James Wiseman ruled ineligible

[gampelcrazies]

I hope Wiseman and Memphis win this case. The NCAA can go pound sand.

This is one of the only times I will root for the NCAA to win. This is blatant cheating.

 

[CbbisGreat]

For those who are interested *only* (Yes I've seen the name calling directed my way) ---- a few of the points Wisemans lawyers are making --- at least at this stage (link)


https://247sports.com/college/memphis/ContentGallery/Breaking-down-James-Wisemans-lawsuit-against-the-NCAA-138266007/ - 138266007_1

Thank you for this information, I hope he is eligible .

 

[alohachris]

Thank you for this information, I hope he is eligible .

 

[Padutch5]

Question, why isn't the NCAA going after Alex Lomax? Penny provided a shelter, food, and a home to Alex when he had none. Those are certainly benefits no? Lomax then came and play for Penny. Just curious, why isn't the NCAA also going after Lomax?

Bingo! Don’t be surprised if it is ultimately this is the tip of the iceberg. If Penny did this 2 years ago, what is the likelihood that he did this multiple times? I’d think highly likely.

 

[alohachris]

Wait until they find out exactly how much money Wiseman & his teammates really have made from all the "boosters," side deals & hustlers. It will come out.

It'll make the Michigan fab five's haul look like peanuts. That $11,500 for Wiseman's family moving expenses is nothing. Of course it was a drop in the bucket of his total haul. And, his parents certainly never complained or took the high road - the parents of would-be stars rarely do & are even less interested in knowing the rules.

Nobody wins here. Especially college basketball fans.

I grew up playing in NYC. Longtime ago, I was a Div. I & European player & I've been a real fan since the 50's (I even remember the point shaving scandals of 1950 & 60.) Now, I don't take top-level college basketball seriously anymore. It's a minor league now, in a major money straight-jacket. Totally corrupt. And everyone is to blame for it.

The way some posters talk about the NCAA & allowing market forces to control the situation, you know that now everyone is complicit in how far down college basketball has strayed. Heck, many believe that there should be no rules & that players must be paid (beyond the free $250K college education they receive) & shouldn't even have to go to class anymore or be qualified to go to class - any class. Pick up the check at the trainers' office or at the new Rec Center. What did the star recruit get on his SAT's? BBQ sauce.

Rules just get in the way of everyone (players, their families, coaches, colleges, networks, AAU scumbags, shoe companies, fans) making their money, right. Nobody values the free education anymore. Everyone wants to get paid. So, what we have now are no rules with lotsa BS charades & shady characters when a few get caught. Wait til the "agents" start "helping" the players - mostly themselves - get likeness deals.

I hate seeing the game I love destroyed! This Wiseman case is just the tip of it.

Of course the NCAA is being hypocritical. It follows the money too. They don't go after the pillar institutions of any sport. That really sucks. Bill Self, Sean Miller, Roy Williams, Mike Krzyzewski, John Calipari, the exposed Rick Pitino (his first job was bagman for Hawaii's fab five - not on his resume'!) & the hundreds of coaches like them should all be kicked out of the college game. Cheaters all! And wait til it hits the fan for CCSU's Donyell Marshall down the line. But the college presidents & fans would all holler. They're gods on campus. Rich dad's - through assistant coaches & boosters - for their stars.

For me, when they let UNC slide after 20 years of documented cheating in many sports, I could no longer believe that any star hoops or football player is not either getting big money or having his schoolwork completely done for him. Both are true along with big paydays at every major contender. Even occasionally at UConn. C'mon, they don't go to class. Jimmy had to fudge the rules to get many studs into the school over the years. That's true everywhere.

Memphis has long been considered a "bandit school" - long before Calipari & Rose, long before their first great paid players Larry's Finch & Keenan went up against Walton & UCLA, & long before ex-coach Captain Kirk, known as "The Bagman," was paying his Memphis State stars & getting their folks jobs & houses in the 60's, before he was banned from the sport. Memphis has always been on the NCAA's radar.

Penny Hardaway should have known that with his school's history, his coaching tenure at Memphis would be highly scrutinized. But today's top HS recruits like Wiseman cost a lot of money to attend your school. So Penny lost his shine & cheated, the full extent of which we'll soon find out. He was only using the kid anyway, like most coaches. When 'one & done' is over, hopefully this will change.

There are many bandit schools - too many to name. I mean, what is Auburn coach Bruce Pearl doing on any basketball sideline with his history of abuses at several schools? Buying players on his way to 20-win seasons for any sell out, greedy college that's in need. He shoulda been banned too.

