Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Drew]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

First off- I disagree with this. The overwhelming majority of college sports fans are fans of like 25 schools. If those schools are playing games (or if their rivals or other similar teams are playing), they’re tuning in

Second, the article at hand didn’t necessarily say they’d stop playing the other teams not in the A5 (soon to be A4), it just seems to me like they want to reconfigure the NCAA Tournament to be like the CFP. What does that wind up meaning? Probably like 10 auto bids for conference champions and the rest are at larges with like 90% of the money generated going to the A4 automatically and 10% split between non-A4 leagues with the split being determined by how far you get in the tournament. That’s probably what will happen.

 

[Rdkid]

First off- I disagree with this. The overwhelming majority of college sports fans are fans of like 25 schools. If those schools are playing games (or if their rivals or other similar teams are playing), they’re tuning in

Second, the article at hand didn’t necessarily say they’d stop playing the other teams not in the A5 (soon to be A4), it just seems to me like they want to reconfigure the NCAA Tournament to be like the CFP. What does that wind up meaning? Probably like 10 auto bids for conference champions and the rest are at larges with like 90% of the money generated going to the A4 automatically and 10% split between non-A4 leagues with the split being determined by how far you get in the tournament. That’s probably what will happen.

The great football schools and conferences are great because they and their fanbases live and breathe the sport. You can’t just slap a school name on the front of a basketball jersey and expect their fans to care the same - especially as they are asked to give more and more money to the football program. A bunch of P5 schools have zero basketball fanbase or tradition and never will (what the most negative folks say about UConn fb) That will not sustain a viable 30 game season or what the public has proven they love - a 64-team one and done tourney. That means less money. Basketball is different. The great split will lead to hard football choices and the sport will likely split into a professional class. Professional college bb with a P4 split has no legs.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I'm thinking the Big East would be part of any breakaway if it included basketball. Villanova and UConn have won 30% of the National Championships in the past 25 years.

They’re not breaking away to drag DePaul and butler with them.

 

[ZooCougar]

This may not be key. But it should be.

https://x.com/uconnsn/status/1727063064443588763?s=46

 

[ZooCougar]

You asked "where would the money come from" to pay Connecticut to join a basketball autonomy group. Once it I explained that March Madness is the cash cow that runs the entire NCAA generating roughly $1,000,000,000 a year, you moved on to a different question. And if it was answered, you would move onto a different one. That's your modus operandi here. It's basically what a toddler does. It's fine. You be you.

#movingthegoalposts

You have shown where the money comes from if we live in alternate fantasy world.

Are you Robert Jordan?

 

[noeynox]

Amazing that people are somehow still confusing “league with some good basketball teams” with “leagues with written legislative power in NCAA bylaws that make all the money”. If you can’t see the difference (it has NOTHING to do with on field competition results), I don’t know what to tell you other than sorry for your future shock at what happens.

Those same people wanted UConn to CHOOSE the Big East over the Big 12 IF there was a choice to make. Therefore, those people like to pretend the Big East is something it is not. Despite their success, they're not an autonomy 5 conference. They're as powerless any other G5 league.

 

[noeynox]

I don’t think anyone is ignoring this. It’s been a realistic scenario for a decade now which is why I was pro-Big 12. The only point I am making (and this is solely for Basketball) is a Basketball tournament without the Big East is fraudulent. Can it happen?, sure it can. But I don’t think the public will tune in to March Madness of P4/5 whatever the heck it is.

No one cares about the Big East schools not named UConn/Nova. Marquette and Creighton may be good now but those team successes tend to be cyclical or related to the head coach like Wichita State a few years back. No one is going to call the entire tournament "fraudulent" cause UConn and Nova got shafted. It will simply be seen as a consequence of change.

