J. Adams under Ollie & Hurley

[mauconnfan]

Bazz struggled to figure out how to lead in his Soph season. That process, including JC's coaching bore fruit his junior and senior seasons.

I've said this before Mau, and it is speculation on my part though there is anecdotal evidence to support it, I think KO's biggest weakness is that he expected his players to act like pro's and do things they needed to do to develop. I think he was frustrated that they didn't. No one held KO's hand as he went from contract to contract, he just got it done.

Again speculation on my part as I try to figure out what went so wrong after such a great start.

CL82 I have no doubt in my mind now he didn’t live up to what the job required I’m well over his failures now. But people like to believe he was never a good coach and never coached his last few years. In this case we see a kid who’s been the same kid for 3 1/2 years so we need to realize the frustrations a coach like Hurley is having trying to change his mental weaknesses. By all accounts a good kid and intelligent he should have been a better player easily by now if he wanted to. This is not about how good KO coached him it’s about a kid we need to be better and his coach is asking him to drink the KoolAid but he’s not even sipping it.

I still hold out hope I really do but it’s all on him no one else. Hears hoping.

 

[casual-yardin]

That's quite an indictment. Ollie was frustrated because he actually needed to coach his players? As if he was fully formed when he came to Storrs. JC didn't need to coach him at all and his staff never gave him guidance to aid his improvement?

No. He coached the players. To use a football analogy you are given a playbook or otherwise have a laptop or whatever with you plays on it. You practice the plays in practice but you are expected to know the plays and learn them on your own. If someone wasn't studying the plays on their own Ollie got frustrated as most coaches would. Ollie the player would always know the plays so he wouldn't understand why everyone wouldn't. Ollie the player was probably always in the gym getting better. Ollie the player was probably always early for practice. etc.

 

[ctchamps]

That's quite an indictment. Ollie was frustrated because he actually needed to coach his players? As if he was fully formed when he came to Storrs. JC didn't need to coach him at all and his staff never gave him guidance to aid his improvement?

Bazz struggled to figure out how to lead in his Soph season. That process, including JC's coaching bore fruit his junior and senior seasons.

I've said this before Mau, and it is speculation on my part though there is anecdotal evidence to support it, I think KO's biggest weakness is that he expected his players to act like pro's and do things they needed to do to develop. I think he was frustrated that they didn't. No one held KO's hand as he went from contract to contract, he just got it done.

Again speculation on my part as I try to figure out what went so wrong after such a great start.

I've felt something similar CL. KO struggled to understand that not every kid playing basketball, especially kids with talent, would do every thing in their power to improve. He failed to understand motivation and drive. He mistakenly believed most kids would pursue their development in the way he and Rickey approached the game. That led to a cycle of frustration and incorrect handling of players.

Two years ago people indicted KO for being overly aggressive with his coaching approach to players. Haven't seen that accusation brought up in quite some time. That narrative changed last year to an accusation he was indifferent. That latter accusation prevails today and seems to have obscured the viewpoint made two years ago. I believe we ignore it because it puts the entire failure on KO and eliminates the players role in any failure (although good coaches should be able to have the ability to understand player psychology).

The various perspectives in this thread concerning Jalen are the first honest efforts by posters to examine a players attributes without the lingering resentment to KO, although that resentment is still evidenced such as by your reluctance to admit KO had anything to do with the development of Bazz, Boat or any of the players on that championship team. KO was more than fine with players who were hungry huskies!

 

[intlzncster]

I remember Kemba's three point shot improved significantly from soph - junior year. Why can't Jalen improve his half way through his senior year? Easy to assume his and Kemba's work ethics are night and day.

It just kinda seemed that way imo because he was such a good player. But Kemba and Jalen are the same 3pt shooter percentage-wise (not looking at how those points come). Kemba went from 27% to 34% to 33% respectively. Jalen went 27% to 35% to 32%. Quite similar.

Kemba just impacted the game in so many ways it didn't matter.

 

[CL82]

That's quite an indictment. Ollie was frustrated because he actually needed to coach his players? As if he was fully formed when he came to Storrs. JC didn't need to coach him at all and his staff never gave him guidance to aid his improvement?

It’s speculation but it seems to fit the known data.

