Let's Begin The 4 Year Discussion

[CocoHusky]

Before looking 4 years from now think we need to look 2 years from now to 2018 World Championship team roster. Nnemkadi Ogwumike should replace Catch on that roster . If Sue is a no go in 2018 then Odyssey will likely replace her. USA basketball believes in continuity and both Ogwumike & Odyssey were on the 2014 World Championship Roster. No DT in 2018 then you are probably looking at Angel to start and a back up from among ( Jefferson, Diggins, Loyd, and McBride). T. Mitchell is a possibility but K. Mitchell is a loud no thanks because she walked away from USA basketball saying something like: "USA style of basketball was not compatible to her game" . Don't see Wilson, Stevens, Turner or Coates being a contender for '18 WC or '20 Olympic rosters because PF/C position is going to be loaded & versatile. Megan Walker would have to a straight up BEAST- POY by a long shot as a Freshmen- to even be in consideration for these teams. She will be a rising Sophomore '18 WC and rising Senior for '20 Olympics. My guesses would be.

C: Grinner, Charles, Fowles
PF: Stewart, Delle Donne, Ogwumike
SF: Moore, Parker
SG: McCougtry, Loyd
PG: Diggins, Simms

 

[UcMiami]

Moriah really didnt take over UConn till after the break around Christmas time of her Junior Year. Her first 2 years it was Hartleys team. Sue Bird was the best PG in the country for 3 years and if she didnt get hurt possible her Freshmen year also. If Geno is back, at least one of the 2 will be back (Sue & Dee) and barring injury I would hope both would be. All the guards being mentioned are not ready to lead. They are very good players but with those 2 mentoring whoever USA Basketball decides on will be better off.

Moriah really took off as a Sophomore after Christmas and played the final three months of the year and ended up leading the starters in: Assists, A/TO, shooting percentage, 3 point percentage, and steals - having more assists and fewer turnovers than Bria, and shooting the three better than KML, and Stef in field goal percentage. Bria and Stef were the seniors and KML was the junior so yes, it was their team, but Moriah was the PG and she put up better stats than Sue in everything except three point shooting.

Dillon77 - Diggins and Sims are both somewhat 'combo' guards, but if Diggins does not play overseas, I think she will likely fall behind other guards in the pecking order - USA seems to be very aware of what pool players are doing in the off-season. Carol specifically mentioned following Robinson's success in Europe closely and it being a positive in their evaluation of her. I think USA doesn't have any issue with combo guards - having DT on this Olympic team made Sue's injury much easier to deal with as she became the second PG, trading time with Whalen.

 

[CocoHusky]

Moriah really didnt take over UConn till after the break around Christmas time of her Junior Year. Her first 2 years it was Hartleys team.

Moriah really took off as a Sophomore after Christmas and played the final three months of the year and ended up leading the starters in: Assists, A/TO, shooting percentage, 3 point percentage, and steals - having more assists and fewer turnovers than Bria, and shooting the three better than KML, and Stef in field goal percentage. Bria and Stef were the seniors and KML was the junior so yes, it was their team, but Moriah was the PG and she put up better stats than Sue in everything except three point shooting.

How quickly we forget. Sophomore Moriah Jefferson was special in UCONN's three most important road games of the '13-'14 season @ MD, @Baylor, @Duke . Of those three games only Baylor came after Christmas. Bria was a Senior and for UCONN seniors are expected to be team leaders, but if anyone things MoJeff took a backseat to Bria in performance they had better check the box scores from those games. Moriah had good and bad games before and after Christmas. Since conference play starts after Christmas and UCONN found itself in the AAC with not even ( Louisville) presenting much opposition I would expect her stats to get better after Christmas.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dillon77]

Moriah really took off as a Sophomore after Christmas and played the final three months of the year and ended up leading the starters in: Assists, A/TO, shooting percentage, 3 point percentage, and steals - having more assists and fewer turnovers than Bria, and shooting the three better than KML, and Stef in field goal percentage. Bria and Stef were the seniors and KML was the junior so yes, it was their team, but Moriah was the PG and she put up better stats than Sue in everything except three point shooting.

Dillon77 - Diggins and Sims are both somewhat 'combo' guards, but if Diggins does not play overseas, I think she will likely fall behind other guards in the pecking order - USA seems to be very aware of what pool players are doing in the off-season. Carol specifically mentioned following Robinson's success in Europe closely and it being a positive in their evaluation of her. I think USA doesn't have any issue with combo guards - having DT on this Olympic team made Sue's injury much easier to deal with as she became the second PG, trading time with Whalen.

