Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 312 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

goldendomer said:
Just cut a big check.. most estimates are between 125-200 million.
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That would pay the exit fee....The ACC then could litigate the contract that was ancillary to the GOR in which the Irish contracted to join the ACC for football iof they joined a conference for such.

Re Notre Dame football...forget the GOR...one has to wonder how much the ACC would claim as damages for the Irish's breach of their contract that states that, if they join a conference, it would be the ACC ?

1...the damage might be the difference in media funding that the ACC might have received with Notre Dame as a full member for the next ten years. With media experts and ESPN subpoenaed.

2...I would love to see the Irish brass after David (using WVU lingo).

And...the ACC would still own all rights to non football sports.
 
Here's some reporting from SI:
... "But leaving the ACC could be costly owing to the league's grant of rights agreement. Any school that leaves before 2036 would have to give its media revenue to the ACC through that year, or else pay a major exit fee rumored to be around $100 million.

But reports also indicate that Notre Dame could avoid some of that bill, which could be lower given that the school's football program wouldn't be part of that deal.

Any fee that ND would have to pay, the school would likely make back in a year or two of being in the Big Ten."

@goldendomer : is that your understanding? If so, I don't think the GOR would hold them back from leaving the ACC.
 
billybud said:
That would pay the exit fee....The ACC then could litigate the contract that was ancillary to the GOR in which the Irish contracted to join the ACC for football iof they joined a conference for such.

Re Notre Dame football...forget the GOR...one has to wonder how much the ACC would claim as damages for the Irish's breach of their contract that states that, if they join a conference, it would be the ACC ?

1...the damage might be the difference in media funding that the ACC might have received with Notre Dame as a full member for the next ten years. With media experts and ESPN subpoenaed.

2...I would love to see the Irish brass after David (using WVU lingo).

And...the ACC would still own all rights to non football sports.
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Be careful what you wish for dragging ESPN & ACC into depositions.

Do either want any of their past brought to light? Especially how ESPN dismantled the Big East or what happened when DeFilipo ran his mouth about how they did what they were told to by ESPN?

Litigating a Notre Dame exit may not be in ESPN or ACC best interest.
 
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bobbyinaz said:
Be careful what you wish for dragging ESPN & ACC into depositions.

Do either want any of their past brought to light? Especially how ESPN dismantled the Big East or what happened when DeFilipo ran his mouth about how they did what they were told to by ESPN?

Litigating a Notre Dame exit may not be in ESPN or ACC best interest.
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Agreed - these things never get to the depo stage; they reach a settlement. The media cartels' lawyers and the NCAA's anti-trust related status are huge barriers to this ever happening.
 
I think that a couple of ACC programs are set and ready...if the Irish set the precedence from walking from a contractual committment...
 
billybud said:
That would pay the exit fee....The ACC then could litigate the contract that was ancillary to the GOR in which the Irish contracted to join the ACC for football iof they joined a conference for such.

Re Notre Dame football...forget the GOR...one has to wonder how much the ACC would claim as damages for the Irish's breach of their contract that states that, if they join a conference, it would be the ACC ?

1...the damage might be the difference in media funding that the ACC might have received with Notre Dame as a full member for the next ten years. With media experts and ESPN subpoenaed.

2...I would love to see the Irish brass after David (using WVU lingo).

And...the ACC would still own all rights to non football sports.
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I can't claim that I know this is the case as I never saw any of the contracts but almost immediately after the USC-UCLA news broke a few credible journalists wrote that ND's agreement with the ACC on joining football ends the second ND is officially withdrawn from that conference in all other sports.

The exit fee (IIRC) is somewhere around $55 million. The one variable (which will be considerably smaller for ND as they aren't a football member) is a negotiated buyout of the GOR. That by itself could be anywhere from just shy of nine figures to a bit north of it. It also would likely set the market for where a full member's buyout would be (175%-225% of ND's perhaps?).
 
CTFAN4LIFE said:
Here's some reporting from SI:
... "But leaving the ACC could be costly owing to the league's grant of rights agreement. Any school that leaves before 2036 would have to give its media revenue to the ACC through that year, or else pay a major exit fee rumored to be around $100 million.

But reports also indicate that Notre Dame could avoid some of that bill, which could be lower given that the school's football program wouldn't be part of that deal.

Any fee that ND would have to pay, the school would likely make back in a year or two of being in the Big Ten."

@goldendomer : is that your understanding? If so, I don't think the GOR would hold them back from leaving the ACC.
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That is my educated guess. But also what I have pieced together. We have the greatest chance to move, but it will be costly.
 
A lot of BS is all over the internet by various noodlers regarding the Irish exit mechanism and the costs of that exit.

What we do know:

.....The ACC Exit fee is currently $108 million

.....Notre Dame was allowed to participate in the ACC under conditions

1---The signing of a GOR binding non football, except hockey, sports until 2037

2---The signing of an ancillary to that GOR that specified the number of football games that the Irish would schedule against ACC teams per season and guaranteed that, if he Irish joined a conference for football, it would be the ACC.
 
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billybud said:
I'll stop believing that the GOR is a binding tie when anyone, anywhere, challenges and beats a GOR...

