Jeff Jacobs article in control of XL & the RENT...

[zls44]

I don't think it's practical to convert Gampel, but if we did, we would have two rinks - I assume they wouldn't dynamite Freitas.

There are a small handful of DI programs with separate men's and women's team rinks.

 

[hthusky74]

It's been years since I made the drive along route 44 from the end of 384 to Storrs. Is there more room for a road expansion than along 195?

I believe I've read about the original 384 plans (which was actually 84, with what is now that part of 84 going towards Massachusetts being numbered 86) following route 6 toward Providence (which is why there is a small highway section of 6 in Willimantic).
But perhaps following 44 and connecting Hartford to Storrs more directly would be a doable project...

You are right. Route 84 as we know it today actually was route 86 for a few years and what became 384 was supposed to have become route 84 and go all the way to Providence. Two issues scrapped the project. Rohode Island made it clear they could/would not carry it through Providence to the Mass border, and the tree huggers in eastern CT wanted no part of it. Amazingly Gov. O'Neill wanted to build it to the Rhode Island border anyway, but the cost and tree huggers put a stop to it.

 

[kingdobbs]

I feel like there are a lot of half-@$$ed road projects in this state. 384 was supposed to be more but never was and probably never will. RT 11 was supposed to connect Rt 2 to 95 and that was half done and supposedly being looked at again. There's the phantom overpasses at the end of Rt 9 over 84. The phantom exit ramps off of the Sisson Ave exits on 84 in Hartford....wtf is up with this state! I've only been here since I started at UConn in '99. Crazy stuff for such a small state. Who approved and did these road projects?

They are, for the most part, for ancient (read: 40s/50s/60s) projects that were planned (and when it came to the interstates, those "phantom bits" had to be done then and there for practical reasons) and then scrapped due either to local opposition or cost overruns.

The Rt. 9 overpasses were for a 3/4 loop starting in Rocky Hill, crossing 84 in Newington, 91 in Windsor, and following current 291 into Manchester. Towns like Avon and Farmington weren't interested in having the highway go through them, though.

The Sisson Ave onramps were for an expressway stretching north to either Granby or Bradley Airport. That plan also didn't last long.

 

[Alum86]

Aren't we supposed to play Hockey at the XL when we upgrade? And do you guys work for D.O.T? You all sound like the SNL skit The Californians

 

[auggie22]

Even if you ignore the BBall aspects of widening the road, if you want to add 6,000 students like the Gov does.. the old infrastructure isn't going to work.

I think that is why the $2B budget included $770m in "infrastructure". I guess we will have to wait for this to get legislative approval before we find out what those planning the expansion are thinking.

 

[metsfan2323]

What's up with Jacobs. His articles are like spot on lately...

This has been the case for a while now, he must have read a Tony Robbins book or something. I'm reminded of the Taxi episode where Reverend Jim decided he was going to be the best Taxi driver he could be, or maybe he decided to write the opposite of everything his instincts tell him to write like George Costanza.

 

[UCFBfan]

Aren't we supposed to play Hockey at the XL when we upgrade? And do you guys work for D.O.T? You all sound like the SNL skit The Californians

They're only playing at the XL Center until an on-campus rink is built or the current one is expanded. It would be awful for the hockey program to play so far away from campus. Students probably don't even realize we have a hockey team. Putting it an hour away in Hartford, permanently, would be stupid.

 

[06029]

You are right. Route 84 as we know it today actually was route 86 for a few years and what became 384 was supposed to have become route 84 and go all the way to Providence. Two issues scrapped the project. Rohode Island made it clear they could/would not carry it through Providence to the Mass border, and the tree huggers in eastern CT wanted no part of it. Amazingly Gov. O'Neill wanted to build it to the Rhode Island border anyway, but the cost and tree huggers put a stop to it.

There was way more than tree huggers. Significant issues included alot of encroachment of wetlands and every time they re-routed, they hit other environmental and engineering obstacles. Not to mention the issues they were hititng in acquiring the land. The state spent almost 2 decades trying to figure out how to get it built. Biggest issues were thru Coventry and then thru Brooklyn. That short section of Route 6 in Willi that is a highway (dragstrip for me and my friends in the 80's) was part of the project too.

