John A.: UConn - Duke: It's more than a game

[pap49cba]

“We couldn’t overcome the loss to Chelsea Gray [knee injury] last year and lost in the Elite Eight. But we’ve played against Maya Moore {UConn], Brittney Griner [Baylor] and Chiney Ogwumike [Stanford] in the Elite Eight over the last few years. I am proud of my players. I know people here are waiting for us to win a national championship. We will. It will come. But it’s a process.”

But you figure this is going to be a big night for Duke. McCallie wants to win, likely needs to win for a number of reasons we can only speculate about.

LINK

 

[Wonkster]

"... I know people here are waiting for us to win a national championship. We will. It will come. But it’s a process.”

And so far a slow, painful process.

 

[winlots]

Another good piece by MR. A. In it, he Duke coach talks about one of her main recruiting planks: something to the effect that UCONN has had a lot of success but the Dookies want kids who want to make their OWN history....."We want kids like that," she says. And Duke kids are supposed to be bright?? And they'd go for that pitch??? I'd say that Lobo and Walters and Taurasi and Cash and Moore etc made PLENTY of their OWN history.........eh?

 

[Wonkster]

.
Good luck.

The Dookies will be on break, so I think you can forget about the Cameron Crazies raising much of a row. Geno won't even have to bother to buy them pizza.

 

[jsloanjr]

You can tell that JPM is pressing to win this game and that has to have a negative affect on her players. You will know in the 1st 10 + minutes.............UCONN closes out the 1st half strong and starts the 2nd half strong.........Will that be enough to take the heart out of this Duke team. Duke has some elite players that have struggled in pressure games......Time will tell.

 

[CTyankee]

It will be a great game... And both coaches will learn alot about their teams... And will be able to think about adjustments tor the NCAAs...

If we can stay healthy and out of foul trouble, we will prevail... Go Huskies!!!

 

[Tonyc]

Duke couldn't overcome the loss of some of their great players UConn has and for a stretch of 3 games against ranked teams. With KML and MTuck UConn wins by a lot. Without KML and MTuck UConn will have to be on. Not necessarily firing on all cylinders but firing on most cylinders. Defense defense and defense will win it.

 

[Phil]

Another good piece by MR. A. In it, he Duke coach talks about one of her main recruiting planks: something to the effect that UCONN has had a lot of success but the Dookies want kids who want to make their OWN history....."We want kids like that," she says. And Duke kids are supposed to be bright?? And they'd go for that pitch??? I'd say that Lobo and Walters and Taurasi and Cash and Moore etc made PLENTY of their OWN history.........eh?

I see nothing wrong with the pitch. How would you pitch it?

 

[Buzzyboy]

It will be a great game... And both coaches will learn alot about their teams... And will be able to think about adjustments tor the NCAAs...

If we can stay healthy and out of foul trouble, we will prevail... Go Huskies!!!

I can't be too sure. There were a couple of times in the past few years where UConn and Duke were undefeated and there was talk of a close competitive game that never happened. It was blowout time. They had game day a few years ago at Storrs and UConn jumped out to something like a 30 point half time lead so it doesn't necessarily compute that this game will be any different. If we have Morgan and KML playing and they are reasonably up to par, I doubt it'll be competitive. Just my opinion.

 

[winlots]

I see nothing wrong with the pitch. How would you pitch it?

PHIL: As a self-avowed fan of yours, I reply with substantial respect. You pose a solid and interesting question.

Taking your first sentence first, I repeat that there are great numbers of kids who came to UCONN who have very clearly made history of their own on top of the history here that preceded them. I listed Lobo in my post,, and obviously one could argue that she was one who helped MAKE the history that the Duke coach references at UCONN. So, I'll substitute Maria C. (one could pick many others) who came much later. Seems to me she made some history here. Would you disagree with that (a serious, not a challenging, question)?

In contrast to your view, I see her (Duke coach) pitch as being akin to setting up a straw man.....she presents a false choice that lacks the support of logic. It seems somewhat insipid and desperate to me. One can join this great program in Storrs and still make a very clear history during her four years. .