UcMiami -- Diggins and Sims remind me of the NBA in my teen years when you had backcourts like Frazier and Barnett/Monroe or West/Goodrich, when the guards took turns running point and/or shooting. I mentioned that she was a combo because a number of folks I talk to think she's strictly a shooting guard when, in fact, she has the second most assists in ND's history, to go along with her program-leading points scored and steals.

As for the overseas, this year was dedicated to rehabbing the knee. We'll see if she heads overseas this time around...she's done a few clinics in China. I agree that she needs to get "on stage" a bit more often, particularly coming off the injury. Last winter really helped both her former ND alums, Loyd and McBride.

 

[EricSD]

A reasonable list, my friend, but I'd put Sugar on the SG list and Williams on the Center list.

Probably - I thought about that, but at least for Williams, at 6'3", less athletic and a lesser reach than Stokes, I put her as a 5. IMHO 5's need to be taller or have a longer reach in international play, but you are probably right...

 

[UcMiami]

UcMiami -- Diggins and Sims remind me of the NBA in my teen years when you had backcourts like Frazier and Barnett/Monroe or West/Goodrich, when the guards took turns running point and/or shooting. I mentioned that she was a combo because a number of folks I talk to think she's strictly a shooting guard when, in fact, she has the second most assists in ND's history, to go along with her program-leading points scored and steals.

As for the overseas, this year was dedicated to rehabbing the knee. We'll see if she heads overseas this time around...she's done a few clinics in China. I agree that she needs to get "on stage" a bit more often, particularly coming off the injury. Last winter really helped both her former ND alums, Loyd and McBride.

Didn't mean to imply a correction to your statement and I have always thought of Diggins as a combo guard, but agree that others may not.

On the overseas issue, it has been brought up by women NT members and commentators during this past Olympics in two respects: the familiarity with the foreign players and their games/preferences as both teammates and opponents during the winter season being a big advantage for USA team members; and, the disadvantage for the men in not being familiar with international rules and officiating, nor with many of the players and style of international team play. Specific to Diggins, the last time she played internationally I think was 2011 in the PanAms and I think if she is serious about making a USA team that needs to be addressed - it is one thing for EDD the reigning WNBA MVP to be a novice in international play because she has already distinguished herself as the 'best' in the WNBA, Diggins is just one of a pack of good guards, none of whom have really distinguished themselves from the rest of the pack.

 

[JSB60]

Looking at this season's WNBA numbers, MoJeff and Sims are very comparable:

Jefferson 12 PPG, 4 APG, 2.2 A/TO
Sims 14 PPG, 4 APG, 1.4 A/TO

Moriah is a rookie, and I think matches up well in a head to head tryout.

 

[UcMiami]

Looking at this season's WNBA numbers, MoJeff and Sims are very comparable:

Jefferson 12 PPG, 4 APG, 2.2 A/TO
Sims 14 PPG, 4 APG, 1.4 A/TO

Moriah is a rookie, and I think matches up well in a head to head tryout.

I think where the separation comes in is: A/TO 2.2 v 1.4 and shooting percentages: Sims .342/.305, Moriah .447/.451 - in other words, efficiency.

Some others:
Diggins: A/TO 1.4, .390/.283
Loyd: 1.2, .448/.313
Sloot: 2.9, .400/.333
January: 1.6, .377/.385

And Moriah is playing on easily the worst team which does not help her numbers.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Wilson IMO is overrated. Still needs abetter foul line jumper. I dont see her playing the 4 in the WNBA. Right now maybe a 5 but I Dont see her playing before Dolson and I would be suprised if Steph made it. As for a pg Jordan Canada will be the best in the country this year.

Wilson IMO is not unlike Griner was in college, depending on her athleticism (with BG, height) to get everything done, and with a coach who is OK with just being good. I see her getting to the next level and learning how to play her position. Parker and Charles are two players who can teach her a lot.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Looking at this season's WNBA numbers, MoJeff and Sims are very comparable:

Jefferson 12 PPG, 4 APG, 2.2 A/TO
Sims 14 PPG, 4 APG, 1.4 A/TO

Moriah is a rookie, and I think matches up well in a head to head tryout.

