Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[CL82]

And yet, Rutgers will still be ringing up epic deficits

 

[bobbyinaz]

I’m sure I’ll regret asking, but “stupid” for who exactly? Who in the SEC B1G thinks any of this is stupid?

My point was that outside of the SEC/B1G the decisions have been atrocious.

How about the stupid decision the Big East made to turn down over $1B after which ESPN blew up the conference?

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

How about the B12 for not closing the deal and getting Clemson & FSU when they had the chance? Maybe UT & OK don't leave if those 2 schools were added years ago.

How about nearly every decision Larry Scott and the PAC have made the last 10 years causing the conference to be on the brink of collapse.

The Little 3 are in the position they are now because they allowed the P2 to accumulate power while they floundered along

 

[CAtlantic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[TRest]

The ACC suddenly concerned with leopards eating people's faces.

 

[traitor71]

So it's a "gold standard" consultant that he won't reveal the name of?

Thats's so cute

Reminds me of this.

 

[goldendomer]

We need flying ponies , but no one has got them suckers. Football is to far gone and not turning back.

 

[Kolumbo]

 

[billybud]

bobbyinaz posted:

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

Well......the problem is that the ACC was and is an ESPN property.

And while New York may be sweet, the ESPN bees don't know it.

New York is not an ESPN college football top market (not in top 10 ESPN college football markets)...

Louisville is #4...

 

[NowInStorrs]

bobbyinaz posted:

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

Well......the problem is that the ACC was and is an ESPN property.

And while New York may be sweet, the ESPN bees don't know it.

New York is not an ESPN college football top market (not in top 10 ESPN college football markets)...

Louisville is #4...

Maybe NYC isn't a top market for ESPN because they're showing Syracuse games.

 

[dayooper]

bobbyinaz posted:

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

Well......the problem is that the ACC was and is an ESPN property.

And while New York may be sweet, the ESPN bees don't know it.

New York is not an ESPN college football top market (not in top 10 ESPN college football markets)...

Louisville is #4...

And this means what? All of these but 1 are owned by ESPN and, quite frankly, are rather small. Here are the size ranks of each.

Birmingham - 40
New Orleans - 53
Richmond - 58
Louisville - 50
Greenville, Spartanburg, Asheville - 58
Knoxville - 59
Greensboro, High Pointe, Winston-Salem - 46
Charlotte - 24
Memphis - 48
Columbus - 32

I know these place are high ratings places, but the size of these markets are very small. Most don’t even rate in the top 25 with Columbus a Big10 town.

I get the point of being a regional conference with rivalries that transcend sports. One of the reasons there’s so much rivalry between UM and OSU is there an intense rivalry between the states that existed before the 1st football game was ever played. The games played and incidences that occurred (the snow bowl, both UM and OSU running up the score, the 10 year war, OSU slowing down the UM players from entering Ohio Stadium in ‘06 by having the sheriffs and their police dogs go through every bag before they could enter the locker room).

What’s the reason for playing big time athletics? Why spend all of that money? Why do so many schools go into the red for their athletic programs? Most would say to win championships, but why is that important? The reason I believe is the same reason many schools are building new dorms, academic buildings and facilities. It’s why many wealthy suburban public and private schools are building new buildings, refurbishing and refreshing older buildings. To attract new students/ families. I’m a teacher and coach here in Michigan. My principal says that new families don’t shop houses, they shop schools and purchase houses accordingly so their kids can attend that school.

Being able to market their school to a nationwide audience is huge. A true nation wide audience. It’s why ND values their independence (at the administrative level). It’s why Rutgers, UMD, USC and, to a lesser extent, USC are now in the Big10. Marketing your schools to a wider audience.

I’d be interested in seeing what Fox’s top 10 markets are. I’m sure NYC, DC, Chicago and Philly aren’t on the list, but I bet #11 Detroit and #17 Cleveland are.

 

[bobbyinaz]

bobbyinaz posted:

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

Well......the problem is that the ACC was and is an ESPN property.

And while New York may be sweet, the ESPN bees don't know it.

New York is not an ESPN college football top market (not in top 10 ESPN college football markets)...

Louisville is #4...

The minute Rutgers was added to the B1G they generated MILLIONS of dollars to the conference because of their value to the B1G Network.

If UConn & Rutgers were added when they added Cuse & Pitt the Network could've launched then instead of ESPN slow playing it until 2019. An ACC Newtork that had UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse & BC games, plus all the other ACC games would've commanded premium rates in NYC immediately, just like the Rutgers add did. As a member of the ACC, FSU would've benefited like everyone else.

Keep holding on to the fact that ESPN says Louisville is the #4 market is some BS made up top 10. Top 10 market of what? Total viewers? Doubtful. Percentage of TVs that tune in? Maybe. Either way you're talking about a drop in the bucket.

