Jacobs: Reality Check for CV

[SeattleHoop]

Where did I say that?

Well I assumed (maybe wrongly) that since me pointing out something wrong with CVs behavior was “on one side of the spectrum” you were referring to my side as extreme right? Thus if me seeing fault in CVs behavior was extreme then I assumed you didn’t have any issue with CVs behavior... Or am I wrong? Do you think CV was being delusional?

 

[intlzncster]

Well I assumed (maybe wrongly) that since me pointing out something wrong with CVs behavior was “on one side of the spectrum” you were referring to my side as extreme right? Thus if me seeing fault in CVs behavior was extreme then I assumed you didn’t have any issue with CVs behavior... Or am I wrong? Do you think CV was being delusional?

At times last year, for sure. A lot of that falls on the man in charge last year for not reigning it in though. It also sounds like he's now clued into that fact and is willing to listen.

I personally didn't have much of a problem with him last year because everybody else was so lackadaisical. I was willing to let head scratching 3s and finger wagging go, as he was one of the only guys who played hard all the time. That's a more a reflection of the overall team last year, than CV himself though.

 

[jleves]

“He is the most competitive guy we have,” Hurley said. “The fire burns. It's just got to burn the right way and you've got to do it in a manner that isn't off-putting, for lack of a better


“I was immature, I'll say that,” Vital said. “I was, I wouldn't say selfish, but I didn't know how important it was to be thinking about other teammates.


It's about just directing it in a way that is going to empower your teammates. Be confident, not delusional.”

Are we reading the same article?? It’s pretty clear to me that CV and Hurley are both pointing out that he needs to contain his confidence so that he doesn’t affect his teammates in a negative manner or come off as arrogant in the perception of his teammates. Delusion causes chemistry issues. Why do you continue to try to make me out as some conspiracy theorist when the writing is on the wall. It’s all in the article. Hurley and CV come out and say it for me. I don’t even have to speculate.

Let me take a shot at this. Using @intlzncster phrase, there's a broad spectrum between not positively affecting your team and being a problem in the locker room. There's nothing in any of your quotes that suggest he was a locker room problem - more so that his play may not have been as team oriented as it should be. Your take certainly suggests the really bad end of the spectrum instead of something more in the middle or not that big of an issue that will be easily addressed.

 

[SeattleHoop]

At times last year, for sure. A lot of that falls on the man in charge last year for not reigning it in though. It also sounds like he's now clued into that fact and is willing to listen.

I personally didn't have much of a problem with him last year because everybody else was so lackadaisical. I was willing to let head scratching 3s and finger wagging go, as he was one of the only guys who played hard all the time. That's a more a reflection of the overall team last year, than CV himself though.

Okay so I don’t think we actually have a disagreement. Just a different point of focus. I agree the whole team had issues and the whole culture needs fixing but I have been hyper focused on CV especially since this article is about him and his attitude specifically.
Also because he was making some extremely significant decisions during the off season.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Let me take a shot at this. Using @intlzncster phrase, there's a broad spectrum between not positively affecting your team and being a problem in the locker room. There's nothing in any of your quotes that suggest he was a locker room problem - more so that his play may not have been as team oriented as it should be. Your take certainly suggests the really bad end of the spectrum instead of something more in the middle or not that big of an issue that will be easily addressed.

Fair enough, you put that eloquently and I respect that because you made sense. When you put it that way, yes I do stand on the side of the spectrum that leans to the “negative” side. Mainly bc I feel if a coach is bringing up these issues at all in a public light, and the player is admitting his delusion. I feel there is more going on than what’s on the surface. But using phrases like “off putting” “delusional” “empower” tells me he CV was having an affect on his teammates and it wasn’t all positive..

 

[Mokum]

Reading these articles I was thinking the same exact thing. Ollie in college and in the NBA was always that guy that had to out work everyone and persevere through hardship. WTH happened to him that he stopped believing in that?

I'm really curious about this too. Only thing that I can think of is he had issues in his personal life, what they are or were I have no idea. But it caused him to fail miserably, after doing a good job the first two years. Yeah, I know, he won with Calhouns players blah blah blah. But a national championship is no easy thing to do, and he did it. Then everything suddenly went down the toilet. Maybe someday we will know the answer.

 

[CL82]

When I brought up that CV was being delusional 2 months ago and mentioned that his delusion was not good for the team I was attacked by people on this board and told I should not share or speculate on what’s happening.

Now, not only is Hurley pointing out that it was a problem but CV is admitting publicly that he was delusional and needed a reality check.

Not asking for a pat on the back. But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

In other words, you don’t have to agree with me but don’t attack me and tell me I can’t have a certain opinion. Thanks.

