Kelsey Plum!!!!!!

[MSSportsGuy]

She deserves NPOY. The game is more than scoring, but Plum has earned this. When she plays she works her tail off. Washington isn't the greatest team but could be dangerous in the tournament.

 

[Plebe]

Nope. There's more to being a great basketball player than just scoring points. Where is Jackie Stiles today? Where do people rank her? You almost never hear her name mentioned when talking about the all-time greats.

Stiles' pro career was derailed by injuries. That plus the fact that she played for a mid-major — and got virtually no television exposure until the Final Four that she singlehandedly carried an otherwise pedestrian team to — also has the effect of marginalizing her from the discussion.

 

[Plebe]

I was at Walmart today and Jackie Stiles was the clerk in checkout line #8!

Was this an attempt at a sense of humor? If so, I hope I'm misunderstanding the joke.

 

[triaddukefan]

I was at Walmart today and Jackie Stiles was the clerk in checkout line #8!

So you worked as a bag boy on checkout line #8 yesterday? Cool

 

[Plebe]

So you worked as a bag boy on checkout line #8 yesterday? Cool

Now that's what I call a sense of humor.

 

[triaddukefan]

Now that's what I call a sense of humor.

Jackie Stiles was a heck of a college player. I remember guys at work were talking about her and her scoring abilities back in the day. And that's saying alot.... 1) most people don't care too much or know much about Wcbb.. And 2) she did it at an realitively
little known school.

I guess UConn focused people or people who didn't follow Wcbb before 2001 don't really understand how good of a player she was. SWMState's run to the final four was magical. Unfortunately they took out the #1 seeded blue devils in the sweet 16 that year.

 

[iri10]

I guess UConn focused people or people who didn't follow Wcbb before 2001 don't really understand how good of a player she was. SWMState's run to the final four was magical. Unfortunately they took out the #1 seeded blue devils in the sweet 16 that year.

Some viewing entertainment for those not familiar with Stiles...

SWMS vs. Duke
SWMS vs. Washington

 

[triaddukefan]

Some viewing entertainment for those not familiar with Stiles...

SWMS vs. Duke
SWMS vs. Washington

You really didn't have to put that link to the Duke game up did you?

 

[bballnut90]

Mitchell was well ahead of Plum's pace thru her first two seasons. This year Mitchell is scoring less than Plum did as a Jr. And I have a really hard time seeing Mitchell do during her Sr. year what Plum has done. It could be close, but I think Mitchell will come up a little short.

Should be pretty close. If Washington plays 3 games in PAC 12/3 in NCAA and Plum scores 30-35/game, she'll be right around 3600 for her career.

Mitchell is at 2453 with likely 6-7 games left this season. If she plays 7 games and averages 23/game, it'll put her at 2614 going into her senior year. She'd need close to 1000 points to break Plum's record, which means she'd need to average 27-28+ Ppg if she plays 35-37 games next year. Right now it seems unlikely but that isn't a stretch by any means. No one thought Plum would be averaging 30+ with incredible efficiency like she has.

Plus I'm sure there'll be a lot of hoopla about her potentially catching Plum which could mean Mitchell takes more shots than she has this season knowing the record is a possibility.

At any rate, huge congrats to Kelsey. She is having one of the most remarkable seasons I've ever seen.

 

[DaddyChoc]

She has most points. So I was asking about best players. Taurasi, Maya, Parker, Holdsclaw, Miller, and Stewart. Is she in that elite company as a player?

if she doesn't have one of these... she's not even in the discussion

 

[DefenseBB]

if she doesn't have one of these... she's not even in the discussion

What? So then Larry Bird, Clyde Drexel, Elvin Hayes, Elena Delle Donne are all second tier players in the college ranks because they couldn't bring their "pedestrian"^ teams to a title like the aforementioned list of players who had significantly more talent AND better coaching than they did? Sorry but many on this board thread have become myopic on assessing great talent if not in a UConn uniform. We are better than that.

^footnote to Plebe on this phrase as I thought it accurately captures the average talent on these lower profile schools.

HoopsFan21 I hope you take heed to allow others their opinion without being directly contradictory. That's why it's called an opinion...not a fact.

 

[nwhoopfan]

What? So then Larry Bird, Clyde Drexel, Elvin Hayes, Elena Delle Donne are all second tier players in the college ranks because they couldn't bring their "pedestrian"^ teams to a title like the aforementioned list of players who had significantly more talent AND better coaching than they did? Sorry but many on this board thread have become myopic on assessing great talent if not in a UConn uniform. We are better than that.

Well stated. Taurasi elevated 2 teams to National Championships that weren't overflowing with talent, but most of UConn's Titles went to teams that were stocked. Winning a Championship is usually a sign of a very good team rather than individual greatness of one player.

 

[Replicant]

She has most points. So I was asking about best players. Taurasi, Maya, Parker, Holdsclaw, Miller, and Stewart. Is she in that elite company as a player?

