Looks Like ACC CCG Dergulation WIll Pass

[Durks07]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think this is particularly difficult to understand:

1) UConn fans prefer the B1G to joining the ACC. The ACC, looking to augment its football and basketball, raided the Big East for Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville in the past few years. These moves destroyed the Big East as we know it. Furthermore, twice, UConn was targeted for expansion, however, BC threw up its roadblock, claiming a desire to "be New England's team" and prevent UConn from joining. Argue that BC does not have the power to do this if you like, but do not be surprised when we do not believe you. Member schools of a conference will not fight against the wishes of another if there is a viable alternative to pick. Sadly for UConn, Pitt and Louisville (with Clemson and FSU in tow) were satisfactory alternatives, and the member schools did not have to go against BC's wishes. Notice how rare news of a rejection hits the news wires. Query why UConn fans can readily link multiple sources with quotes as to why they were not invited. Usually, you hear news of the inner workings of a conference when an addition is imminent, not when a school was rejected. There is sufficient evidence to infer a hostility in the ACC to UConn, not from all members probably, but enough smoke exists here that you are blind to pretend there is no fire. Seeing the general hostility towards UConn, it should not surprise you that we prefer to join a different league given the choice.

2) Specifically for the ACC visitors, we DO NOT DEFEND THE ADDITION OF RUTGERS TO THE B1G. We objectively understand it. The B1G's expansion criteria is objective. They look for large, land-grant universities with AAU status, and those who can augment the value of the B1G Network. AAU membership is not the overriding factor, but it counts for a lot. First, they added Nebraska, a legacy football program with a national brand. Nebraska's name adds value to every game they play, making the addition valuable to the B1G network. While no longer in the AAU, they were members, a "like" university whose monetary value outweighed those factors. Maryland and Rutgers have between them 5.277 million cable television households. While athletically average to subpar, the financial value they add is clear. Charge $5 a month for each cable subscriber in those states (assuming you can), and annually, those schools pull in $316.6 million.

We think the B1G probably made a mistake with the Rutgers addition, but we know why they did it.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Oddest? Maybe so. It is easily the most diverse. And that means it is the conference most like the country and its time zone. Some schools are located in large cities and some are in small towns.

Of the 15, 6 are private. 2 of those are Catholic. 2 of those were founded as Methodist colleges and have become independent private schools, though the Duke Divinity school still has ties to the UMC. Wake Forest was founded as a Southern Baptist college, but now is independent. Miami was founded as an independent private university. The private colleges range in size from WFU (4800 undergrads) to Syracuse (15,000 undergrads).

Of the 9 state schools, FSU is the largest. It began as the Women's college of the University of Florida and thus in a sense is half of the 'flagship' state university in FL. Georgia Tech and Clemson, both of which are smaller state schools, are the only two non-flagship state universities in the country to be universally ranked higher academically than their states' flagships universities. Pitt, which like Virginia and North Carolina was on the original list of Public Ivys, was founded as a private school and today is like Penn St in that it is state-related as opposed to being a true state university. Virginia and North Carolina are the two most prestigious state universities in the south. Virginia Tech and North Carolina State are land grant and #2 state schools. Louisville began as a municipal university - I think it was the first city owned college in the country. For decades KY operated it as basically an open admission school for people living in or near the state's largest city. But the growth of the state, city, and university has meant much greater state funding. Louisville rather surprisingly has an academic endowment of about 1.2 billion dollars, which is larger than the University of Kentucky. That endowment and the ACC affiliations probably will mean that over time Louisville joins the club of Georgia Tech and Clemson.

I was trying to figure out the second Catholic School. Is ND still considered a Catholic school or a member of the ACC. (Sorry I couldn't resist)
Just because UConn fans prefer to be in the B1G ,it certainly isn't a forgone conclusion that it will ever happen. Most of us are realistic, which leads us to the conclusion we will never be accepted into the ACC. There is apparently a vocal minority within that conference opposed to UConn which precludes our membership. Chasing the ACC is futile.
That opposition will only be overcome when it is apparent that UConn is approaching a B1G invite. Either way UConn's best strategy is to pursue B1g acceptance. Rutgers is integral to that strategy. Our president has actually adopted a B1G type agenda with her focus on expansion, endowment,academics and research growth. Coupled with continued support of our athletic programs.
I think any reasonable human could empathize with a UConn fan frustration at our situation. I do with all the schools who came out on the short end of CR. If you don't I feel sorry for your innate lack of humanity.
I have stated that if UConn goes to a P5 conference in the postscript on CR that move will be considered a no brainer.

