Kentucky/Duke Order of Hate - It's finally Happened

[Waquoit]

Never hated Duke worse than the Squid. I still hate UMass.

 

[upstater]

I don't get what this means. Who is he taking advantage of? I'm genuinely curious. I get why college basketball fans are naturally inclined to root against Kentucky. They're the antithesis of what college basketball should stand for idealistically. Where I believe the disconnect lies is in attributing that diversion from the golden age of college basketball to Cal, especially when other top coaches like Self and K are beginning to adopt variations of his model. I believe your blame is misplaced.

It's a system that was setup for student-athletes. Yeah, the system's original or main reason for being has been perverted. But never to this degree.

 

[upstater]

He was "uber-cynical" in taking advantage of the system? Are you saying that other programs could be stacking their entire rosters with All-Americans and going to the Final Four every year but they choose not to? Even for you, that's a tough sell.

If you don't think that Kentucky's size has been too much for them, it's not clear what game you're watching.

I have no interest in watching semi-pro, minor league or pre-pro guys go at it. I can't think of anything more boring. Maybe you do. The more professional these teams become, the less interest I have. I'd never go see a NBDL game either.

 

[Rico444]

BUT, the University of Kentucky administration has sold their soles to win basketball games.

It's alright, I'm sure Worldwide Wes can hook them up with some new Jordans.

 

[mauconnfan]

Never hated Duke worse than the Squid. I still hate UMass.

The funny thing about UMass is there are people who still crawl out of the woodwork here in WesMass and talk about the Cal/JC days. I will be at the golf course, a bar or something (or the bar at a a golf course lol) wearing UConn apparel and the questions begin with are you a fan and almost always drift to "too bad Calhoun was afraid to play us back in the 90's" and then an ensuing battle occurs. As you know normally I'm a laid back guy and this wouldn't get me going but usually I can't refrain from a smart a** volley.

Now having said that, they aren't in my "hated teams" file these days or actually after the Squid left the place torched in his snake oil. Kellogg, who is from Squid lineage, isn't all that much like him. Actually a good kid form the Springfield area and a decent coach, not great but more than likely will stay and be the UMass guy for many years. It's a good fit and he is getting some nice players. Not saying I am a fan, but on occasion will actually hope they pull one out.

 

[Waquoit]

Mau, that smear was a lie that was repeated so often it became canon. em all.

 

[Inyatkin]

Yes but, remember, hate comes from fear and fear comes from living in the future. People fear that Calipari (it really isn't about Kentucky) will eventually become unbeatable. Duke has been in that category for some time as well.

It isn't that irrational. Face it, both teams have 9 McD all americans and 10 total 5 star players. Yes, we have beaten these goliaths in the past but they seem to come back even bigger every time. It is reasonable to wonder if, eventually, our David will not be able to overcome them.

Calm down. A team with four titles since '99 is not exactly "David" anymore, and high school all-Americans do not equal championships.

 

[Kembacity]

The funny thing about UMass is there are people who still crawl out of the woodwork here in WesMass and talk about the Cal/JC days. I will be at the golf course, a bar or something (or the bar at a a golf course lol) wearing UConn apparel and the questions begin with are you a fan and almost always drift to "too bad Calhoun was afraid to play us back in the 90's" and then an ensuing battle occurs. As you know normally I'm a laid back guy and this wouldn't get me going but usually I can't refrain from a smart a** volley.

Now having said that, they aren't in my "hated teams" file these days or actually after the Squid left the place torched in his snake oil. Kellogg, who is from Squid lineage, isn't all that much like him. Actually a good kid form the Springfield area and a decent coach, not great but more than likely will stay and be the UMass guy for many years. It's a good fit and he is getting some nice players. Not saying I am a fan, but on occasion will actually hope they pull one out.

This is hilarious to me because I'm living in Mass now, and there are obviously a lot of UMass alums around here. My first year here was last year, and my cube was covered in UConn stuff. So all season long I'd get teased about losses and no more calhoun... and then when March rolled around and I was suddenly the only College BBall fan with a team still alive, the respect and jealousy came out.

The UMass fans around here aren't bad, they're realistic, and UMass has zero presence, so if anything the other basketball fans are in support of the fact that there is a dominant team in their neck of the woods. They live vicariously through our success and attention. I was talking to some of them after the amazing buzzer beating dunk that sent their game to OT, and telling them about how early season game performance doesn't mean much to me because we only tend to blow them out when we are a top 10 dominating team. One of them then said, yeah well what do the early games matter for when all that's gonna happen is you'll have some barely 6' point guard dominate March and bring another ridiculous title back home... I get a lot of pride out of comments like that and I was quick to point out that the next PG in the lineage is even smaller

 

[SirHypeAlot]

I still have tremendous hate for both teams. Whilst watching Kentucky trounce Kansas last night i found great solice harping back to memories of the championship game when Shabazz and Boat made fools of the Harrison twins.
I'll admit Kentucky's length is scary. Kansas did not look the the #5 team in the country. Now maybe more than ever i'm rooting for Kentucky to lose because of all the hype this "two platoon" team is getting. I still think a veteran, well coached team could knock them out in the tourney.