 

[Hoophound]

Jalen’s lack of a great jumper is killing him. He can’t burn you from deep most nights, yet he’s a little undersized, so finishing at the rim or in the paint is more of a challenge. Defenders can back off him outside, making it harder to drive by them in the first place. Jalen is the type of player that needs a jumpshot. If he could shoot like Bazz, he’s be the best player in the country or close to it. The whole floor would open up for him.

 

[Hoophound]

It just kinda seemed that way imo because he was such a good player. But Kemba and Jalen are the same 3pt shooter percentage-wise (not looking at how those points come). Kemba went from 27% to 34% to 33% respectively. Jalen went 27% to 35% to 32%. Quite similar.

Kemba just impacted the game in so many ways it didn't matter.

Kemba had a jumpshot though. His pull up jumper was deadly. Jalen scores at the rim. A nasty crossover with a knockdown jumper from 15-17’ like Kemba had would make a huge difference in Jalen’s game.

 

[Whtdmd]

I've felt something similar CL. KO struggled to understand that not every kid playing basketball, especially kids with talent, would do every thing in their power to improve. He failed to understand motivation and drive. He mistakenly believed most kids would pursue their development in the way he and Rickey approached the game. That led to a cycle of frustration and incorrect handling of players.

Two years ago people indicted KO for being overly aggressive with his coaching approach to players. Haven't seen that accusation brought up in quite some time. That narrative changed last year to an accusation he was indifferent. That latter accusation prevails today and seems to have obscured the viewpoint made two years ago. I believe we ignore it because it puts the entire failure on KO and eliminates the players role in any failure (although good coaches should be able to have the ability to understand player psychology).

The various perspectives in this thread concerning Jalen are the first honest efforts by posters to examine a players attributes without the lingering resentment to KO, although that resentment is still evidenced such as by your reluctance to admit KO had anything to do with the development of Bazz, Boat or any of the players on that championship team. KO was more than fine with players who were hungry huskies!

None of the transfer players are any better with the exception of Durham. Enoch and Jackson are the same players despite being two yrs older. None of the current UCONN players has taken a giant leap under Hurley. KO was dealt a bad hand with injuries to key players. I think he will still be the coach if AG was never injured

 

[Huskybass]

None of the transfer players are any better with the exception of Durham. Enoch and Jackson are the same players despite being two yrs older. None of the current UCONN players has taken a giant leap under Hurley. KO was dealt a bad hand with injuries to key players. I think he will still be the coach if AG was never injured

Last time I checked, Vance Jackson was averaging 11 and 7. We dont have a frontcourt player who averages anywhere near those numbers. Also, Vital is considerably better under Hurley. Is it really that hard to be objective?

 

[mauconnfan]

Last time I checked, Vance Jackson was averaging 11 and 7. We dont have a frontcourt player who averages anywhere near those numbers. Also, Vital is considerably better under Hurley. Is it really that hard to be objective?

Vital has gotten better every year. He was better last year by far than his freshman year when he couldn’t make a lay up or finish. He was our leading rebounder last year and is again. He turned it over and still does but one thing is consistent he works hard to get better and plays hard every play. Simple difference between he and Jalen is he gets up early and spends time in the gym as much as he can. We saw Hurley tell us he beat him to the gym a few times. If Jalen had his passion he’d be better too.

 

[Huskybass]

Vital has gotten better every year. He was better last year by far than his freshman year when he couldn’t make a lay up or finish. He was our leading rebounder last year and is again. He turned it over and still does but one thing is consistent he works hard to get better and plays hard every play. Simple difference between he and Jalen is he gets up early and spends time in the gym as much as he can. We saw Hurley tell us he beat him to the gym a few times. If Jalen had his passion he’d be better too.

I certainly agree with all that, I was just responding to a post that said the transfers and current players hadn't gotten better under Hurley or elsewhere. Vance and Vital were 2 examples that disprove that.

As far as Jalen, he is who he is. He will never have Vital's heart. If he did, he would dominate some games and we would likely be a Tournament team. Hard to say that with certainty though since the frontcourt has been underwhelming for the most part.

 

[pj]

Last time I checked, Vance Jackson was averaging 11 and 7. We dont have a frontcourt player who averages anywhere near those numbers. Also, Vital is considerably better under Hurley. Is it really that hard to be objective?