Today, fix the current bridges on the interstates before you widen 195. Better traffic management with cops and making some roads one way would work. Hell, even BC makes part of Comm Ave and Beacon Street 1 way on game days.

 

[jdb50]

If they are going to enlarge Freitas then they should put up something better than a metal shed which is what it is now. The space is there to build a larger better quality building around the existing rink though soccer will lose a few behind goal seats. Redesigning gampel and gutting it out to get more seats in there could be possible. Since the practice facility will have the hoops offices and such maybe the walkways could be put behind the stands and better concessions bathrooms etc could be created even if some had to be added outside the original circular frame. A new rink would have fit nicely where Memorial Stadium was but we have the hoops project under way. It's a game of musical chairs. The original hoops project was supposed to have 15,000 seats and be rectangle in shape but that was back when the coaches were driving chevettes from the State motor pool. I think politics in Hartford downsized it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's been years since I made the drive along route 44 from the end of 384 to Storrs. Is there more room for a road expansion than along 195?

I believe I've read about the original 384 plans (which was actually 84, with what is now that part of 84 going towards Massachusetts being numbered 86) following route 6 toward Providence (which is why there is a small highway section of 6 in Willimantic).
But perhaps following 44 and connecting Hartford to Storrs more directly would be a doable project...

I grew up in Manchester. What is now 384 didn't connect to 84/86 then. It was a hell of a dragstrip though. Empty at night and basically went from the Manchester border with Bolton to the border with East Hartford. Originally it was part of a planned highway to Providence.

 

[Ts5034]

I have been thinking for years now that Gampel may have been built to small to begin with. The whole hybrid home court thing that goes on at UConn is kind of stupid. All the other "blue bloods" are synonymous with one place(Dean dome, Allen, Cameron, Rupp). Sometimes teams in our own conference go 4-5 years in between playing at Gampel and thats unacceptable to me because thats the real home court. Maybe if everybody knew then what UConn would become, they build an arena with more capacity. Im all for a new arena on campus that can hold more people if that means saying goodbye to Hartford.

 

[Fishy]

It's too small - everyone knew it was too small when they built it.

Originally, UConn wanted to build a 12,500 seat building on campus, but proposing to build anything on campus in those days brought out the local lunatics. Add in a state legislature that was not crazy about anything threatening the Civic Center, an iffy economic climate and UConn was forced to 'settle' for an 8,241-seat arena.

Nearly as soon as it opened, the school started privately raising funds to expand to 10,027 which they did in 1996-ish. (They added another 140 seats about ten years ago.)

Basically, blame politics.

 

[coachcap]

It's too small - everyone knew it was too small when they built it.

Originally, UConn wanted to build a 12,500 seat building on campus, but proposing to build anything on campus in those days brought out the local lunatics. Add in a state legislature that was not crazy about anything threatening the Civic Center, an iffy economic climate and UConn was forced to 'settle' for an 8,241-seat arena.

Nearly as soon as it opened, the school started privately raising funds to expand to 10,027 which they did in 1996-ish. (They added another 140 seats about ten years ago.)

Basically, blame politics.

AND, the original blueprints called for a combo basketball/hockey facility. UConn hockey was D-II or D-III at the time & John Toner was forced to scrap the hockey surface to save $$$$$.

 

[upstater]

It's too small - everyone knew it was too small when they built it.

Originally, UConn wanted to build a 12,500 seat building on campus, but proposing to build anything on campus in those days brought out the local lunatics. Add in a state legislature that was not crazy about anything threatening the Civic Center, an iffy economic climate and UConn was forced to 'settle' for an 8,241-seat arena.

Nearly as soon as it opened, the school started privately raising funds to expand to 10,027 which they did in 1996-ish. (They added another 140 seats about ten years ago.)

Basically, blame politics.

This is the same mentality New Yorkers deal with when it comes to the four flagship SUNYs. First we have a person from NYC who loves the CUNYs heading the state's higher education committee, and she thinks the SUNYs should not rise above the level of the CUNYs. Then we have congressmen from all over who think cuts to the SUNYs are proper but at the same time create pork barrel projects in the tens of millions for private schools (the state gave Canisius $50 million for a new building, and funded the buildout of St. John's Fisher Law School in Rochester in the tens of millions while cutting the exact amount from UB's law school). Talking to a couple Presidents who were in NY but Provosts elsewhere across the country prior to that, they were incredulous--just flabbergasted.