How does everyone think Shabazz's squad would have done against this Kentucky team? Man do i wish i could see him light those SOBs up.

 

[mauconnfan]

I still have tremendous hate for both teams. Whilst watching Kentucky trounce Kansas last night i found great solice harping back to memories of the championship game when Shabazz and Boat made fools of the Harrison twins.
I'll admit Kentucky's length is scary. Kansas did not look the the #5 team in the country. Now maybe more than ever i'm rooting for Kentucky to lose because of all the hype this "two platoon" team is getting. I still think a veteran, well coached team could knock them out in the tourney.

How does everyone think Shabazz's squad would have done against this Kentucky team? Man do i wish i could see him light those SOBs up.

That is a good question unfortunately it will only be fair to see how this UK team is in March/April to make a judgement call. The team I saw last night made plenty of errors to allow Boat to throw daggers in the end. If they tighten the ship and everyone's on board it may turn out to be an unfair comparison which most of us would tend to stay away from!

 

[Citrusdog]

I officially hate Kentucky more than Dook.
Notwithstanding the 2010 NC, I'm starting to feel a touch sorry for Dook and how pathetic they have been in the tourni.
Kentucky is just the antiChrist now, and every fan who loves college basketball should be rooting with all they've got to have them lose. They are bad for college basketball.
EDIT - watching the Kansas game, UK has got their work cut out for them. Too many chefs spoil the soup.

I completely agree... I cannot stand the squid... and how he is ruining a great basketball institution...

 

[intlzncster]

That is a good question unfortunately it will only be fair to see how this UK team is in March/April to make a judgement call. The team I saw last night made plenty of errors to allow Boat to throw daggers in the end. If they tighten the ship and everyone's on board it may turn out to be an unfair comparison which most of us would tend to stay away from!

They'll definitely improve; certainly the case last year. All those frosh will have a year experience under their belt and the lineup will be ironed out. The 'platoon' will likely be long gone come March.

 

[Mr. French]

I actually may now hate Cuse more than Duke, at least recently. It does ebb and flow depending on rosters, how the coach is acting, etc. Boeheim recently has become unbearable to me, and Cal since going to UK has gradually gotten worse and worse.

Recently, my hatred for Cal and thus UK, plus Cuse really stems from my inability to respect how they run their program and how they act vs. how "scared" I am of them being good. Honestly towards the end of JC's career, when I was genuinely worried ab our future, those thoughts crept in...we've won 2 chips since, that gives me a peace of mind about every other program in the country. It would take a lot for any of our "rivals" to start a valid argument against our accomplishments, which makes me hate Cal and JB even more! Because they get royal treatment when they consistently disappoint...ESPN to me has a ton of blame in that as well.

 

[Paesano]

Calm down. A team with four titles since '99 is not exactly "David" anymore, and high school all-Americans do not equal championships.

I am calm. I am also verbose because it is a complicated situation full of opinions.

David did not become a giant when he slayed goliath. He was still David, the goliath slayer. We are still David. What was our pre-season ranking? I happen to think it was also fair. How many McD all americans do we have? One? How many 5 star recruits? Two? We are still David. We are also still a goliath slayer because of our coaching staff and the character of our players but we are still David when compared to the talent monsters that are Duke and Kentucky. Are these monsters still slayable or have they become too big? That is the question behind what some people see as an obsession by others.

 

[pepband99]

I completely agree... I cannot stand the squid... and how he is ruining a great basketball institution...

you mean the "institution" that employed a flat out racist, a cheater, an adulterer (later on), and the squid? That one?

 

[jibsey]

I am calm. I am also verbose because it is a complicated situation full of opinions.

David did not become a giant when he slayed goliath. He was still David, the goliath slayer. We are still David. What was our pre-season ranking? I happen to think it was also fair. How many McD all americans do we have? One? How many 5 star recruits? Two? We are still David. We are also still a goliath slayer because of our coaching staff and the character of our players but we are still David when compared to the talent monsters that are Duke and Kentucky. Are these monsters still slayable or have they become too big? That is the question behind what some people see as an obsession by others.

