OT: Kemba traded to Thunder

[the Q]

My buddy who works for espn thinks walker could move again or possible 2x more in trades.

That just means Stevens rushed the deal

Not off to a Good start

 

[Kajik]

Swapping walker for horford was a wash.Getting Moses brown was the best part of trade.The kid is impressive.in that Celtic game he dominated,he was unstoppable,well done by brad

 

[the Q]

Swapping walker for horford was a wash.Getting Moses brown was the best part of trade.The kid is impressive.in that Celtic game he dominated,he was unstoppable,well done by brad

It wasn’t a wash

It was a downgrade.

Although a better fit.

They just wasted the best pick they’ll have for at least a few years on a tax dodge

 

[Dove]

Swapping walker for horford was a wash.Getting Moses brown was the best part of trade.The kid is impressive.in that Celtic game he dominated,he was unstoppable,well done by brad

Brad Stevens saw up close and personal the issues on the court. He's the one guy who can fix it. Bring in the players that will solve the issues. I trust him.

Sad to see Kemba go but economics happened.

 

[kobebeanbryant]

Swapping walker for horford was a wash.Getting Moses brown was the best part of trade.The kid is impressive.in that Celtic game he dominated,he was unstoppable,well done by brad

Moses Brown is overrated. the thunder have been giving anyone a bunch of run to see what sticks. he had a few good games and came back down to earth.

i wouldn’t expect much from him at all.

 

[Dogdeacon]

A. Salary dump

B. Celtics need bigs, desperately needed a passing big & Horford at least previously fit the bill, if he does again its a bonus b/c again this was a salary dump

C. In retrospect Ainge panicked at loss of Kyrie and overpaid, took on injury risk and didn't calibrate fit correctly on Kemba. Its a real bummer as a UConn fan as Kemba is a great guy and a very good player. Yet the whole was always lesser than the sum of its parts even when Kemba was healty & hitting shots. Midway thru this season it was obvious Celtics had lost the Kemba sign & trade as Rozier blossomed. They had to fully take the L. They weren't trading Tatum or Jaylen, so Kemba had to go to give them flexibility to add players in next 1-3yrs. It stinks but it just kind of is what it is.

D. Celtics lose the trade, but that's the definition of a salary dump trade. I think it shows promise the Stevens is willing to lose his first trade and lose some face. Winning and losing games and building a championship team is what matters in the long run and Stevens mostly coached like that, there is a bright side here that Stevens is GM-ing for the long haul.

E. Did I mention this trade was 99% about getting out from under Kemba's salary?

 

[UConn990411]

Perhaps, but it was stated very matter of fact. No chance they'd renounce Smart. Lots of teams would trade for him. As I said before, Tatum and Brown are very young. Williams is young. Nesmith and Pritchard can improve. There's no rush. In two years you have cap space to sign a star, those five guys are all probably better than today, and you make a run.

Jaylen and Tatum can just as easily walk or ask for a trade in a couple years. If the Celtics haven’t made significant progress by then, there’s a good chance at least one of them does just that.

The days of star players watching their primes waste away are over, so it would be foolish for the Celtics to assume they’ll both stick around for the next 5-7 years.

 

[Woodson]

That just means Stevens rushed the deal

Not off to a Good start

Huh? Of course the Thunder will trade him. It's literally what they do. Maybe he plays the season out like CP3 did, eventually his agent will find a fit for him and Thunder will work with him, and probably collect more picks somehow. In the meantime, if he can stay on the court, a backcourt of him and Shai could be fun.

The trade is fine. Takes Kemba off the books so they have more money to work with to add some depth, brings in a veteran big whose strengths are what they need and have history with. 16th pick is the cost of doing business. My guess is Stevens isn't done yet... wait to see what the final picture looks like before judging so soon.

 

[the Q]

Huh? Of course the Thunder will trade him. It's literally what they do. Maybe he plays the season out like CP3 did, eventually his agent will find a fit for him and Thunder will work with him, and probably collect more picks somehow. In the meantime, if he can stay on the court, a backcourt of him and Shai could be fun.