 

[btstimpy]

Methinks you are LOOKING for it not "finding" it!?!What's even worse you "pass on" negativity with apparent glee!! Boy would it be fun meeting u. If you're so anti-B1G WTF are u trolling their boards for anyway? Even i rarely venture outside the local board's...I don't even participate on RU's board....u seem to be a "troller" lol if i might politely(as u do) say.

I don't visit any other Big Ten boards other than Penn State. I started visiting theirs when UVA played Penn State in football in 2012. I have a good idea of what they think. I have no interest in any other Big Ten board. I do visit all of the ACC boards except for the Maryland Board because it is pay. I visit this board because it is about CR and a thread on the Texas board about CR. That's about it. I don't recall being on the Rutgers board. You may have pointed out something there sometime that I looked at, but it was a while ago. I don't remember.

 

[lv99]

Gentlemen, please, let's try to pull ourselves together. There are actually some people on here trying to defend the attributes Rutgers brings to a league. That's not appropriate.

Let me explain a little about what I like to call my "bad apple" theory of conference realignment. When you invite a bad apple into your conference, it ruins the league. This is what has happened with Rutgers to the Big Ten. That move is going to totally destroy the Big Ten. The same thing happened with Boston College to the ACC. Now look at them.

What's that you say? Won't the Big Ten be able to elevate the Rutgers program at least somewhat so maybe they are at the Northwestern level of athletic prominence, or at the very least not destroy the rest of the Big Ten schools? No. That's just how bad Rutgers is. They are going to completely destroy every other program. Soon you will see Big Ten teams fleeing for the Big 12. To which Rutgers will respond "Hey guys, where are you all going? What's the problem?" Just look at the shenanigans that have been going on there at Rutgers since they were invited. They're not even really members yet. Just think how bad it will be once they are truly in the league, spreading the stink of their rottenness to the other programs.

The only way to counteract it is to invite a quality program like UConn to your league. Why? Because we've been there and coexisted with Rutgers and Boston College. We know how to deal with them. We can cancel out what damage those schools to do their leagues. It would be even better to just kick out those schools and invite UConn, but if they aren't going to do that, this is the next best thing.

 

[Fishy]

The only way to counteract it is to invite a quality program like UConn to your league. Why? Because we've been there and coexisted with Rutgers and Boston College. We know how to deal with them. We can cancel out what damage those schools to do their leagues. It would be even better to just kick those schools and invite UConn, but if they aren't going to do that, this is the next best thing.

This is genius.

Your conference just drank poison. We're the bromide.

 

[kyleslamb]

If you go back 25 years the B1G has won only 1 National Championship in hoops - MSU in 2000. That is pretty darn pathetic for a "big time" conference.

In that same timeframe, they lead in Final Four appearances if memory serves me correctly.

Judging an entire league by what happens in a 63 (now 67) game tournament out of a sample of over 5,000 games in a college basketball season seems a bit narrow.

Too much emphasis is put on the tournament in terms of judging quality. It's simply not a big enough sample to critique the quality of a team or league.

 

[businesslawyer]

I am not certain it would have, but I have said on this board several times it very well could.

The bitterness of so many UConn fans blinds you to all kinds of rather obvious details, including that I came here not to tell you that would be never move from the AAC but to explain to you how things happened and why UConn, unless its fan reactions on the internet make the ACC see UConn as another WVU, is most likely the school the ACC hopes to add next.

Did it ever occur to you that if we wanted or needed you to explain things to us, we would have asked you? I didn't think so.

 

[Vuce]

In that same timeframe, they lead in Final Four appearances if memory serves me correctly.

Judging an entire league by what happens in a 63 (now 67) game tournament out of a sample of over 5,000 games in a college basketball season seems a bit narrow.

Too much emphasis is put on the tournament in terms of judging quality. It's simply not a big enough sample to critique the quality of a team or league.

Like it or not that is how it is. Programs and conferences are judged by how they do in March. Elite programs and conferences are judged by how many championships they have won. Pro sports is the same. The Atlanta Braves are looked at as kind of a disappointment because they had so much talent, made it to the postseason all the time and won 1 ring. The Bills with their 4 consecutive trips to the Super Bowl with no rings, Dan Marino being a great QB but people will say "no ring", Sergio Garcia being a really good player but never winning a major, and on and on. The more times the B1G gets to the Final Four without a program winning it the bigger the story will be about the conference drought.

 

[kyleslamb]

Like it or not that is how it is. Programs and conferences are judged by how they do in March. Elite programs and conferences are judged by how many championships they have won. Pro sports is the same. The Atlanta Braves are looked at as kind of a disappointment because they had so much talent, made it to the postseason all the time and won 1 ring. The Bills with their 4 consecutive trips to the Super Bowl with no rings, Dan Marino being a great QB but people will say "no ring", Sergio Garcia being a really good player but never winning a major, and on and on. The more times the B1G gets to the Final Four without a program winning it the bigger the story will be about the conference drought.

