Joanne P. McCallie: I Am Not Buying

[CocoHusky]

She either has something personal on the AD or the Prez of Duke or they see something they like--it's not her contract those things are bought out regularly

I can't think of the last WCBB contract that was bought out. I have heard of many not being renewed but none bough out. Sadly most schools don't value the WCBB program enough to consider a buy out no matter how small the salary.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I can't think of the last WCBB contract that was bought out. I have heard of many not being renewed but none bough out. Sadly most schools don't value the WCBB program enough to consider a buy out no matter how small the salary.

Or they do not have the money to spend six figures to buy out a contract that is the most expensive (outside of football and men's basketball) in a non-revenue sport that will likely never make money for the institute the way football and men's basketball can/will.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

The Duke offense is very basic inside first and to put a more sophisticated one in that allows
you to compete against the best takes a ton of time.

Her total compensation package is in excess of $800,000 per year.

Surely she has the time to implement a more sophisticated offense, considering what she is earning...and the fact that it is her *job* to do so.

 

[mr006]

Comparing Gail Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with McCallie's eight years at Duke produces the following (information from pages 162-173 of the 2014-15 Media Guide and the 2014-2015 Schedule/Results)

Overall record:
Goestenkors: 220-25 (89.79 percent)
McCallie: 225-53 (80.94 percent)

ACC record:
Goestenkors: 98-8 (92.45 percent)
McCallie: 100-22 (81.97 percent)

NCAA record:
Goestenkors: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 18-8 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, six years at least making the Sweet 16, two second round losses

Against Opponents Ranked #1 or #2:
Goestenkors: 5-7 (41.67 percent)
McCallie: 0-18 (00.00 percent)

Against Opponents Ranked in the Top 5:
Goestenkors: 14-14 (50.00 percent)
McCallie: 7-26 (21.21 percent)
.... etc etc

Wow... the prosecution rests its case...

 

[VolFan]

After the loss to NC State this year, McCallie threw the players under the bus and stated (in her post-game press conference), "I wish they could walk home." There was her behavior toward former UNC player Diamond DeShields after the 2013-2014 Duke-UNC game in Cameron. Then there were her other Twitter comments after losing to Notre Dame and UConn during the 2013-2014 season (statements about loyalty, comments about the foolishness of parents, etc.) I have screen shots of her Twitter comments.

What's the story there?

 

[wes33]

Her total compensation package is in excess of $800,000 per year.

Surely she has the time to implement a more sophisticated offense, considering what she is earning...and the fact that it is her *job* to do so.

If Al Brown does not sign off on a new system or implement it, then its not going to
happen. They both feel real comfy with there basic 90s systems and if he does not
come back from his 6 month sick sabbatical then a little over time may be in order.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

CamrnCrz1974 outstanding stuff as usual. In a previous post you broke down the sheer amount of talent in the form of McDonalds All-American players coming to Duke-please repost if possible . Also, what was the situation with Betnijah Laney and Duke?

Duke's MCDAA (2010-2014)
2014 - Sierra Calhoun, Lyneé Belton
2013 - Oderah Chidom, Kendall Cooper, Rebecca Greenwell
2012 - Alexis Jones, Sierra Moore
2011 - Amber Henson, Elizabeth Williams
2010 - Chelsea Gray, Richa Jackson, Haley Peters

Out of 120 MCDAAs during that stretch, 12 have gone to Duke - 10 percent.

She also inherited a roster with EIGHT high school All-Americans (Wanisha Smith, Abby Waner, Carrem Gay, Krystal Thomas, Jasmine Thomas, Joy Cheek, Bridgette Mitchell).

Since McCallie took over, Duke has had at least five recruiting classes (counting this year) ranked #1 or #2. Duke has ZERO Final Four appearances. McCallie has led her team to four Elite Eights in eight seasons. In two of those Elite Eight games, her teams scored in the 40s; three of the losses were by 11+ points. By contrast, Duke made the Final Four four times in the ten previous years under her predecessor.

Since Coach P took over for the 2007-2008 season, here is the list of schools to have made the Final Four:

Multiple Appearances in the Final Four (since the fall of 2007)
- UConn (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015)
- Notre Dame (2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015)
- Stanford (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014)
- Louisville (2009, 2013)
- Oklahoma (2009, 2010)
- Maryland (2014, 2015)
- Baylor (2010, 2012)
- LSU (2007, 2008)

Single Appearances in the Final Four (since the fall of 2007)
- South Carolina (2015)
- California (2013)
- Texas A&M (2011)
- Tennessee (2008)
- LSU (2008)

It is difficult to comprehend how recruiting classes consistently ranked #1 or #2 and a roster littered with high school All-Americans cannot yield a single Final Four appearance (but two second round defeats), yet can produce blowout losses and an incredibly poor record against elite opponents.

