Juwan Durham news...

[BUConn10]

Ok good enough, why?

I have never really discussed this outside of PM but since you are asking, DHam is explained in my post above. As for guys like Lubin and Enoch, Ollie recruited them and essentially soured on them quickly when they didn't perform as expected and quite literally pushed them out. What the player told me about what Ollie said to Lubin at the end of his first season was quite frankly harsh and pretty obvious why guys would leave, I won't quote it here for obvious reasons. This discussion pre-dated the recent wave of transfers but I believe it to be of similar origin. Ollie recruits these guys because we have open schollies and then when they don't pan out how he wants his personality flips and basically black balls them. Expect something similar to happen to one of Cobb or Carlton after this year. Call this unconfirmed, speculation, get nasty whatever I don't care. This came from the mouth of someone who was at every practice for multiple seasons.

 

[CTBasketball]

I have never really discussed this outside of PM but since you are asking, DHam is explained in my post above. As for guys like Lubin and Enoch, Ollie recruited them and essentially soured on them quickly when they didn't perform as expected and quite literally pushed them out. What the player told me about what Ollie said to Lubin at the end of his first season was quite frankly harsh and pretty obvious why guys would leave, I won't quote it here for obvious reasons. This discussion pre-dated the recent wave of transfers but I believe it to be of similar origin. Ollie recruits these guys because we have open schollies and then when they don't pan out how he wants his personality flips and basically black balls them. Expect something similar to happen to one of Cobb or Carlton after this year. Call this unconfirmed, speculation, get nasty whatever I don't care. This came from the mouth of someone who was at every practice for multiple seasons.

Yeah this is spot on. I can back him up on this, we have the same source.

 

[SouthBayHusky]

Vance Jackson, Daniel Hamilton, JD, and Rakim Lubin and the source is an ex-Husky bench player from the early-Ollie/Hobbs era.

Also Vance Jackson's dad made multiple statements, echoing his sons, that Vance did not see eye to eye with the coach. That's a nice way of saying didn't get along with Ollie. I would also add to the list Enoch, whose father echoed similar sentiments

 

[BUConn10]

Ollie is the captain of his ship. Players have free will and their own state's of mind but this is a competitive market and Ollie needs to be able to attract future players. Being tough is one thing, but roster retention and planning for seasons several years down the line are 100% on Kevin Ollie, he is the general manager and the head coach.

 

[upstater]

Ollie is the captain of his ship. Players have free will and their own state's of mind but this is a competitive market and Ollie needs to be able to attract future players. Being tough is one thing, but roster retention and planning for seasons several years down the line are 100% on Kevin Ollie, he is the general manager and the head coach.

If Ollie is tougher on players than Calhoun, I'll eat my shorts. There has to be a lot more to it than that. Because Ollie is not nearly so rough on them as Calhoun was. I think we have players with fathers who are overly involved here, and they think they know more than the staff.

 

[Stainmaster]

If Ollie is tougher on players than Calhoun, I'll eat my shorts. There has to be a lot more to it than that. Because Ollie is not nearly so rough on them as Calhoun was. I think we have players with fathers who are overly involved here, and they think they know more than the staff.

And fans inclined to give these fathers the benefit of the doubt because of their feelings towards the head coach.

 

[BUConn10]

If Ollie is tougher on players than Calhoun, I'll eat my shorts. There has to be a lot more to it than that. Because Ollie is not nearly so rough on them as Calhoun was. I think we have players with fathers who are overly involved here, and they think they know more than the staff.

Players have always put up with coaches when those coaches were prolific winners. No one plays for an who loses. That's a fact that has never really changed in sports history, not really a new vs old generation thing.

 

[upstater]

Players have always put up with coaches when those coaches were prolific winners. No one plays for an who loses. That's a fact that has never really changed in sports history, not really a new vs old generation thing.

So how do you explain Daniel Hamilton then? Ollie was coming off 3 of 4 good years and a national championship, 4 years of winning records.

Your last statement presents these kids not only as pampered but kind of deranged.

Again, I'm not calling them that. I'm saying there has to be more to it than that. Especially the Daniel Hamilton thing.

I mean, come on. This kids entire family has a track record of leaving early for the NBA. Where did Jordan Hamilton end up? That had absolutely nothing to do with Ollie.

 

[BUConn10]

So how do you explain Daniel Hamilton then? Ollie was coming off 3 of 4 good years and a national championship, 4 years of winning records.

Your last statement presents these kids not only as pampered but kind of deranged.

Again, I'm not calling them that. I'm saying there has to be more to it than that. Especially the Daniel Hamilton thing.