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

 

[LO TRADER]

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

Plum takes more shots than anyone on UW's team, but she is not the only scoring threat. Osafor is also a scoring/assist threat all season.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Replicant, did you watch last night's game, or any UW games this season? Their offense is built largely on getting 3 point shots. Osahor, Romeo, Corral and McDonald all take plenty of 3's in addition to Plum. Also Osahor is averaging over 15 points a game. Much of Plum's game is driving and dishing to teammates for those 3's. And Osahor runs the offense almost as much as Plum does. Plum is averaging about 5 assists/game. She had zero last night because her teammates missed every single shot when she dished it to them. I rewatched it late last night, she easily could've had 5 or 6 assists or more if her teammates could've knocked down some shots. They didn't. Osahor was playing well last night, but got in foul trouble and barely played in the 2nd half. W/ Osahor basically not available after halftime and nobody else scoring, Plum had to take the team on her shoulders, and she did. I think you probably looked at a box score and made assumptions, but a box score doesn't come close to telling the whole story of a game.

 

[Plebe]

What? So then Larry Bird, Clyde Drexel, Elvin Hayes, Elena Delle Donne are all second tier players in the college ranks because they couldn't bring their "pedestrian"^ teams to a title like the aforementioned list of players who had significantly more talent AND better coaching than they did? Sorry but many on this board thread have become myopic on assessing great talent if not in a UConn uniform. We are better than that.

^footnote to Plebe on this phrase as I thought it accurately captures the average talent on these lower profile schools.

HoopsFan21 I hope you take heed to allow others their opinion without being directly contradictory. That's why it's called an opinion...not a fact.

We can add Lisa Leslie to this list. And Hakeem Olajuwon. And Dawn Staley. And many others.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? FAKE NEWS Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. FAKE NEWS And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

Plum has 618 Field Goal attempts of 1929 Field Goal attempts for the entire team. That works out to 32% not 40-50%(Fake News). Yes she took more shots yesterday but not the most this season. I believe she has about 15 games of over 20 shots per game. She also has 161 rebounds and 148 assists.

You also mentioned that Washington's offense is all Plum. FAKE NEWS UW averages 85ppg (same as UConn) and Plum averages 30ppg. which means she scores 35% of the teams points. Her 148 assists averages out to 4.8 a game. Gabby Williams averages 5.1 assists a game and has many more options on UConn to pass to, then Plum.

 

[Chong-Master]

Does everyone feel that Plum would definitely be the #1 pick in the WNBA Draft?

 

[Plebe]

Does everyone feel that Plum would definitely be the #1 pick in the WNBA Draft?

Not necessarily, but I'd say definitely top 3.
A couple of the players who might go ahead of her would need to declare early.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Does everyone feel that Plum would definitely be the #1 pick in the WNBA Draft?

I dont follow the W a lot, but whoever drafts first, normally the worst team(unless pick was a trade) do they have better guards than Plum has the potential to be?

 

[Replicant]

Plum has 618 Field Goal attempts of 1929 Field Goal attempts for the entire team. That works out to 32% not 40-50%(Fake News). Yes she took more shots yesterday but not the most this season. I believe she has about 15 games of over 20 shots per game. She also has 161 rebounds and 148 assists.

You also mentioned that Washington's offense is all Plum. FAKE NEWS UW averages 85ppg (same as UConn) and Plum averages 30ppg. which means she scores 35% of the teams points. Her 148 assists averages out to 4.8 a game. Gabby Williams averages 5.1 assists a game and has many more options on UConn to pass to, then Plum.

First, and I stated it in my prior post...what Plum has accomplished is a thing to marvel at. So you don't have to get your panties in a bunch thinking I'm attempting to diminish her achievement. She's a real talent and the Left Coast Huskies have designed their offense to showcase her talent accordingly. Having made it to last years FF for the first time validates it as the right decision.

I double-checked your stats and indeed she has taken 32% of the teams FGAs for the season and does average 4.8 APG - so the 47% FGA and the zero assists from yesterdays game were an outlier and appears a targeted run at the record. I'm happy for her and as someone else mentioned on the thread already, she seems like a great kid to boot.

You inspired me to check and compare how Plum stacks up against a few other players I've seen this year whose teams showcase them on offense as well: Kelsey Mitchell for OSU, Aja Wilson for SC and Victoria Vivians for Miss State. Mitchell takes 25% of OSU's FGA's (lower than what I perceived). Vivians takes 26% of MSU's. Wilson takes 17% of SC's FGAs (much lower than what I perceived).

Do you think it possible that DT, Maya, Candace or Stewie could have averaged 30+ PPG if they had taken 32% of UConn's or TN's FGAs?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Do you think it possible that DT, Maya, Candace or Stewie could have averaged 30+ PPG if they had taken 32% of UConn's or TN's FGAs?

It's a reasonable question, but those players had very different teammates surrounding them than Plum has had during her career. UConn and Tennessee did not require any player to average 30 pts/game. I read somewhere Plum is taking slightly less shots this year than last year but has increased her scoring average about 5 pts/game. Her overall FG% and 3 point FG% are both up over .100 from last year to this year. That is a startling improvement from someone who was already considered a very good player.