It is such a simple contract. No mention of dissolution, no mention of damages, no mechanism for leaving a conference...just a straight assigning of rights for a period of time.
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Don’t worry. It’s coming old codger.
 
If the Irish paid the Exit fee...the ACC would still own all of the media rights other than football...and could/would ask for massive damages in addition.

Irish will remain independent.

(although some of the ACC football schools are salivating at the prospect of Notre Dame breaking the shackles).

But it is the Hotel California.
 
ZooCougar said:
Don’t worry. It’s coming old codger.
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F. off caged cat...I'm no codger, old maybe.

I could be wrong...but I do not think so in the shorter term...although praying that I am.

Gawd...how I have despised the ACC. The thought of me coming to end life with my school still stuck in the hotel..yech

You can check out any time that you like
But you can never leave
 
The only way that I can see to make everything work is that the ACC/ESPN contract contains an out provision for ESPN to void the conference contract and thus the GOR.

Nobody has seen a copy of the ACC/ESPN contract since it is not subject to FOIA.

I find it interesting that the school presidents were not privy to a billion dollar contract. FSU, under FOIA demands, states that they never saw it and that the conference office negotiated it and signed it.
 
billybud said:
F. off caged cat...I'm no codger, old maybe.

I could be wrong...but I do not think so in the shorter term...although praying that I am.

Gawd...how I have despised the ACC. The thought of me coming to end life with my school still stuck in the hotel..yech

You can check out any time that you like
But you can never leave
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It’s coming. Probably won’t be in the near future, but it looks like there will be a Power 2 and a Leftover 1 with The Big12 (with a new name, of course) being the 3rd. If the Big10 and SEC go to 24, that’s 48 teams. Place 20-24 teams in the Big12 and you have everything taken care of. 68-72 teams and you are set.

The GOR does not exist if The ACC is disbanded, there would be nothing to hold the rights. To avoid legal issues, you would have to give whomever isn’t in the P2 the same money and exposure as they would have had in the ACC. That’s where the leftover conference comes in.

The only teams you would have to worry about are those from the ACC as you would be disbanding before the end of the GOR and media contract.
 
billybud said:
I find it interesting that the school presidents were not privy to a billion dollar contract. FSU, under FOIA demands, states that they never saw it and that the conference office negotiated it and signed it.
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It makes perfect sense. They had their lawyers read it, but at the ACC headquarters (which is a private organization). It does not fall under any FOIA. Notice that each of the P5 has at least 1 private school? Northwestern, Stanford, Baylor, Vandy and the many ACC private schools are all not subjected to FOIA.
 
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dayooper said:
It’s coming. Probably won’t be in the near future, but it looks like there will be a Power 2 and a Leftover 1 with The Big12 (with a new name, of course) being the 3rd. If the Big10 and SEC go to 24, that’s 48 teams. Place 20-24 teams in the Big12 and you have everything taken care of. 68-72 teams and you are set.

The GOR does not exist if The ACC is disbanded, there would be nothing to hold the rights. To avoid legal issues, you would have to give whomever isn’t in the P2 the same money and exposure as they would have had in the ACC. That’s where the leftover conference comes in.

The only teams you would have to worry about are those from the ACC as you would be disbanding before the end of the GOR and media contract.
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I don’t understand this infatuation with the Big XII as a landing spot for teams that bring in sizable revenue.
 
Billy Jack said:
I don’t understand this infatuation with the Big XII as a landing spot for teams that bring in sizable revenue.
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I don't know either but it's almost like being in the middle of the country gives leftover Pac12 teams a spot to fly east and leftover ACC teams a spot to fly west and keeps either ACC or Pac12 teams from having to fly all the way across the country.
You know what? Just make the Big12 leftovers, Pac12 leftovers and ACC leftovers play all their games in the DFW area every weekend. Have double headers, triple headers, whatever. Make the travel predictable and easy direct flights. Smaller sports can use whatever venues are in that metro area.
 
Chin Diesel said:
I don't know either but it's almost like being in the middle of the country gives leftover Pac12 teams a spot to fly east and leftover ACC teams a spot to fly west and keeps either ACC or Pac12 teams from having to fly all the way across the country.
You know what? Just make the Big12 leftovers, Pac12 leftovers and ACC leftovers play all their games in the DFW area every weekend. Have double headers, triple headers, whatever. Make the travel predictable and easy direct flights. Smaller sports can use whatever venues are in that metro area.
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Okay. But that assumes that East Coast and West Coast teams never play each other.
 
Billy Jack said:
Okay. But that assumes that East Coast and West Coast teams never play each other.
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Well, you have two divisions and play almost all your games within your division and then they meet for a conference championship game.
 
There is an FSU board "insider"who agrees with you dayooper...and folks on the board listen to him.

He posted in 2017 about the move to two leagues and had the USC-UCLA call to the B1G a year before there was a whisper,

And he still thinks the ACC will blow up but that it will be messy.
 