I mean, come on. This kids entire family has a track record of leaving early for the NBA. Where did Jordan Hamilton end up? That had absolutely nothing to do with Ollie.

I specifically explained why I heard Hamilton left above.

 

[upstater]

I specifically explained why I heard Hamilton left above.

But he was one of the guys who didn't get along?

I mean, Ollie filled a scholarship with Lubin. But not with Enoch, not with Vance, not with Durham. We've been hearing about Vance for 3 years here. Ollie was on him a long time. These guys weren't fillers.

Lubin is similar to the many players under Ollie who were told they were probably better off playing elsewhere.

 

[BUConn10]

But he was one of the guys who didn't get along?

I mean, Ollie filled a scholarship with Lubin. But not with Enoch, not with Vance, not with Durham. We've been hearing about Vance for 3 years here. Ollie was on him a long time. These guys weren't fillers.

Lubin is similar to the many players under Ollie who were told they were probably better off playing elsewhere.

I'd say thinking you will improve your game faster in the D-league than staying and potentially making a run in the tournament the next year with your college team expresses the notion that they did not see eye to eye. It doesn't just have to be screaming and being a jerk.

 

[RUSS56]

Lubin is similar to the many players under Ollie who were told they were probably better off playing elsewhere.

If that is true, then Ollie is the wrong guy. Is that what he tells them when he recruits them? A lot of the stuff I read here is pure speculation. It's ok to share ideas, we all do, but when you make statements as if your in the room with them, it is no longer an opinion.

 

[intlzncster]

Maybe, but winning, success and your teammates getting drafted every year makes up for it and then some. Losing doesn't inspire loyalty in a transfer culture.

Plenty of guys transferred out during JCs time. Curtis Kelly is a similarly heralded recruit as Juwan Durham who didn't work out here.

And these days, it is far, far, far more common across the basketball landscape than during JCs era. There aren't any Ray Allens anymore either, those guys are gone after freshman year.

 

[Robertelamin]

I have never really discussed this outside of PM but since you are asking, DHam is explained in my post above. As for guys like Lubin and Enoch, Ollie recruited them and essentially soured on them quickly when they didn't perform as expected and quite literally pushed them out. What the player told me about what Ollie said to Lubin at the end of his first season was quite frankly harsh and pretty obvious why guys would leave, I won't quote it here for obvious reasons. This discussion pre-dated the recent wave of transfers but I believe it to be of similar origin. Ollie recruits these guys because we have open schollies and then when they don't pan out how he wants his personality flips and basically black balls them. Expect something similar to happen to one of Cobb or Carlton after this year. Call this unconfirmed, speculation, get nasty whatever I don't care. This came from the mouth of someone who was at every practice for multiple seasons.

I need chief00 to confirm this.

 

[intlzncster]

Lubin is similar to the many players under Ollie who were told they were probably better off playing elsewhere.

If that is true, then Ollie is the wrong guy. Is that what he tells them when he recruits them? A lot of the stuff I read here is pure speculation. It's ok to share ideas, we all do, but when you make statements as if your in the room with them, it is no longer an opinion.

The list of JCs recruits in that department is a long one. Guys like Trice, that kid who's name escapes me (3pt shooter from Georgia), and as mentioned above Curtis Kelly. There was a laundry list of these guys.

Hell JC didn't see eye to eye with guys like Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, etc. And they moved on.

And as mentioned previously, kids transfer at a far, far greater rate these days. It's just a fact you gotta live with.

I have never really discussed this outside of PM but since you are asking, DHam is explained in my post above. As for guys like Lubin and Enoch, Ollie recruited them and essentially soured on them quickly when they didn't perform as expected and quite literally pushed them out. What the player told me about what Ollie said to Lubin at the end of his first season was quite frankly harsh and pretty obvious why guys would leave, I won't quote it here for obvious reasons. This discussion pre-dated the recent wave of transfers but I believe it to be of similar origin. Ollie recruits these guys because we have open schollies and then when they don't pan out how he wants his personality flips and basically black balls them. Expect something similar to happen to one of Cobb or Carlton after this year. Call this unconfirmed, speculation, get nasty whatever I don't care. This came from the mouth of someone who was at every practice for multiple seasons.

Yeah this is spot on. I can back him up on this, we have the same source.

Again, this is the same thing JC did. In fact, I'm willing to bet this is where Ollie got learned it from. It might not play as well in this era, I don't know.

And JC didn't just develop this later in life when he had the cache. He was always like this. I suspect JC would have a much tougher time if he started out coaching in 2017, than in the 70s.

