're exactly right. Aren't leaders (coaches), first and foremost, supposed to lead by example? While coaching can be demanding, JPM seems to ignore the the old Lombardi adage, "praise in public, and criticize in private" practice. Not a good recipe for team building.
Geno does it all the time, but in the right way, whatever that is.
 
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The most offensive part of her public persona, for me at least, aside from her throw them under the bus attitude, is her steadfast refusal to accept that any part of her team's less than stellar play has anything to do with her coaching.
Coaching, what coaching?:eek:
 

msf22b

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She's lost a whole bunch of her best players
A slew of assistant's have departed.
Many of her antics are available for all to see in her public appearances
It's Kentucky redux., in some ways worse because she gives more than a hint in her losing pressers, just what an unpleasant personality she is

UC: she's going to have a hard time competing with what's left.
And I still can't get over Williams saying, it doesn't come up to the level of criminality
What an indictment.that is.

What do you reckon Duke's chances are for a successful season this year?
I'd like someone to handicap that.
 
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It's disappointing, very disappointing. Her indifferent coaching abilities and abrasive, grating, shall I say "low class" behavior should have had her walking before now. We know she has never "learned from it" and the question for me is will we see worse and will she be even worse behind closed doors. The question to ask each potential recruit is "is the lure of the Duke diploma worth the promised mediocrity, at best, of the sport you love?"

“Joanne P. McCallie is, and will be, our head women’s basketball coach and we support her. A three-time ACC Coach of the Year, she is a winning coach who has averaged more than 27 wins per season, won three ACC Championships and led our program to the NCAA Elite Eight four times.”

A winning coach gets fans and fan support which then means MONEY. So far she has WON.
One of three things will happen at Duke: 1. She will start losing (less than 20 wins) and be fired
2. She will understand what her brand of "inducement" has caused her image damage and change
3. Duke Management, when the smoke clears, quietly asks her to resign.
 

Tonyc

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Gotta tell ya I disagree with the comment of physical harm. We remember an AAU coach posting here about a player being punched by another player and that same player who punched a team mate in the head beat on another team mate. I know one transferred. Those of you at the Maggie Dixon Classic over a year ago remember someone getting a text that a starter for Duke was transferring. Yes there are problems at Duke but it would cost to much to buy her out of her contract therefore she stays. With all the negative press coming out on Duke and a couple of other programs recruits will be looking elsewhere. Duke accepted a commit from a 6'3 post player from Wagner College in NY. This girl averaged 5 pts a game at Wagner a lower D1 school. I guess Duke needs to fill their roster and think about how they will rebuild.
 
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In major college sports, Duke - along with most other private schools - is not rich.
I'm sure Duke has a relatively small athletic budget compared to some of its peers, and it is tightly controlled. A multi million budget hit over a sport that is likely already a net financial loser is not wise.
Secondly, these HR comments are off base. Coaches get fired all the time for poor performance. Not making the NCAAs alone is sufficient for cutting ties. Heck, not getting to the final 4 is sufficient at some schools. No one in HR is tying the AD's hands. Probably the CFO, but definitely not HR.
Thanks for this vowelguy. Obviously I disagree with you on both these things.
1. Yes, athletic budgets are constrained, but not under exceptional circumstances, where law suits and bad publicity can damage the brand (think lacrosse). Any major university president, convinced that a coach is somehow endangering her players emotionally or physically, won't hesitate to step in and pay any price to change the situation. It's a one-time buy out and not part of the athletic budget.
2. HR was explicitly brought in to investigate the charges. It wasn't whether she was a winning or losing coach, but whether her comportment confirmed to the standards of employment. HR apparently (we are all guessing) said it did. That does tie the AD's hand on that issue, at least. He can say it's won/lose and fire her for that if he wants to try, but probably not (guessing again) on grounds of mismanagement.
 
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pinotbear

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Geno does it all the time, but in the right way, whatever that is.
I strongly suspected somebody would mention this, and, it is an odd thing. One of the fairly frequent 'bones of contention" on this board is "how to treat players". It's a natural source of disagreement and confusion for a couple of reasons.

