Kelsey Plum!!!!!!

[Replicant]

Plum has 618 Field Goal attempts of 1929 Field Goal attempts for the entire team. That works out to 32% not 40-50%(Fake News). Yes she took more shots yesterday but not the most this season. I believe she has about 15 games of over 20 shots per game. She also has 161 rebounds and 148 assists.

You also mentioned that Washington's offense is all Plum. FAKE NEWS UW averages 85ppg (same as UConn) and Plum averages 30ppg. which means she scores 35% of the teams points. Her 148 assists averages out to 4.8 a game. Gabby Williams averages 5.1 assists a game and has many more options on UConn to pass to, then Plum.

First, and I stated it in my prior post...what Plum has accomplished is a thing to marvel at. So you don't have to get your panties in a bunch thinking I'm attempting to diminish her achievement. She's a real talent and the Left Coast Huskies have designed their offense to showcase her talent accordingly. Having made it to last years FF for the first time validates it as the right decision.

I double-checked your stats and indeed she has taken 32% of the teams FGAs for the season and does average 4.8 APG - so the 47% FGA and the zero assists from yesterdays game were an outlier and appears a targeted run at the record. I'm happy for her and as someone else mentioned on the thread already, she seems like a great kid to boot.

You inspired me to check and compare how Plum stacks up against a few other players I've seen this year whose teams showcase them on offense as well: Kelsey Mitchell for OSU, Aja Wilson for SC and Victoria Vivians for Miss State. Mitchell takes 25% of OSU's FGA's (lower than what I perceived). Vivians takes 26% of MSU's. Wilson takes 17% of SC's FGAs (much lower than what I perceived).

Do you think it possible that DT, Maya, Candace or Stewie could have averaged 30+ PPG if they had taken 32% of UConn's or TN's FGAs?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Do you think it possible that DT, Maya, Candace or Stewie could have averaged 30+ PPG if they had taken 32% of UConn's or TN's FGAs?

It's a reasonable question, but those players had very different teammates surrounding them than Plum has had during her career. UConn and Tennessee did not require any player to average 30 pts/game. I read somewhere Plum is taking slightly less shots this year than last year but has increased her scoring average about 5 pts/game. Her overall FG% and 3 point FG% are both up over .100 from last year to this year. That is a startling improvement from someone who was already considered a very good player.

 

[Plebe]

 

[1-of-the-6]

Nope. There's more to being a great basketball player than just scoring points. Where is Jackie Stiles today? Where do people rank her? You almost never hear her name mentioned when talking about the all-time greats.

Have you actually seen her play this season? She's not the slightly pudgy player that she used to be. Plum is much improved in every area. More athletic: quicker, stronger, more stamina. She's a better outside shooter, an amazing finisher, stronger with the ball. She rebounds and defends better. Smarter, even. She's a volume shooter with high efficiency, and you don't run across players like that every day, especially at the guard position.

Plum plays nearly 40 minutes a game, only coming out in the very rare instances that she's in foul trouble or at the very end of blowouts. Because the ball is in her hands so much and she draws so much attention, Plum expends more energy in a game than any player that I've seen, ever. And she no longer seems to get tired as she did in previous seasons.

She plays in the toughest women's basketball conference in the country. Averaged 33 in league games, this despite getting not much help from anyone on her team except the remarkable Chantel Osahor.

She's a much better player than Jackie Stiles ever was. If she's not in the top tier with the all-time greats, she's really close. She could certainly have been a good player at UCONN. She'll do very well in the WNBA, probably playing a bit more off the ball, which she's very capable of doing. Look for her to average 15 or so, with her assist number around five a game.

 

[1-of-the-6]

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

This was one game. Did you watch it? Do you know that the team's only other real scoring threat, Chantal Osahor, fouled out in the middle of the third quarter? So Plum had to take over, and did. Yet you seem to choose to diminish the fact that she was able to do so and fend off a Utah team that wouldn't go away.

 

[LO TRADER]

This was one game. Did you watch it? Do you know that the team's only other real scoring threat, Chantal Osahor, fouled out in the middle of the third quarter? So Plum had to take over, and did. Yet you seem to choose to diminish the fact that she was able to do so and fend off a Utah team that wouldn't go away.

