Looks Like ACC CCG Dergulation WIll Pass

[MSNDfan]

When did I bash UConn? In fact, I have been very complimentary of UConn during my time on this forum and congratulated you after you won. I have also been very vocal about wanting you in the Big10. Just because we see things differently about what The NCAA Tournament means, doesn't mean I'm bashing UConn.

Join the club. I came here to say that I think UConn belongs in the ACC and that the likely to be adopted new NCAA rule regarding divisions will mean the ACC could add UConn without a partner, and immediately the attacks fly, most directed at the ACC, some at ND.

Some UConn fans here are so eaten up with bitterness that if a BC fan were to post that BC football needs to play UConn annually, which would benefit both, they would bash BC, the ACC, the BC poster, ND, Catholic colleges generally, denying that UConn needs any help from any of that brood of vipers to do anything.

And that bitterness that occasionally comes out against someone like you, probably will grow against your conference and its members the longer you do not add UConn.

 

[SubbaBub]

That's statistically incorrect. Going into the year, even the best team in the country has only about a 33 percent chance of reaching a Final Four, give or take some percent based on the team's dominance and regional draw.

Here's an example of the ridiculousness of people harping on Final Four runs: Wisconsin had drawn a lot of criticism for a lack of tournament success under Bo Ryan through the years. However, I went back, using Sagarin odds, and did the probability of them making a Final Four at least one time from 2002 through 2013. The result? Fifty seven (57) percent. So basically not much more than a coin flip that they should have advanced in that time. Yet people had authoritatively claimed Bo Ryan was a terrible 'tournament coach' because they'd not made the Final Four.

A person trying to do a statistical research project in academia would be laughed out of the field if he tried supporting a hypothesis on the basis of population/sample of 15-20 when he ignored hundreds of perfectly reasonable datapoints to do so.

It's flat out silly to base a team or league based on what happens in a single-elimination tournament. It doesn't matter how important a championship is to people, it's without merit in terms of qualitative analysis.

Hey, that's an interesting....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[SubbaBub]

I'm talking about national championships. We regularly see overrated, over-seeded teams win two fluff games and put together a string of two wins to find their way into a final four. It gets statistically harder to win the final two games in three days against qualified competition. When you look at all the teams and all the variables, there is nothing happenstance about 4 national championships in sixteen seasons.

Every other team lost. If this were CFB they wouldn't be #1. In 2014, the only team that has a case is Wisconsin. Every other team was dumped by a non-FF team or directly by UConn.

Nearly every team save WSU and FL have 6+ losses going in. WSU got beat by UK and we beat FL twice. UConn was the best team in 2014.

 

[Thirdelement]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

 

[Stray_Dog]

When did I bash UConn? In fact, I have been very complimentary of UConn during my time on this forum and congratulated you after you won. I have also been very vocal about wanting you in the Big10. Just because we see things differently about what The NCAA Tournament means, doesn't mean I'm bashing UConn.

I don't think this was directed at you. At least IMO, I find you articulate your arguments in a logical and concise manner. I enjoy your posts and I can think of a few UConn Fans that I would like to post no further such as NelsonMR.Munts

 

[Stray_Dog]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

WOW! Totally Impressed and for that post I no longer dislike ND 100% just 95% - but heck it is an improvement!

 

[SubbaBub]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

ND has always been straight about what's it's desires are. My only issue was ND siding with the BB schools when issues of FB/BB related friction arose. They should have said, we're ND we'll figure it out. Whatever you guys want to.do is good with us.

They voted against the side they would have been on, had they been full members. Other than that, I have no real problem with ND.

 

[huskeynut]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

After following this thread and some of the posters who think they know something (when they know nothing) - we finally have a poster who understands how UCONN fans feel.

Thank you!

 

[The Funster]

Join the club. I came here to say that I think UConn belongs in the ACC and that the likely to be adopted new NCAA rule regarding divisions will mean the ACC could add UConn without a partner, and immediately the attacks fly, most directed at the ACC, some at ND.

Some UConn fans here are so eaten up with bitterness that if a BC fan were to post that BC football needs to play UConn annually, which would benefit both, they would bash BC, the ACC, the BC poster, ND, Catholic colleges generally, denying that UConn needs any help from any of that brood of vipers to do anything.

And that bitterness that occasionally comes out against someone like you, probably will grow against your conference and its members the longer you do not add UConn.

As if you haven't fanned the flames with some of your recent posts

Why don't you leave?

 

[kyleslamb]

Hey, that's an interesting....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Sorry that it's too advanced a concept for your paradigm.

 

[UConn Dan]

Sorry that it's too advanced a concept for your paradigm.

Kyle did you attempt to FOI the ACC grant of rights? I recall you getting the Big 12 one published.

