Josh Carlton moves up 60 spots | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Josh Carlton moves up 60 spots

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King Husky said:
Now ranked at 169.
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Wait til you see the move Dave Wingett makes. He's going dunk his way into the upper 300's
 
FASTEDDY said:
Mau:

Sorry to say but I believe you are wrong in your statement.

Okafor just eeked into the top !00 (something like 98,99 or 100). Shabazz was top 50 in his original class but reclassified and came in a year earlier. It was very well known that he was a Top 50 player in his original class.

Dyson was a Top 50-60 player and was a very good recruit.

Voskuhl was not Top 100 but was around 120.

I'm going off memory here, but rather confident in my statements as I used to really be into recruiting.
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Okafor was not top 100 in any of the major recruiting services at the time
 
JSM1970 said:
BG, Shabazz, Dyson all top 35, Voshukl, Lamb, Okafor top 60
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Link? I mean, Jeremy Lamb didn't even make ESPN's top 100. This time of the year in Emeka's year, he was not even in the top 100. He was a late spring riser. Offered by Rice and Vanderbilt. Wanted to go to Stanford but they wouldn't offer him.

Shabazz was 74. Lamb was at 85. Ben Gordon at 45 (underrated for sure, no AAU). Dyson also in the 40s (on the 247 composite). Voskuhl was an unheralded afterthought--UConn came to see and offer LeBlanc, threw an offer at the tall blond kid.
 
FASTEDDY said:
Mau:

Sorry to say but I believe you are wrong in your statement.

Okafor just eeked into the top !00 (something like 98,99 or 100). Shabazz was top 50 in his original class but reclassified and came in a year earlier. It was very well known that he was a Top 50 player in his original class.

Dyson was a Top 50-60 player and was a very good recruit.

Voskuhl was not Top 100 but was around 120.

I'm going off memory here, but rather confident in my statements as I used to really be into recruiting.
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He said "Top 60" for Okafor and Jake. He said Top 35 for Bazz and Dyson so I was not going just by Top 100 but by what he said they were.
 
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Matrim55 said:
A few years back we recruited a kid by the name of Kyle Kuzma, a PF who was ranked 180th on the 247 list. Lost him to Utah, and he had a nothing first year - 3.3 points, 1.8 rebounds in 8 MPG.

Last year he did 11/6 and this year he's putting up 15/10/3 with some early entry NBA Draft buzz. Imagine if we'd gotten him instead of having to settle for Lubin.

The point is: Once you get outside the top 40 or so, all of these guys take a ton of faith and patience and development, and in order to achieve some stability we'll have to have fringe 4-stars who develop over the course of 3 or 4 years as the foundation of the team. Ollie was perhaps a little slow learning this lesson and concentrated on one high-ranking guy (Abu) and, in the process, missed out on a pair of lower ranked PFs from 2014 (Kuzman & Colson) who are now better players. And we are now suffering as a result.

There is no guarantee, of course, that Carleton will develop as well as Kuzma or Colson, but every roster of ours from here on out should have 4-5 guys in that recruiting range, all steadily improving over the course of their respective careers.
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We used to complement JC for recognizing player potential ahead of the recruiting sites. Of course people tend to forget that JC received substantial criticism for getting players lower on recruiting sites, people would defend those recruitments as necessary for having some four year players or players coming off the bench. It wasn't until after the second championship most of these star gazers and "what's in it for me now" people appeared so obviously silly they quieted down.

You can see how quickly these individuals reappear to only point out the negative of recruiting when things are going badly. It's convenient to ignore or underweight the significance of KO having to cut Zach Brown loose. They have it in their heads that all KO has to do is wave a UConn magic wand to get anyone. JC never had that luxury. Most coaches don't. They have to cultivate relationships with the players. KO had Zach Brown locked up resulting in a discontinuation of recruiting other bigs. And Durham will scare off a lot of recruits because there is no way of knowing if he will regain his previous abilities.

It's so easy to criticize and make ourselves feel self important. All we need is a kernel of validity and off we run. And in some cases, thinking of the Stanley Robinson poster, we don't even need a kernel.
 