 

[BUConn10]

The list of JCs recruits in that department is a long one. Guys like Trice, that kid who's name escapes me (3pt shooter from Georgia), and as mentioned above Curtis Kelly. There was a laundry list of these guys.

Hell JC didn't see eye to eye with guys like Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, etc. And they moved on.

And as mentioned previously, kids transfer at a far, far greater rate these days. It's just a fact you gotta live with.






Again, this is the same thing JC did. In fact, I'm willing to be this is where Ollie got it from. It might not play as well in this era, I don't know.

I suspect JC would have a much tougher time if he started out coaching in 2017, than in the 70s.

True, guys left during Calhoun tenure too, but the difference was Calhoun always had a functioning rotation and planned for future seasons properly. Transfers with nothing left to replace them is the exact type of turnover that drains a program's talent pool and creates compounding bad season after season.

 

[RUSS56]

The list of JCs recruits in that department is a long one. Guys like Trice, that kid who's name escapes me (3pt shooter from Georgia), and as mentioned above Curtis Kelly. There was a laundry list of these guys.

Hell JC didn't see eye to eye with guys like Oriakhi, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, etc. And they moved on.

And as mentioned previously, kids transfer at a far, far greater rate these days. It's just a fact you gotta live with.

Absolutely correct, but he was in a tournament somewhere every year, followed a year not in the NCAA Tournament (5 times from the 1st time he made it), with 5 NCAA appearances, 3 Elite 8's. let's not go 14-17, lose half your team, because they are running from you, and put them in the same breath. Ollie is still learning, he may get there, but he isn't there yet. His fate will be determined in the next 2 years, I'm open to give him a chance, he has at least earned that, but things have to change, or sadly he is gone. Two NCAA Tournaments in 5 years isn't making the grade, if that becomes 2 of 6, and then 2 of 7, it's over for him, he knows that. When the going gets tough...the tough get going...I expect him to respond.. he is a fighter, let's see how he recruits his way out of this mess, then we will talk. Ollie can't afford to lose kids at this point of his tenure, Calhoun proved he could, and not skip a beat. Ollie may one day be like that as well, but for now, he is not, so losing kids for him, has created mass hysteria, and rightfully so.

 

[RUSS56]

True, guys left during Calhoun tenure too, but the difference was Calhoun always had a functioning rotation and planned for future seasons properly. Transfers with nothing left to replace them is the exact type of turnover that drains a program's talent pool and creates compounding bad season after season.

BINGO! EXACTLY!

 

[SouthBayHusky]

Plenty of guys transferred out during JCs time. Curtis Kelly is a similarly heralded recruit as Juwan Durham who didn't work out here.

And these days, it is far, far, far more common across the basketball landscape than during JCs era. There aren't any Ray Allens anymore either, those guys are gone after freshman year.

Yes but 4 high recruits in 1 year?

 

[intlzncster]

Absolutely correct, but he was in a tournament somewhere every year, followed a year not in the NCAA Tournament (5 times from the 1st time he made it), with 5 NCAA appearances, 3 Elite 8's. let's not go 14-17, lose half your team, because they are running from you, and put them in the same breath. Ollie is still learning, he may get there, but he isn't there yet. His fate will be determined in the next 2 years, I'm open to give him a chance, he has at least earned that, but things have to change, or sadly he is gone. Two NCAA Tournaments in 5 years isn't making the grade, if that becomes 2 of 6, and then 2 of 7, it's over for him, he knows that. When the going gets tough...the tough get going...I expect him to respond.. he is a fighter, let's see how he recruits his way out of this mess, then we will talk. Ollie can't afford to lose kids at this point of his tenure, Calhoun proved he could, and not skip a beat. Ollie may one day be like that as well, but for now, he is not, so losing kids for him, has created mass hysteria, and rightfully so.

JC did lose half the team when he got them banned from the post season for a year.

I don't have any issue with most of what you posted there. I just have a hard time with the idea that because Ollie hasn't got along with some guys, he's not doing it right. He may have recruited the 'wrong' kids for the program idk. Of the list above, Lubin shouldn't even have been included because he was one of those sanction-grab-anyone-you-can players. Not a high major talent at all.

It's all going to come down to this, can Ollie learn--quickly-- from his mistakes?

 

[upstater]

I'd say thinking you will improve your game faster in the D-league than staying and potentially making a run in the tournament the next year with your college team expresses the notion that they did not see eye to eye. It doesn't just have to be screaming and being a jerk.

That's it? That was the nature of their disagreement?

That's pretty tame.

These are discussions that Calhoun had with players as well. Some kids left earlier than he recommended.

 

[BUConn10]

That's it? That was the nature of their disagreement?

That's pretty tame.