The trade is fine. Takes Kemba off the books so they have more money to work with to add some depth, brings in a veteran big whose strengths are what they need and have history with. 16th pick is the cost of doing business. My guess is Stevens isn't done yet... wait to see what the final picture looks like before judging so soon.

they really don’t.

should’ve been at best the 2022 first

this is just more tax dodging.

normally if a team is dumping a pick like this it’s to clear out room to sign better player in fa.

that is not the case here

 

[Woodson]

they really don’t.

should’ve been at best the 2022 first

this is just more tax dodging.

normally if a team is dumping a pick like this it’s to clear out room to sign better player in fa.

that is not the case here

Ya usually a team dumps a pick like this to get out from a bad fit and contract. Sadly Kemba checks both boxes. You move on from $74 million guaranteed for $53 million (and some portion is not guaranteed) and add frontcourt depth.

If I'm Brad I'm not tossing around 2022 or future 1st rounders if they aren't protected. God forbid Tatum , Brown or both go down for extended time and who knows where that pick falls.

I'm struggling to understand what issue there is with the trade if you're a Celtics fan.

 

[uconnbill]

This was done for cap reasons and Stevens never wanted to get rid Hortford to begin with. That is why he is back and will bring as steadying influence to the big man and help Brown who has a ton of talent at center.

My wish is that Kemba played with Boston pre-injury to his knee and he would have been a huge part of the big three.

Danny made great picks at the top of the draft but the rest was more miss than hit. I want to see who they hire as a coach will say a lot.

Go Huskies and Go Celtics

 

[the Q]

Ya usually a team dumps a pick like this to get out from a bad fit and contract. Sadly Kemba checks both boxes. You move on from $74 million guaranteed for $53 million (and some portion is not guaranteed) and add frontcourt depth.

If I'm Brad I'm not tossing around 2022 or future 1st rounders if they aren't protected. God forbid Tatum , Brown or both go down for extended time and who knows where that pick falls.

I'm struggling to understand what issue there is with the trade if you're a Celtics fan.

They don’t dump picks that high. Usually they’re they’re late firsts to clear out money to sign a guy. This is like 2 or 3 late firsts (like the kanter trade last year).

This clears out money to not pay the tax.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Jaylen and Tatum can just as easily walk or ask for a trade in a couple years. If the Celtics haven’t made significant progress by then, there’s a good chance at least one of them does just that.

The days of star players watching their primes waste away are over, so it would be foolish for the Celtics to assume they’ll both stick around for the next 5-7 years.

How can they walk? Tatum’s 5 year deal starts next season. They have Brown for three more years, through 2024. That’s plenty of time for Brad to make moves and build the roster.

They still have $11m on the Hayward trade exception, plus several others and the MLE. I’m not sure what they will do, but if they believe in Smart, they can extend him now. If not, he’s a trade chip with a friendly contract that expires. But that trade exception would let them bring back more salary than the send out.

 

[UConn990411]

How can they walk? Tatum’s 5 year deal starts next season. They have Brown for three more years, through 2024. That’s plenty of time for Brad to make moves and build the roster.

They still have $11m on the Hayward trade exception, plus several others and the MLE. I’m not sure what they will do, but if they believe in Smart, they can extend him now. If not, he’s a trade chip with a friendly contract that expires. But that trade exception would let them bring back more salary than the send out.

If either guy wants out before then, that’s all it takes.

 

[Dogdeacon]

How can they walk? Tatum’s 5 year deal starts next season. They have Brown for three more years, through 2024. That’s plenty of time for Brad to make moves and build the roster.

They still have $11m on the Hayward trade exception, plus several others and the MLE. I’m not sure what they will do, but if they believe in Smart, they can extend him now. If not, he’s a trade chip with a friendly contract that expires. But that trade exception would let them bring back more salary than the send out.

Yeah, there's a knee jerk reaction to this year that the Celtics are 'over' and somehow missed the perceived opportunity of their draft pick stockpile. Its ridiculous.
1. The Celtics picks was a perceived opportunity, the picks ended up not being as high as hoped.

2. Yes they possibly could have gotten more if they'd traded those picks before # determined or selecting the players, but everything from trade value of picks, to slot in the draft, to the players selected/available were less valuable than the perception. The perception was before anyone knew the current NBA trend = draft picks not as valuable as 5+ years ago.