1. First, we all have different personal experiences with discipline/teaching/coaching/child-rearing that color our outlook.
2. Each player is different, and will respond to different method.
3. Each coach is different, and will be more comfortable and more effective with certain approaches over other methods.

There's a fourth factor that I've mentioned a few times. Like many here, I went to college and have children who went. Like a few folks, I also worked on campus for a while - in my case, from 1983 - 1996. The fourth factor is, college students are in a highly dynamic period in their life. Not only are their personalities individual, but, they are changing and maturing so much, and so differently. Some come in, barely 18, but think and act like they're 25. Some leave at 22, but still think and act like they're 15.

It's a real juggling act, for a coach, trying to figure out which "buttons to press" based on personality, but, in this age group, the "right button" can change, sometimes more than once, and in a short time frame.
It's like playing a high-stakes card game, but a game where the rules change as you play it - and, you have to recognize the changes and adapt on the fly.

What's really insidious is, the players are smart, and will try and "play young" or "play old" as it suits them. When threatened, they'll want to play the "I"m a kid" card - when denied something they want, they'll play the "I'm an adult" card. The coaching staff needs to be able to recognize when this is legitimate, and when it's a ruse to gain advantage.

Not easy to do - and, I think Sonny is right in saying that Geno will play the "criticize in public" card on occasion, and that he usually does it "in the right way, whatever that is."

If I had to guess, "the right way" is when there have been repeated attempts to make a point out of the public eye - and the player isn't listening, or is stubbornly rationalizing their refusal to accept it - particularly if it isn't a problem in comprehension, but, rather one of immature defiance. I think that when that happens, Geno basically feels that the player has determined to set their own agenda, and that he doesn't have to cover for them about it. He'll accept responsibility for his thinking and his decisions, but, he's not gonna make excuses for your thinking and decisions if you've steadily refused his guidance.

When it happens, when a UConn player gets called out in public, folks get upset at Geno - he's throwin' 'em under the bus, they're just kids, he's the adult here, yada, yada, yada.
But, he's trying to turn them into adults. And, one of the most important thing you need to learn as an adult is, you are responsible for your decisions - nobody else. Not coach, not Mom & Dad, not your peers, not your teachers, you are - and, you don't get to "own" just the good decisions, the successes. You get to own the failures, the stupid choices, the real foul-ups, the immature ones, the lack of attention, the sloppy, half-a$$ed ones too.

There's all kinds a' cliches about this sort of thing - "friends come and go, but, enemies accumulate", "Success has many fathers, but, failure is an orphan", "failures are the only things you can truly call your own" - but, in our current culture, admission of .. hell, not even failure, admission of less-than-stunningly success, is a sign of weakness.

Now, children are inclined to avoid the consequences of responsibility anyway - that's why it's doled out so carefully and gradually as they age and mature. But, we've seemed to "up the ante" when it comes to evading perceived blame. Nearly a year ago, I saw an on-line post that described the current-day American Public Eye as "The Land of "Gotcha!"". I think that's true. We're teaching children the destructive combination of "You're a special snowflake" and "you can't show ignorance/fallibility/weakness/flaws".

We tell 'em they're nearly perfect, and we tell 'em that admitting they're aren't nearly perfect is to be avoided at all costs. We've heard former players refer to Geno as "tearing you down, then he builds you back up again". I think this is part of what he tears down - this self-image of "I'm nearly perfect, and I can't possibly admit to myself or others that I'm not". I think part of what he builds up is "embrace your failures, learn from them - once you admit you can do better, that you don't know everything, then there's no limit to what you can improve upon." When that's the motivation to criticizing a player or a performance in public - not to excuse them or yourself, but to hold them accountable for an immature refusal to learn - then, it can be productive.
 

msf22b

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I strongly suspected somebody would mention this, and, it is an odd thing. One of the fairly frequent 'bones of contention" on this board is "how to treat players". It's a natural source of disagreement and confusion for a couple of reasons.

Fascinating Post Pinot
Much to chew over and consider
Many thanks!
 