It doesn't make it right. I'm aware that's what happens, but it isn't very prudent.

Statistically speaking, if we're truly interested in debating who the best team(s) or league(s) are, it's not a good idea to use the tournament. You'd want to use the regular season and tournament. You'd ideally want the entire season's sample used. I saw an article from Nate Silver the other day on the subject of professional sports and regular season samples and he stated that for basketball, crowning a true champion would require at least 30 games played for each team.

So yeah, relying on a sample in a tournament where a team plays no more than six and a league plays around 15-20 isn't very smart if we're debating qualitative strength.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Soon you will see Big Ten teams fleeing for the Big 12. .

I'm trying to think of a single Big 10 school, or its teams fanbases, that wants to leave the BIG for the B12, but I can't come up with a single school. As for the schools themselves, financially its a wash, as both leagues schools are guaranteed between 26-27 mill payouts each year. With heavy duty exit fees now in place, no school is going to make what is at best a financial lateral move. So I'm not sure how your crystal ball here will soon be showing" Big 10 teams fleeing for the Big 12 ". But time will tell, and maybe you'll be proven right here, who knows.

 

[StevieDude]

I'm trying to think of a single Big 10 school, or its teams fanbases, that wants to leave the BIG for the B12, but I can't come up with a single school. As for the schools themselves, financially its a wash, as both leagues schools are guaranteed between 26-27 mill payouts each year. With heavy duty exit fees now in place, no school is going to make what is at best a financial lateral move. So I'm not sure how your crystal ball here will soon be showing" Big 10 teams fleeing for the Big 12 ". But time will tell, and maybe you'll be proven right here, who knows.

Are you really that stupid?

 

[FrostyNuggets]

I'm trying to think of a single Big 10 school, or its teams fanbases, that wants to leave the BIG for the B12, but I can't come up with a single school. As for the schools themselves, financially its a wash, as both leagues schools are guaranteed between 26-27 mill payouts each year. With heavy duty exit fees now in place, no school is going to make what is at best a financial lateral move. So I'm not sure how your crystal ball here will soon be showing" Big 10 teams fleeing for the Big 12 ". But time will tell, and maybe you'll be proven right here, who knows.

Do we need an actor to do a reading for you to see the humor?

 

[StevieDude]

Do we need an actor to do a reading for you to see the humor?

Oh good it wasn't just me

 

[btstimpy]

Gentlemen, please, let's try to pull ourselves together. There are actually some people on here trying to defend the attributes Rutgers brings to a league. That's not appropriate.

Let me explain a little about what I like to call my "bad apple" theory of conference realignment. When you invite a bad apple into your conference, it ruins the league. This is what has happened with Rutgers to the Big Ten. That move is going to totally destroy the Big Ten. The same thing happened with Boston College to the ACC. Now look at them.

What's that you say? Won't the Big Ten be able to elevate the Rutgers program at least somewhat so maybe they are at the Northwestern level of athletic prominence, or at the very least not destroy the rest of the Big Ten schools? No. That's just how bad Rutgers is. They are going to completely destroy every other program. Soon you will see Big Ten teams fleeing for the Big 12. To which Rutgers will respond "Hey guys, where are you all going? What's the problem?" Just look at the shenanigans that have been going on there at Rutgers since they were invited. They're not even really members yet. Just think how bad it will be once they are truly in the league, spreading the stink of their rottenness to the other programs.

The only way to counteract it is to invite a quality program like UConn to your league. Why? Because we've been there and coexisted with Rutgers and Boston College. We know how to deal with them. We can cancel out what damage those schools to do their leagues. It would be even better to just kick out those schools and invite UConn, but if they aren't going to do that, this is the next best thing.

LOL. Well played. After a decade, Boston College had contributed well in the ACC with out damage, but I agree that we need UConn to come to so that UConn could teach them a lesson or two in basketball and get a New England rivalry going again like you had before.

 

[MSNDfan]

I'm trying to think of a single Big 10 school, or its teams fanbases, that wants to leave the BIG for the B12, but I can't come up with a single school. As for the schools themselves, financially its a wash, as both leagues schools are guaranteed between 26-27 mill payouts each year. With heavy duty exit fees now in place, no school is going to make what is at best a financial lateral move. So I'm not sure how your crystal ball here will soon be showing" Big 10 teams fleeing for the Big 12 ". But time will tell, and maybe you'll be proven right here, who knows.

