Jacobs: Reality Check for CV

[CL82]

I don't usually use the word "cringy," but it's hard not to when people make comparisons to the women's game.

Yes, they make left hand layups better. Probably more fundamentally sound in general. But they are completely different games. Let's stop kidding ourselves about that.

And make left-handed layups. No comparison to the women's team needed.

I do follow the WBB team. I enjoy watching it and there are moments every game where players like Gabby Williams do jaw dropping things, great passes, great steals, great rebounds etc. But a part of the 'execution excellence' that we see is a function of the fact that passing lanes are wider, gaps stay open longer, players are slower. These plays wouldn't happen in the men's game because the opportunity to make them doesn't exist, at least not with same open window of time.

That said, I enjoy the WBB because within their world, they are consistently one of, if not the, best teams. Comparing the men's and woman's game doesn't make much sense though, as Geno is the first to admit.

 

[Waquoit]

Yes, they make left hand layups better. Probably more fundamentally sound in general. But they are completely different games. Let's stop kidding ourselves about that.

Some folks see the phrase "women's basketball" on the men's board and immediately go directly to "different game, irrelevant" without even considering the point. I was clearly not comparing the two games. I was highlighting one element common to all levels of basketball. Something that would make Vital a better player. So tell me, how is the skill involved to make an off-hand layup "completely different"? It isn't. All it takes is practice.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Good luck to Hurley with this one. Vital has received little guidance on the above to date, plus he thinks he's a far better player than he actually is. That's could be a tough combination to overcome.

I honestly think that you're underestimating CV's mental fortitude.
CV has "it."
All guys who max out their potential, or come close to it, have it. It's what Donyell and Rudy and Andre and Stanley didn't have quite enough of. Shabazz had it. Kemba had it. Rashad had it.
It's the belief that "I'm the man, and I can make it happen when I need to."
Can you imagine Stanley with CV's brain? My G-d, that would be an NBA all start talent right there.
But let's not confuse having "it" with being uncoachable or unwilling to change. Quite on the contrary - CV is all heart, not some chucker seeking glory (think SCIII). The guy plays super hard on both sides of the ball. Chuckers and glory hoors don't play tough D, because there aren't any easily consumable stats to be had.

CV's competitive spirit is such that he's going to do what it takes to get on the court and stay on the court. Mark it down. CV is going to do GREAT under Hurley. Bookmark this and call me a fool in January.
Don't conflate him running a bit wild under a rudderless KO system to some sort of intrinsic flaw - can't blame a man for wandering when he has no map.

 

[intlzncster]

Good luck to Hurley with this one. Vital has received little guidance on the above to date, plus he thinks he's a far better player than he actually is.

So he hasn't been coached up until this point, and you conclude that he must be uncoachable? Reasonable.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't usually use the word "cringy," but it's hard not to when people make comparisons to the women's game.

Yes, they make left hand layups better. Probably more fundamentally sound in general. But they are completely different games. Let's stop kidding ourselves about that.

And make left-handed layups. No comparison to the women's team needed.

I see the women brick plenty of layups too. That's basketball.

 

[Waquoit]

So he hasn't been coached up until this point, and you conclude that he must be uncoachable? Reasonable.

I didn't say that at all. I'm just saying that it's not a layup.

 

[Kenny11]

Da Gawd Mike Anthony wrote a similar article about CV in the courant today, except he used the term “cocksure swagger”.

 

[SeattleHoop]

When I brought up that CV was being delusional 2 months ago and mentioned that his delusion was not good for the team I was attacked by people on this board and told I should not share or speculate on what’s happening.

Now, not only is Hurley pointing out that it was a problem but CV is admitting publicly that he was delusional and needed a reality check.

Not asking for a pat on the back. But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

In other words, you don’t have to agree with me but don’t attack me and tell me I can’t have a certain opinion. Thanks.

I’m obviously not sensitive at all.

 

[MadDogRevival]

But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

If you're asking for others not to personally attack you, don't hold your breath - it's part of the culture of the board - some do it more than others (as you noted), but there's no rule against personal attacks and name-calling.

 

[Stainmaster]

When I brought up that CV was being delusional 2 months ago and mentioned that his delusion was not good for the team I was attacked by people on this board and told I should not share or speculate on what’s happening.