 

[Plebe]

 

[1-of-the-6]

Nope. There's more to being a great basketball player than just scoring points. Where is Jackie Stiles today? Where do people rank her? You almost never hear her name mentioned when talking about the all-time greats.

Have you actually seen her play this season? She's not the slightly pudgy player that she used to be. Plum is much improved in every area. More athletic: quicker, stronger, more stamina. She's a better outside shooter, an amazing finisher, stronger with the ball. She rebounds and defends better. Smarter, even. She's a volume shooter with high efficiency, and you don't run across players like that every day, especially at the guard position.

Plum plays nearly 40 minutes a game, only coming out in the very rare instances that she's in foul trouble or at the very end of blowouts. Because the ball is in her hands so much and she draws so much attention, Plum expends more energy in a game than any player that I've seen, ever. And she no longer seems to get tired as she did in previous seasons.

She plays in the toughest women's basketball conference in the country. Averaged 33 in league games, this despite getting not much help from anyone on her team except the remarkable Chantel Osahor.

She's a much better player than Jackie Stiles ever was. If she's not in the top tier with the all-time greats, she's really close. She could certainly have been a good player at UCONN. She'll do very well in the WNBA, probably playing a bit more off the ball, which she's very capable of doing. Look for her to average 15 or so, with her assist number around five a game.

 

[1-of-the-6]

Taking nothing away from Ms. Plum's accomplishment, which is something to marvel at...but my answer would be no.

Is there any doubt that anyone of the all-time greats you listed couldn't have scored/averaged 30+ points a game during their careers if they'd taken 40-50% of their respective teams' FGAs? Is there any doubt that any of the all-time greats you listed would trade one of their NCAA titles for an individual scoring award?

Washington's offense is all Plum, all the time. And it starts with her bringing the ball up as PG and then deciding whether to make a play or distribute the ball.

She took 28 of the team's 59 FGA's (47%) in her 57 point record breaking performance. The total assists for the team was 6 for the entire game and Plum had ZERO assists (as a guard no less)! The rest of the 10 players on the team (that all saw minutes in the game) combined for 27 points.

This was one game. Did you watch it? Do you know that the team's only other real scoring threat, Chantal Osahor, fouled out in the middle of the third quarter? So Plum had to take over, and did. Yet you seem to choose to diminish the fact that she was able to do so and fend off a Utah team that wouldn't go away.

 

[LO TRADER]

This was one game. Did you watch it? Do you know that the team's only other real scoring threat, Chantal Osahor, fouled out in the middle of the third quarter? So Plum had to take over, and did. Yet you seem to choose to diminish the fact that she was able to do so and fend off a Utah team that wouldn't go away.

In Plum's senior year (current year) there isn't a team in the NCAA where she would not be a starter and play significant minutes, including UCONN. There isn't a coach in America who wouldn't start Plum.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Well stated. Taurasi elevated 2 teams to National Championships that weren't overflowing with talent, but most of UConn's Titles went to teams that were stocked. Winning a Championship is usually a sign of a very good team rather than individual greatness of one player.

Taking nothing away from Taurasi, whose performance in 2002-2003 was amazing after losing TASK.

But with all due respect, these were the HS rankings for the freshmen (HS Class of 2002), per Blue Star:
Strother: #1
Wolff: #4
Turner: #8
Corkcett: #13

Getting four of the top fifteen players in one class, even as freshmen, is still quite a bit of talent.

The HS Class of 2000, per Blue Star:
Taurasi: #2
M. Valley: #21
Battle: #17
Moore: #43

Putting all of those players on the roster, there was still a ton of elite talent, if you are looking at Top 10/Top 20 players - certainly more than Washington has on its current roster.

Now, not all Top 10 players are created equally. Some classes (2004) are notoriously deep; other classes (2005) are not. If you want to compare the talent to other years at UConn, one could certainly argue there was not the same level of talent, in terms of elite players (which could be your point, and I apologize if I missed it).

 

[ochoopsfan]

Plum has an incredible ability to make a shot from any angle either straight in the hoop or using the backboard.
I would be willing to say that if you put a small decal on the backboard(s), for every time she used them to make a shot, you would not be able to see through the backboard. She has used nearly every part of the backboard.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Taking nothing away from Taurasi, whose performance in 2002-2003 was amazing after losing TASK.

But with all due respect, these were the HS rankings for the freshmen (HS Class of 2002), per Blue Star:
Strother: #1
Wolff: #4
Turner: #8
Corkcett: #13

Didn't realize that class was so highly regarded coming out of HS. My recollection is that there were some nice complimentary players but those teams weren't blessed w/ multiple star players like many other versions of UConn have possessed. I think if you ranked all of UConn's Championship teams, Taurasi's Jr. and Sr. year would probably be at the bottom of the pile.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Plum has an incredible ability to make a shot from any angle either straight in the hoop or using the backboard.
I would be willing to say that if you put a small decal on the backboard(s), for every time she used them to make a shot, you would not be able to see through the backboard. She has used nearly every part of the backboard.

Similarly if you put a marker on the floor to indicate where she shot from, most of the court would be covered.