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Lamb near decision...Drummond still unsure

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UCweCONN

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get it together man. A coach's success is measured in Championships and getting his players to the next level.

So basically what your saying is JC should not reach out to any NBA GM's and give his players any advice on their draft status leaving them to hire Agents and declare for the draft without having any idea where they may be drafted?

And how does a coach typically convince a playere to pass up millions of dollars? "Please don't fulfill your ultimate draeam in life to play in the NBA, our APR sure could use your good grades!"
Explain to me how exactly telling guys they're top 5 picks when they're not and rushing players to the NBA leads to championships? It does them a disservice. Look at the players we've sent to the NBA recently. How many are more than role players or are even in the league anymore?
 
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Explain to me how exactly telling guys they're top 5 picks when they're not and rushing players to the NBA leads to championships? It does them a disservice. Look at the players we've sent to the NBA recently. How many are more than role players or are even in the league anymore?



The problem lies with your inability to comprehend that NBA GM's are the ones telling Calhoun Lamb's draft status. This is NOT Calhoun guessing where he will go. Relaying the draft status of a player is not rushing a player into the NBA. You continue to act as if NBA GM's are not telling Calhoun where they think Lamb will be drafted, as if Calhoun is lying to his player. What benefit would that have for the program or the player?
 

HuskyHawk

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The problem lies with your inability to comprehend that NBA GM's are the ones telling Calhoun Lamb's draft status. This is NOT Calhoun guessing where he will go. Relaying the draft status of a player is not rushing a player into the NBA. You continue to act as if NBA GM's are not telling Calhoun where they think Lamb will be drafted, as if Calhoun is lying to his player. What benefit would that have for the program or the player?

It is Calhoun's job to do the best thing for his players. When they come here, they become his responsibility. He's doing the right thing by his players. His past projections for draft position based on conversations with GMs have always been pretty close.
 
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Honestly, that team should be title contenders. But i thought we should be title contenders this year, so who knows

The answer to that is if Drummond plays like a high lottery pick, instead of like a nice young man with the athletic potential to justify using a high lottery pick on him, this team can compete for a Big East title next year.

If Drummond shows solid improvement, and the staff figures out what he can and can't do and uses him properly, we can be substantially above .500 in league but short of contending to win it.

And if this year's Drummond shows up next year, and the coaches don't figure out how to run an offense around his lack of skills, we will struggle again.
 
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Explain to me how exactly telling guys they're top 5 picks when they're not and rushing players to the NBA leads to championships? It does them a disservice. Look at the players we've sent to the NBA recently. How many are more than role players or are even in the league anymore?

How can you not understand that he is basing this off of what he's heard from NBA people? NBA people are going to tell Jim Calhoun the truth when he talks to them, because he's given the NBA so many good players over the years.
 
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Sorry, unless I missed something isn't JC the head coach of the Huskies or is he now a sports agent? Getting guys drafted high is an agent's job, not the coach at a university's job. A coach's job should be to try to get kids to stay in school as long as possible to hopefully get their degrees or come close not to push them into the NBA. If you're correct, that this is what JC is doing, maybe this is how we got into the APR mess we're in? I say a little more focus on the education side and less on the NBA side is overdue.
You sound just as delusional as the NCAA regarding the players interests in academics.
 
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Sorry, unless I missed something isn't JC the head coach of the Huskies or is he now a sports agent? Getting guys drafted high is an agent's job, not the coach at a university's job. A coach's job should be to try to get kids to stay in school as long as possible to hopefully get their degrees or come close not to push them into the NBA. If you're correct, that this is what JC is doing, maybe this is how we got into the APR mess we're in? I say a little more focus on the education side and less on the NBA side is overdue.

First of all, guys leaving early for the NBA is not the reason our APR score was bad in 2010.

Secondly, you couldn't be more wrong about what Jim Calhoun's "job" is. A college degree is the gold at the end of the rainbow for shmucks like you and me because we (presumably) need it to get a job and we need a job to earn a living. A college degree is 100% useless to somebody like Andre Drummond and Jeremy Lamb, at least right now. They can make more money than you and I could spend in a lifetime without attending another class the rest of their lives.

I was an accounting major in college. I stayed in school for 4 years because no accounting firm was going to hire me until I had my degree, and I needed 4 years of schooling to earn said degree. If a firm wanted to hire me and pay me millions of dollars after 1 year of school, and they promised to teach me everything I needed to know about accounting on the job, and I could always go back and finish my degree whenever the hell I wanted, why on earth would I ever stay in school?
 