Now, not only is Hurley pointing out that it was a problem but CV is admitting publicly that he was delusional and needed a reality check.

Not asking for a pat on the back. But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

In other words, you don’t have to agree with me but don’t attack me and tell me I can’t have a certain opinion. Thanks.

I’m obviously not sensitive at all.

Delusion wasn’t mentioned anywhere by Hurley or CV.

Furthermore, your pathological need to claim — with absolutely zero evidence! — that CV was causing tangible locker room issues and making his teammates feel a certain way about him is just as pathetic now as it was back then. Just as you did back then, when you projected your own emotions onto CV’s teammates, you’re reading what you want to read here regardless of what is actually said by any of the parties at hand.

That earlier episode centered around your complete inability to grasp the difference between people telling you “your opinion is crap” and “you can’t have that opinion.” You basically don’t want anyone to criticize you. That’s not how the world works. This is not your safe space.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Delusion wasn’t mentioned anywhere by Hurley or CV.

Furthermore, your pathological need to claim — with absolutely zero evidence! — that CV was causing tangible locker room issues and making his teammates feel a certain way about him is just as pathetic now as it was back then. Just as you did back then, when you projected your own emotions onto CV’s teammates, you’re reading what you want to read here regardless of what is actually said by any of the parties at hand.

That earlier episode centered around your complete inability to grasp the difference between people telling you “your opinion is crap” and “you can’t have that opinion.” You basically don’t want anyone to criticize you. That’s not how the world works. This is not your safe space.

And the new UConn coach’s message to his returning junior guard?

“Be confident, not delusional.” -DAN HURLEY

Seriously??? Criticize me all you want. But when you are wrong and I am right and you continue to tell me that I am wrong. I will argue.

Read the article. It’s very clear and I can post more direct quotes if you would like. This isn’t my take..this is fact. CV was delusional! Why does that bother you so much??

 

[Stainmaster]

And the new UConn coach’s message to his returning junior guard?

“Be confident, not delusional.” -DAN HURLEY

Seriously??? Criticize me all you want. But when you are wrong and I am right and you continue to tell me that I am wrong. I will argue.

Read the article. It’s very clear and I can post more direct quotes if you would like. This isn’t my take..this is fact. CV was delusional! Why does that bother you so much??

Your bizarre vendetta against CV bothers me a lot, you’re right.

There’s also something a little off about someone who thinks criticism of his opinions is tantamount to silencing him lecturing others about who is and isn’t delusional.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Your bizarre vendetta against CV bothers me a lot, you’re right.

There’s also something a little off about someone who thinks criticism of his opinions is tantamount to silencing him lecturing others about who is and isn’t delusional.

I actually really like CV when he is able to contain his confidence to benefit the team. I like that he is wearing a UCONN Jersey. I want his confidence to permeate through the program and lift us up when we need it. I just don’t want him to be off putting to his teammates. That’s all. So I get worried there.

Okay i will admit I’m very sensitive to criticism and will try to be more open to receiving it. I just hate when I know I’m right about something but continue to be pushed as if I am wrong. It’s bothersome.

 

[Stainmaster]

I actually really like CV when he is able to contain his confidence to benefit the team. I like that he is wearing a UCONN Jersey. I want his confidence to permeate through the program and lift us up when we need it. I just don’t want him to be off putting to his teammates. That’s all. So I get worried there.

Okay i will admit I’m very sensitive to criticism and will try to be more open to receiving it. I just hate when I know I’m right about something but continue to be pushed as if I am wrong. It’s bothersome.

You have no way of knowing whether or not he put off his teammates. Instagram posts, declaring for the draft, and Hurley imploring him not to “be delusional” once do not prove that.

If you actually have sources inside the locker room that have heard players say that CV was causing problems, maybe more people would give you credit for being “right.”

 

[intlzncster]

When I brought up that CV was being delusional 2 months ago and mentioned that his delusion was not good for the team I was attacked by people on this board and told I should not share or speculate on what’s happening.

Now, not only is Hurley pointing out that it was a problem but CV is admitting publicly that he was delusional and needed a reality check.

Not asking for a pat on the back. But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

In other words, you don’t have to agree with me but don’t attack me and tell me I can’t have a certain opinion. Thanks.