With regard to your second sentence re how would I pitch it: My first pitch would be over the backstop.....ala Ryne Duren. My second would be high and tight. Third low and outside. Keen fellow that you are, you will promptly discern that I have absolutely no inclination to help " smart" old Duke recruit kids who might be able to beat us. (But, I will repeat something I said back in time in another thread. I've known some Duke kids and some UCONN kids, and I haven't seen anything to make me challenge our coach's famous statement to the effect that there are as many Dookies waiting tables as there are Huskies doing so. As I recall, he issued this in the context of the Hunter saga.....a gal whose parents apparently encouraged her toward Duke, but who soon left there to come make history with us, her own personal first choice.)

As an aside, I also know a whole lot of wait staff, and the vast majority of them are sharp and having a pretty darn nice life.

 

[John Glass]

anyone who saw Gray play against Oklahoma could see she is not 100% yet. I doubt Duke comes within 12 points

 

[Huskyfaninsd]

I think one of the problems with McCallie's pitch is that she could be attracting players that don't want to play team ball. Players that choose Duke to make history could be players that seek the spotlight, only care about the themselves, etc. I am not saying that Duke is made up of such players, but it could lead to this...

 

[bschwartz]

I am no one to question Geno, but I'd be very reluctant to play KML or Tuck. Duke may not be the best first game back to test your sea legs. Secondly, if they don't play and Duke should win, they couldn't say they beat the Huskies full strength. That means nothing now, but could in the Final Four.

I could be totally off base and maybe the young horses just need to run. Either way, I am excited.

 

[bschwartz]

I question how much the history angle is important to most kids today. I think they tend to respect when they are told the deal like it is and without a sales pitch. Geno excels at keeping real. If JM, is thinking about angles, she may be behind before she begins.

 

[Wally East]

I'd say that Lobo and Walters and Taurasi and Cash and Moore etc

Pardon me, but just "Gino" bugs some, "Walters" bugs me. It's [Kara] "Wolters" (because, yes, Kiersten Walters).

Thank you. Carry on.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

PHIL: As a self-avowed fan of yours, I reply with substantial respect. You pose a solid and interesting question.

Taking your first sentence first, I repeat that there are great numbers of kids who came to UCONN who have very clearly made history of their own on top of the history here that preceded them. I listed Lobo in my post,, and obviously one could argue that she was one who helped MAKE the history that the Duke coach references at UCONN. So, I'll substitute Maria C. (one could pick many others) who came much later. Seems to me she made some history here. Would you disagree with that (a serious, not a challenging, question)?

In contrast to your view, I see her (Duke coach) pitch as being akin to setting up a straw man.....she presents a false choice that lacks the support of logic. It seems somewhat insipid and desperate to me. One can join this great program in Storrs and still make a very clear history during her four years. .

.

She isn't only recruiting against UConn. And your statement about UConn is correct.

But I disagree with your assessment of the pitch. It isn't original, its old as the hills. Sherri Coale has used it, Vivian has used it, who knows how many have used it, you only find out when some player mentions it. It is a valid pitch - there are players who want to create a tradition and would love to be the first to lead a team to its first championship. And yes, I know some of the schools it is unlikely, but if the player doesn't think they can make a difference, why would the coach want them???

And the concept someone suggested that this would somehow attract selfish players. Huh? We are talking about it being directed to top players. They would be the leaders, quite without being selfish.

 

[UcMiami]

Hey - you have a very few teams that can recruit by saying ... come and be part of our tradition of excellence and see if you too can win multiple championships - as in two over the last twenty years and one over the last 6. There are a few more that can say ... come and help us win another championship as in another 3 over the last 10 years. Everyone else is left with saying come and help us win our first, or our first in the last decade. There are only 6 active coaches that have every won a NC (Hatchell being inactive at the moment) - how else are the rest supposed to recruit?

 

[hjoerring]

I think Geno will make a big decision base on his relationship with McCallie. If they are friendly, he might want to help her hold her job by not getting blown out at home (better to lose in March). If she is a pain then he will unload. A big lost to Uconn plus ND (?) and UK(?) might bring Gail G. back again (unless there are other top coaches waiting. So yes, for Duke it matters a lot- who are the players that suit-up for Uconn. And what was the score. A solid loss with 2 key players on the bench or in minor supporting role, isn't good. A close game with us- but a loss, will give them room to spin it as they would like. A bfor them with KML, MT and a big in foul trouble will have talk about the 'monkey off their back' (here is that unfortunate phrase again!).