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Third, Drummond should go. He's pretty much the consensus 2/3 pick in the draft. He has ZERO opportunity to improve that next year. The kid is a freak athlete and he needs to be playing against more freak athletes to develop his skill. The kid would have gone straight to the NBA if he could have originally, I'm not sure what's holding him up.

If anyone thinks that Lamb/Drummond should come back, you're just selfish. Both of these kids are in a great position to get drafted and they gain almost nothing by staying at UConn. Regardless, both will be gone before they finish their degree anyway, so let 'em go. And I'll wish them the best of luck in the NBA.

Completely disagree. As Calhoun as stated in the past, hes trying to set up his players for that more lucrative second contract. If AD goes pro this year, he will likely be riding the bench, or putting up pedestrian numbers, if ever getting on the court. I agree with you that he is projected to go anywhere from 2-5 which guarantees you a three year contract around 4 million-2.8 mil average. If AD is for instance sent to the D-League, never truly develop his skills, and rarely sees minutes, he will not get that more lucrative second contract, if one at all (see Thabeet). However, if he were to return to UConn for a year, completly commit to his development, and the coaches spent a year with him redefining his post skills and motor, he will be much more suited for the NBA and in better position for that second big time contract. Drummond will be a top 5 pick whenever he declares, it's up to him if he'd rather be ready to play in the NBA when selected.
 
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Explain to me how exactly telling guys they're top 5 picks when they're not and rushing players to the NBA leads to championships? It does them a disservice. Look at the players we've sent to the NBA recently. How many are more than role players or are even in the league anymore?

?? UConn has done really well sending players to the NBA, and the players themselves have done well in the NBA. I'm trying to figure out what your complaint is. By any measure, UConn is one of the top few schools producing successful pros.
 

Dogbreath2U

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Davis is a project on offense -- not on defense. And his offense is light year's ahead of Drummonds in terms of dribbling, passing, screening and understanding of what is going on around him. He has no more in the way of low post moves than Drummond, but is still a much more complete offensive player.

I have only see Davis play a few times, but he looks light years ahead of Andre at this time on both sides of the court. He has a nice looking jumpshot and he made a very nice jumphook from the side of the lane when contested (that was almost a skyhook). Again, maybe I saw him at his best, but he looked like the best big man to come out of college in a long time. Maybe a little Tim Duncan-like.
 
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Someone had a great comment on college vs. NBA. It doesn't matter whether college 'ABC' has 4 NBA players, because the NBA team has 13.
And out of the 13 players, how many should have stayed in college?

The NBA should have made the players stay 2 years before declaring in their previous CBA. In regards to all that horrible basketball that you see on the college level? Guess what? It'll be in the NBA too and they'll be sitting on the NBA bench as "NBA players" when they really should have stayed.

I'm not saying JL should stay but as JC has said before, it's not about the initial contract, but the second contract where you'll make the most money.
 
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I have always said the palyers are much better but the game as a game isn't. that's an opinion. Just like some others think the higher skill levels make the NBA superior. Depends on what you like to watch I guess. Not that much different than the same debate about college football vs. pro football. No question the giants would blow Alabama out of the stadium, probably owudl win by 30 if they used 10 players...but in my mind the college game is way more fun to watch because you see different styles, while the pro game is just so predictable. Same with the NBA. Great players, great athleticism, but it makes for a boring game...
I agree completely with this - you said it better than me.
 

caw

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I have always said the palyers are much better but the game as a game isn't. that's an opinion. Just like some others think the higher skill levels make the NBA superior. Depends on what you like to watch I guess. Not that much different than the same debate about college football vs. pro football. No question the giants would blow Alabama out of the stadium, probably owudl win by 30 if they used 10 players...but in my mind the college game is way more fun to watch because you see different styles, while the pro game is just so predictable. Same with the NBA. Great players, great athleticism, but it makes for a boring game...

Yes. The NBA may be boring, but it is by no means "bad"
 
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The problem lies with your inability to comprehend that NBA GM's are the ones telling Calhoun Lamb's draft status. This is NOT Calhoun guessing where he will go. Relaying the draft status of a player is not rushing a player into the NBA. You continue to act as if NBA GM's are not telling Calhoun where they think Lamb will be drafted, as if Calhoun is lying to his player. What benefit would that have for the program or the player?

