K State beats Iowa

[jdote33]

K State is not NC State so the loss should hurt Iowa more than did to UConn.

I actually really like K State. Should be a top 20 team all year. Ayoka Lee is probably a top 10 player in the country. Gabby Gregory started slow but she's a really good super senior. Then they got Sundell who is a very good big guard, and the Glenn twins who are super solid. All those players are upperclassmen and they are like 9 deep. NC State is good but I'm still not sure how good. I think they play Colorado pretty soon so that will be a good test.

Iowa lost to them last year as well. Rankings wise I do think Iowa will take a big hit but practically I don't think it's that bad of a loss. Similar to UConn's it's probably a good wakeup call. Kate Martin and Gabbie Marshall have to find a way to be more impactful.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Side observation. Stuelke has some nice handles for a player her size.

​

 

[Reypl21]

It's not just one game. I think Paige has been better than her for their entire career.

Unless Paige wins a championship it'll be hard for her to top the post-season run Clark had last season. Her run was insane.

 

[Urshurak]

The officiating in this game is the worst I have ever seen. Dear God. Someone get these refs in a room and do some training. It was soooo bad.

 

[southie]

KSU and Jeff Mitte did a great job slowing down Iowa's offense; not smart to get into a track meet with the Hawkeyes. Use the shot clock wisely and make Iowa play defense as much as possible; KSU did that.

 

[LoTrader]

Cremes bracketily busted again as the second 1-seed falls this week

Rankings and Bracketology before the season even begins is a fools errand

 

[Rb335]

Going 2-16 from 3 pt land was not great, and Clark took 32 of the team's 61 shots. That's not sustainable long term. The only other player in double figures was Molly Davis, off the bench.

Credit to Davis because she made some great plays in the 4th quarter. They need that consistently from her.

Clark is going to shoot. That’s a given. Finding more realistic and good looks at the basket would be helpful. Yes she can “shoot from the logo” but not at an efficient rate.

 

[visitingcock]

KSU and Jeff Mitte did a great job slowing down Iowa's offense; not smart to get into a track meet with the Hawkeyes. Use the shot clock wisely and make Iowa play defense as much as possible; KSU did that.

Yes, and I expect to see teams start using that strategy against us.

 

[triaddukefan]

They beat them last year as well (without Lee), so yesterday's result isn't surprising.

 

[bbsamjj]

Both Clark and Bueckers are human.

It was just (checks notes) ONE WEEK ago that Clark had 44pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists and just one turnover against top 10 Virginia Tech.

Using one game they each play as evidence of anything, particularly this early in season, is silly.

 

[Surly1]

Love Paige and watch every Uconn game - but kinda not fair to take the worst game Caitlin plays to do a comparison.
With that said - I do believe Paige is the best point guard on the planet when she is healthy.

Yes, it is an unfair comparison. However, a more accurate contrast is looking at each in terms of efficiency. Paige is the most consistent & efficient 20-pt player in the game. Caitlin's role is different from Paige's in that she is more relied upon to score.

Last year in the tourney, Clark averaged close to 8 turnovers a game. She plays a high risk/high reward style of play. Most times it works. Last night, she was clearly off and still tried to force the game. By contrast, Paige takes what the game brings. On nights when her shot is not dropping, Paige will find other ways to contribute. Caitlin is certainly capable of the same, but it is a work in progress for her. She has to live up to the hype & I think the pressure to deliver got the best of her on a night when her motor was less than normal.

Overall, I'd take Paige because of her overall game and efficient style of play. That's no slight against Clark as I love her game and consider it must watch TV whenever Iowa is on the schedule.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I always find these Paige vs Caitlin debates silly. They play on two completely different teams and have two completely different roles. Look at the supporting cast on each team, it's no surprise why a player would be less efficient with that Iowa roster than the UConn's.

 

[bballnut90]

Everyone got to see firsthand how Paige and Caitlin compare:
Paige 10-15, 2-3 from 3 pt 2-3 FT, 24 pts, 5 red, 1 Assist, 2 TOS, 2 blocks and 6 steals while
Ms. Clark was 9-32, 2-16, 24 pts, 6 reb, 3Assists, 4TOs, 0 block and 0 steals. Both at home, one with a 32 pt win over a ranked team and the other with a loss to an unranked team…you make the conclusion….

I'm sorry but this is just a dumb take. Go a couple games back and compare their opening games and you have:

Clark: 11-17 FG, 4-9 from 3, 2-3 FT, 28 points, 7 rebounds, 10 assists, 0 TO, 2 steals
Bueckers: 3-9 FG, 0-1, 2-2 FT, 8 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 TO, 1 Steal

You don't see Iowa fans cherry pick stats like this to discredit Bueckers or claim that Clark is better. If you want to rag on Clark for having a bad game, by all means feel free to, but making a grand conclusion based off of one random game by each is wildly inaccurate and misleading.