I’m obviously not sensitive at all.

So you bitching uh speculating on the sidelines is the same as a coach talking about his player?

 

[freescooter]

I kind of like Vital but I’m not sure he is going to be anything more than an eh guard. And he needs to get his passion under control. Nobody cares if you hit a 3 down 15 with 2 minutes to play. Hit it down 2 and maybe it is more acceptable.

 

[jleves]

I kind of like Vital but I’m not sure he is going to be anything more than an eh guard. And he needs to get his passion under control. Nobody cares if you hit a 3 down 15 with 2 minutes to play. Hit it down 2 and maybe it is more acceptable.

It's not exactly his fault that the team seldom presented him with the opportunity to hit a three down two.

 

[BigEastLuva]

No Vital locker room drama. Probably just a lot of jokes about his delusions of NBA grandeur. He is pretty much maxed out athletically, but with greater skill can be a dangerous and more efficient weapon. There’s no hope for a tourney berth without him.

 

[methodology]

I'm really curious about this too. Only thing that I can think of is he had issues in his personal life, what they are or were I have no idea. But it caused him to fail miserably, after doing a good job the first two years. Yeah, I know, he won with Calhouns players blah blah blah. But a national championship is no easy thing to do, and he did it. Then everything suddenly went down the toilet. Maybe someday we will know the answer.

This is complete speculation but piggy backing on the bourdain thread maybe he had a bout of depression after the divorce, running the program, all the criticism he won with Calhoun guys etc and closed up. With everything that happened i wouldn't discount he was depressed and then the mounting pressure of underperforming compounded things

 

[Mokum]

This is complete speculation but piggy backing on the bourdain thread maybe he had a bout of depression after the divorce, running the program, all the criticism he won with Calhoun guys etc and closed up. With everything that happened i wouldn't discount he was depressed and then the mounting pressure of underperforming compounded things

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

[QUOTE="Mike Moran, post: 2754118, member]

... you and few others on this board not seeing any fault in his behavior at all that is causing the argument here.[/QUOTE]
Not really seeing this, which makes it like arguing against something that isn't happening. Move more toward middle ground (without letting go of the article's quotes) and you'll be fine. .

 

[rip7774]

Reading these articles I was thinking the same exact thing. Ollie in college and in the NBA was always that guy that had to out work everyone and persevere through hardship. WTH happened to him that he stopped believing in that?

It seems like after the divorce the all-in guy we knew was all-out. The super positive guy ceased to be that. This could be way simplistic or uninformed, but this has always been my assertion. It was like a switch and he became a different guy. I hope he finds happiness and fulfillment again.

 

[CL82]

This is complete speculation but piggy backing on the bourdain thread maybe he had a bout of depression after the divorce, running the program, all the criticism he won with Calhoun guys etc and closed up. With everything that happened i wouldn't discount he was depressed and then the mounting pressure of underperforming compounded things

Speculation, obviously but it does fit the pattern.

 

[DonaldDraper]

Fair enough, you put that eloquently and I respect that because you made sense. When you put it that way, yes I do stand on the side of the spectrum that leans to the “negative” side. Mainly bc I feel if a coach is bringing up these issues at all in a public light, and the player is admitting his delusion. I feel there is more going on than what’s on the surface. But using phrases like “off putting” “delusional” “empower” tells me he CV was having an affect on his teammates and it wasn’t all positive..

There have been a number of stories out lately on the different players perspectives of Hurley's arrival. I've seen them as a press effort to rebrand the team, generate interest in a program with declining interest and not much more. A worthy effort and it displays a vertical approach to coaching a team in an area outside the lines. There have been a lot of optimistic comments on all of the story threads, and personally none of it affects my interest in the team and I want to see the W's pile up before I start getting excited. Either way I'll be very engaged.

This story was different for me because I've had very similar thoughts to Moran about Vitale. I've avoided any negative posts about CV because I try to stay out of the chippiness on this board and it doesn't accomplish anything. That said, getting into altercations with a team like Central Florida, and the general attitude around his play has been suspect. It got to a point where the announcers were calling him out on it on TV, which I've never seen them do to a Uconn player. The team was in a downward spiral and it seemed like his focus was on hitting and talking trash over Ws. Through my lens he needed a major attitude adjustment. THEN he declares for the draft, which is a decision that warrants a strong adjective before "delusional," but hopefully it helped in the overall process.

This was my favorite article of its kind, because it addressed a real concern for me in the next year. Having "it" can be a blessing or a curse depending on where and how you focus that piss and vinegar. Getting into the micro level on "if" or "how much" it affected the locker room should be history at this point. I'm very happy to see that he is actively working to focus his energy on team ball.