In Plum's senior year (current year) there isn't a team in the NCAA where she would not be a starter and play significant minutes, including UCONN. There isn't a coach in America who wouldn't start Plum.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Well stated. Taurasi elevated 2 teams to National Championships that weren't overflowing with talent, but most of UConn's Titles went to teams that were stocked. Winning a Championship is usually a sign of a very good team rather than individual greatness of one player.

Taking nothing away from Taurasi, whose performance in 2002-2003 was amazing after losing TASK.

But with all due respect, these were the HS rankings for the freshmen (HS Class of 2002), per Blue Star:
Strother: #1
Wolff: #4
Turner: #8
Corkcett: #13

Getting four of the top fifteen players in one class, even as freshmen, is still quite a bit of talent.

The HS Class of 2000, per Blue Star:
Taurasi: #2
M. Valley: #21
Battle: #17
Moore: #43

Putting all of those players on the roster, there was still a ton of elite talent, if you are looking at Top 10/Top 20 players - certainly more than Washington has on its current roster.

Now, not all Top 10 players are created equally. Some classes (2004) are notoriously deep; other classes (2005) are not. If you want to compare the talent to other years at UConn, one could certainly argue there was not the same level of talent, in terms of elite players (which could be your point, and I apologize if I missed it).

 

[ochoopsfan]

Plum has an incredible ability to make a shot from any angle either straight in the hoop or using the backboard.
I would be willing to say that if you put a small decal on the backboard(s), for every time she used them to make a shot, you would not be able to see through the backboard. She has used nearly every part of the backboard.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Taking nothing away from Taurasi, whose performance in 2002-2003 was amazing after losing TASK.

But with all due respect, these were the HS rankings for the freshmen (HS Class of 2002), per Blue Star:
Strother: #1
Wolff: #4
Turner: #8
Corkcett: #13

Didn't realize that class was so highly regarded coming out of HS. My recollection is that there were some nice complimentary players but those teams weren't blessed w/ multiple star players like many other versions of UConn have possessed. I think if you ranked all of UConn's Championship teams, Taurasi's Jr. and Sr. year would probably be at the bottom of the pile.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Plum has an incredible ability to make a shot from any angle either straight in the hoop or using the backboard.
I would be willing to say that if you put a small decal on the backboard(s), for every time she used them to make a shot, you would not be able to see through the backboard. She has used nearly every part of the backboard.

Similarly if you put a marker on the floor to indicate where she shot from, most of the court would be covered.

 

[Orangutan]

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

When you are shooting 54-44-89, you can shoot as much as you want as far as I'm concerned. Most of the basketball world fetishizes scoring too much. Sometimes here we fetishize assists too much.

True, as a point guard, she is the decision maker controlling her team's offense. Washington scored 84 and shot 49.2%, both very solid numbers. Does it really matter that she got no assists given the end result of 84 points and a W? She shot 67.9%. Her teammates shot 32.3%. Seems to me that taking the lion's share of the shots was a good idea, at least on this night.

 

[1-of-the-6]

Just a little Plum trivia.

Kelsey's great grandfather, on her mother Katie's side, is Arthur B. McBride. McBride was the founder and first owner of the Cleveland professional football team. He attempted to hire the legendary Frank Leahy of Notre Dame as the franchise's first head coach but the deal fell through. His second choice was Paul Brown, the team was then named the Browns, they began play in the All-America Conference before joining the NFL, and the rest is history.

McBride owned the football team for five years. He also owned several taxicab companies in the Cleveland area. Many Browns players drove these cabs during the off-season, the term "Taxi Squad" eventually being coined from this practice. Kelsey's mom Katie actually drove a cab for her grandpa when she was sixteen.