Chin Diesel said:
I don't know either but it's almost like being in the middle of the country gives leftover Pac12 teams a spot to fly east and leftover ACC teams a spot to fly west and keeps either ACC or Pac12 teams from having to fly all the way across the country.
You know what? Just make the Big12 leftovers, Pac12 leftovers and ACC leftovers play all their games in the DFW area every weekend. Have double headers, triple headers, whatever. Make the travel predictable and easy direct flights. Smaller sports can use whatever venues are in that metro area.
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It’s not an infatuation, it’s the process in which things must happen. The ACC would be impossible if they dissolved the conference to bypass the GOR while if the Big10 were to take 3-4 more teams, the PAC would lose a total of 5-6 of its 12 teams. That leaves the Big12 with 12 teams (assuming no Big12 teams get called up) with their ~$80 million exit fee. Take the leftover ACC and PAC schools (you can leave off WSU one Oregon State, if you want) and you have, imo, the cleanest option. You would still have room for teams like Memphis and UConn at the table.

Honestly, the least deserving of the P5 is the Big12. They are the last conference I want to succeed. Just having the WVU Twitterati going on and on about BS is enough for me. They also have the least deserving schools that have been living off of Texas and Oklahoma since the first round of expansion hit in 2010. The circumstances of their contract and the lack of desirable schools keeps them together. I would love to see The PAC make it even if it’s for the fact that a Yooper, Dr Glenn Seaborg became the Pres of Cal Berkeley (had the element Seaborgium named after him) and helped get the PAC off of its feet.
 
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Chin Diesel said:
Well, you have two divisions and play almost all your games within your division and then they meet for a conference championship game.
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This. With the far reaching conferences, you schedule 1 long road trips to play some of the distant schools and you meet in the conference championships. Sports like track, wrestling, gymnastics or any individual sports you can hold tournaments where multiple schools meet. Team sports a a bit tougher, but you don’t have to play everybody if you make the tournament winner the champ.
 
billybud said:
The only way that I can see to make everything work is that the ACC/ESPN contract contains an out provision for ESPN to void the conference contract and thus the GOR.

Nobody has seen a copy of the ACC/ESPN contract since it is not subject to FOIA.

I find it interesting that the school presidents were not privy to a billion dollar contract. FSU, under FOIA demands, states that they never saw it and that the conference office negotiated it and signed it.
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I'm pretty sure that the rights were granted to the conference, not ESPN. The ACC should still be able to retain the rights of each member even if something happens with the ESPN contract.

While it is highly unlikely that any member school would not have seen the contract (many likely participated in the negotiations) it is plausible that as the rights were granted to the conference, it was the conference, not the school who negotiated the contract.

It also is likely that plausible deniability was among what those involved intended while undertaking this process.
 
billybud said:
If the Irish paid the Exit fee...the ACC would still own all of the media rights other than football...and could/would ask for massive damages in addition.

Irish will remain independent.

(although some of the ACC football schools are salivating at the prospect of Notre Dame breaking the shackles).

But it is the Hotel California.
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The GOR/media rights won't be the reason ND stays in the ACC because in just a few years of BIG media revenue they will have paid off the ACC GOR.
 
I think the current 10 members of the PAC-12 are better off without the Big 12. The PAC is more prestigious, even after losing USC and UCLA. However, the B1G may continue to raid the PAC 12 and the PAC cannot afford to lose any more schools. The B1G holds the PACs life in its hands.

We’ve seen estimates on how much revenue Stanford, Cal, Oregon and Washington sports can generate - all less than the expected average payout for the next B1G contract. However, what we have not seen are estimates on how much money can be gained from academic research consortiums and the like. Research money trumps athletic money.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I'm pretty sure that the rights were granted to the conference, not ESPN. The ACC should still be able to retain the rights of each member even if something happens with the ESPN contract.

While it is highly unlikely that any member school would not have seen the contract (many likely participated in the negotiations) it is plausible that as the rights were granted to the conference, it was the conference, not the school who negotiated the contract.

It also is likely that plausible deniability was among what those involved intended while undertaking this process.
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The GOR and the ESPN contract are linked....

Check out #1 Grant of Rights

The agreement is to give exclusive rights to the conference "as necessary to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in the ESPN agreement"...

And we do not know what that agreement says.....and multiple lawyers have tried FOIA's at different programs to obtain it to no avail.

 
Rufus said:
I think the current 10 members of the PAC-12 are better off without the Big 12. The PAC is more prestigious, even after losing USC and UCLA. However, the B1G may continue to raid the PAC 12 and the PAC cannot afford to lose any more schools. The B1G holds the PACs life in its hands.

We’ve seen estimates on how much revenue Stanford, Cal, Oregon and Washington sports can generate - all less than the expected average payout for the next B1G contract. However, what we have not seen are estimates on how much money can be gained from academic research consortiums and the like. Research money trumps athletic money.
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For the Big10, yes. Having Stanford and, to a lesser effect, Cal in the Big10 Consortium (whatever it’s called) would make the Big10 presidents very happy. If the end game is 24, Washington, Oregon and Stanford are locks while Cal having a great chance. If the end game is 20, it’s less of a sure thing with Stanford being the leader. This is just my opinion, of course.
 
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