I missed Dyson by 8 spots, can't find Okafor or Jake, I recall them being higher when they enrolled maybe I missed on them. The 'Bazz was from what a UConn coach told me, they said he was potentially top 25 in his class but reclassified late

If you look back through the JC years we rarely had a kid outside the top 75 or top 100

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects

mauconnfan said:
He said "Top 60" for Okafor and Jake. He said Top 35 for Bazz and Dyson so I was not going just by Top 100 but by what he said they were.
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It's interesting the 4-5 is really the area we have rarely gotten top 50 players and have had several work out and others not as much

1-2-3 we have consistently recruited top 50 players and continue to

fleudslipcon said:
We used to complement JC for recognizing player potential ahead of the recruiting sites. Of course people tend to forget that JC received substantial criticism for getting players lower on recruiting sites, people would defend those recruitments as necessary for having some four year players or players coming off the bench. It wasn't until after the second championship most of these star gazers and "what's in it for me now" people appeared so obviously silly they quieted down.

You can see how quickly these individuals reappear to only point out the negative of recruiting when things are going badly. It's convenient to ignore or underweight the significance of KO having to cut Zach Brown loose. They have it in their heads that all KO has to do is wave a UConn magic wand to get anyone. JC never had that luxury. Most coaches don't. They have to cultivate relationships with the players. KO had Zach Brown locked up resulting in a discontinuation of recruiting other bigs. And Durham will scare off a lot of recruits because there is no way of knowing if he will regain his previous abilities.

It's so easy to criticize and make ourselves feel self important. All we need is a kernel of validity and off we run. And in some cases, thinking of the Stanley Robinson poster, we don't even need a kernel.
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JSM1970 said:
I missed Dyson by 8 spots, can't find Okafor or Jake, I recall them being higher when they enrolled maybe I missed on them. The 'Bazz was from what a UConn coach told me, they said he was potentially top 25 in his class but reclassified late

If you look back through the JC years we rarely had a kid outside the top 75 or top 100

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects
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This is just patently untrue. Name me a year and I'll find at least one kid ranked outside the top 75. You are just making stuff up now to support your ridiculous narrative. Have you ever heard of the theory of holes? When you're in one, you should stop digging.
 
JSM1970 said:
I missed Dyson by 8 spots, can't find Okafor or Jake, I recall them being higher when they enrolled maybe I missed on them. The 'Bazz was from what a UConn coach told me, they said he was potentially top 25 in his class but reclassified late

If you look back through the JC years we rarely had a kid outside the top 75 or top 100

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects
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You're wrong.
 
uconngb said:
This is just patently untrue. Name me a year and I'll find at least one kid ranked outside the top 75. You are just making stuff up now to support your ridiculous narrative. Have you ever heard of the theory of holes? When you're in one, you should stop digging.
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Yeah, we always had kids outside the 75-100. I'll start in 2003 simply because that is the earliest composite that 247 lists:

2003: Hilton Armstrong, Justin Brown, Shamon Tooles, Mike Hayes, Chad Wise, Marcus White.

That's 6 kids from the previous 4 years!

2005: Antonio Kellogg, Ryan Thompson
2006: Craig Austrie, Rob Garrison
2007: Ben Eaves, Gavin Edwards, Jon Mandeldove, Hasheem Thabeet, Doug Wiggins (75-100)
2008: Donnell Beverly
2009: Scottie Haralson, Charles Okwandu
2010: Darius Smith, Jamal Trice, Ater Majok
2011: Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander, Enosch Wolf

That's 10 years: 24 kids not counting Wiggins.
 
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JSM1970 said:
I missed Dyson by 8 spots, can't find Okafor or Jake, I recall them being higher when they enrolled maybe I missed on them. The 'Bazz was from what a UConn coach told me, they said he was potentially top 25 in his class but reclassified late

If you look back through the JC years we rarely had a kid outside the top 75 or top 100

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects
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Nope.

Ajou Deng
Justin Brown
Robert Swain
Shamon Tooles
Chad Wise
Emeka Okafor
Marcus White
Hilton Armstrong
Josh Boone
Antonio Kellogg
Craig Austrie
Robert Garrison
Johnathan Mandeldove
Gaving Edwards
Ben Eaves
Donnell Beverly
Scottie Haralson
Darius Smith
Jamal Trice
Jeremy Lamb
Enosch Wolf
Tyler Olander
Niels Giffey
Michael Bradley

All guys outside of the top 75 in composite rankings dating back to 98.
 
upstater said:
Yeah, we always had kids outside the 75-100. I'll start in 2003 simply because that is the earliest composite that 247 lists:

2003: Hilton Armstrong, Justin Brown, Shamon Tooles, Mike Hayes, Chad Wise, Marcus White.

That's 6 kids from the previous 4 years!