What benefit does the NBA GM have in telling the truth about where a player is going to be drafted? Why not? I can see a situation where they flood the market with marginal players (not that JL is) and hope that the team drafting ahead of you makes a mistake (or their needs) which allows you to draft the player you want.
 

Rico444

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What benefit does the NBA GM have in telling the truth about where a player is going to be drafted? Why not? I can see a situation where they flood the market with marginal players (not that JL is) and hope that the team drafting ahead of you makes a mistake (or their needs) which allows you to draft the player you want.

I'd imagine Jim Calhoun has been talking to NBA GMs and execs for 20 years or so. I think he knows which ones to trust.
 
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I think the NBA scouts are confusing Jeremy Lamb with Doron Lamb.

I like Doron Lamb quite a bit, but 6'3" SGs w/o great athleticism or great length aren't going in the top 10. Also, not to diminish his skills and how impressive he played, but he also benefited from having 4 other players on the court with him that had to be guarded and he played on a team that knew how to run an offense, Jeremy wasn't afforded that luxury.
 
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It is Calhoun's job to do the best thing for his players. When they come here, they become his responsibility. He's doing the right thing by his players. His past projections for draft position based on conversations with GMs have always been pretty close.
That isn't exactly true. Calhoun is hired by the University of connecticut and its actually his job to do what is best for his employer.asically to win basketball games within the rules. This isn't Miracle on 34th Street where the Macys Santa Kris Kringle tells the mother that she can get the toy truck cheaper at Gimbles. But one could argue that by properly advising his players it makes it easier to recruit other good players and hence he is doing what is best for the University in the long run, while in the short run it may not be in his employer's best interest. It isn't in the best interest of the Hartford for its head of sales to tell a client he can get better coverage from Travellers. Though it might be worth it to build a relationship for future deals.
 
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Yes. The NBA may be boring, but it is by no means "bad"
I guess it depends on how you define bad. I've conceded from the beginning that the players are better, but simply having better players doesn't translate into a better game, or maybe a more entertaining game is a better way of putting it. I find the NBA passionless for the most part except late in the playoffs, and not particularly entertaining. And more or less predictable. In a word, boring. Others disagree, which is fine but overall it is a matter of personal preference. Doesn't mean one side is right and one wrong. Only that we have different ways of looking at it.
 
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That isn't exactly true. Calhoun is hired by the University of connecticut and its actually his job to do what is best for his employer.asically to win basketball games within the rules. This isn't Miracle on 34th Street where the Macys Santa Kris Kringle tells the mother that she can get the toy truck cheaper at Gimbles. But one could argue that by properly advising his players it makes it easier to recruit other good players and hence he is doing what is best for the University in the long run, while in the short run it may not be in his employer's best interest. It isn't in the best interest of the Hartford for its head of sales to tell a client he can get better coverage from Travellers. Though it might be worth it to build a relationship for future deals.

It's not exactly false either. A professor hired by a state university certainly has a more realistic expectation that he is hired to serve the public good, and the interests of his students, than an insurance salesman hired by a private company has.
 
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Wow, a lot is going on in this thread. Here's my 2 cents:

Anyone who thinks that UK or any college team that finishes on top can beat the worst NBA team in a given year likely doesn't watched many NBA games. I'm always amazed at how well and how easy most NBA players are at knocking down open and moderately contested shots. In the college game there are few players you can count on knocking down those same shots at anywhere close to the same clip.

In fact, I sometimes find the NBA game boring when they're not in post-season mode where they actually defend for long stretches of the game, where each team goes down and hits shot after shot from all over the floor.

In the college game, you just hope your team can make shots on a few consecutive trips down the floor during a few stretches of a given game. All in all, the shooting and finishing skills at the NBA level is leaps and bounds higher than what you see in the college game. Now there are a handful of players on some of the rosters who aren't good shooters, but those are the ones who are either rebounding/defensive specialists or ones that excel at certain skills on the offensive end such as driving and/or dishing (Rondo) or dunking. Enough with this one.

As for where Lamb might get drafted, I think his stock took a hit this season and it might take an even bigger hit once he begins to work out for teams. Someone listed 7 players they thought that would get drafted over JL and wasn't sure if he'd find more if he kept on digging. Lamb's skill set and deficiencies IMO are really tough to gauge as far as how those will play out at the next level. Here's some bullets on this:

The Good:

Shot-making - There's little doubt that when given enough room, Lamb is one of the best shot-makers in college. He finishes around the basket and from mid-range at a high level. He has NBA range on his 3-ball. He has the best floater I've seen since the Ice Man, George Gervin.