Every year there's another group of Wiseman's. But we do need some rules & we do need some ethical organization to enforce them equally & swiftly. Shame on everyone who has let money rule college football & destroy college basketball.

alohachris

 

[Mike9904111]

Personally I am in Wiseman's corner here. Could care less about Memphis and whatever happens to them or their fans. I think he/his lawyers make a valid argument. I don't think Memphis cheated to get players, Penny did that when he was the basketball coach of an AAU team and a high school; however, I do think the Wiseman commitment pushed other recruits to Memphis. So this ultimately affects a lot of kids, which is my concern as not just a huge basketball fan but also an adult who has watched the NCAA profit off of these kids for years and billions of dollars. I get the non-profit argument, but salaries and other perks NCAA big wigs get says otherwise.

1. Precious
2. Quinones
3. Boogie Ellis

I don't think either of them commits to Memphis without Wiseman there. Once the NCAA declared him eligible and from I gather twice. Then it should have been over and done with. Wiseman should have either been declared ineligible the first time since they admit they made an error they certainly should have made him ineligible the second go around, but instead stated, "They will honor the eligible verdict."

Wiseman could have played somewhere else, or could have made money overseas somewhere. Precious would have gone elsewhere *cough* UConn *cough*. (Well, maybe). Quinones would've probably gone to Indiana or Maryland and Boogie probably would have stayed committed to Duke.

This whole thing is a mess and no good for anyone. I have watched time and time again as UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and several others have gotten away with offenses worse than this. I have watched these programs reel in kid after kid after kid and it didn't make sense.

I hope for college basketball's sake and kids everywhere Wiseman at least gets money out of the NCAA for this even if he never plays another game at the college level.

 

[gtcam]

I don’t get why Memphis played him. This is 100% a violation. There’s not a chance they win this case

To look like the victim and play on the heartstrings of the fans and public
They are possibly sacrificing their season and any remaining integrity (not that there is any) for publicity and pity
If there was this money involved I really can't see how they can win this case BUT look who is still coaching at Zona

 

[huskymedic]

For those who are interested *only* (Yes I've seen the name calling directed my way) ---- a few of the points Wisemans lawyers are making --- at least at this stage (link)

https://247sports.com/college/memphis/ContentGallery/Breaking-down-James-Wisemans-lawsuit-against-the-NCAA-138266007/ - 138266007_1

SI’s McMann: How the NCAA's Ineligibility Ruling Against Memphis' James Wiseman Could Play Out

 

[pj]

To look like the victim and play on the heartstrings of the fans and public
They are possibly sacrificing their season and any remaining integrity (not that there is any) for publicity and pity
If there was this money involved I really can't see how they can win this case BUT look who is still coaching at Zona

Maybe the money they lose on getting a basketball death penalty, they hope to make up with an antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA and P5.

In principle, this could be escalated substantially, if the NCAA refuses to take parallel actions against the schools caught in the FBI sting.

 

[freescooter]

Actually I hope the judge upholds the injunction and rules the ncaa exceeddd their authority. And makes them pay court costs and Wisemans legal fees too. The organization needs to be blown up and reconstructed.

 

[glastonbury50]

So Jay Bilas on Sportscenter talked about the potential consequences of Memphis playing Wiseman last night. He said there is a bylaw that states that Memphis can be ruled ineligible for the postseason if it is found to have played an ineligible player. He thinks the NCAA may go to federal court next week and that is pretty shocking that Memphis played him last night, even with the court order.

If he doesnt play their seasons done anyways.

 

[CL82]

.Sorry. The 11 years was an error because I took the date of Penny's donation to Memphis as the date of the move of Wiseman's family. Bad post on my part. The comment about DT's uncle was a complete fabrication intended to be funny. Also not my best effort. Do me a favor. please forget that you read my post. thanks

Okay then.

 

[mauconnfan]

Where did we get some of these posters?

Hey listen I get the “what about Sean Miller, Bill Self etc” argument but let’s start somewhere. It’s blatant cheating let’s stop the guy with 100M in his pocket from being able to do it this way. Memphis doesn’t suddenly deserve to be on top due to dollars (don’t forget about Miller and his family AAU) make them earn it by coaching. We saw they weren’t very good st that last year. Hope he’s ineligible NEXT.

 

[pj]

Whoa.

Just a note, there's no need to "fudge the rules" to get athletes of any race into school. Every DI school has special admissions standards for athletes that are distinct from academic merit. At the one P5 school I was associated with when I was in academia, 35% of all admissions were under special categories in which academic merit was a minor or no consideration.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

This thread is predictably falling off a cliff.

 

[HuskyHawk]

SI’s McMann: How the NCAA's Ineligibility Ruling Against Memphis' James Wiseman Could Play Out

Good article. Very fair. This is a pretty clear rule violation. But the state of California just busted a long standing NCAA rule. Wiseman is taking them on and Memphis is riding along. Playing him was the equivalent of shoving all their chips in. It sent a message to the NCAA that they are coming to destroy more rules permanently. They could do that. Will the NCAA blink or go all in as well?