If you don't understand simple math that 7,452,620 TV households in NYC is WAY (see, I can use the bold button too) more significant than the 663,520 in Louisville I don't know what to tell you.

Keep buying the crap ESPN is feeding you. Congratulations on being an ESPN property that they could care less about. They have had numerous chances to revisit the contract since it was signed and instead of throwing some more money to its "valued" property, it went out and went all in with your closest geographic competitor

 

[bobbyinaz]

And this means what? All of these but 1 are owned by ESPN and, quite frankly, are rather small. Here are the size ranks of each.

Birmingham - 40
New Orleans - 53
Richmond - 58
Louisville - 50
Greenville, Spartanburg, Asheville - 58
Knoxville - 59
Greensboro, High Pointe, Winston-Salem - 46
Charlotte - 24
Memphis - 48
Columbus - 32

I know these place are high ratings places, but the size of these markets are very small. Most don’t even rate in the top 25 with Columbus a Big10 town.

I get the point of being a regional conference with rivalries that transcend sports. One of the reasons there’s so much rivalry between UM and OSU is there an intense rivalry between the states that existed before the 1st football game was ever played. The games played and incidences that occurred (the snow bowl, both UM and OSU running up the score, the 10 year war, OSU slowing down the UM players from entering Ohio Stadium in ‘06 by having the sheriffs and their police dogs go through every bag before they could enter the locker room).

What’s the reason for playing big time athletics? Why spend all of that money? Why do so many schools go into the red for their athletic programs? Most would say to win championships, but why is that important? The reason I believe is the same reason many schools are building new dorms, academic buildings and facilities. It’s why many wealthy suburban public and private schools are building new buildings, refurbishing and refreshing older buildings. To attract new students/ families. I’m a teacher and coach here in Michigan. My principal says that new families don’t shop houses, they shop schools and purchase houses accordingly so their kids can attend that school.

Being able to market their school to a nationwide audience is huge. A true nation wide audience. It’s why ND values their independence (at the administrative level). It’s why Rutgers, UMD, USC and, to a lesser extent, USC are now in the Big10. Marketing your schools to a wider audience.

I’d be interested in seeing what Fox’s top 10 markets are. I’m sure NYC, DC, Chicago and Philly aren’t on the list, but I bet #11 Detroit and #17 Cleveland are.

Beat me too it

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Urcea]

Maybe NYC isn't a top market for ESPN because they're showing Syracuse games.

Kind of a head scratcher that the ACC didn’t try to dominate the northeastern megalopolis last time. If they took UCONN with some kind of arrangement to get Villanova to the FBS they could have dominated in basketball and in the largest TV markets in the country

 

[billybud]

If you have a bunch of households that don't watch college football on ESPN...size of market does not matter....particularly when it is eyeballs watching that prices advertising. Market matters less than actual numbers watching.

ESPN and the ACC was already was carried in most set top boxes in New York (and on YES)...but folks watch pro sports...so adding a college football team, you look for where eyeballs will watch it...and it was not New York.

Yes, Rutgers brought set top boxes and a some viewers as a NY home team....But the south was clearly where people turned on ESPN to watch college football.

 

[Hoophound]

If you have a bunch of households that don't watch college football on ESPN...size of market does not matter....particularly when it is eyeballs watching that prices advertising. Market matters less than actual numbers watching.

ESPN and the ACC was already was carried in most set top boxes in New York (and on YES)...but folks watch pro sports...so adding a college football team, you look for where eyeballs will watch it...and it was not New York.

Yes, Rutgers brought set top boxes and a some viewers as a NY home team....But the south was clearly where people turned on ESPN to watch college football.

It all comes back to winning. UConn was a media darling while winning. If UConn or Rutgers excelled in football, there would be a tidal wave of support. We’ve seen glimpses of it happening from both programs.

 

[billybud]

And...lest we forget..Rutgers was not really about New York. It was Delaney's fear after the ACC announced Notre Dame realtionship...fear of the ACC poaching Penn State...cut 'em off at the pass .Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State

Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State​

Smith admits that there was a fear that the ACC could poach Penn State, so part of the selling point on adding Maryland and Rutgers was to give PSU some neighboring programs.

He added: “Here’s one thing that people seem to forget about our move with Rutgers and Maryland. At the time, the ACC was looking to expand. Part of our move was to protect Penn State. Everyone forgets we had a teammate and partner institution that was on a [geographic] island, so what we did, beyond gaining exposure, is we further brought in a valued partner in Penn State. Had Penn State defected to the ACC, what would the conversation have been then?”

 

[DGB]

If you have a bunch of households that don't watch college football on ESPN...size of market does not matter....particularly when it is eyeballs watching that prices advertising. Market matters less than actual numbers watching.