 

[ZooCougar]

No one cares about the Big East schools not named UConn/Nova. Marquette and Creighton may be good now but those team successes tend to be cyclical or related to the head coach like Wichita State a few years back. No one is going to call the entire tournament "fraudulent" cause UConn and Nova got shafted. It will simply be seen as a consequence of change.

Those fanbases are not small and insubstantial but it doesn’t matter. The A4 will do it if that is what they want.

The only people that will cry foul are said fanbases and a few deep inside college basketball media types, but everyone else will just shrug.

This is why it was so important to follow through with what Lew Perkins envisioned. The reckoning is coming and I give the Big East maybe a 50/50 shot.

 

[Drew]

Those fanbases are not small and insubstantial but it doesn’t matter. The A4 will do it if that is what they want.

The only people that will cry foul are said fanbases and a few deep inside college basketball media types, but everyone else will just shrug.

This is why it was so important to follow through with what Lew Perkins envisioned. The reckoning is coming and I give the Big East maybe a 50/50 shot.

The fanbases are absolutely small and inconsequential compared to the teams that matter. Marquette probably has 1/10th (at best) of the fanbase of Wisconsin. Hell, most Marquette fans probably also cheer for Wisconsin football.

I’m a Nebraska fan by birth and still am- there’s a reason “Jayskers” exist. Maybe you went to Creighton or live in Omaha and like going to games but almost all of those people are also fans of NU. True Creighton only fans compared to NU is probably 1/25th the size of the fanbase.

I do agree with your second point- If these small privates went off the face of the Earth absolutely nobody would bat an eye. The public and general sports media has already held a funeral for and buried the Big East - hell ESPN made a damn documentary about it.

Nobody is saying there aren’t a few good basketball teams in the league. But to pretend like the tournament is somehow illegitimate if Providence and Xavier don’t have a chance to win it all is just silly and blind to all reality of who actually matters in college sports

 

[CL82]

You have shown where the money comes from if we live in alternate fantasy world.

Are you Robert Jordan?

Lol, no, I just responded to your question seriously, as if you actually wanted an answer. A mistake increasingly fewer of us are making.

To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to wonder whether you've had some kind of medical event or something, because it seems like you're involved in one after another of these odd series of posts, where you jump from non sequitur, to red herring, to strawman arguments in a weird meandering manner. It's very similar to people who have age related dementia. I'm not saying that you do, of course, I'm just noting the similarity.

My best guess is that for whatever reason you've decided that you want to be a troll on The Boneyard. I feel as if Nelson kind of has that niche locked down, but again, you be you. It's all good.

 

[Drew]

The great football schools and conferences are great because they and their fanbases live and breathe the sport. You can’t just slap a school name on the front of a basketball jersey and expect their fans to care the same - especially as they are asked to give more and more money to the football program. A bunch of P5 schools have zero basketball fanbase or tradition and never will (what the most negative folks say about UConn fb) That will not sustain a viable 30 game season or what the public has proven they love - a 64-team one and done tourney. That means less money. Basketball is different. The great split will lead to hard football choices and the sport will likely split into a professional class. Professional college bb with a P4 split has no legs.

What’s funny about this is if you go look at Big Ten and SEC hoops TV ratings to the Big East, those leagues blow the BE out of the water.

Thats the entire point. Those teams have such large fanbases that even if 5% of them care about hoops it means more than if 80% of Marquette fans do.

You can’t hold a basketball tournament without Kansas or Kentucky. You can absolutely do it without Providence and Butler. Hell, we already do it almost every year as is.

 

[CL82]

What’s funny about this is if you go look at Big Ten and SEC hoops TV ratings to the Big East, those leagues blow the BE out of the water.

Thats the entire point. Those teams have such large fanbases that even if 5% of them care about hoops it means more than if 80% of Marquette fans do.

You can’t hold a basketball tournament without Kansas or Kentucky. You can absolutely do it without Providence and Butler. Hell, we already do it almost every year as is.