The NBA requirement for the draft really hurts the NCAA here. Their position that nobody has to come play under their rules would be stronger if Wiseman was draft eligible.

 

[dwalks93]

For those who are interested *only* (Yes I've seen the name calling directed my way) ---- a few of the points Wisemans lawyers are making --- at least at this stage (link)


https://247sports.com/college/memphis/ContentGallery/Breaking-down-James-Wisemans-lawsuit-against-the-NCAA-138266007/ - 138266007_1

You do understand the Wiseman's lawyer cannot make the decision to play Wiseman, only the University can. Could a player sue the school for not getting enough playing time and then force the coach to play him more?

Bottom line....by playing Wiseman, Memphis just publicly challenged the NCAA's authority. It may be a understandable challenge based on the NCAA's inconsistent and corrupt applications of the rules but it is still a very public insubordination.

My guess is Memphis will pay a heavy price even if its action leads to the long term weakening of the NCAA. The NCAA isn't going to surrender its authority without a fight. Memphis may see this an "existential threat" to its program but the NCAA will see this as an "existential threat" to its authority.

As for Wiseman, when has it ever been about the individual athlete? Wiseman may or may not be a sympathetic figure but the outcome won't be decided by what is in his best interests. Hell, his best interests would have been playing in the NBA right now and not having to pretend to go to college.

 

[intlzncster]

Wait until they find out exactly how much money Wiseman & his teammates really have made from all the "boosters," side deals & hustlers. It will come out.

It'll make the Michigan fab five's haul look like peanuts. That $11,500 for Wiseman's family moving expenses is nothing. Of course it was a drop in the bucket of his total haul. And, his parents certainly never complained or took the high road - the parents of would-be stars rarely do & are even less interested in knowing the rules.

Nobody wins here. Especially college basketball fans.

I grew up playing in NYC. Longtime ago, I was a Div. I & European player & I've been a real fan since the 50's (I even remember the point shaving scandals of 1950 & 60.) Now, I don't take top-level college basketball seriously anymore. It's a minor league now, in a major money straight-jacket. Totally corrupt. And everyone is to blame for it.

The way some posters talk about the NCAA & allowing market forces to control the situation, you know that now everyone is complicit in how far down college basketball has strayed. Heck, many believe that there should be no rules & that players must be paid (beyond the free $250K college education they receive) & shouldn't even have to go to class anymore or be qualified to go to class - any class. Pick up the check at the trainers' office or at the new Rec Center. What did the star recruit get on his SAT's? BBQ sauce.

Rules just get in the way of everyone (players, their families, coaches, colleges, networks, AAU scumbags, shoe companies, fans) making their money, right. Nobody values the free education anymore. Everyone wants to get paid. So, what we have now are no rules with lotsa BS charades & shady characters when a few get caught. Wait til the "agents" start "helping" the players - mostly themselves - get likeness deals.

I hate seeing the game I love destroyed! This Wiseman case is just the tip of it.

Of course the NCAA is being hypocritical. It follows the money too. They don't go after the pillar institutions of any sport. That really sucks. Bill Self, Sean Miller, Roy Williams, Mike Krzyzewski, John Calipari, the exposed Rick Pitino (his first job was bagman for Hawaii's fab five - not on his resume'!) & the hundreds of coaches like them should all be kicked out of the college game. Cheaters all! And wait til it hits the fan for CCSU's Donyell Marshall down the line. But the college presidents & fans would all holler. They're gods on campus. Rich dad's - through assistant coaches & boosters - for their stars.

For me, when they let UNC slide after 20 years of documented cheating in many sports, I could no longer believe that any star hoops or football player is not either getting big money or having his schoolwork completely done for him. Both are true along with big paydays at every major contender. Even occasionally at UConn. C'mon, they don't go to class. Jimmy had to fudge the rules to get many studs into the school over the years. That's true everywhere.

Memphis has long been considered a "bandit school" - long before Calipari & Rose, long before their first great paid players Larry's Finch & Keenan went up against Walton & UCLA, & long before ex-coach Captain Kirk, known as "The Bagman," was paying his Memphis State stars & getting their folks jobs & houses in the 60's, before he was banned from the sport. Memphis has always been on the NCAA's radar.

Penny Hardaway should have known that with his school's history, his coaching tenure at Memphis would be highly scrutinized. But today's top HS recruits like Wiseman cost a lot of money to attend your school. So Penny lost his shine & cheated, the full extent of which we'll soon find out. He was only using the kid anyway, like most coaches. When 'one & done' is over, hopefully this will change.

There are many bandit schools - too many to name. I mean, what is Auburn coach Bruce Pearl doing on any basketball sideline with his history of abuses at several schools? Buying players on his way to 20-win seasons for any sell out, greedy college that's in need. He shoulda been banned too.