...and is is VERY coachable, working well with others.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

I don't remember which one, but I seem to recall a thread that discussed Diggins' experience with USA Basketball as being VERY limited, and she hasn't been playing overseas. If true, those two add up to her NOT being a strong candidate for 2018 and beyond.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on that.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't remember which one, but I seem to recall a thread that discussed Diggins' experience with USA Basketball as being VERY limited, and she hasn't been playing overseas. If true, those two add up to her NOT being a strong candidate for 2018 and beyond.
Someone correct me if I am wrong on that.

No correction required. Skylar has not played professionally over seas since leaving ND and last played USA basketball in 2011 World university games. However despite all that this article indicates she was one of the last 4 cuts from 2014 WC team. So I would disagree that she is not a strong candidate.
Skylar Diggins reflects on getting cut from World Championships team

 

[cbraarj]

I did not mention any stats. I talked about leading the team. Your pg should be the general and know not just her role but everybody elses in the game and Bird did that right away. With a loaded Huskies team in 99-00 in her Sophmore year.

 

[UcMiami]

No correction required. Skylar has not played professionally over seas since leaving ND and last played USA basketball in 2011 World university games. However despite all that this article indicates she was one of the last 4 cuts from 2014 WC team. So I would disagree that she is not a strong candidate.
Skylar Diggins reflects on getting cut from World Championships team

I think she is a strong candidate, but I think if she does not play overseas the gulf between her and Sims (who beat her out and did make the team) and other guards will widen as the years progress. It is not just the exposure to international rules and players, but the broadening of experiences playing for different coaches, in different styles, with different teammates, and against different defenses. She is learning for four months a year while the people she is competing against for roster spots are learning for ten months a year. I am sure she is working diligently on her own personal skills in the off-seasons, but that is not the same as developing the team skills that the others are doing.

 

[CocoHusky]

Wilson IMO is not unlike Griner was in college, depending on her athleticism (with BG, height) to get everything done, and with a coach who is OK with just being good. I see her getting to the next level and learning how to play her position. Parker and Charles are two players who can teach her a lot.

I disagree with the Wilson Griner (relying on athleticism) comparison for both players actually. Griner won National Defensive player of the year awards 3 times. Wilson is a rising Junior with 2 more years of college ball to play. From her Freshmen to Sophomore year Wilson has made great strides, which did not rely on her athleticism . For example Wilson became the SEC defensive POY. Playing defense requires great effort not just reliance on athleticism.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think she is a strong candidate, but I think if she does not play overseas the gulf between her and Sims (who beat her out and did make the team) and other guards will widen as the years progress. It is not just the exposure to international rules and players, but the broadening of experiences playing for different coaches, in different styles, with different teammates, and against different defenses. She is learning for four months a year while the people she is competing against for roster spots are learning for ten months a year. I am sure she is working diligently on her own personal skills in the off-seasons, but that is not the same as developing the team skills that the others are doing.

I agree with you in all respects Sims ahead of Skylar right now. International competition/ exposure will be a key for both. A few post above I have both making the team assuming no: Simone, DT, Whalen, or Sue.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think where the separation comes in is: A/TO 2.2 v 1.4 and shooting percentages: Sims .342/.305, Moriah .447/.451 - in other words, efficiency.

Some others:
Diggins: A/TO 1.4, .390/.283
Loyd: 1.2, .448/.313
Sloot: 2.9, .400/.333
January: 1.6, .377/.385

And Moriah is playing on easily the worst team which does not help her numbers.

I agree that 2.2 is very different from 1.4. And Moriah has poorer finishers than Odyssey.

Moriah ran the best offense of the last 5 years at the college level, played for a very demanding coach, and can tell Stewie what to do. I like her leadership. In the S.A. games, she is moving the Stars players around, having all of 20 pro games under her belt.

As noted in another post, I think Renee deserves another look. She's playing very good basketball as a backup to Lindsay this season.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I bet DT has another go in 2020. My best guess at this point:

C: Griner/Fowles...no real superstars on the horizon to displace these two. Brianna Turner could fit in here, but I think she'll be more of a 4 player in the pros. The best low post center in the collegiate game might be Alaina Coates, and she is not in the same league as Griner/Fowles.

F: Charles/Stewart/Wilson/Ogwumike....Charles/Stewart should be locks if they continue to improve over time, they have been USA basketball staples. Wilson is the next staple USA player. Ogwumike could be left off again. Parker could be brought back, but I'm guessing her exclusion this go around and how big of a deal was made about it by everyone will keep her off the radar.