 

[Carnac]

A class move by Stiles. She gladly passed the baton to Plum she's been carrying for 16 years. With at least 6 games (3 conference tournament,& 2 NCAA) remaining for Plum, she could very easily break the 3500 point barrier. Someone will no doubt break THAT record too, but I think it will be awhile. Stiles held it for 16 years. Plum will hold it for a minute or two as well. Here's a look at the current list of career leaders in Division 1 WCBB:

[LINK]

 

[1-of-the-6]

A class move by Stiles. She gladly passed the baton to Plum she's been carrying for 16 years. With at least 6 games (3 conference tournament,& 2 NCAA) remaining for Plum, she could very easily break the 3500 point barrier. Someone will no doubt break THAT record too, but I think it will be awhile. Stiles held it for 16 years. Plum will hold it for a minute or two as well. Here's a look at the current list of career leaders in Division 1 WCBB:

I agree. I don't see Kelsey Mitchell as getting that close. After her, I don't know if there's anyone else on the radar.

 

[Carnac]

In case you didn't know - Former Kansas All-American Lynette Woodard was a four-time All-American who scored more points (3,649) than any other collegiate women’s player.

The Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women (AIAW) was founded in 1971 to govern collegiate women's athletics in the United States and to administer national championships (see AIAW Champions). Following a one-year overlap in which both organizations staged women's championships in 1982, the AIAW discontinued operation, and most member schools continued their women's athletics programs under the governance of the NCAA. Woodard graduated in 1981. All of her points were scored under the governance of the AIAW. That is why her record of 3649 is not recognized by the NCAA. A record that has stood for 36 years, and has not come close to being broken. Before Plum, Stiles came the closest, but fell 256 points short.Lynette Woodard is only 5'11" tall.

In 1982 the first Division I NCAA Women’s Basketball Tournament was held. The NCAA was able to offer incentives, such as payment of transportation costs, to participating members, something the AIAW was not able to do. When former AIAW powerhouses like Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, and Old Dominion decided to participate in the NCAA tournament, the AIAW tournament lost much of its appeal and popularity, and folded.

Lynette Woodard

 

[Plebe]

When you are shooting 54-44-89, you can shoot as much as you want as far as I'm concerned. Most of the basketball world fetishizes scoring too much. Sometimes here we fetishize assists too much.

True, as a point guard, she is the decision maker controlling her team's offense. Washington scored 84 and shot 49.2%, both very solid numbers. Does it really matter that she got no assists given the end result of 84 points and a W? She shot 67.9%. Her teammates shot 32.3%. Seems to me that taking the lion's share of the shots was a good idea, at least on this night.

And anyone who watches the game can see that there were numerous instances when Plum passed to an open teammate who then missed the shot. I believe Hannah Johnson missed one open layup right under the basket off a Plum pass. Assist totals do live and die on whether teammates make shots.

In the larger picture, Plum is averaging almost 5 assists per game this year. So that means that she either scores or assists on more than 40 points per game for her team.

 

[nwhoopfan]

And anyone who watches the game can see that there were numerous instances when Plum passed to an open teammate who then missed the shot. I believe Hannah Johnson missed one open layup right under the basket off a Plum pass. Assist totals do live and die on whether teammates make shots.

Romeo is a 38% 3 point shooter on the season. She was 0-6 behind the arc against Utah, and I think most of those misses were off a pass from Plum.

When I watched a recording of the game, Plum made an entry pass to Osahor. Chantel paused briefly, then pivoted and made one dribble and scored. I'm kinda befuddled how that wasn't credited as an assist to Plum, it should have been.

 

[1-of-the-6]

And anyone who watches the game can see that there were numerous instances when Plum passed to an open teammate who then missed the shot. I believe Hannah Johnson missed one open layup right under the basket off a Plum pass. Assist totals do live and die on whether teammates make shots.

In the larger picture, Plum is averaging almost 5 assists per game this year. So that means that she either scores or assists on more than 40 points per game for her team.

Chantal Osahor has had a terrific year. The freshman guard McDonald has come on lately, but she's just a kid. One other starting player, Natalie Romeo who transferred in from Nebraska as a junior, has for some reason not shot the ball really well. Collier, the other starter, and Johnson, are very poor finishers.