2005: Antonio Kellogg, Ryan Thompson
2006: Craig Austrie, Rob Garrison
2007: Ben Eaves, Gavin Edwards, Jon Mandeldove, Hasheem Thabeet, Doug Wiggins (75-100)
2008: Donnell Beverly
2009: Scottie Haralson, Charles Okwandu
2010: Darius Smith, Jamal Trice, Ater Majok
2011: Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander, Enosch Wolf

That's 10 years: 24 kids not counting Wiggins.
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I think JSM meant BESIDES those guys we never had guys outside the top 75
 
Good point, the thing that's interesting when you click through the Rivals years that there tends to be a big difference between 3 vs. 4-5 stars and the success, more than a number threshold

What determines the star #, it's not solely based on your ranking? Do they score the player on various criteria and then the number determines the star ranking such as if you are > 87 = 4 > 92 =5?

superjohn said:
You're wrong.
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Thabeet was #39 in Scout, Majok was a 5 star player

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects

See my other post, I think the star rankings are more indicative than ratings #

Also, Wiggins was 4 stars, #84, your estimation was right on

Rivals.com

Most of UConn's non-star, complimentary players were 3 stars or < and the stars 4-5s. Kind of Captain Obvious, but interesting to look at historically


upstater said:
Yeah, we always had kids outside the 75-100. I'll start in 2003 simply because that is the earliest composite that 247 lists:

2003: Hilton Armstrong, Justin Brown, Shamon Tooles, Mike Hayes, Chad Wise, Marcus White.

That's 6 kids from the previous 4 years!

2005: Antonio Kellogg, Ryan Thompson
2006: Craig Austrie, Rob Garrison
2007: Ben Eaves, Gavin Edwards, Jon Mandeldove, Hasheem Thabeet, Doug Wiggins (75-100)
2008: Donnell Beverly
2009: Scottie Haralson, Charles Okwandu
2010: Darius Smith, Jamal Trice, Ater Majok
2011: Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander, Enosch Wolf

That's 10 years: 24 kids not counting Wiggins.
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JSM1970 said:
Thabeet was #39 in Scout, Majok was a 5 star player

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects

See my other post, I think the star rankings are more indicative than ratings #

Also, Wiggins was 4 stars, #84, your estimation was right on

Rivals.com

Most of UConn's non-star, complimentary players were 3 stars or < and the stars 4-5s. Kind of Captain Obvious, but interesting to look at historically
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Where is the part where you say "I was completely WRONG"?
 
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JSM1970 said:
Thabeet was #39 in Scout, Majok was a 5 star player

2006 Basketball Recruiting Prospects

See my other post, I think the star rankings are more indicative than ratings #

Also, Wiggins was 4 stars, #84, your estimation was right on

Rivals.com

Most of UConn's non-star, complimentary players were 3 stars or < and the stars 4-5s. Kind of Captain Obvious, but interesting to look at historically
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I was using 247's composite. Both were not listed. But yeah, given all the services out there, we can be off on some players.

That being said, you wrote we rarely had these players, whereas the truth is that we MOSTLY had these players.
 
Just for context: North Carolina have 3 guys in their 2017 class ranked below Carleton, and one from 2016. Villanova has averaged one per year lower than Carleton this decade.

Remind me whether or not they've been crap teams the last few seasons?
 
fleudslipcon said:
Weird but somehow JSM is on my ignore list and I didn't put him there. Haven't put anyone for that matter. Any guesses to how this happened.

I'm thinking divine intervention.
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Same with me. Higher powers must've done us a favor
 
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Matrim55 said:
Just for context: North Carolina have 3 guys in their 2017 class ranked below Carleton, and one from 2016. Villanova has averaged one per year lower than Carleton this decade.

Remind me whether or not they've been crap teams the last few seasons?
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Matrim55 said:
Just for context: North Carolina have 3 guys in their 2017 class ranked below Carleton, and one from 2016. Villanova has averaged one per year lower than Carleton this decade.

Remind me whether or not they've been crap teams the last few seasons?
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Exactly. It's a cyclic process. Last years recruiting class was 4 top 100s and 1 top 150, which was solid across the board. The next year being more top heavy with MAL and presumedly Diallo, complemented by two 4-year big men that fit the program.
 
I had to go look at that, you're right, I was surprised to see being UNC and coming off FF.

In looking at this closer it seems like star rankings are a bigger deal. 4-5 guys are the studs, 3 and lower are most complimentary players. A few exceptions here and there but pretty consistent.

Matrim55 said:
Just for context: North Carolina have 3 guys in their 2017 class ranked below Carleton, and one from 2016. Villanova has averaged one per year lower than Carleton this decade.

Remind me whether or not they've been crap teams the last few seasons?
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