You're criticizing Ollie's retention. Jackson had 8 and 4 at UConn two years ago against stronger opponents with similar shooting percentages, his extra points are due to greater shooting volume, his extra rebounds are an improvement but you'd expect that from a player 2 years older, and his turnovers are also up. It's fair to call him the same player he was here.

Vital is more selective in his shooting which is good, it's led to him hitting a higher percentage and taking fewer shots for significantly better efficiency. Other stats aren't much different. Turnovers are up, assists and rebounds and fouls are the same.

 

[HHusky]

[QUOTE="Huskybass, post: 2973376, Hard to say that with certainty though since the frontcourt has been underwhelming for the most part.[/QUOTE]

Has anyone ever considered why our frontcourt has underwhelmed the last ~3
yrs or so? Mostly I've heard talent. But, I wonder sometimes whether our guards work hard enough to get the ball to our bigs using the best timing and angles for entry passes. There's passes and then there's "effective passes" that can make or break a frontcourt's success. Anyone else think this element could be at play here?

 

[CL82]

I've felt something similar CL. KO struggled to understand that not every kid playing basketball, especially kids with talent, would do every thing in their power to improve. He failed to understand motivation and drive. He mistakenly believed most kids would pursue their development in the way he and Rickey approached the game. That led to a cycle of frustration and incorrect handling of players.

Two years ago people indicted KO for being overly aggressive with his coaching approach to players. Haven't seen that accusation brought up in quite some time. That narrative changed last year to an accusation he was indifferent. That latter accusation prevails today and seems to have obscured the viewpoint made two years ago. I believe we ignore it because it puts the entire failure on KO and eliminates the players role in any failure (although good coaches should be able to have the ability to understand player psychology).I

The various perspectives in this thread concerning Jalen are the first honest efforts by posters to examine a players attributes without the lingering resentment to KO, although that resentment is still evidenced such as by your reluctance to admit KO had anything to do with the development of Bazz, Boat or any of the players on that championship team. KO was more than fine with players who were hungry huskies!

I think we are saying similar things. We are both struggling to understand how Kevin could be so successful his first two years but then struggle so mightily when things should have been very favorable to him. You believe it was that the kids on the team suddenly weren't motivated. I guess that could be it. Just bad luck. I suspect, but do not know that the difference is simply that our HOF coach may have been better at developing kids. Kevin had the skill set to coach kids who had already developed leadership skills but he hadn't learned how to instill those skills at this point in relatively young coaching careers.

I base that guess on a few things. It seems to me that the post Calhoun kids' development seems to be flat. Think about how Kevin's alleged summer development plan for Vance was "get in the gym." Consider how Purvis was more successful before and after his UConn tenure. I guess it all could be bad luck, but I suspect that it was a skill set that KO hadn't developed yet. Note that you can reach that conclusion without the sophistry of liking/disliking KO. It makes sense of the facts, though I fully admit that are likely other ways to put the pieces together.

But it could be that KO just got all lazy or unmotivated kids too, I guess. That seems less likely to me. That may be my natural bias against 'throwing kids under the bus.' At that age most young men are pretty malleable in the hands of a skilled teacher.

 

[intlzncster]

Kemba had a jumpshot though. His pull up jumper was deadly. Jalen scores at the rim. A nasty crossover with a knockdown jumper from 15-17’ like Kemba had would make a huge difference in Jalen’s game.

Absolutely. Kemba was better at every level, sans 3pt (it's kind of a wash there, though I'd rather have Kemba taking the shot). Kemba's ability to play at all three levels, plus charity stripe, makes it no contest.

I was only speaking 3pt shooting with OP.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Rico and Blackbird, nice analysis. Makes sense. The problem is Al is so small for a 2 guard, so it would be tough to swap positions.

He is as big or bigger than RB who did okay at the 2
Jaylen’s Shot is a mystery his jumber from 15-20 is normal further out he takes that hybrid shot.
I want to review some film of him in 2016-17 before the ankle sprain .
It could be a bad habit he picked up protecting the ankle.

 

[glastonbury50]

Last time I checked, Vance Jackson was averaging 11 and 7. We dont have a frontcourt player who averages anywhere near those numbers. Also, Vital is considerably better under Hurley. Is it really that hard to be objective?

Polly too.