3. This is an overreaction to one under-achieving season after multiple over-achieving seasons. They made multiple conference finals which is great and better than The Process, Houston, Portland etc virtually every other up & coming team. Unless your expectations were for a Celtics dynasty, they haven't missed anything. Tatum & Brown are still developing and improving and thinking that their best is behind them or the window has closed is really short-sighted. With Tatum & Brown the Celtics need ONE more piece to be a championship contender and it could be on their roster (Nesmith, an always healthy Rob Williams) or one trade/signing away. It wasn't Kemba (or Kyrie ) and that's an L, but now they are taking their lumps for that and gearing up to try again.

 

[huskiesouth]

Whatever success lies in the future for the Celtics there is no question that it rides on Tatum & Brown. Hopefully Stevens and the owners have had in-person meetings with both these young stars and have emphasized that the only goal of the organization is to compete (soon) for a title and every effort will be made to accomplish this goal and stock the team with the quality players who will help these two guys achieve success in Boston.

 

[Waquoit]

This was a decisive move. I don't think one can worry about winning the trade. Ainge was obsessed with winning the trade and didn't have a plan. Does Stevens have a plan?

 

[Dogdeacon]

This was a decisive move. I don't think one can worry about winning the trade. Ainge was obsessed with winning the trade and didn't have a plan. Does Stevens have a plan?

I think Ainge had plans, most recently it was Kyrie and possibly one more free agent. The problem was when that didn't work out, he clung too tightly to that precise plan and overpaid Kemba to try and salvage. It was a decent plan B, it just didn't work.

Another miss I think the last few years is due to high payroll they never signed or traded to fill in the glaring holes mid-way thru any of the past 3-4 seasons. Had they signed one or two James Posey types it might have been enough to advance a little further in the playoffs (esp bubble playoffs).

Ainge tried to address this (namely the bench), adding role players via their draft picks but they drafted poorly. Instead of picking a role player like Thybulle they tried to buy flawed upside via picks like Romeo Langford and ended up just flawed with little meaningful bench contributors. I'd hypothesize that showing and arguing against this approach is part of how Stevens landed the GM job. The rooks & projects consistently were an albatross around the team and coach. Stevens knows not to do the same to the next coach. So rather than keep an iffy late teens pick that's at best yrs away he jettisoned it for $ that will enable them to sign a vet that's already evidenced whatever skillset the team may need.

 

[UofCT]

My buddy who works for espn thinks walker could move again or possible 2x more in trades.

Is your buddy WOJ?

 

[blackbird]

I'd say yes and no. It's true that there's not a huge appetite in the league right now for 6'0 two guards that leave you exposed to all sorts of mismatches on the other end. He does not seem particularly well-built physically for the gauntlet that is playoff basketball, and that's probably the most damning thing you can say about him, in addition to the fact that he hasn't been efficient enough - especially in the postseason - to warrant shooting at such a high volume.

But he's also clearly not the same player physically that he was in Charlotte, which makes him tough to judge. His production over his final few seasons there can't be marginalized, especially given how much better he was defensively compared to other smallish guards like Isaiah Thomas, Lou Williams, Jason Terry, etc. All the data pointed towards him being a legitimately really good player that carried those Charlotte teams.

Ultimately he found himself in that no man's land of being overqualified to lead bad teams (hence Charlotte picking in the late lottery every year) but maybe slightly underqualified to put a good team like the Celtics over the top. There just aren't a lot of guys like that.

Brad’s defensive schemes exposed him too.

Kemba is good defensively at certain things..taking charges, sticking him on a shooter and acting like a gnat..

But Stevens liked to switch everything - and given the makeup of his team last year (Tatum, Theis, Brown, Hayward..) it’s understandable. But it’s also not Kemba’s fault that when Brad had him switch everything and the small forward he now has to guard posts him up. And that was pretty much an every play thing during the playoffs. (Which, tbh..would have been an easy fix with “everyone but Kemba switches”..

The real question is - how does his knee hold up. I think the Celtics made a mistake because Kemba’s value was at an all time low. See what he looks like with a full off season and time to recover - maybe that knee procedure does help him. Then, either he is a good fit with the Jay’s or he’s now an expiring contract..much more value than what was gotten for him.