 

[willtalk]

CamrnCrz: I have a question. This team that McCallie inherited- What was the record of that team in the regular season in the final year under Gale?. How far did they advance in the NCAA's in comparison to that loaded team inherited and ruined by McCallie the following season? Waiting for your answer?

 

[willtalk]

Oh and while your at it Cam- why don't you mention the two graduating seniors from that previous team who McCalley didn't inherit.

 

[CocoHusky]

Oh and while your at it Cam- why don't you mention the two graduating seniors from that previous team who McCalley didn't inherit.

Willtalk, not sure what point you are trying to make reference these last two post with questions directed at Cam. If you can post you have access to a search tool and can easily look up the answer to your own questions. I will be more willing to support your point if you did your own research and actually made a point-or nah.

 

[BlueDevils]

What's the story there?

NOOOOOOOOO. But I guess we'll speak about it. After losing to Unc JPM refused to shake Gray or DD hands. Very disrespectful.

 

[Zorro]

She will never be voted Miss Congeniality.

 

[jsloanjr]

JPM has her own issues and unfortunately, Duke and its players have paid the price for her poor choice of words and Coaching.....I wish her and her team well again this season.

 

[willtalk]

Willtalk, not sure what point you are trying to make reference these last two post with questions directed at Cam. If you can post you have access to a search tool and can easily look up the answer to your own questions. I will be more willing to support your point if you did your own research and actually made a point-or nah.

With patience my reasons will soon become clear.

 

[wes33]

NOOOOOOOOO. But I guess we'll speak about it. After losing to Unc JPM refused to shake Gray or DD hands. Very disrespectful.

You may not have either if you new the reason you are condemning her.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Willtalk is going to argue that the graduation of Bales and Harding from a team that went 32-2 and made the Sweet 16 (but was upset) meant that McCallie was left with an empty cupboard, despite having a roster of eight McDonald's All-Americans.

Thing is, Beard, Tillis, Krapohl (three starters) graduated, Harding was suspended, and Brittney Hunter transferred after the 2003-2004 team made the Elite Eight. So the next year, Duke went 30-5 and made the Elite Eight.

After 2005-2006 when Duke made the Final Four and lost two starters and a third key player (Monique Currie, Mistie Bass, and Jessica Foley), Duke went undefeated in the regular season.

Under Goestenkors, Duke reloaded. Four Final Four appearances (and seven Elite Eight appearances) in ten years. Seven straight years of 30 or more wins. Great records against top opponents.

Willtalk, did the graduation of Harding and Bales set McCallie so far back (she went 25-10 in her first year, with eight McDonald's All-Americans on the roster) such that Duke has not been able to make a Final Four since?
Was that the catalyst for McCallie's 0-18 record against teams ranked #1 or #2? What about her 7-26 (21.21 percent) record against Top 5 opponents? Or her 19-32 (37.25 percent) record against Top 10 teams...despite having top ranked recruiting classes at least four times in her eight seasons?

Frankly, if that is your major point, Willtalk (and you might sound slightly more credible if you knew how to spell the first name of McCallie's predecessor), it goes to highlight the depths P supports will undergo to find something positive.

Listen, her overall record is great. She wins 80 percent of her games. But if you measure success by where the program was in April 2007 to where it is now and what she was hired to do (win a national championship), then she has been a disappointment as the head coach.

 

[calpedaler]

With patience my reasons will soon become clear.

 

[BlueDevils]

Willtalk is going to argue that the graduation of Bales and Harding from a team that went 32-2 and made the Sweet 16 (but was upset) meant that McCallie was left with an empty cupboard, despite having a roster of eight McDonald's All-Americans.

Thing is, Beard, Tillis, Krapohl (three starters) graduated, Harding was suspended, and Brittney Hunter transferred after the 2003-2004 team made the Elite Eight. So the next year, Duke went 30-5 and made the Elite Eight.

After 2005-2006 when Duke made the Final Four and lost two starters and a third key player (Monique Currie, Mistie Bass, and Jessica Foley), Duke went undefeated in the regular season.

Under Goestenkors, Duke reloaded. Four Final Four appearances (and seven Elite Eight appearances) in ten years. Seven straight years of 30 or more wins. Great records against top opponents.

Willtalk, did the graduation of Harding and Bales set McCallie so far back (she went 25-10 in her first year, with eight McDonald's All-Americans on the roster) such that Duke has not been able to make a Final Four since?
Was that the catalyst for McCallie's 0-18 record against teams ranked #1 or #2? What about her 7-26 (21.21 percent) record against Top 5 opponents? Or her 19-32 (37.25 percent) record against Top 10 teams...despite having top ranked recruiting classes at least four times in her eight seasons?

Frankly, if that is your major point, Willtalk (and you might sound slightly more credible if you knew how to spell the first name of McCallie's predecessor), it goes to highlight the depths P supports will undergo to find something positive.