I'm thinking the ACC GOR is contingent upon a network getting off the ground. Based on the docs released today from Maryland lawsuit we know that ESPN had to get back to them relatively soon if viable and the deal will be structured the same as SEC. Will be interesting to see how raycom plays into it.

 

[kyleslamb]

Kyle did you attempt to FOI the ACC grant of rights? I recall you getting the Big 12 one published.

I'm thinking the ACC GOR is contingent upon a network getting off the ground. Based on the docs released today from Maryland lawsuit we know that ESPN had to get back to them relatively soon if viable and the deal will be structured the same as SEC. Will be interesting to see how raycom plays into it.

No I haven't, though I might make a run at that now that you mention it. My guess is that if it's indeed signed, something I have yet to see confirmed, it will be fairly straight forward as was the Big 12's.

 

[itgoeslike]

No I haven't, though I might make a run at that now that you mention it. My guess is that if it's indeed signed, something I have yet to see confirmed, it will be fairly straight forward as was the Big 12's.

I'd be very surprised if you find something tangible that's actually signed. . .but good luck on your quest.

 

[Fishy]

Kyle did you attempt to FOI the ACC grant of rights? I recall you getting the Big 12 one published.

I'm thinking the ACC GOR is contingent upon a network getting off the ground. Based on the docs released today from Maryland lawsuit we know that ESPN had to get back to them relatively soon if viable and the deal will be structured the same as SEC. Will be interesting to see how raycom plays into it.

Here's the thing....

That document must have been produced prior to the grant of rights.

If so, the "sixty to ninety day' conversation between the ACC and ESPN has already happened.

And there's no network on the horizon.

It would seem that it was just happy, happy talk meant to pitch Florida State on staying and wasn't really on ESPN's radar to any great extent.

I can't imagine that half-assed presentation did much to sway them, however. The SEC saying "nah" had much more of an impact.

 

[UConn Dan]

Here's the thing.... That document must have been produced prior to the grant of rights. If so, the "sixty to ninety day' conversation between the ACC and ESPN has already happened. And there's no network on the horizon. It would seem that it was just happy, happy talk meant to pitch Florida State on staying and wasn't really on ESPN's radar to any great extent. I can't imagine that half-assed presentation did much to sway them, however. The SEC saying "nah" had much more of an impact.

you are likely right about the time frame being now elapsed since that doc was produced last year. Not sure why I was thinking that the 90 day clock just started. Doh

 

[WestHartHusk]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

Excellent.

 

[The Funster]

I have noticed some members criticizing the UConn fans for being bitter. I myself am a fan and graduate of Notre Dame.

I would like to say that I feel that the UConn fans have every right to be bitter. They should have not have been left out of the P5. If they can't be bitter on their own site, where can they?

I understand their anger at BC for all the reasons they have noted.

I understand their frustration with the ACC for all the reasons they have noted.

I also understand their displeasure with ND. ND does have the right to remain independent. Independence is part of the institution's identity. However, teaching community service and consideration of the needs of others and fair play are also hallmarks of the institution's identity. So, when we hold onto our independence, and do not seem to be "team players" in terms of trying to formulate a rational post season for football, we need to be open to criticism, because it's probably pretty fair.

Thank you for this post. There have been more than a few posters from other schools who have not been able to relate to how UConn fans feel about our predicament. When we try to explain our feelings we often get lectured and/or told how we should feel. Your observation about the ND perception of not being a team player is particularly astute. Every institution has the right to do as they see fit. ND was in the BE for their own purposes and then left when they got a better offer rather than staying to try and help their conference mates. I don't begrudge them that. However, there shouldn't be any issues with ND being criticized for that either.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's my point. B is pronounced "bee." 1 is pronounced "one." G is pronounced 'gee.' Bee One Gee. I'm just making certain people don't mispronounce it as 'big,' which semi-literates are prone to do. Funny that all BeeOneGee fans seem to pronounce that number as if it were a letter. And yes, ND is pronounced 'en dee.' We all know how to pronounce it.

I will make this simple for you. If you misspell and twist the names of schools or conferences in an effort to mock them, you look like (and quite possibly are) a third grade boy of below average intelligence. It's an elementary school level taunt used by those without the intellect to convey real ideas or to persuade others. It is childish and causes those reading your posts to devalue whatever you might have attempted to say, appropriately so.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The question remains, why would anyone invite us right now? There has to be a $ number attached to the equation.

Let's say Delany wants to get us in and growing while we are hot.

He needs to assure $2-3 for all subscribers in CT on all systems basic tier.

He needs legislature support to expand the Rent to 55k.

He needs his member schools to convince the AAU to invite UConn.