Wing: EDD/Moore/K. Mitchell/Loyd...EDD and Moore appear to be safe bets. Loyd is a player who is on the outside looking in, but could definitely make a roster and has the talent to fill in for Augustus. Kelsey Mitchell is a stud and I think will be an impact player in the pros from day 1, she should get a serious look. Other contenders are the up and down Diggins and Sims, as well as McBride who is one of the better shooters/playmakers, but all 3 of these players are injury prone and failed to make this year's squad. With so much experience in the frontcourt, I'm guessing the Olympic committee will choose younger players over Diggins/Sims who will be in their late 20s. McCoughtry could return, but I think she will be left off the squad in favor of younger players.

G: Jefferson/Taurasi...Taurasi is a lock if she is still playing, even if she is a shell of herself. I'm guessing she'll still be a very good player 4 years from now and will likely be a starting 2 guard. Jefferson appears to be the best young point guard in the game. Diggins/Sims could fit in here. Sloot could too, but she's never struck me as an Olympic caliber player like everyone else mentioned here does.

Diana will not play in 2020. As great as she is today, she just can't withstand the travails of year-round pro ball. Let her retire gracefully. And Sue. And Tamika.

On another player, I think A'ja Wilson is a tremendous talent. Let's recall that Tina Charles couldn't shoot from more than five feet from the basket either when she was in college. But she improved. So will Wilson. She's not benefited from a great coach yet. But she is a tremendous physical specimen, and she will be a great pro player!

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Some interesting discussions here. I have enjoyed reading about the guard skills displayed by these good players and likely heirs to the national team. I've said before that Jefferson, Loyd, Diggins, and Sims are likely the future. McBride and Vandersloot are other candidates who aren't poor choices . Diggins hasn't played overseas and it is true that may hurt her, but she is supremely talented and while I get the lack of love from some UConn fans, she would be an asset to most teams. She may not be a perfect fit for the 18 or 20 rosters as there are other quality guards but she will be considered. Nneka should get consideration if she continues to play at this pace. Wilson is a dark horse but another very talented player Who is still maturing.

 

[UcMiami]

Listened to the LaChina Robinson podcast earlier and she and Teresa Edwards were on the USA could send 36 players and take Gold Silver and Bronze kick. I think it is possible, but it is sort of the mentality that USA men fall into that we are so clearly superior in talent that we just need to show up. Sometimes that works because you get lucky, and sometime you end up with egg on your face because you get beat when it matters. The reason that the women dominate is because they have the most talent and are the least selfish team, and that doesn't come naturally to any pro player, man or woman.
You don't break the assists and field goal percentage records by being selfish.
The issue I see for USA going forward is that they are losing the heart of that impetus - guards are the ones who drive that, and with few exceptions their aren't a lot of Sues and Dees and Lindseys - and the ones that are out there Sloot for example, are not as good and don't have that experience playing with 11 other superstars.

(I wrote a long post on this in another thread about what a fine line there is between 20 point wins and a tie game. So I will not repeat myself. But just a simple one - Sue had 31 assists and 4 TO's - put anyone of the young guards in the same situation and based on their life work, if they got 31 assists in a tournament it would come with 15-20 turnovers.

 

[JSB60]

Listened to the LaChina Robinson podcast earlier and she and Teresa Edwards were on the USA could send 36 players and take Gold Silver and Bronze kick. I think it is possible, but it is sort of the mentality that USA men fall into that we are so clearly superior in talent that we just need to show up. Sometimes that works because you get lucky, and sometime you end up with egg on your face because you get beat when it matters. The reason that the women dominate is because they have the most talent and are the least selfish team, and that doesn't come naturally to any pro player, man or woman.
You don't break the assists and field goal percentage records by being selfish.
The issue I see for USA going forward is that they are losing the heart of that impetus - guards are the ones who drive that, and with few exceptions their aren't a lot of Sues and Dees and Lindseys - and the ones that are out there Sloot for example, are not as good and don't have that experience playing with 11 other superstars.

(I wrote a long post on this in another thread about what a fine line there is between 20 point wins and a tie game. So I will not repeat myself. But just a simple one - Sue had 31 assists and 4 TO's - put anyone of the young guards in the same situation and based on their life work, if they got 31 assists in a tournament it would come with 15-20 turnovers.

Another advantage for Moriah going forward. She's probably the best player out there who was never the number one offensive option in college.

 

[CocoHusky]

Another advantage for Moriah going forward. She's probably the best player out there who was never the number one offensive option in college.

You typed this faster than I could formulate this same thought in my head-advantage Moriah!