Listen, her overall record is great. She wins 80 percent of her games. But if you measure success by where the program was in April 2007 to where it is now and what she was hired to do (win a national championship), then she has been a disappointment as the head coach.

Nice.

 

[meyers7]

Lol, nice one. Guess my fingers refused to type the second "fun".

"Duke is fun to make fun of."

Well orangutans aren't really known for their dexterity.

 

[willtalk]

Willtalk is going to argue that the graduation of Bales and Harding from a team that went 32-2 and made the Sweet 16 (but was upset) meant that McCallie was left with an empty cupboard, despite having a roster of eight McDonald's All-Americans.--------------------------.

So that's where you think I was going. Answer me one more question if you will. While never being a real supporter of coach P, you use to argue for objectivity in respect to this subject on the Duke board. In your effort to look at both sides of the argument and as a voice of reason you made what I thought were some very good points on that site. In fact we were usually on the same page. While I always saw you as a voice of reason rather than a coach P supporter, to some your posts might have given the appearance as a supporter. There appeared to come a time when your posts and perspectives did a 180 and your posts became entirely critical. My question ( I have always wanted to ask you this) is what exactly was the cause of your sudden reversal?

 

[meyers7]

With patience my reasons will soon become clear.

I think we got your reasons.

 

[UcMiami]

While not presuming to know CamrnCrz's mind, there is a big difference between providing support and perspective based on a 'its been too short a period of time' to jump ship, to a 'this has gone on too long' and I am drowning here!
New coaches inherit a team with players that have from 1 to 3 years experience playing for a different coach - some of those players likely would not have been recruited by the new coach and some may resent or fight the changes a new coach will bring. At the end of 4 years, (after the freshman recruited by the previous coach graduate) the team can be presumed to be hand picked by the not so new coach. Some success is expected before that date, much greater success after that date. Seems reasonable that a thinking person would give a new coach some support early, but would tend to be much harsher after 4 years in their evaluation.

And while the 'numbers not names' aspect of JPM's press conferences has been around since the beginning, the 'throw them under/off the bus' meanness seems to have come more to the front, and the 'lessons learned' has become a broken record, since the coaching side seems to be doing the exact same thing year after year. As the saying goes - insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[willtalk]

While not presuming to know CamrnCrz's mind, there is a big difference between providing support and perspective based on a 'its been too short a period of time' to jump ship, to a 'this has gone on too long' and I am drowning here!
New coaches inherit a team with players that have from 1 to 3 years experience playing for a different coach - some of those players likely would not have been recruited by the new coach and some may resent or fight the changes a new coach will bring. At the end of 4 years, (after the freshman recruited by the previous coach graduate) the team can be presumed to be hand picked by the not so new coach. Some success is expected before that date, much greater success after that date. Seems reasonable that a thinking person would give a new coach some support early, but would tend to be much harsher after 4 years in their evaluation..

That's a pretty good analysis of the rational that Cam actually used in his posts on the Duke site. Although from my recollection that factor didn't seem to play that much of a role in his change of perspective. The reason I asked that question was two fold.

I one found myself in the same type of situation in respect to another coach on another college team. I tended to argue on the side of caution in coming to a predetermined conclusion before considering all the effects of probable mitigating circumstances. In that case it was a statement by the coach herself that removed all doubt in my mind because it eliminated the one possibility that was a justification for her actions. I do believe I remember the turning point for Cam. I wonder if he does? My question was to clarify if we were on the same page in that respect. I do remember a post he made in that regard. As of yet he has yet to respond to my question.

When I posted on the Duke site, my arguments were not really in defense of coach P, rather to the validity of the arguments presented by her detractors. Some of those arguments were valid, but I found that the overwhelming number were not. When you throw enough BS together with some truth a large quantity of BS usually also gets though our filters and becomes part of our template for our future evaluation of what is true. When people articulate the reasons for their perspectives, those perspectives might actually convert us to their way of thinking. The other side of the coin is that any argument presented might also be used to hold them accountable for their rational. That's why I ask questions. The purpose is to create clarity in understanding exactly the other persons point of view. I personally do not like debate. It should not be about winning an argument, rather about exchanging perspectives to get the closest perspective of what is true possible. I find that when individuals do not seek clarity it usually means they have another purpose besides truth.

 

[willtalk]

I think we got your reasons.

No you haven't. I have yet to articulate my rational. I am waiting for Cam to answer my last question. If he doesn't, then I will proceed with out it. I often can not respond right away so I want to give him plenty of time to respond.

 

[sarals24]

CamrnCrz: I have a question. This team that McCallie inherited- What was the record of that team in the regular season in the final year under Gale?. How far did they advance in the NCAA's in comparison to that loaded team inherited and ruined by McCallie the following season? Waiting for your answer?

Can't you just look this up?