Long Reach and Great Hands - Not talked about often, which is common for guards, few guards have better hands than Lamb. He's very good with receiving the ball and is a very good rebounder for guard due to his long reach and big hands. Rarely did you see him bobble a defensive rebound. It was like watching Spiderman snatch some really tough in-traffic rebounds this past season.

Ball Handling - For a long armed player, he handles the ball very well, especially in the open floor.

The Not So Good:

Lacks a quick first step and overall strength - This impacts his game, and not in a good way, especially at the next level. Lamb really struggled to drive by good to average defenders when given the ball at the top of the key w/out any momentum. Part of this was due to a lack of a first step burst and a lack of strength, but maybe also due to a lack of confidence in this part of his game. IMO, it's this part of his game that may have caused his stock to drop. Now maybe if he works hard on his foot work and in the weight room he can make up for this deficiency. Many NBA players who aren't super quick have learned to be able to get the corner on their defender using their strength and ball handling. Once such a player can get that half step on the defender the strong ones can ward off the defender and either draw the foul or get around them. I'm on the fence if JL can improve enough in this area or has enough other attributes to overcome it to become a Lottery worthy pick. Add 20 pounds of muscle, work hard on drills to improve that first step and gain better instincts how to go early with his drive or do something that gets his defender leaning the wrong way, and maybe he can overcome this issue so that he can dominate using his other skills listed above.

Not a good defender - This is directly related to the above. Stronger and Quicker NBA guards are going to get a step on him and blow right by him. He's not nearly quick or strong enough to defend the 1, 2 or 3...hum...any position to that matter at the next level. This has been a problem for Rip & Ben their entire careers. Neither are strong enough and for whatever reason both have horrible defensive instincts. Hooper and I have discussed this and scratched our heads for years about this one. It always amazes us how a player who seems plenty quick to create their own shot can be so bad at keeping their man in front of them. On the ball defending and staying with a player through screens is a factor of quickness, strength, reaction time and instincts. I'm convinced that a great deal of it is with the latter two since I've seen quick players who s*ck at D and not-so-quick ones surprisingly hold their own. If Lamb can learn to improve a little bit in those 3 areas plus use those long arms, he could develop into a solid enough defender and not be a liability. But that's a a lot of ifs. Few bad defenders coming into the NBA develop in this area, but some do. The ones that do, worked the asses off to get there. I'm just not sure if Lamb has that type of work ethic. Taking extra time to work on your shot is one thing. Taking extra time to work in the weight room and on your foot work and drills that lend themselves to the defensive end of the floor, is another thing.

Not a 4th quarter guy - I must admit, I was surprised that like Rudy, Lamb did a nice job on his late game disappearing act. Now a big part of this is likely due to teams making sure that he did not beat them late in games. As a #3 or 4 option early on in his NBA career, he might actually find more space to score than he did at UConn this past season. We all know what he can do when he has the space to get off his shot. But we are talking about a potential Lottery Pick where by his 3rd season you'd hope he will develop into a 1st or 2nd option on offense where he's going to find the opponents top defenders standing between him and the basket. Will he be the type of scorer that warrants a lottery pick or are there others in this draft that have a higher likelihood of being more productive long term players.

I wonder if JL is sort of a 2/3 tweener. We're use to seeing the 3/4 tweeners like Donyell, Sticks and Roscoe. Ones that aren't strong enough to play the 4 or quick enough to play the 3. In Lambs case, he's not big enough to play the 3 in the NBA and I'm not sure he's quick enough to play the 2. As I pointed out above, maybe he has enough in him to close the gap on his deficiencies so that he can excel in the areas where he's special.

The Conclusion:

So this brings me to my concluding remarks. The real question at hand is not necessarily how high he might get drafted but is will his stock be higher after one more season? Let's assume his draft position either dropped from what it would have been last season or at most improved slightly, if he has another season where he shows moderate to little improvement, NBA GMs are likely going to believe that he has a low upside and that some of these deficiencies are going to limit him at the next level. On the other hand, if he can work on his deficiencies and show that he can score off the dribble and defend better, his stock could soar high up the lottery ladder. I can never remember how many lottery picks there are, nor have I looked at any of the mock drafts lately, but I'm inclined to think based on the players he's competing with, he's going to get picked in that 12 to 16 range. Sometimes team needs and style of play will play a factor in this. I wish we had seen a lot more screen-catch-and-shoot from him this season, ala Rip Hamilton. He's much better when he gets the ball with a little space and while moving. There are teams that have offenses that lend itself to players with this skill set, but for whatever reason we saw little of this for JL.