 

[bballnut90]

Yes, it is an unfair comparison. However, a more accurate contrast is looking at each in terms of efficiency. Paige is the most consistent & efficient 20-pt player in the game. Caitlin's role is different from Paige's in that she is more relied upon to score.

Last year in the tourney, Clark averaged close to 8 turnovers a game. She plays a high risk/high reward style of play. Most times it works. Last night, she was clearly off and still tried to force the game. By contrast, Paige takes what the game brings. On nights when her shot is not dropping, Paige will find other ways to contribute. Caitlin is certainly capable of the same, but it is a work in progress for her. She has to live up to the hype & I think the pressure to deliver got the best of her on a night when her motor was less than normal.

Overall, I'd take Paige because of her overall game and efficient style of play. That's no slight against Clark as I love her game and consider it must watch TV whenever Iowa is on the schedule.

Clark averaged 5.8 TO/game in the tournament, not close to 8. She also averaged 10 assists per game, close to a 2:1 A/TO ratio while going up against some of the best competition in the country. For as much as she handles the ball and the offense is focused around her, she's going to have more turnovers. If people discredit her other stats for high usage, then you have to forgive some higher TOs due to usage as well. Last year as a team Iowa was #1 in scoring offense, #1 in FG%, #1 in assists, #6 in 3pt%, and top 5 nationally in A/TO ratio. All of these paint a clearer picture of what your PG is doing and her (and her team's) overall efficiency than isolating her 4.2 TOs/game last year.

Individual player efficiency doesn't create a clear picture either. For example, vs NC State, Paige was efficient and by all accounts had a great game, but the team was still handily beat by NC State. They probably would have benefitted from her taking more shots and playing more aggressively than she did even if it meant her efficiency dropped some.

 

[MSGRET]

I remember Geno stating a couple of years ago that Jeff Mittie is a great coach and he was happy that they played a home and home against them. He has been a Div 1 head coach since 1999 and has only had 2 losing seasons. There are not too many head coaches out there that can say that, let alone beat it like Geno does.

 

[darrell]

Both Clark and Bueckers are human.

It was just (checks notes) ONE WEEK ago that Clark had 44pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists and just one turnover against top 10 Virginia Tech.

Using one game they each play as evidence of anything, particularly this early in season, is silly.

Clark has more often than not had really inefficient games, the stats are just always eye-popping. She hasn’t shot better than 50% from the floor in any of her four seasons at Iowa.

 

[GoChips20]

Clark has more often than not had really inefficient games, the stats are just always eye-popping. She hasn’t shot better than 50% from the floor in any of her four seasons at Iowa.

How many guards really shoot 50+% from the floor though? I know Bueckers has done it and IMO that’s one of the statistics that makes her unique.

 

[DefenseBB]

I'm sorry but this is just a dumb take. Go a couple games back and compare their opening games and you have:

Clark: 11-17 FG, 4-9 from 3, 2-3 FT, 28 points, 7 rebounds, 10 assists, 0 TO, 2 steals
Bueckers: 3-9 FG, 0-1, 2-2 FT, 8 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 TO, 1 Steal

You don't see Iowa fans cherry pick stats like this to discredit Bueckers or claim that Clark is better. If you want to rag on Clark for having a bad game, by all means feel free to, but making a grand conclusion based off of one random game by each is wildly inaccurate and misleading.

Dumb take? Seriously? I find offense to that and while you can disagree, don't be so rude. My whole point was on a "national Televised schedule" you had the two former winners of the Wooden award playing and you could see their direct impact in games before a national audience. So yes, both players will have good and bad games over the course of the season (and @Reypl21 what Caitlin did last year in the NCAA Tournament, has NO BEARING on this year's voting by the writers). With both Paige and Caitlin having good and bad games. What I do know is Paige will have a higher shooting percentage and more steals. Caitlin will average more points, have more assists and more rebounds. UConn will have a stronger schedule (including both conference and OOC games).

I have been a very vocal supporter of Ms. Clark since she came on the scene 3 years ago and felt she earned 1st All-American consideration with her performance over her whole freshman year. I noted numerous times on this forum that just because you said Caitlin was a great basketball player (and she is) does not mean Paige or any other player isn't, you can like both.

Last year however, Caitlin was NOT the best player in the country, Angel Reese was and it wasn't even close. I posted numerous stats based on game scores (points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, turnovers, fouls) showing how Angel was dominating the game with Caitlin a distant second.