These are discussions that Calhoun had with players as well. Some kids left earlier than he recommended.

To me, our star player thinking he can develop more in the NBA developmental league that only broadcasts its games on YouTube than being the focal point for a promising year at THE University of Connecticut is a bigger concern for my program than how amicable my relationships with my players are. That's a huge area of concern

 

[intlzncster]

True, guys left during Calhoun tenure too, but the difference was Calhoun always had a functioning rotation and planned for future seasons properly. Transfers with nothing left to replace them is the exact type of turnover that drains a program's talent pool and creates compounding bad season after season.

Yes and no. Earlier in JC's career, I think you're right. But for a while, towards the end of his career, JC had guys leave who were supposed to be good without a great backup plan. Some of it is era based I think.

I mean, everyone of Oriakhi's class (trice, darius smith, oriakhi, and Jamal Coombs-McDaniel) left early. JC didn't have a great backup plan in place for that. In fact, this is what left us with the anemic roster that eventually won in 2014. Things worked out, but let's not act like it was planned and executed properly.

 

[upstater]

To me, our star player thinking he can develop more in the NBA developmental league that only broadcasts its games on YouTube than being the focal point for a promising year at THE University of Connecticut is a bigger concern for my program than how amicable my relationships with my players are. That's a huge area of concern

Eh. I chalk it up to the Hamilton family's way of doing things.

This year, the kids are fleeing because of how many games they lost.

Ollie didn't forget how to coach overnight. A combo of bad chemistry, lack of talent, and obviously not enough buy in caused this.

 

[lange10]

Have sources as well to backpack off the recent posts. Ollie has lost the locker room. Hence the full house clear out. The players do not fully trust his abilities to help them develop nor do they think he's that great of a coach. Many won't believe it, but it's true. He builds a relationship with these recruits and gets them to buy in and come but then behind closed doors once they're here he's a different man and the players aren't fond of it.

 

[intlzncster]

Have sources as well to backpack off the recent posts. Ollie has lost the locker room. Hence the full house clear out. The players do not fully trust his abilities to help them develop nor do they think he's that great of a coach. Many won't believe it, but it's true. He builds a relationship with these recruits and gets them to buy in and come but then behind closed doors once they're here he's a different man and the players aren't fond of it.

I'm not trying to be a blue-tinted-glasses guy here, as I think it's obvious we've got some problems here, but there's also the idea that some of it could be on the players' makeup.

Let me ask you: when you describe Hamilton, Durham, and Vance, is one of the first words out of your mouth "toughness"?

And why are there guys who love Ollie then? Boat, Bazz, Giffey, Purvis, Adams? Same question as above with these guys, and one of the first words out of my mouth every time is "toughness".

 

[BUConn10]

I'm not trying to be a blue-tinted-glasses guy here, as I think it's obvious we've got some problems here, but there's also the idea that some of it could be on the players' makeup.

Let me ask you: when you describe Hamilton, Durham, and Vance, is one of the first words out of your mouth "toughness"?

My counter is that roster selection is 100% Ollie's job. Who would you blame if the Lakers signed a team full of Nick Youngs? Would you blame the players, or Mitch Kupchak (pre-Magic Johnson reference).

 

[lange10]

I'm not trying to be a blue-tinted-glasses guy here, as I think it's obvious we've got some problems here, but there's also the idea that some of it could be on the players' makeup.

Let me ask you: when you describe Hamilton, Durham, and Vance, is one of the first words out of your mouth "toughness"?

I get that. But I just want to call attention to those who defend Ollie to the grave that we have some serious problems right now because many still refuse to believe it.

 

[upstater]

Have sources as well to backpack off the recent posts. Ollie has lost the locker room. Hence the full house clear out. The players do not fully trust his abilities to help them develop nor do they think he's that great of a coach. Many won't believe it, but it's true. He builds a relationship with these recruits and gets them to buy in and come but then behind closed doors once they're here he's a different man and the players aren't fond of it.

I wonder if these guys spoke to the kids from 2014, what the talk would be. Talk to Ryan Boatright or Napier--those kids had heart.

 

[intlzncster]

My counter is that roster selection is 100% Ollie's job. Who would you blame if the Lakers signed a team full of Nick Youngs? Would you blame the players, or Mitch Kupchak (pre-Magic Johnson reference).

Absolutely. I'm on board with that. Ollie's got to do a better job of finding his guys. Guys like Adams, Purvis (attitude-wise) et al. This is something he'll have to learn. JC had a knack for finding diamond in the rough guys who were his type of player. Hopefully Ollie can pick up some of this as he goes along.

Problem is, he's got to learn quick.