And then I mentioned to them that every single political power broker in the state for decades from both parties graduated from a private school, and that's still the case today: Cuomo 1 and 2, Clinton, Pataki, Silver, Bruno, Skelos, Gillibrand, Moynihan, Spitzer, Paterson, D'Amato, etc.

It's a struggle up in Conn. and NY to get funding for higher education. People up here favor private schools.

 

[CL82]

What's up with Jacobs. His articles are like spot on lately...

He's "borrowing" more directly form the Boneyard and adding less of his own thoughts. In addition, with Jim retired that whole weird man crush/hate thing is harder to work into columns. It is a winning formula.

 

[freescooter]

The speaker of the state house was from Hartford at the time Gampel was approved. He was adamant that the XL (nee Civic) Center be preserved. But on the other hand, he was one of the fighters for UConn 2000, and UConn 21st Century so there was some positive benefit, too. I don't love the way UConn schedules at the XL. If it were up to me, and they did this a few times when Gampel first opened, I'd play maybe 4 games there and the rest on campus. Now they play far too many games off campus. Virtually the whole series of winter break games are in Hartford. Plus a few more over the course of the season. My deal would be go to Hartford and say you only get 4 but you can choose which 4. The rest are on campus.

By the way, UConn has really done pretty well I would argue with the State legislature ove rthe past 2 decades. And it looks to be continuing going forward with the governor's proposal. I think one issue New York has its exactly the problem upstater identifies, but a separate one is that there isn't a University of New York, that is a flagship. there are really 4. And that makes it difficult because if you give something to Buffalo, you have to give comparable things to Binghamton and the same to Stony Brook and Albany. You don't have that issue in Texas or Michigan or Connecticut.

 

[upstater]

By the way, UConn has really done pretty well I would argue with the State legislature ove rthe past 2 decades. And it looks to be continuing going forward with the governor's proposal. I think one issue New York has its exactly the problem upstater identifies, but a separate one is that there isn't a University of New York, that is a flagship. there are really 4. And that makes it difficult because if you give something to Buffalo, you have to give comparable things to Binghamton and the same to Stony Brook and Albany. You don't have that issue in Texas or Michigan or Connecticut.

A couple points to make:

1. Conn. still is not in the top 20 in Higer Ed. funding per capita, even given the last 20 years. It went from the 40s to the mid 20s, so that's an improvement. If you take income into account, it's still in the mid 30s. In other words, the state can and probably should do more.

2. States the size of New York have multiple state universities. Look at California and Texas. Sure, UT is probably a flagship, but the other universities there are growing. Now, it's true that the four SUNY centers are treated equitably (althoughr ecently the state passed a bill for Buffalo solely that was promised in future years to the others) but there are frequent pushes to insist the satellites and CUNY's receive what the centers receive. I would point out that the Michigan system (and I know that system well having lived in Ann Arbor a couple years) is not just U. Michigan but also Michigan St. (which is actually larger than UM) and the directional Michigans which are formidable universities in themselves. Connecticut has absolutely nothing like the directions. CCSU and SCSU are nowhere near the level of EMich or CMich or WMich (never been to NMich so I don't know about that one).

 

[Whale22]

There was way more than tree huggers. Significant issues included alot of encroachment of wetlands and every time they re-routed, they hit other environmental and engineering obstacles. Not to mention the issues they were hititng in acquiring the land. The state spent almost 2 decades trying to figure out how to get it built. Biggest issues were thru Coventry and then thru Brooklyn. That short section of Route 6 in Willi that is a highway (dragstrip for me and my friends in the 80's) was part of the project too.

Today, fix the current bridges on the interstates before you widen 195. Better traffic management with cops and making some roads one way would work. Hell, even BC makes part of Comm Ave and Beacon Street 1 way on game days.

If you look at google maps "satellite view" right around Exit 23 in Rocky Hill you can see the on and off ramps that are still there for what would have been the southern part of the belt. Follow those ramps west and you see developments and parks that were all prior state land, right through the DOT building that the state built on their land on the Berlin Tpke in Newington that was supposed to be a clover leaf. You can follow up through current RTE 9 right into where the "bridges to nowhere" are etc..... all this was supposed to connect with the Bissell Bridge (Norther Bridge of the belt ) and the RTE 3 bridge (Southern Bridge of belt) which were built in anticipation of the belt to alleviate traffic around Hartford. Ironically that belt was to go through current location of the Rent (so maybe a good thing not completed?)