In order to do an apples to apples comparison I think you have to equalize the networks at the games are played on. Clearly, games on FS1, and especially FS2, are going to have lower ratings than games on ESPN, which intern will have lower ratings than games on the broadcast networks. In order to evaluate a teams ability to draw eyeballs you have to adjust for the different media contracts.

 

[ZooCougar]

The fanbases are absolutely small and inconsequential compared to the teams that matter. Marquette probably has 1/10th (at best) of the fanbase of Wisconsin. Hell, most Marquette fans probably also cheer for Wisconsin football.

I’m a Nebraska fan by birth and still am- there’s a reason “Jayskers” exist. Maybe you went to Creighton or live in Omaha and like going to games but almost all of those people are also fans of NU. True Creighton only fans compared to NU is probably 1/25th the size of the fanbase.

I do agree with your second point- If these small privates went off the face of the Earth absolutely nobody would bat an eye. The public and general sports media has already held a funeral for and buried the Big East - hell ESPN made a damn documentary about it.

Nobody is saying there aren’t a few good basketball teams in the league. But to pretend like the tournament is somehow illegitimate if Providence and Xavier don’t have a chance to win it all is just silly and blind to all reality of who actually matters in college sports

I live in the KC Area now but also notoriously lived in Wisconsin. Marquette for sure is smaller than Wisconsin. But it's definitely a thing and it's not insubstantial. But whatever it is, it's irrelevant.

I am familiar with Creighton. My impression is that it is douchier than BC, but in Omaha.

I am in violent agreement with you that the Big East will get mercilessly tossed aside if that's what they want to do.

 

[ZooCougar]

Lol, no, I just responded to your question seriously, as if you actually wanted an answer. A mistake increasingly fewer of us are making.

To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to wonder whether you've had some kind of medical event or something, because it seems like you're involved in one after another of these odd series of posts, where you jump from non sequitur, to red herring, to strawman arguments in a weird meandering manner. It's very similar to people who have age related dementia. I'm not saying that you do, of course, I'm just noting the similarity.

My best guess is that for whatever reason you've decided that you want to be a troll on The Boneyard. I feel as if Nelson kind of has that niche locked down, but again, you be you. It's all good.

No. I just decided to make you my special project.

The premise of argument is baseless. Call it a strawman or whatever. I don't care, whatever makes you feel better.

 

[ZooCougar]

In order to do an apples to apples comparison I think you have to equalize the networks at the games are played on. Clearly, games on FS1, and especially FS2, are going to have lower ratings than games on ESPN, which intern will have lower ratings than games on the broadcast networks. In order to evaluate a teams ability to draw eyeballs you have to adjust for the different media contracts.

If the best your conference can do is FS1 and FS2 then that should tell you something.

 

[Drew]

In order to do an apples to apples comparison I think you have to equalize the networks at the games are played on. Clearly, games on FS1, and especially FS2, are going to have lower ratings than games on ESPN, which intern will have lower ratings than games on the broadcast networks. In order to evaluate a teams ability to draw eyeballs you have to adjust for the different media contracts.

Here’s your Big East tv data to flip through by network- I’ll use 2022 FS1 as an example: 2022 Big East TV Ratings

BE: 32 games averaging 286k viewers

Here’s your comp to the Big Ten by network: What are Big East TV Rights worth?

Going back to our TV numbers, the B10 drew in 79.9 million viewers for 100 non-Big Ten Channel games last season, averaging 807K per game. If you just take conference games to nullify external opponent impacts and focus on just the FS1 numbers that average was 526K (and 1.2M on big FOX).

Adding the Big East conference ratings back in, the rated games drew in about 49% of Big Ten averages on FS1, and about 59% on big FOX. A reasonable inference here would be that Big East rights are about half as valuable as Big Ten basketball rights.

 

[CL82]

Here’s your Big East tv data to flip through by network- I’ll use 2022 FS1 as an example: 2022 Big East TV Ratings

BE: 32 games averaging 286k viewers

Here’s your comp to the Big Ten by network: What are Big East TV Rights worth?