He needs to convince his member Presidents this is a good idea.

He needs to convince some broadcast outfit to up the fees for the additional content.

That's a lot for one man.

You guys need to win a few bowl games. That's the fastest way to improve the profile of your football team. Pasqualoni was an epically bad situation, but now you're starting over.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I am not certain that the ACC will see the "wisdom" of adding UConn to fight the Big Ten for the elusive (and perhaps non-existent) "control" of NYC.

Can UConn add about $22 million for themselves and extra revenue for everyone else as far as the ESPN TV contract?

Maybe, just maybe it will be enough to break even with UConn's addition just to stick a finger in Jim Delany's eye, I don't know.

Can UConn generate enough revenue for the ACC to pay for itself and add some money to each other member's share?

That would mean, what, maybe $22 million for its own share plus a million or two for the other 15 members?

Isn't that really the main issue here? I don't know the answer but to overcome all of the other issues (BC, Syracuse, FSU, Clemson, et al), doesn't UConn have to bring lots of revenue to the table?

UConn doesn't add that much more to the ACC, in terms of eyeballs or prestige. They already have the east coast audience wrapped up. The Big 10 needs UConn a lot more to generate interest on the East Coast. You're worth more to them than to the ACC.

 

[SAMCRO]

You guys need to win a few bowl games. That's the fastest way to improve the profile of your football team. Pasqualoni was an epically bad situation, but now you're starting over.

Is that how SU got into the ACC, averaging 3 wins/season in the 7 years leading up to their invite? Love it when SU and RU visitors preach to UConn about FB success being the key when our resume is stronger than both over the last 11 years (you know, the time span that we were all playing on a level playing field).

 

[TRest]

Syracuse, Pitt and BC wrap up the east coast? In what universe?

 

[Dooley]

NYC is primarily a college basketball town thanks, in large part, to its Big East roots. I've said in other threads (or maybe this one...all of these threads seem to mirror one another, so I don't know where I said it) that NYC is a two-school town for hoops: UCONN and Syracuse. There is no interest in St John's unless St John's is ranked #1. Even then, interest is minimal. There is slight interest in Duke because of how heavily it recruits New Jersey. There are also various pockets of fans from B1G schools that hold a fair amount of alumni in the city. ND also has a fair alumni base in NYC. But of the college basketball fans in NYC, I'd say a good 85-90% of them are split between UCONN and Syracuse. So, no, the ACC doesn't have NYC on lockdown. Neither does the B1G. As of today, NYC marketshare is divided between the AAC, ACC, and B1G.

As for football, UCONN has won 3 bowl games since 2003 when we made the move up. 3 bowl wins is more than Northwestern has won (2) and the same amount of bowl games won as P5 schools Duke, Indiana and Iowa State. And UCONN has done it in a much shorter time span, as is well documented everywhere. Next up on the P5 bowl game win list is Vanderbilt (5), Minnesota (5) and our dear friends to the south, who have apparently been playing football since 78 B.C., Rutgers (5). UCONN has also made it to a BCS game in its short history. Say what you will about the 2011 Big East Conference, but every school had a chance to make this claim that year and UCONN was the team that stood up and took it. Not one of these schools that I just mentioned has 1 BCS game, but to be fair, there are many others who don't either. UCONN also has more players in the NFL today than Syracuse, Pitt, BC, and Louisville...a credit to its top-notch facilities. What UCONN has achieved in its short football history has been truly incredible. It's even more incredible when you begin to factor in the three Pasqualoni seasons that we just lost. So while UCONN doesn't have the long losing history of other programs, it certainly boasts very measurable football metrics as other P5 schools even with the lost Paul Pasqualoni era.

But let's call a spade a spade: UCONN is and will always be a basketball-first school. There is nothing wrong with that and there is value in that in the P5 model (especially conferences that are concerned with year-round content). Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Indiana, and Syracuse have all carved out considerable value in being basketball-first schools within the P5 model. Syracuse was even added to the P5 model as a basketball school. The difference between UCONN and all of the other basketball schools is that UCONN offers valuable content across ALL demographics with elite championship winning men's and women's programs. UCONN has the same fervent following that Kentucky does. The difference in fan bases is that ALL Kentucky fans follow/support the men's team only. Our fanbase is partially segmented - some fans follow just the men's program, some fans follow just the women's program, and some fans follow both. If our fanbase (me included) ever learned the value of supporting ALL of UCONN's programs, then watch out.

UCONN has a very respected history of building very successful programs. Both basketball programs are at the top of the college basketball world. There's no doubting that. Football just needs to get back to the pre-Pasqualoni era when it got to bowl games fairly regularly (but not every year). Elite basketball and competitive football. That should be our niche and P5 value.