So, the offense runs through Plum and Osahor. If Plum didn't have the ball in her hands as much as she does, Washington would be a .500 team. Maybe worse. She does what she does because she pretty much has to, and she's been very efficient this season.

 

[Plebe]

Romeo is a 38% 3 point shooter on the season. She was 0-6 behind the arc against Utah, and I think most of those misses were off a pass from Plum.

When I watched a recording of the game, Plum made an entry pass to Osahor. Chantel paused briefly, then pivoted and made one dribble and scored. I'm kinda befuddled how that wasn't credited as an assist to Plum, it should have been.

Yeah, it's just a judgment call for whoever's keeping the stats. Lots of gray area there. Did the scorer make their own move to generate the bucket, or did the pass do most of the generating for her?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Natalie Romeo who transferred in from Nebraska as a junior, has for some reason not shot the ball really well.

She has to be the most hot and cold player in the country. Numerous scoreless games, but she has also had games where she hit 10 3's and scored 32 and 7 3's and scored 25. You never know what you are going to get from her.

 

[1-of-the-6]

She has to be the most hot and cold player in the country. Numerous scoreless games, but she has also had games where she hit 10 3's and scored 32 and 7 3's and scored 25. You never know what you are going to get from her.

She was much steadier, and better, at Nebraska last season. 104 made threes at around 45%. She's one of my favorite players, a girl who really loves to run but with Washington is very often just stuck in a corner. If they're going to make a run to the Elite Eight or better, they're going to need her to score a little more.

She's also a really good on-ball defender. I heard one of the announcers mention that Coach Neighbors said that over the course of the season whoever Romeo is guarding is shooting 15%!

 

[nwhoopfan]

She's also a really good on-ball defender. I heard one of the announcers mention that Coach Neighbors said that over the course of the season whoever Romeo is guarding is shooting 15%!

I've heard that several times during game broadcasts. Almost unbelievable. I don't really watch her closely during the course of the games, I should pay more attention on some defensive possessions to see her in action.

I didn't see her at Nebraska at all. This year if she's not taking a spot up 3 point shot, you really don't want her shooting. She needs to knock those down though. Hasn't been very reliable since the 32 point explosion against Cal.

 

[Plebe]

She was much steadier, and better, at Nebraska last season. 104 made threes at around 45%. She's one of my favorite players, a girl who really loves to run but with Washington is very often just stuck in a corner. If they're going to make a run to the Elite Eight or better, they're going to need her to score a little more.

She's also a really good on-ball defender. I heard one of the announcers mention that Coach Neighbors said that over the course of the season whoever Romeo is guarding is shooting 15%!

I found it very surprising that she's that effective as a guard defender because she never assumes anything resembling a defensive stance.

 

[OldAlum]

Nice interview with Plum after the UConn game. A great representative of the game. I will root for her unless they play UConn!

 

[MilfordHusky]

In case you didn't know - Former Kansas All-American Lynette Woodard was a four-time All-American who scored more points (3,649) than any other collegiate women’s player.

The Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women (AIAW) was founded in 1971 to govern collegiate women's athletics in the United States and to administer national championships (see AIAW Champions). Following a one-year overlap in which both organizations staged women's championships in 1982, the AIAW discontinued operation, and most member schools continued their women's athletics programs under the governance of the NCAA. Woodard graduated in 1981. All of her points were scored under the governance of the AIAW. That is why her record of 3649 is not recognized by the NCAA. A record that has stood for 36 years, and has not come close to being broken. Before Plum, Stiles came the closest, but fell 256 points short.Lynette Woodard is only 5'11" tall.

In 1982 the first Division I NCAA Women’s Basketball Tournament was held. The NCAA was able to offer incentives, such as payment of transportation costs, to participating members, something the AIAW was not able to do. When former AIAW powerhouses like Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, and Old Dominion decided to participate in the NCAA tournament, the AIAW tournament lost much of its appeal and popularity, and folded.

Lynette Woodard

A few points on Lynette:

She was a 4-time All-American.

She was the first woman to play for the Globetrotters.

Some think she was the best player ever.

She is considered the best female athlete ever at Kansas and on a par with Gale Sayers.