I’m obviously not sensitive at all.

Hurley was talking about how his attitude/mindset was a double edged sword, which he needs to hone to one razor sharp edge. He has what no one else on the team seems to. It's a good thing, if he learns to channel it as Hurley will show him. I think Hurley views his attitude as a positive.

You're over on one side of the spectrum. Dan's in the middle.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Some Guy:*

 

[SeattleHoop]

You have no way of knowing whether or not he put off his teammates. Instagram posts, declaring for the draft, and Hurley imploring him not to “be delusional” once do not prove that.

If you actually have sources inside the locker room that have heard players say that CV was causing problems, maybe more people would give you credit for being “right.”

“He is the most competitive guy we have,” Hurley said. “The fire burns. It's just got to burn the right way and you've got to do it in a manner that isn't off-putting, for lack of a better


“I was immature, I'll say that,” Vital said. “I was, I wouldn't say selfish, but I didn't know how important it was to be thinking about other teammates.


It's about just directing it in a way that is going to empower your teammates. Be confident, not delusional.”

Are we reading the same article?? It’s pretty clear to me that CV and Hurley are both pointing out that he needs to contain his confidence so that he doesn’t affect his teammates in a negative manner or come off as arrogant in the perception of his teammates. Delusion causes chemistry issues. Why do you continue to try to make me out as some conspiracy theorist when the writing is on the wall. It’s all in the article. Hurley and CV come out and say it for me. I don’t even have to speculate.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Hurley was talking about how his attitude/mindset was a double edged sword, which he needs to hone to one razor sharp edge. He has what no one else on the team seems to. It's a good thing, if he learns to channel it as Hurley will show him. I think Hurley views his attitude as a positive.

You're over on one side of the spectrum. Dan's in the middle.

Read my other responses. I actually like CV and his confidence. Just want it contained so that he isn’t “off putting” as Hurley put it, to his teammates. I care about Uconn as a team more than I do about CVs ego. And CV will benefit from toning it down bc the team will benefit.

It’s less me bashing CV and more you and few others on this board not seeing any fault in his behavior at all that is causing the argument here.

 

[intlzncster]

It’s less me bashing CV and more you and few others on this board not seeing any fault in his behavior at all that is causing the argument here.

Where did I say that?

 

[Husky68]

Didn't Bazz have to learn how to work with other players following his sophomore year? If remember correctly was quite a bit of turmoil with the Roscoe/Oriachi/Drummond crew (not saying they were problems just that lot of moving pieces and without Kemba and Lamb being a quiet guy, the team had trouble playing effectively together). Bazz got better at leading the team his junior and much more this senior year. CV doesn't have to be Gladys Knight like Kemba or Bazz, just be one of the pips.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Where did I say that?

Well I assumed (maybe wrongly) that since me pointing out something wrong with CVs behavior was “on one side of the spectrum” you were referring to my side as extreme right? Thus if me seeing fault in CVs behavior was extreme then I assumed you didn’t have any issue with CVs behavior... Or am I wrong? Do you think CV was being delusional?

 

[intlzncster]

Well I assumed (maybe wrongly) that since me pointing out something wrong with CVs behavior was “on one side of the spectrum” you were referring to my side as extreme right? Thus if me seeing fault in CVs behavior was extreme then I assumed you didn’t have any issue with CVs behavior... Or am I wrong? Do you think CV was being delusional?

At times last year, for sure. A lot of that falls on the man in charge last year for not reigning it in though. It also sounds like he's now clued into that fact and is willing to listen.

I personally didn't have much of a problem with him last year because everybody else was so lackadaisical. I was willing to let head scratching 3s and finger wagging go, as he was one of the only guys who played hard all the time. That's a more a reflection of the overall team last year, than CV himself though.

 

[jleves]

“He is the most competitive guy we have,” Hurley said. “The fire burns. It's just got to burn the right way and you've got to do it in a manner that isn't off-putting, for lack of a better


“I was immature, I'll say that,” Vital said. “I was, I wouldn't say selfish, but I didn't know how important it was to be thinking about other teammates.


It's about just directing it in a way that is going to empower your teammates. Be confident, not delusional.”