Every year there's another group of Wiseman's. But we do need some rules & we do need some ethical organization to enforce them equally & swiftly. Shame on everyone who has let money rule college football & destroy college basketball.

alohachris

Every single college hoops dynasty/run/big class or whatever was bought. You're obviously aware of the history of that...UCLA's 11 purchased championships et al. Tark/UNLV. Fisher/Fab Five. And so on and so on. Duke over and over and over again. And it's never been enforced evenly: see UNLV vs Memphis.

It's always been this way. Everybody profits. Except the kids who actually do all the work. Why is that? Most of the good players are going to play basketball in some capacity somewhere around the world after their college career. It's their profession. A third rate remedial class 'education' isn't going to do bupkis for them.

The game was never 'pure'. It's just that we have much more access to the underbelly now. It's out in the open.

So what exactly are you saying we should 'get back to'? There were never any halcyon days.

 

[TRest]

Just a note, there's no need to "fudge the rules" to get athletes of any race into school. Every DI school has special admissions standards for athletes that are distinct from academic merit. At the one P5 school I was associated with when I was in academia, 35% of all admissions were under special categories in which academic merit was a minor or no consideration.

Tell Randy Edsall, he believes Uconn only allows National Merit Scholars.

 

[BGesus4]

So Jay Bilas on Sportscenter talked about the potential consequences of Memphis playing Wiseman last night. He said there is a bylaw that states that Memphis can be ruled ineligible for the postseason if it is found to have played an ineligible player. He thinks the NCAA may go to federal court next week and that is pretty shocking that Memphis played him last night, even with the court order.

Imagine being a player like precious and being essentially told by your coach that he'd rather have a pissing match with the NCAA over Wiseman that he invariably won't win than give you a chance to showcase your talent in the tournament, after likely promising you the moon during your recruitment.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Alohachris is top 5 all time worst poster.

@MemphisBlues I’m sure it’s exhausting finding ways to try and explain how this isnt an egregious NCAA violation. I appreciate your effort. We had Ryan Boatright miss half a season because his AAU coach bought his mom a Plane ticket to go to an AAU tournament.
Saying “the donation was 11 years ago!” Is cute but Penny Hardaway was still a very public entity identifiable by a basketball connection to the university. Even taking out Penny as his eventual college coach, or even his status as a booster, this kid’s high school coach paid to move his family closer to the school. Not an amateur. Ineligible.

 

[CL82]

I think the best thing that Wiseman and Memphis have going for them is that the NCAA ruled him eligible and that they acted in reliance on that ruling. There are counter-arguments for the NCAA, but it is a good point.

 

[sledog]

Where did this frosh college kid get all of these lawyers who seem to have instantaniously popped-up in a flash / puff of smoke equipted w 500 page legal briefs? Were they prepped for this? And who's paying?

 

[Mike9904111]

Where did this frosh college kid get all of these lawyers who seem to have instantaniously popped-up in a flash / puff of smoke equipted w 500 page legal briefs? Were they prepped for this? And who's paying?

Seems like they were. Wiseman and Co. may have been prepared for an appeal initially thinking the NCAA was going to declare him ineligible once those violations were reported when he enrolled. Everything was probably put on the back burner when they declared him eligible. Once the NCAA changed their minds it wouldn't take much to add a few lines to a document.

That's what I am guessing at least. As a former student of law, that is what I would have done. As far as who's paying. It 100% isn't Memphis, Penny or any booster. At least on the cover. It would be too obvious. I am guessing the lawyers are doing this pro bono. I did some research on Ballin, Ballin, and Fishman and they appear to be the real deal. They have done this type of work in the past, so the NCAA can't say they are doing this just for Wiseman, they will just point to numerous other cases they have works pro bono for others.

I'm interested to see how this turns out.

 

[Mike9904111]

You do understand the Wiseman's lawyer cannot make the decision to play Wiseman, only the University can. Could a player sue the school for not getting enough playing time and then force the coach to play him more?

Bottom line....by playing Wiseman, Memphis just publicly challenged the NCAA's authority. It may be a understandable challenge based on the NCAA's inconsistent and corrupt applications of the rules but it is still a very public insubordination.

My guess is Memphis will pay a heavy price even if its action leads to the long term weakening of the NCAA. The NCAA isn't going to surrender its authority without a fight. Memphis may see this an "existential threat" to its program but the NCAA will see this as an "existential threat" to its authority.

As for Wiseman, when has it ever been about the individual athlete? Wiseman may or may not be a sympathetic figure but the outcome won't be decided by what is in his best interests. Hell, his best interests would have been playing in the NBA right now and not having to pretend to go to college.

Memphis is a defendant in the case. Technically by law, they can't hold him out until the case is resolved. If they do they could be in some legal trouble. That's what the TOR is for. Had Wiseman NOT included Memphis (this was obviously planned) then they could have forced him to sit out. Memphis may still get hit, but technically they shouldn't.