I found the following links years ago and found them fascinating on what would have been a modern belt. My old man used to talk about the backwardness of these local govts turning these proposals down, but I think it more has to do with the dynamics of local government in what is basically the only state in the union where County governments have almost zero power. So in turn getting all these local towns to pass highways cutting through their towns was almost impossible where maybe a powerful county seat (or think Robert Moses type) could have pushed through.

http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/hartford.html

http://www.gatm.com/cthwys/index2.html

 

[freescooter]

A couple points to make:

1. Conn. still is not in the top 20 in Higer Ed. funding per capita, even given the last 20 years. It went from the 40s to the mid 20s, so that's an improvement. If you take income into account, it's still in the mid 30s. In other words, the state can and probably should do more.

2. States the size of New York have multiple state universities. Look at California and Texas. Sure, UT is probably a flagship, but the other universities there are growing. Now, it's true that the four SUNY centers are treated equitably (althoughr ecently the state passed a bill for Buffalo solely that was promised in future years to the others) but there are frequent pushes to insist the satellites and CUNY's receive what the centers receive. I would point out that the Michigan system (and I know that system well having lived in Ann Arbor a couple years) is not just U. Michigan but also Michigan St. (which is actually larger than UM) and the directional Michigans which are formidable universities in themselves. Connecticut has absolutely nothing like the directions. CCSU and SCSU are nowhere near the level of EMich or CMich or WMich (never been to NMich so I don't know about that one).

I don't disagree with any of that. The Virginia systems are very good too. But Virginia Tech isn't Virginia. Nor is William & Mary or any of the others, though they are all very good schools. There is no arguing which one is the flagship. There may be a battle for 2nd place. I just think the 4 equal centers of the SUNY system means that everyone has to fight for its share of the pie and as a result there will be some limitation on how good any one can get. Now having said that, I am not knocking those schools. Just the system.

 

[upstater]

I don't disagree with any of that. The Virginia systems are very good too. But Virginia Tech isn't Virginia. Nor is William & Mary or any of the others, though they are all very good schools. There is no arguing which one is the flagship. There may be a battle for 2nd place. I just think the 4 equal centers of the SUNY system means that everyone has to fight for its share of the pie and as a result there will be some limitation on how good any one can get. Now having said that, I am not knocking those schools. Just the system.

I simply believe the state is big enough to house 4. Population wise, it's a big state. The schools have 25,000 students each. There is no reason to pick winners among the four. As it relates to UConn, realize that all but $300 million of Malloy's $2 billion is really going outside of UConn into targeted research entities. This is similar to what happened to U. Albany many years ago, and there was a big payout for the region as industry invested and moved in.

What is Malloy looking at? The Capital Region of NY. Has it helped U. Albany? Yes, some. But this has a lot more to do with private business than it does the university. $300 million is going to UConn. That money will help UConn immensely because it will relieve the pressure on tuition (since Herbst is on record as saying the new hires will come from increased tuition).

 

[Alum86]

They're only playing at the XL Center until an on-campus rink is built or the current one is expanded. It would be awful for the hockey program to play so far away from campus. Students probably don't even realize we have a hockey team. Putting it an hour away in Hartford, permanently, would be stupid.

I think it would be great to have big time college at the XL. The Courant had an article about this and UConn hockey replacing a possible AHL loss for Hartford. Even a few games a year would be good if the AHL stays.

 

[UCFBfan]

If you look at google maps "satellite view" right around Exit 23 in Rocky Hill you can see the on and off ramps that are still there for what would have been the southern part of the belt. Follow those ramps west and you see developments and parks that were all prior state land, right through the DOT building that the state built on their land on the Berlin Tpke in Newington that was supposed to be a clover leaf. You can follow up through current RTE 9 right into where the "bridges to nowhere" are etc..... all this was supposed to connect with the Bissell Bridge (Norther Bridge of the belt ) and the RTE 3 bridge (Southern Bridge of belt) which were built in anticipation of the belt to alleviate traffic around Hartford. Ironically that belt was to go through current location of the Rent (so maybe a good thing not completed?)