ESPN and the ACC was already was carried in most set top boxes in New York (and on YES)...but folks watch pro sports...so adding a college football team, you look for where eyeballs will watch it...and it was not New York.

Yes, Rutgers brought set top boxes and a some viewers as a NY home team....But the south was clearly where people turned on ESPN to watch college football.

The ACC could have added UConn, West Virginia, and Rutgers. Three state schools that were all pretty good at football at the time (UConn actually beat Louisville in football the year the ACC added Louisville for "football reasons").

Instead they added a private Syracuse because ESPN is run by their media department, Pitt because I guess they thought it was the 80s and BC wanted to be New England's team (lol), and Louisville because FSU and Clemson wanted to flex their muscles and make a more culturally aligned pic than UConn seemingly just to piss off Carolina and Duke.

These were catastrophic decisions, with one being dumber than the next. FSU and Clemson representatives should be made to attend meetings with dunce caps on their heads for the Louisville pic, which may have been the dumbest, least logical add in the conference realignment era.

And spare us about the football ratings in Louisville. It's a small market that UL shares with UK.

 

[huskymedic]

And...lest we forget..Rutgers was not really about New York. It was Delaney's fear after the ACC announced Notre Dame realtionship...fear of the ACC poaching Penn State...cut 'em off at the pass .Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State

Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State​

Smith admits that there was a fear that the ACC could poach Penn State, so part of the selling point on adding Maryland and Rutgers was to give PSU some neighboring programs.

Got a link from the article where you pulled that excerpt from?

This article w/ a similar headline also includes this:

-> Delany, who came aboard in 1989 and will retire in June 2020, brought unprecedented wealth and exposure to the conference by adding Penn State and Nebraska and then Maryland and Rutgers. Big Ten schools hand out television money hand over fist every year, and Delany is as much of a reason for that as any. He played a role in the development of Big Ten Network, and let’s not forget that by adding Rutgers, the Big Ten landed in the New York television and media market, as well, and all the dollars and cents that come with it. Maryland brought BTN expanded east coast eyeballs too, which equals additional cable dollars and more revenue. <-

 

[CAtlantic]

 

[billybud]

Got a link from the article where you pulled that excerpt from?

This article w/ a similar headline also includes this:

-> Delany, who came aboard in 1989 and will retire in June 2020, brought unprecedented wealth and exposure to the conference by adding Penn State and Nebraska and then Maryland and Rutgers. Big Ten schools hand out television money hand over fist every year, and Delany is as much of a reason for that as any. He played a role in the development of Big Ten Network, and let’s not forget that by adding Rutgers, the Big Ten landed in the New York television and media market, as well, and all the dollars and cents that come with it. Maryland brought BTN expanded east coast eyeballs too, which equals additional cable dollars and more revenue. <-

Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State

In the last major round of conference realignment, the Big Ten poached Maryland from the ACC, and Rutgers from the AAC (formerly of the Big East). Half a

thespun.com

Alvarez: B1G added to avoid losing PSU

Just when we thought Barry Alvarez had made enough headlines for one week, the Wisconsin athletic director/interim football coach gave us another delicious gem.

www.espn.com

"Jim [Delany] felt that someday, if we didn’t have anyone else in that corridor, someday it wouldn't make sense maybe for Penn State to be in our league. That they would go into a league somewhere on the east coast. By doing that, it keeps us in the northeast corridor."

Big Ten targeted Maryland partly because it feared losing Penn State​

http://www.capitalgazette.com/bs-um-alumni-pictures-photogallery.html

Capital Gazette: Annapolis breaking news, sports, weather and traffic

Capital Gazette breaking news, sports, weather and traffic in Annapolis, Anne Arundel County

www.capitalgazette.com

 

[noeynox]

Newsom won’t do a thing but flail around like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum. He has no power here and he has to be wary of the UCLA alumni and fans. If I am reading the situation correctly, UCLA alumni/fans are just a bit more invested in their athletics than Berkeley alumni/fans are. It’s a fine line he is playing and the average Cali resident probably doesn’t care.

Be something if he muddies the move for UCLA and the B1G takes another PAC school instead. And UCLA ends up SOL.

 

[businesslawyer]

bobbyinaz posted:

How stupid was the ACC, when they passed on adding UConn & Rutgers, who combined with Cuse would've given the conference a stranglehold on NYC and caused the ACC Network to start much sooner?

Well......the problem is that the ACC was and is an ESPN property.

And while New York may be sweet, the ESPN bees don't know it.

New York is not an ESPN college football top market (not in top 10 ESPN college football markets)...

Louisville is #4...

Oh come on. You’re smarter than that post. Do advertisers pay for eyeballs watching or percentage of the market watching? To pretend Birmingham is more important than New York because a higher percentage of viewers like college football is stupid or an attempt to spread disinformation

 

[billybud]

You have to ask why...just why...New York isn't a top ESPN college football audience....data is data.