BigBird

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Certainly not a ringing endorsement of her as a coach. Sounded more like subdued, "We're keeping her for now."

Agreed. The statements are notable for what they don't say. This is far from a clean check-up, instead resembling an administrative short leash, as I see it. I've written enough "fitness reports" to recognize a verbal smoke screen.
 
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Thanks for this vowelguy. Obviously I disagree with you on both these things.
1. Yes, athletic budgets are constrained, but not under exceptional circumstances, where law suits and bad publicity can damage the brand (think lacrosse). Any major university president, convinced that a coach is somehow endangering her players emotionally or physically, won't hesitate to step in and pay any price to change the situation. It's a one-time buy out and not part of the athletic budget.
2. HR was explicitly brought in to investigate the charges. It wasn't whether she was a winning or losing coach, but whether her comportment confirmed to the standards of employment. HR apparently (we are all guessing) said it did. That does tie the AD's hand on that issue, at least. He can say it's won/lose and fire her for that if he wants to try, but probably not (guessing again) on grounds of mismanagement.

Duke is not going to spend $2m to fire a WCBB coach, unless she's the worst coach ever. Not gonna happen.

HR is a natural to investigate any situation of inappropriate behavior. HR can only tell the AD if she has sufficiently violated the terms of her contract that they could terminate it without fully paying it.
The AD can fire (and fully pay) any coach he wants to for any reason (other than race/religion/etc). ANY reason. HR is not tying his hands.
 

UcMiami

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Well, as one would expect Mike Flynn is all smiles and roses on this subject on his twitter. :rolleyes:
 
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Well, as one would expect Mike Flynn is all smiles and roses on this subject on his twitter. :rolleyes:
Looks like he's going to do his best to expose every potential Dook recruit to his (his girls'?) version of the 'truth.'
 
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Duke is not going to spend $2m to fire a WCBB coach, unless she's the worst coach ever. Not gonna happen.

HR is a natural to investigate any situation of inappropriate behavior. HR can only tell the AD if she has sufficiently violated the terms of her contract that they could terminate it without fully paying it.
The AD can fire (and fully pay) any coach he wants to for any reason (other than race/religion/etc). ANY reason. HR is not tying his hands.

Yep.

Does beg the question though: at which schools would $2M+ to buy out contract of WCBB coach, purely on performance, be within the realm of possibility? UConn and Tennessee probably. Notre Dame maybe? Any others? South Carolina? I'm not sure even Baylor or Texas care enough about WCBB (vs. their other sports) to make a buy out like that...
 

UcMiami

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Texas has already paid at least that much once to buy out GG. Not sure Uconn or TN would.
 
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Texas has already paid at least that much once to buy out GG. Not sure Uconn or TN would.

Texas didn't buy out GG, she resigned. (Left $2M+ on the table actually.)
 

UcMiami

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Texas didn't buy out GG, she resigned. (Left $2M+ on the table actually.)
Are you sure - always felt that was a financially arranged resignation.
 
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I disagree about the $2M price tag issue. IF it's a won-lost issue, then, yes, it may be a matter of finances. But IF it's a question of how players are treated, then $2M is an extremely cheap way for a school to avoid a potentially terrible outcome. Don't think of it as how much a school values WCBB; think of it as how an extremely high profile school values avoiding ANY potential crisis resulting in physical or mental danger. Duke has had its run-ins with disastrously bad publicity, and would glady spend $2M to avoid something similar. $2M is a rounding error on Duke's annual budget, and I suspect it pays out that sort of money pretty casually to make other problems disappear, let alone to prevent them in the first place.

It's fun to slam other schools or unpopular (to us) ADs and HCs, but sometimes other people actually have information that we Boneyarders don't have and sometimes they actually process that information effectively. :)
 
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They were 20-12 overall and 8-8 league last year. Would something like 12-20 and 4-12 this coming year change the ad's mind reulting in paying off/buying out the remaining years of her contract?
That would probably give the AD, if he is leaning that way, something to dump here---depending on the cost of contract buy out.
 
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