I found the following links years ago and found them fascinating on what would have been a modern belt. My old man used to talk about the backwardness of these local govts turning these proposals down, but I think it more has to do with the dynamics of local government in what is basically the only state in the union where County governments have almost zero power. So in turn getting all these local towns to pass highways cutting through their towns was almost impossible where maybe a powerful county seat (or think Robert Moses type) could have pushed through.

http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/hartford.html

http://www.gatm.com/cthwys/index2.html

Great links! Thanks for that....what a ridiculous state....I guess you can say that at least they have all these roads started....too bad the land needed to complete has become developed...outside Rt 11

 

[alexd]

The speaker of the state house was from Hartford at the time Gampel was approved. He was adamant that the XL (nee Civic) Center be preserved. But on the other hand, he was one of the fighters for UConn 2000, and UConn 21st Century so there was some positive benefit, too. I don't love the way UConn schedules at the XL. If it were up to me, and they did this a few times when Gampel first opened, I'd play maybe 4 games there and the rest on campus. Now they play far too many games off campus. Virtually the whole series of winter break games are in Hartford. Plus a few more over the course of the season. My deal would be go to Hartford and say you only get 4 but you can choose which 4. The rest are on campus.

By the way, UConn has really done pretty well I would argue with the State legislature ove rthe past 2 decades. And it looks to be continuing going forward with the governor's proposal. I think one issue New York has its exactly the problem upstater identifies, but a separate one is that there isn't a University of New York, that is a flagship. there are really 4. And that makes it difficult because if you give something to Buffalo, you have to give comparable things to Binghamton and the same to Stony Brook and Albany. You don't have that issue in Texas or Michigan or Connecticut.

Since I've had season tix at the HCC/XL since 1989, I had to go back and check what you were writing about them only playing "4 games at the HCC a few times" after Gampel first opened. Not the case at all. What did happen was the season Gampel opened (1989/90), the HCC games ended when Gampel opened in the third week of January, but they had already squeezed in 8 games at the HCC. The following 4 seasons they played 7, 9, 9 and 8 games respectively at the HCC.

 

[CL82]

Great links! Thanks for that....what a ridiculous state....I guess you can say that at least they have all these roads started....too bad the land needed to complete has become developed...outside Rt 11

Here's s good description of the history of Route 11 and 'current' status. Apparently is going to be completed, although with so many twists and turns, who can say for sure.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I was on campus last week for the first time in ages. I am glad I left Thursday night before Nemo shut it all down. Though, for old time’s sake, I would have snuck into the Hilltop cafeteria, stolen a tray, and gone sledding down Alumni Drive.
First, Ted’s has not changed. Second, just about everything else has. What is it with the metal clad buildings in the middle of what was Fairfield Road? I am also insanely jealous of the new business building in comparison to the 1950’s gulag I took classes in.
Anyway, I did walk into Gampel after spending way too much money on UConn swag for my family at the Co-Op. Wow, it is really starting to show its age after almost 25 years of service. It is also clear with classrooms and office under the floor and the building’s roof and superstructure, it would be cheaper and easier to build a new area than update Gampel (my fond memories of the place aside).
In an ideal world, UConn moves it’s basketball and hockey games to the XL in Hartford for 2 years while a new, 12,000 (basketball)/8,000 (hockey) seat dual–purpose arena is built where Gampel is today or potentially as part of the Storrs Center project (that project is a lot bigger that I thought it would be). Duel purpose makes sense for UConn because most ‘blue blood’ hoop schools do not have hockey. Once complete, all home basketball and hockey games must be held in Storrs, except for maybe a single ‘home’ game for both programs at MSG. Let Hartford fix its own problems (I know politics makes this very unlikely). Set aside 2K to 3K seats for students and most games should sell-out or be close to it. The ‘Big Dog’ would only be used for games and other events.
Both basketball teams can use the new practice facility while the hockey teams can use Freitas for practice (ideally a second sheet of ice is added to maximize practice time for both teams and allow the arena to be used by the community for free skate, local HS hockey, etc.). Due to the idiots who designed the complex, UConn would need a new competition pool, too. There should be room between Sherman field and the basketball practice facility for it to be put there.