Are we reading the same article?? It’s pretty clear to me that CV and Hurley are both pointing out that he needs to contain his confidence so that he doesn’t affect his teammates in a negative manner or come off as arrogant in the perception of his teammates. Delusion causes chemistry issues. Why do you continue to try to make me out as some conspiracy theorist when the writing is on the wall. It’s all in the article. Hurley and CV come out and say it for me. I don’t even have to speculate.

Let me take a shot at this. Using @intlzncster phrase, there's a broad spectrum between not positively affecting your team and being a problem in the locker room. There's nothing in any of your quotes that suggest he was a locker room problem - more so that his play may not have been as team oriented as it should be. Your take certainly suggests the really bad end of the spectrum instead of something more in the middle or not that big of an issue that will be easily addressed.

 

[SeattleHoop]

At times last year, for sure. A lot of that falls on the man in charge last year for not reigning it in though. It also sounds like he's now clued into that fact and is willing to listen.

I personally didn't have much of a problem with him last year because everybody else was so lackadaisical. I was willing to let head scratching 3s and finger wagging go, as he was one of the only guys who played hard all the time. That's a more a reflection of the overall team last year, than CV himself though.

Okay so I don’t think we actually have a disagreement. Just a different point of focus. I agree the whole team had issues and the whole culture needs fixing but I have been hyper focused on CV especially since this article is about him and his attitude specifically.
Also because he was making some extremely significant decisions during the off season.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Let me take a shot at this. Using @intlzncster phrase, there's a broad spectrum between not positively affecting your team and being a problem in the locker room. There's nothing in any of your quotes that suggest he was a locker room problem - more so that his play may not have been as team oriented as it should be. Your take certainly suggests the really bad end of the spectrum instead of something more in the middle or not that big of an issue that will be easily addressed.

Fair enough, you put that eloquently and I respect that because you made sense. When you put it that way, yes I do stand on the side of the spectrum that leans to the “negative” side. Mainly bc I feel if a coach is bringing up these issues at all in a public light, and the player is admitting his delusion. I feel there is more going on than what’s on the surface. But using phrases like “off putting” “delusional” “empower” tells me he CV was having an affect on his teammates and it wasn’t all positive..

 

[Mokum]

Reading these articles I was thinking the same exact thing. Ollie in college and in the NBA was always that guy that had to out work everyone and persevere through hardship. WTH happened to him that he stopped believing in that?

I'm really curious about this too. Only thing that I can think of is he had issues in his personal life, what they are or were I have no idea. But it caused him to fail miserably, after doing a good job the first two years. Yeah, I know, he won with Calhouns players blah blah blah. But a national championship is no easy thing to do, and he did it. Then everything suddenly went down the toilet. Maybe someday we will know the answer.

 

[CL82]

When I brought up that CV was being delusional 2 months ago and mentioned that his delusion was not good for the team I was attacked by people on this board and told I should not share or speculate on what’s happening.

Now, not only is Hurley pointing out that it was a problem but CV is admitting publicly that he was delusional and needed a reality check.

Not asking for a pat on the back. But I would like to point out for future reference that it would be nice not to be scolded (superjohn and a few others) for having a reasonable opinion based on pretty clear evidence (CVs Instagram posts and him trying to go to the NBA was clear evidence of delusion)

In other words, you don’t have to agree with me but don’t attack me and tell me I can’t have a certain opinion. Thanks.

I’m obviously not sensitive at all.

So you bitching uh speculating on the sidelines is the same as a coach talking about his player?

 

[freescooter]

I kind of like Vital but I’m not sure he is going to be anything more than an eh guard. And he needs to get his passion under control. Nobody cares if you hit a 3 down 15 with 2 minutes to play. Hit it down 2 and maybe it is more acceptable.

 

[jleves]

I kind of like Vital but I’m not sure he is going to be anything more than an eh guard. And he needs to get his passion under control. Nobody cares if you hit a 3 down 15 with 2 minutes to play. Hit it down 2 and maybe it is more acceptable.

It's not exactly his fault that the team seldom presented him with the opportunity to hit a three down two.

 

[BigEastLuva]

No Vital locker room drama. Probably just a lot of jokes about his delusions of NBA grandeur. He is pretty much maxed out athletically, but with greater skill can be a dangerous and more efficient weapon. There’s no hope for a tourney berth without him.