View attachment 93320

Going back to our TV numbers, the B10 drew in 79.9 million viewers for 100 non-Big Ten Channel games last season, averaging 807K per game. If you just take conference games to nullify external opponent impacts and focus on just the FS1 numbers that average was 526K (and 1.2M on big FOX).

Adding the Big East conference ratings back in, the rated games drew in about 49% of Big Ten averages on FS1, and about 59% on big FOX. A reasonable inference here would be that Big East rights are about half as valuable as Big Ten basketball rights.

I have seen this article. I like this chart which illustrates the point I was making:

I don't love the comparison to MLS but, interestingly enough, it works out almost identically to the equalized comparison of the Big Ten basketball rights.

The author concludes that the big east rights are worth roughly double what they are now, which would be equivalent to $8M - 9M per school. That number gets thrown around a lot, but I think this article may have been the genesis of it.

It is in someways ironic that $8M - 9M per school is both an excellent result for the Big East and yet is completely insufficient.

 

[ZooCougar]

I have seen this article. I like this chart which illustrates the point I was making:
View attachment 93321
I don't love the comparison to MLS but, interestingly enough, it works out almost identically to the equalized comparison of the Big Ten basketball rights.

The author concludes that the big east rights are worth roughly double what they are now, which would be equivalent to $8M - 9M per school. That number gets thrown around a lot, but I think this article may have been the genesis of it.

It is in someways ironic that $8M - 9M per school is both an excellent result for the Big East and yet is completely insufficient.

What the author of that blog fails to account for in comparing MLS to the Big East is that the MLS Media Deal then included the USMNT and USWNT matches. This actually inflated or hid MLS's true value because those actually have mainstream appeal.

It's not a good comparison.

 

[Ha Who]

You would be wrong. No incentive for the Big East to be taken along.

Why does the big 12, acc, big ten need big east teams in any tournament?

Census profile: Northeast Region

Census data for Northeast Region (pop. 56,983,516), including age, race, sex, income, poverty, marital status, education and more.

censusreporter.org

 

[Drew]

Census profile: Northeast Region

Census data for Northeast Region (pop. 56,983,516), including age, race, sex, income, poverty, marital status, education and more.

censusreporter.org

This would be a great point if all of the Big East teams were large public schools located in the northeast and the Big Ten and ACC didn’t have any alumni living there but, alas, that is not the case

 

[CL82]

No. I just decided to make you my special project.

The premise of argument is baseless. Call it a strawman or whatever. I don't care, whatever makes you feel better.

Lol, really? Because I thought you were just embarrassed that you were so stunningly wrong on the value of basketball rights that now you're flailing around trying to find an argument that makes you feel better about yourself. It's OK, it's not particularly unexpected.

 

[Ha Who]

This would be a great point if all of the Big East teams were large public schools located in the northeast and the Big Ten and ACC didn’t have any alumni living there but, alas, that is not the case

Gentrification?

 

[Platt81]

So is Marquette beating Kansas. No one cares. I only watch UConn mens BB, so i was totally unaware of Marquette beating Kansas.

This is a weird take. They are both opponents of UConn this season. First off, plenty care, and secondly why wouldn’t you be interested in how future opponents are playing?

 

[ZooCougar]

This would be a great point if all of the Big East teams were large public schools located in the northeast and the Big Ten and ACC didn’t have any alumni living there but, alas, that is not the case

And College sports in the northeast just aren’t as important culturally as they are in the other regions of the country.

 

[ZooCougar]

Lol, really? Because I thought you were just embarrassed that you were so stunningly wrong on the value of basketball rights that now you're flailing around trying to find an argument that makes you feel better about yourself. It's OK, it's not particularly unexpected.

Well. Nobody here seems to even agree with you and we barely rake in $4M in TV with the Bug East sooooo….