My point? Both Angel and Caitlin are polarizing players with their attitudes and demeanor at times. While Caitlin did not demonstrably complain about a lack of foul calls last night, she has been "over the top" about that this year alone. Plus, as you saw in the closing minute of the game last night, when she missed, she was not exactly "Charlie Hustle" on defense. Does that mean she's not a great player? Of course not, but she should be called out by the media that extolls her virtues some much just like they have to Ms. Reese. What's fair is fair.

Paige certainly has her exuberance moments and will "discuss" calls with the refs but as was seen last night when she got hit in the head by Ms. Sellers (I thought the refs call an initial foul on her due the elbow to Paige's head?), Paige was less than pleased and did pull Sellers down to the floor and was assessed a Technical. She was not shown complaining on the TV which did cue to her numerous times during the aftermath. This is in stark contrast to how Ms. Clark has handled similar calls.

If my "take" or perspective irks some of my fine fellow BYers, I am sorry but I am allowed my view which I am qualifying so please feel free to disagree in a respectful manner with evidence supporting your view.

 

[DefenseBB]

The officiating in this game is the worst I have ever seen. Dear God. Someone get these refs in a room and do some training. It was soooo bad.

Which game, KSU-Iowa or UConn-MD?

 

[MSGRET]

Which game, KSU-Iowa or UConn-MD?

To me the worst was UConn-MD with the KSU-Iowa a close second. The NCAA is not doing itself any favors with some of the reffing combinations. There has been a lot of flops that haven't been called like they said they were going to enforce this year, I just wonder when it is going to happen.

 

[Urshurak]

Which game, KSU-Iowa or UConn-MD?

Iowa. UConn game was bad also.

 

[bballnut90]

Dumb take? Seriously? I find offense to that and while you can disagree, don't be so rude. My whole point was on a "national Televised schedule" you had the two former winners of the Wooden award playing and you could see their direct impact in games before a national audience. So yes, both players will have good and bad games over the course of the season (and @Reypl21 what Caitlin did last year in the NCAA Tournament, has NO BEARING on this year's voting by the writers). With both Paige and Caitlin having good and bad games. What I do know is Paige will have a higher shooting percentage and more steals. Caitlin will average more points, have more assists and more rebounds. UConn will have a stronger schedule (including both conference and OOC games).

I have been a very vocal supporter of Ms. Clark since she came on the scene 3 years ago and felt she earned 1st All-American consideration with her performance over her whole freshman year. I noted numerous times on this forum that just because you said Caitlin was a great basketball player (and she is) does not mean Paige or any other player isn't, you can like both.

Last year however, Caitlin was NOT the best player in the country, Angel Reese was and it wasn't even close. I posted numerous stats based on game scores (points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, turnovers, fouls) showing how Angel was dominating the game with Caitlin a distant second.

My point? Both Angel and Caitlin are polarizing players with their attitudes and demeanor at times. While Caitlin did not demonstrably complain about a lack of foul calls last night, she has been "over the top" about that this year alone. Plus, as you saw in the closing minute of the game last night, when she missed, she was not exactly "Charlie Hustle" on defense. Does that mean she's not a great player? Of course not, but she should be called out by the media that extolls her virtues some much just like they have to Ms. Reese. What's fair is fair.

Paige certainly has her exuberance moments and will "discuss" calls with the refs but as was seen last night when she got hit in the head by Ms. Sellers (I thought the refs call an initial foul on her due the elbow to Paige's head?), Paige was less than pleased and did pull Sellers down to the floor and was assessed a Technical. She was not shown complaining on the TV which did cue to her numerous times during the aftermath. This is in stark contrast to how Ms. Clark has handled similar calls.

If my "take" or perspective irks some of my fine fellow BYers, I am sorry but I am allowed my view which I am qualifying so please feel free to disagree in a respectful manner with evidence supporting your view.

Sorry if I was rude but you blatantly cherry picked stats from 1 random game to hijack a thread and turn it into yet another tiresome Clark/Bueckers debate.

 

[Vowelguy]

Both Bueckers and Clark are great players.

Clark had a phenomenal season last year and was the main reason that Iowa pulled off a stunning upset, keeping overwhelming favorite SC from the title.

 

[GoChips20]

The Bueckers/Clark debate is pointless just like the Stewie/A’ja debate. It literally comes down to personal preference. They’re all at the top of their respective leagues and will be for years to come.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Iowa. UConn game was bad also.

Yes, the Iowa game featured at least one, if not 2 of the worst refs in the game. Jesse Dickerson is awful. Don't really like what I've seen of Tim Daily. Felicia Grinter is ok, or has always seemed so.