We won in 2011 and 2014 with 4 NBA players total. Kemba, Bazz, Boat(maybe) and Lamb? This year we have Brimah, Boat and a young DHam. How does that stack against what they have? Better against Duke than Kentucky. Those 2 teams have accumulated talent, more than us, so we are back to where we always are, underdogs. And we do pretty good from there but the hill looks higher this season.

 

[dogpause]

Louisville dismantled us pretty good ,yet a few weeks later we cut down the nets as we beat the same team that knocked them out.
Basketball is a funny game
How in the world did Houston with 2 future NBA HOFers lose to NC State?
How did a Villanova avteam that ended the season getting blown out by Pitt beat maybe the best Georgetown team ever?
Let see how the season plays out.

How did a team that lost to Louisville in early March by 30+ points, win the NCAA Championship?

 

[seeya27]

I completely agree... I cannot stand the squid... and how he is ruining a great basketball institution...

I guess I have little to add...except agreement.

Calamari is the anti-christ of college basketball. He makes Boeheim lovable.

After we beat two of Duke's best teams ever -- in excruciating fashion on the biggest stage possible (the FF), my dislike of Duke dissapated. Bizarre as it may sound, I now believe Kryszzxykslawy is one of the better guys in college basketball.

KY is my least favorite team and fan base. Cuse is a close second.

Irony: we've beaten both KY and Duke twice in the FF. They must be shaking their heads.

 

[BUConn10]

Anyone that actually follows CBB closely and thought Kansas was the #5 team in the country is a fool. Kansas gets those rankings every year because they have a huge following and it financially benefits the media outlets who make preseason rankings to rank them that high. Also, they have an easy conference which they own so they rarely lose games in the regular season so those lofty preseason rankings dont look that far off by the end of the season, making the writers who ranked them that high intially look good. Then inevitably when it gets to march and crunch time, they crumble because they have been pampered by the media all season about how good they are when they really havent been tested at all. Also Self seems like a great guy with a nice head of hair, but he really isnt the coach you want in crunch time, he is much like Boeheim that he has his team peaking in the early months.

 

[mauconnfan]

Kansas looked scared. They were intimidated by the Wildcats and it showed. Kansas will be pretty damn good though I think.

 

[husky91]

Definitely Kentucky, it isn't college athletics. It's a semi pro, NBA D league type team. Watching them I'm all for the NBA eliminating the 1 year rule. So what if 10-15 kids jump each year, it will balance the rest who actually go.

But in all seriousness look at Duke too, Okafor, Winslow and Jones are gone after 1 year too.

 

[BUConn10]

Definitely Kentucky, it isn't college athletics. It's a semi pro, NBA D league type team. Watching them I'm all for the NBA eliminating the 1 year rule. So what if 10-15 kids jump each year, it will balance the rest who actually go.

But in all seriousness look at Duke too, Okafor, Winslow and Jones are gone after 1 year too.

I was skeptical about Okafor's readiness coming into the season but just from watching the first half of the game vs. MSU I was sold. The kid is a stud at the college level, has a good understanding of positioning himself at the post and doesnt play like a which is the problem many highly touted bigs have when they come in. He's also really good at hooking his off arm on the defender when making his spin moves so that refs dont see it, will be invaluable in the NBA. His rim protection abilities seem sub-par for bigs though, but he seems like more of an offensive player anyway. As for Jones going pro after this year, I think he will be a good college guard and looks very skilled but I think he lacks the size and athleticism to jump to the league so early so he may stay another year or two.

 

[gtcam]

I've no problem with Cal taking advantage of the system in terms of stacking one and dones.

I do have a problem with the way he goes about it. It doesn't pass the sniff test to be on the up and up. I'm sure he's a good salesman, but there are plenty of good salesmen in MCBB. Recruits just 'magically' flow to that guy no matter where he is.

I'm sure he uses the UK booster cub/alumni as a recruitment tool saying that they will always be there for the athletes
I'm just waiting for one of these guys to fall on bad times and see who comes running to help them - I'm betting none
Is one of these rich people going to allow a down and out ex baller clean out their horse stables in Kentucky?

 

[BUConn10]

I'm sure he uses the UK booster cub/alumni as a recruitment tool saying that they will always be there for the athletes
I'm just waiting for one of these guys to fall on bad times and see who comes running to help them - I'm betting none
Is one of these rich people going to allow a down and out ex baller clean out their horse stables in Kentucky?

Well... that is how it worked back when Rupp was in town.

 

[intlzncster]

Anyone that actually follows CBB closely and thought Kansas was the #5 team in the country is a fool. Kansas gets those rankings every year because they have a huge following and it financially benefits the media outlets who make preseason rankings to rank them that high..... Also Self seems like a great guy with a nice head of hair, but he really isnt the coach you want in crunch time, he is much like Boeheim that he has his team peaking in the early months.

So his team is peaking right now?