He's being facetious, starting with his take on Rutgers as a poison addition to the BeeOneGee. It's part of his way to make the case that UConn fans are not as intensely defensive of Rutgers as they seem to me to be.

 

[SAMCRO]

Tom/Fishy, give whoever came up with the "ignore" button a bonus.

 

[BlueHen]

Somebody has to take the time to help us pronounce those 3 symbols that are stuck together to label a conference.

Why? Those symbols are two letters and a number and everyone knows how to pronounce them. Surely they have them at En Dee.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I don't visit any other Big Ten boards other than Penn State. I started visiting theirs when UVA played Penn State in football in 2012. I have a good idea of what they think.

Are you... Ok?

We've lost a number of good people that way (BWI?). My advice; quit now. And get help if needed, before it's too late.

 

[MSNDfan]

Why? Those symbols are two letters and a number and everyone knows how to pronounce them. Surely they have them at En Dee.

That's my point. B is pronounced "bee." 1 is pronounced "one." G is pronounced 'gee.'

Bee One Gee. I'm just making certain people don't mispronounce it as 'big,' which semi-literates are prone to do. Funny that all BeeOneGee fans seem to pronounce that number as if it were a letter.

And yes, ND is pronounced 'en dee.' We all know how to pronounce it.

 

[BlueHen]

That's my point. B is pronounced "bee." 1 is pronounced "one." G is pronounced 'gee.'

Bee One Gee. I'm just making certain people don't mispronounce it as 'big,' which semi-literates are prone to do. Funny that all BeeOneGee fans seem to pronounce that number as if it were a letter.

And yes, en dee is pronounced 'en dee.' We all know how to pronounce it.

Why do you care how people pronounce it? Everyone knows who you are talking about.

 

[The Funster]

It seems obvious that most UConn fans, here at least, think the way your opening sentence runs. But I don't think Rutgers means anything to UConn in that sense. That the BeeOneGee rescued Maryland from its fiscal failures does not mean it will rescue another school within the same basic area. In fact, rescuing a second such school, flushing it with cash, probably would hurt the ability of Maryland to use the BTN and the conference money to get things turned around.

The same goes with the area in and around NYC. The more different schools in that area the BeeOneGee tries to pump up, the less money and promotion each of those schools can receive. The NYC TV market is not going to double the money it will pay the BTN because a second school near that market is added. And that would be true even if ND were not the major football draw in the market.

The logic that seems to escape most UConn fans on this board is one that most Pitt fans caught on to rather quickly. The way the BeeOneGee thinks and acts, Pitt was of little to no value. To the BeeOneGee mind, adding Pitt would only double up TV market. That Pitt-Penn State played annually once again almost certainly would become a killer Thanksgiving weekend rivalry as it was for decades carried no weight. Nor did the quality of Pitt basketball and its large basketball fan base, which would give the BeeOneGee a basketball power with fans in PA.

To the BeeOneGee, actual improved quality of play means very little; a new school in a brand new large TV market means almost everything.

UConn probably is superfluous to the BeeOneGee.

I can't help but think that this kind of post is written with a wry smile on one's face, the same kind of smile that one has as he pins live butterflies on his bedroom wall.

I had to read this post three times because, as you so helpfully try to point out, UConn fan seem to miss the "logic" that comes so easily to one such as you.

I mean, it is one thing to post an opinion and it is another set oneself up as some kind of authority and lecture the rest of us. To be the former, you just have to be a fan with a modicum of intelligence and some passion. To be the latter you actually have to make statements that have logical consistency.

The above post has one major and one minor logical flaw which reveals you to be more of a horse's a s s than any kind of authority and certainly no one who should lift his head high enough to lecture anyone.

I would never condemn anyone for being a fan but if you ever feel the need to lecture anyone again, I'd suggest you review your post so as to not embarrass yourself.

 

[kyleslamb]

I don't visit any other Big Ten boards other than Penn State. I started visiting theirs when UVA played Penn State in football in 2012. I have a good idea of what they think. I have no interest in any other Big Ten board. I do visit all of the ACC boards except for the Maryland Board because it is pay. I visit this board because it is about CR and a thread on the Texas board about CR. That's about it. I don't recall being on the Rutgers board. You may have pointed out something there sometime that I looked at, but it was a while ago. I don't remember.

You really need to stop trying to speak for how B1G fans or Penn State fans feel about it. Visiting BWI does not qualify you to do so. How you perceive Penn State fans based on BWIW is senseless.

I can tell you from personal experience having served as a beat writer, staff contributor and admin for various sites that each board has its own identity and attracts different personalities. Critiquing the consensus opinion of an entire base because of one message board is as silly an exercise as judging the academic credentials of an entire state because of one university.