 

[triaddukefan]

I think Geno will make a big decision base on his relationship with McCallie. If they are friendly, he might want to help her hold her job by not getting blown out at home (better to lose in March). If she is a pain then he will unload. A big lost to Uconn plus ND (?) and UK(?) might bring Gail G. back again (unless there are other top coaches waiting. So yes, for Duke it matters a lot- who are the players that suit-up for Uconn. And what was the score. A solid loss with 2 key players on the bench or in minor supporting role, isn't good. A close game with us- but a loss, will give them room to spin it as they would like. A bfor them with KML, MT and a big in foul trouble will have talk about the 'monkey off their back' (here is that unfortunate phrase again!).

Ridiculous. McCallie is in no danger of losing her job anytime soon. Concerning Coach G, you'll see Beyonce and I sitting courtside at a Charlotte Bobcat Hornet game before you'll see Gail G. roam the sidelines again at Cameron

 

[Icebear]

I am no one to question Geno, but I'd be very reluctant to play KML or Tuck. Duke may not be the best first game back to test your sea legs. Secondly, if they don't play and Duke should win, they couldn't say they beat the Huskies full strength. That means nothing now, but could in the Final Four.

I could be totally off base and maybe the young horses just need to run. Either way, I am excited.

Your concern is an impossible one to answer since none of us sees the kids day to day in practice. Geno and the training staff see these kids every day and know the short term means very little. They will not risk the long term goals for some immediate gratification. If he puts KML, Morgam, and Kiah on the court it will because the trainers and medical staff say they are ready and safe to go, nothing less. Does this mean they can't be injured again, of course not. That, however, is just the rub of the game.

 

[Zorro]

It would seem to me that the emergence of the European and now Asian women's leagues has probably given the UConn coaches a major boost in their recruiting efforts. While the WNBA was something to look forward to for those willing to do the work necessary to develop their skills, it was not going to make them rotten rich. I am sure that all these kids are aware of the kind of bucks that Sue and D and the others who are playing in these leagues are making, and the world travel and novel experiences that come with it. So, if I am a, say, Asia Durr or a Kalani Brown or a KLS, I think that one of my main concerns would be attending a school where the coaches would do the best job of helping me to develop the skills I have. The payoff is not only in self-satisfaction and the pleasures of winning NCs, but also in cold, hard cash.

They have only to look at the relative developments of, say, Stef Dolson vs. Samarie Walker or Elizabeth Williams, or of Bria Hartley vs. Meghan Simmons, or Tina Charles vs. Kia Vaughn, or you name it. No coaching staff even approaches the UConn staff in terms of development of a player's natural ability. Other coaching staffs seem to tend to set up a system, recruit the best players they can, and then train the players to suit that system. The UConn staff is constantly modifying and adjusting their system to make the best use of the players they have and their natural skills, PLUS constantly forcing them to work on those facets of their games that are not as well-developed as the others, the result being that when they graduate they are about as good as they can possibly be, in all aspects of the game. AND, they are very likely to have at least a couple of pretty gold rings.

A kid wanting only to have a good time and play her game her way (and there is nothing wrong with that, it is a personal choice and not necessarily a bad one for a particular individual) might very well be better off at another school with coaches who are more lenient. But the really ambitious and motivated kid will look at Bria or Mo or Stef or BB and say "Hey; THAT is the way I want to play basketball", and her choice will be pretty easy. I think that Durr and Brown seem to be pretty smart and to have pretty smart families. I like our chances.

 

[Phil]

Winlots, thanks for the kind words.

I think we aren't that far apart.

When Joanna says to a recruit, "you can make history HERE", there's definitely an implied "You won't be making history there, you'll just be another cog in the machine". I read your response as challenging that inference, because you believe (as I believe) that one can come to UConn and write history.

By definition, we will never again have a recruit who will be part of the school's first National Championship. But that doesn't mean there's no history to be written. A number of schools have an NC, but only one can have the most. In the near future, we may be able to challenge, not just women's basketball records, but all basketball records. Every player that is a part of every National Champion is a part of the history record, but within that history, there already is a special place for UConn, and a recruit can help make that place even more special. A recruit coming in can help build a legacy that will literally last forever.