Could it be that New England just is not a college football watching area?

Sure..big metro's have the big population numbers...important if you count boxes on TV's. But if you want actual audiences that watch your college football product..welll then....

You have to ask...Why would places like Birmingham, Richmond, Greenville/Asheville, Greensboro-High Point, NC, Louisville outrank New York, Chicago, Denver, etc....for ESPN college football watching.

We all like to believe what we believe....but data is data...and ESPN's top 10 markets for college football are not northern outside of Columbus, Ohio.

 

[dayooper]

You have to ask why...just why...New York isn't a top ESPN college football audience....data is data.

Could it be that New England just is not a college football watching area?

Sure..big metro's have the big population numbers...important if you count boxes on TV's. But if you want actual audiences that watch your college football product..welll then....

You have to ask...Why would places like Birmingham, Richmond, Greenville/Asheville, Greensboro-High Point, NC, Louisville outrank New York, Chicago, Denver, etc....for ESPN college football watching.

We all like to believe what we believe....but data is data...and ESPN's top 10 markets for college football are not northern outside of Columbus, Ohio.

But what is the data? That could mean anything. Just a few examples:

1. The highest percentage of viewers
2. The most viewers
3. The most money earned by a market
4. Highest ad rates
5. Most ESPN T-shirts sold
6. Most residents visiting the ESPN Zone
7. The most residents that think Chris Berman is a hottie.

You are using data that isn’t defined and placing your spin on it. Data is useless with explanation and you give absolutely none. Based on your assessment, one could make the argument that Atlanta, Miami, Nashville, Tampa or any other large market is useless to a sports broadcast company as they aren’t listed on ESPN’s top 10.

Are those small markets valuable? Absolutely! Without knowing the ad revenue from each market, you can’t draw anything from ESPN’s post.

FYI - You still haven’t answered my question on why universities play big time athletics. Most teams go into the red doing so.

 

[billybud]

Dayooper...answered your question?

Did you ask it of me? Please link.

 

[dayooper]

Dayooper...answered your question?

Did you ask it of me? Please link.

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

Let’s assume the ACC creates an innovative strategy to generate revenue. The B1G and SEC can simply duplicate that and probably raise even more money than the ACC can doing the same thing. The ACC added Syracuse for the NYC market. The B1G added Rutgers for the NYC market. We only need to...

the-boneyard.com

The question in the post:

What’s the reason for playing big time athletics? Why spend all of that money? Why do so many schools go into the red for their athletic programs? Most would say to win championships, but why is that important?

 

[billybud]

Dayooper....good questions re data...

According to Stephanie Divito, ESPN’s Senior Director of Media Intelligence, the Magic City (Birmingham) was ranked number #1 in terms of viewership for ESPN’s flagship network in 2020.

In layman’s terms, the ranking is based on Nielson ratings in 56 different markets in the United States. It is based on the percent of TV homes in the market that are tuned in to ESPN in any given quarter hour during the day.

Birmingham declared top ESPN market for 12th consecutive year | Bham Now

The Birmingham TV market was ranked number #1 in terms of viewership for ESPN’s flagship network in 2020.

bhamnow.com

 

[Ldandy]

Ohio State AD Gene Smith Says Maryland, Rutgers Helped Prevent ACC From Poaching Penn State

In the last major round of conference realignment, the Big Ten poached Maryland from the ACC, and Rutgers from the AAC (formerly of the Big East). Half a

thespun.com

Alvarez: B1G added to avoid losing PSU

Just when we thought Barry Alvarez had made enough headlines for one week, the Wisconsin athletic director/interim football coach gave us another delicious gem.

www.espn.com

Big Ten targeted Maryland partly because it feared losing Penn State​

Famous University of Maryland alumni

Capital Gazette: Annapolis breaking news, sports, weather and traffic

Capital Gazette breaking news, sports, weather and traffic in Annapolis, Anne Arundel County

www.capitalgazette.com

The ACC may have reached out to Penn State through back channels, but there's more of a chance that a UFO carrying 2Pac, Elvis, and Bigfoot would land at the 50 yard line of the Super Bowl than the school making that move. The reality is that The B1G is the best cultural, academic, and athletic fit for a large land grant university with a focus on research like Penn State. The overall sports offering of the conference mirrors that of Penn State very well. Sure they "could" find a home in The ACC with old rivals like Pitt and Syracuse, some older fans would enjoy it, but culturally they have far less in common with the mix of private and smallish public schools that make up its ranks. Realistically there are about 4-6 schools that don't belong in The Big East/ACC Mish Mash and should be fighting like hell to get in The B1G or SEC. Nobody in the now P2 is going anywhere.