 

[clmssun]

Tom/Fishy, give whoever came up with the "ignore" button a bonus.

Yes, it's like your own personal "ban" tool; no need to involve the moderators. Excellent idea for message boards like these.

 

[btstimpy]

You really need to stop trying to speak for how B1G fans or Penn State fans feel about it. Visiting BWI does not qualify you to do so. How you perceive Penn State fans based on BWIW is senseless.

I can tell you from personal experience having served as a beat writer, staff contributor and admin for various sites that each board has its own identity and attracts different personalities. Critiquing the consensus opinion of an entire base because of one message board is as silly an exercise as judging the academic credentials of an entire state because of one university.

I go to the Audibles Board on Fight On State too. I'm not speaking for any Penn State fan, but I'm listening to them and relaying what they say. The expansion subject has died down dramatically over there, and they have a new football coach. There is plenty of other stuff to talk about. But the light bulb is going off that they have 2 new teams on their schedule, and they talk about it. I just linked one of the discussions. Yes it was BWI. There are thousands of Nittany Lions on BWI. At least they say that they are.

 

[btstimpy]

Are you... Ok?

We've lost a number of good people that way (BWI?). My advice; quit now. And get help if needed, before it's too late.

You know of a better Penn State Board? I go to Audibles on Fight on State too. Both seem pretty good. There may be another I'm not aware of. They aren't discussing this stuff much anymore. They have a new football coach, and there is a lot to talk about there.

 

[btstimpy]

Why do you care how people pronounce it? Everyone knows who you are talking about.

You must not have been here when he called it BUG. This was the compromise to stop using BUG. Either way everyone knows who it is.

 

[Seaa Blue]

They aren't discussing this stuff much anymore. They have a new football coach, and there is a lot to talk about there.

But there's still crap like:

General questions about the BOT...

1. How many members are currently on it?
2. How many of those members do we like, and how many do we dislike and want out? How many "good" members and how many "bad" members, in other words.
3. How long will it take to get every single member, out of the BOT, that were on it, during November of 2011?
​

And then McAndrew himself (owner/mod ?) responds to give stalker-like detail of everyone on the BOT. For me it is the definition of "creepy".

https://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=172355029&mid=172355029&sid=890&style=2

 

[Ldandy]

But there's still crap like:

General questions about the BOT...

1. How many members are currently on it?
2. How many of those members do we like, and how many do we dislike and want out? How many "good" members and how many "bad" members, in other words.
3. How long will it take to get every single member, out of the BOT, that were on it, during November of 2011?
​

And then McAndrew himself (owner/mod ?) responds to give stalker-like detail of everyone on the BOT. For me it is the definition of "creepy".

https://bwi com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=172355029&mid=172355029&sid=890&style=2

Its easy enough to poke fun from a distance, but you have no idea how truly frustrating our BOT is. It is ruled by an appointed committee of business and industry that never turns over and can't be unseated. This seemingly untouchable group exerts influence over the portion of the board that is elected in order to keep them in line and push whatever agenda they are promoting. The handling of events post Nov 11, 2011 were so bad from a PR standpoint, it has since become a case study published in college text books. If I was on the outside looking in, plenty of this would appear crazy to me too. That said when alums literally have to sue their own school to make its leaders accountable for their epic mismanagement nothing is out of bounds.

 

[itgoeslike]

In that same timeframe, they lead in Final Four appearances if memory serves me correctly.

Judging an entire league by what happens in a 63 (now 67) game tournament out of a sample of over 5,000 games in a college basketball season seems a bit narrow.

Too much emphasis is put on the tournament in terms of judging quality. It's simply not a big enough sample to critique the quality of a team or league.

The ACC has more Final Four appearances than the Big Ten over the past 25 years, even if you count the appearances that were taken away from the Big Ten. The Big East wasn't that far behind.

I usually agree with much of what you post, but the above comment is bit ridiculous. A 64/68 team tournament that is played year in and year out, always includes the top 25 teams in the nation, and requires its champion to win a multitude of consecutive games against progressively tougher competition is plenty of data (unlike a BCS football championship, which is really an "elected" position, decided by a single game). The best teams win when they have to and win often, and it's not a statistical anomaly.

 

[Yawkey Way]

LOL. Well played. After a decade, Boston College had contributed well in the ACC with out damage,

BC has actually done better collectively in football and basketball than Virginia has since BC joined the ACC during the similar time frame. We need Virginia to continue their upswing of late as for quite awhile there, they wern't carrying their weight in the ACC, as I'm sure you'll acknowledge.