But while I think there is a strong counter to Joannne's message, I think it is unfair to assume that a recruit would see it as bogus. It is correct to say that bringing a National Championship to Duke would be a special place in Duke history, and not one that could be replicated at UConn. The key is whether that unique opportunity is viewed as better than or not as good as the special place in the history of all of basketball that is possible at UConn.

I think you and i both agree that the potential place in history at UConn is a better option, but I fully understand Joanne's pitch, and, if I were in her position, I'd make it too.

 

[Sonny44]

I am no one to question Geno, but I'd be very reluctant to play KML or Tuck. Duke may not be the best first game back to test your sea legs. Secondly, if they don't play and Duke should win, they couldn't say they beat the Huskies full strength. That means nothing now, but could in the Final Four.

I could be totally off base and maybe the young horses just need to run. Either way, I am excited.

I doubt that Geno would jockey himself into a position where he has an excuse for losing.

 

[Icebear]

"If you come to UCONN you will help create a history that will very likely never be matched."

 

[ScarlettB]

It would seem to me that the emergence of the European and now Asian women's leagues has probably given the UConn coaches a major boost in their recruiting efforts. While the WNBA was something to look forward to for those willing to do the work necessary to develop their skills, it was not going to make them rotten rich. I am sure that all these kids are aware of the kind of bucks that Sue and D and the others who are playing in these leagues are making, and the world travel and novel experiences that come with it. So, if I am a, say, Asia Durr or a Kalani Brown or a KLS, I think that one of my main concerns would be attending a school where the coaches would do the best job of helping me to develop the skills I have. The payoff is not only in self-satisfaction and the pleasures of winning NCs, but also in cold, hard cash.

They have only to look at the relative developments of, say, Stef Dolson vs. Samarie Walker or Elizabeth Williams, or of Bria Hartley vs. Meghan Simmons, or Tina Charles vs. Kia Vaughn, or you name it. No coaching staff even approaches the UConn staff in terms of development of a player's natural ability. Other coaching staffs seem to tend to set up a system, recruit the best players they can, and then train the players to suit that system. The UConn staff is constantly modifying and adjusting their system to make the best use of the players they have and their natural skills, PLUS constantly forcing them to work on those facets of their games that are not as well-developed as the others, the result being that when they graduate they are about as good as they can possibly be, in all aspects of the game. AND, they are very likely to have at least a couple of pretty gold rings.

A kid wanting only to have a good time and play her game her way (and there is nothing wrong with that, it is a personal choice and not necessarily a bad one for a particular individual) might very well be better off at another school with coaches who are more lenient. But the really ambitious and motivated kid will look at Bria or Mo or Stef or BB and say "Hey; THAT is the way I want to play basketball", and her choice will be pretty easy. I think that Durr and Brown seem to be pretty smart and to have pretty smart families. I like our chances.

I disagree with some of your player development comparisons as proving that only the UConn staff develops their players to the best of their abilities. For example, comparing the development of Tina Charles to Kia Vaughn. Tina was the national player of the year coming out of high school. Kia was not. Kia's freshman season at RU, she helped lead them to a 16-0 Big East regular season record and the Big East Championship (both regular season and Tournament). RU won the Big East Tournament Championship in her sophomore season too and Kia helped her team reach the NCAA Championship game. Her junior season RU lost in the Elite 8 to UConn, in a tough game that RU led at the half. Kia did not have a great senior season, but still was selected 8th overall in the 2009 WNBA draft. She also played well against UConn, even in her senior year. RU lost those games, but Kia outplayed Tina in both games. I don't dispute that Tina has accomplished more in her career, but based on how she played prior to coming to UConn, she should have. I don't believe Kia would have become a better player than Tina just by playing for Geno rather than Vivian.
I also don't think Elizabeth William's development has suffered by her attending Duke. I don't think it is fair to compare anyone to Stefanie Dolson. She lost so much weight and transformed her body after her sophomore season. I'm not sure how much of that was due to coaching versus personal desire to be the best she could be. Maybe it was due to Geno's influence, but you really need to have a certain mindset to be able to achieve the results she did. Elizabeth didn't need to make such a drastic change to play at her best.