 

[MilfordHusky]

Diana will not play in 2020. As great as she is today, she just can't withstand the travails of year-round pro ball. Let her retire gracefully. And Sue. And Tamika.

On another player, I think A'ja Wilson is a tremendous talent. Let's recall that Tina Charles couldn't shoot from more than five feet from the basket either when she was in college. But she improved. So will Wilson. She's not benefited from a great coach yet. But she is a tremendous physical specimen, and she will be a great pro player!

No one on the BY is forcing Sue or Diana out. It remains to be seen where their games are in 2-4 years. I like the idea of getting younger gradually and having Sue and/or Diana work with a young guard or two in 2018.

Tina had a reliable foul line jumper by her senior year. She now has 3-point range.

I agree that Wilson and Brianna Turner have potential. I'm not ready to say they belong in 2020 or that they don't belong. I think they should be under consideration.

The one no-brainer addition for me is Nneka. She played well in Turkey in 2014 and is having an MVP-type season. I think she is more of a 4 than a 3, but she may be able to cover both positions. She's a stellar rebounder and high-energy player. Her midrange jumper is solid too (not at the Seimone/Maya level, but good enough).

 

[UcMiami]

Another advantage for Moriah going forward. She's probably the best player out there who was never the number one offensive option in college.

You typed this faster than I could formulate this same thought in my head-advantage Moriah!

I was being subtle by allowing others to come to the same obvious conclusion!

 

[UcMiami]

The one no-brainer addition for me is Nneka. She played well in Turkey in 2014 and is having an MVP-type season. I think she is more of a 4 than a 3, but she may be able to cover both positions. She's a stellar rebounder and high-energy player. Her midrange jumper is solid too (not at the Seimone/Maya level, but good enough).

I haven't seen enough of her in the WNBA to have a sense of how good a defender she is away from the basket, which is the one area that Catching still shines at. Defense was a weakness for EDD in this Olympics I thought, she was game, but ... If Nneka can handle that then yes, I think she is the obvious front line choice.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Listened to the LaChina Robinson podcast earlier and she and Teresa Edwards were on the USA could send 36 players and take Gold Silver and Bronze kick.

I wouldn't quite go that far although I think the depth of talent for the Americans would allow for another twelve players to get selected and get either Silver or Bronze. I do agree with what you said about this team being unselfish. This team just kicked butt and took names when it mattered and appeared to have fun doing it. USA basketball is in great hands thanks to a tradition of excellence started in 1996 and has continued. Bird and Taurasi looked ten years younger than I expected and EDD, while not flawless, showed how much game she has. Maya was Maya, Stewie appears to have needed no adjustment period, and I thought Fowles and McCoughtry played well after I posted they shouldn't have been selected over Parker and another young guard. The future is bright for sure.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

IMO the USA 2018/2020 lineups could be:

G's: MoJeff/McBride/Sims/DT if healthy in 2018 & Danielle Robinson in 2020 (Sugar Rogers a possible)
W's & : Moore/EDD/Stewart/McCoughtry/Nneka (+big)
Big's: Charles/Griner/Dolson

Parker is done and Diggins is a mini Parker so she's done also!
Cheryl Reeve is most likely USA HC! Dawn could be HC but Committee goes with WNBA Coach!

 

[NewCorn]

Any team should start with the veterans that have been there/done that. Barring injury... from this years team I think this group would be the core players for 2020

25 Stewart
31 Moore
33 McCougtry
30 Delle Donne
29 Grinner
31 Charles
34 Fowles

Leaves 5 spots.. need guards. Sims, Diggins, Loyd, McBride, Jefferson?? Will Taurasi still be playing at 38? Vandersloot will have been in the USA Basketball system for forever... will be 31, does she finally get a senior team roster spot?

With lots of established veterans in the front court I think it will be hard for new comers (Wilson, Stevens, etc..) to make the team.

Thanks for mentioning Moriah Jefferson. I'm thinking she is a top candidate for PG, World Championships 2018, and Olympicsn 2020.

 

[NewCorn]

I think the big test for Parker may be to show up for the World Championship in 2018. If she does well there, she stands an excellent chance of making the Olympic team in 2020.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the big test for Parker may be to show up for the World Championship in 2018. If she does well there, she stands an excellent chance of making the Olympic team in 2020.

I agree - she has only played in the 2006 WC Bronze as a college player - then 2008 Olympic, missed 2010 WC back for Oly 2012, missed 2014 WC, cut from 2016 Oly. Id she wants back into the NT she has one chance, be available for the WC in 2018 in my mind.