I'm inclined to think that it would be best for him to enter the draft and be satisfied wherever he lands. I think he runs the risk of falling even further if he returns, plus the money he leaves at the table that he would be making this upcoming season. Unless he believes he can really improve his game, I think he'd be taking a huge chance by returning to UConn. I hope he does, but I doubt it. If he were able to improve in those areas he could have a monster year and be a lot of fun to watch. A 10 to 15 pound stronger Lamb at the college level would be fun to watch.
 
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It's not exactly false either. A professor hired by a state university certainly has a more realistic expectation that he is hired to serve the public good, and the interests of his students, than an insurance salesman hired by a private company has.
To an extent that's true, but his first and foremost responsibility is to win basketball games without violating the myirad of NCAA rules that apply ot the program. If he does that, and Calhoun certainly has, then it matters not a bit whether he is Mother Teresa or a Mother F*&$ker to his players, quite honestly. Really his sole responsiblity to them is to coach them at basketball to the best of his ability and to mkae sure they take the steps to remain eligible to play basketball. Now in the real world, things aren't that easily seperated and it is more of question of degrees than a bright line between serving his players and serving the University...but I still think that his first responsibility is to the University.
 
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Um, they play 8 more minutes of a game?! That has a huge role in it. Also, they have a 24 second shot clock vs. a 35 second shot clock. Plus, the best offensive talent in the world...

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Jeremy Lamb is a lottery pick. Forget whatever about his defense, no one cares. Lamb has the ability to consistently drop 20 points every night in the NBA. He's got a mid-range floater that will make him millions. In addition, he won't have to make his own shot in the NBA. Surely, he'll work on that...but he's going to be with elite point guards that will give him the ball at the right time.

He is not going to improve anything coming back here. I don't know why UConn fans are delusional that another year will benefit him. His money-maker is his shot. He's already got that. He's always had that. End of story. Unless you're a defensive whiz, nobody in the NCAA will translate directly into NBA defense. Think about it...when's the last time someone was drafted for defense (and actually became a star/succeeded well in the NBA) Then compare that to how many pure shooters turned into stars in the NBA. HUGE discrepancy.

Third, Drummond should go. He's pretty much the consensus 2/3 pick in the draft. He has ZERO opportunity to improve that next year. The kid is a freak athlete and he needs to be playing against more freak athletes to develop his skill. The kid would have gone straight to the NBA if he could have originally, I'm not sure what's holding him up.

If anyone thinks that Lamb/Drummond should come back, you're just selfish. Both of these kids are in a great position to get drafted and they gain almost nothing by staying at UConn. Regardless, both will be gone before they finish their degree anyway, so let 'em go. And I'll wish them the best of luck in the NBA.

I disagree on Drummond. Nine times out of ten a kid projected to go in the top ten would be foolish to come back, but Drummond is a bit of a different case. You're talking about a basketball player with more physical gifts than anybody in the NBA besides maybe a select few. He's close to seven feet tall, he has the body to put on a lot of muscle, his baseline to baseline speed is insane for somebody his size, and he can jump out of the gym. But this isn't just a kid who needs to "work on his skills", he needs to learn how to play the game. The NBA isn't going to teach you how to play the game, even if you're as talented as Drummond. In the NBA you're thrown into the fire, and I fear Drummond will be abused by more savy, skilled players who are nearly as athletic. Heck, he had trouble keeping up against the more veteran college players this year.

I could be wrong, and I don't think anybody would blame him for cashing in on his talents and joining the NBA. I just fear he would be feeding himselves to the wolves if he left at this moment, raw as he is. The NBA will certainly work with him, and his skills will improve, I just feel he can mature more as a competitor and as a basketball player by returning to school.

Lamb on the other hand, has little to gain by returning for his junior year. What he lacks (explosion off the dribble, latteral quickness, strength) is unlikely to improve much through another year of college. If you think about it Drummond and Lamb are almost in exact opposite situations. Lamb has physical gifts, but not nearly as many as Drummond. He was just a kid born to play basketball. Drummond is sitting on a winning lottery ticket and I think Calhoun is the best guy to get everything out of him.
 
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