 

[Huskybass]

He is as big or bigger than RB who did okay at the 2
Jaylen’s Shot is a mystery his jumber from 15-20 is normal further out he takes that hybrid shot.
I want to review some film of him in 2016-17 before the ankle sprain .
It could be a bad habit he picked up protecting the ankle.

Boat seemed to play a lot bigger than Gilbert due to his wingspan and or leaping ability or how he used his athleticism. I don't remember Boat ever getting bottled up down low by big men to the extent that Gilbert does. So despite their similar height I think Boat played taller than Gilbert does. That said, I think Gilbert will become an excellent player, however, I believe his future is really more at the point guard position than as a 2 guard.

 

[CL82]

Boat seemed to play a lot bigger than Gilbert due to his wingspan and or leaping ability or how he used his athleticism. I don't remember Boat ever getting bottled up down low by big men to the extent that Gilbert does. So despite their similar height I think Boat played taller than Gilbert does. That said, I think Gilbert will become an excellent player, however, I believe his future is really more at the point guard position than as a 2 guard.

Boat was a freak. His speed, quickness, agility were amazing to watch. He was a typical NYC type guard (even though he was from Chicago) who just drove until he scored, was fouled, was called for a charge or turned it over. Once he learned how to use his speed selectively, he was impressive.

He also was one of our best defenders. I'd put him up there with Ricky, Lyman, and Bazz. His college career is very underrated. We don't win in 2014 without his defense.

 

[ctchamps]

Kemba had a jumpshot though. His pull up jumper was deadly. Jalen scores at the rim. A nasty crossover with a knockdown jumper from 15-17’ like Kemba had would make a huge difference in Jalen’s game.

My observation is that Jalen has a better midrange jumper than Kemba had when he played at UConn. The difference is Kemba was significantly quicker and much better at creating space between himself and his defender. And if the defender played Kemba tightly he was able to drive to the basket and either get fouled or complete a layup at a much better rate than Jalen which worked to Kemba's advantage in the midrange game because of the way he had to be guarded.

 

[ctchamps]

I think we are saying similar things. We are both struggling to understand how Kevin could be so successful his first two years but then struggle so mightily when things should have been very favorable to him. You believe it was that the kids on the team suddenly weren't motivated. I guess that could be it. Just bad luck. I suspect, but do not know that the difference is simply that our HOF coach may have been better at developing kids. Kevin had the skill set to coach kids who had already developed leadership skills but he hadn't learned how to instill those skills at this point in relatively young coaching careers.

I base that guess on a few things. It seems to me that the post Calhoun kids' development seems to be flat. Think about how Kevin's alleged summer development plan for Vance was "get in the gym." Consider how Purvis was more successful before and after his UConn tenure. I guess it all could be bad luck, but I suspect that it was a skill set that KO hadn't developed yet. Note that you can reach that conclusion without the sophistry of liking/disliking KO. It makes sense of the facts, though I fully admit that are likely other ways to put the pieces together.

But it could be that KO just got all lazy or unmotivated kids too, I guess. That seems less likely to me. That may be my natural bias against 'throwing kids under the bus.' At that age most young men are pretty malleable in the hands of a skilled teacher.

Rodney played better his junior year at UConn than he played as a freshman at NC State. His play at the end of his junior year had people believing he was going to be a major contributor towards a successful season the following year. His senior year he crashed and burned relative to our expectations (as did the season). Maybe you have forgotten but there were two off season tragedies to family members. One was his god brother who died of a heart attack while scrimmaging just a few weeks before they were to play against one another in a tournament. The other I believe was killed in a violent act. I know posters claim players should be able to handle this type of adversity. I would laugh at this if it wasn't so tragically obvious that some of the same people making those statements can't handle a game loss or a dismal season. I guess I have a different sense of values regarding stoicism. And yes there were many posters who threw Rodney under the bus that season. It was before most of us turned our venom on KO.

There could be merit to all the alleges people have been making. I have respect for some of the posters who have made them. However I do have reservations which prevent me from completely accepting what people have related.

There's always a bias to any issue of controversy or negativity. JC was thrown under the bus because he was strongly disliked by Hathaway, Emmert and the press. At least he had the respect of his players and fans but that didn't prevent him from being rail loaded by people with an axe to grind. I can't go all Whaler on you and condemn the current AD but it would not be a stretch of the imagination for DB, or people around him that support him, to be the source of those rumors whether they had merit or not because they were on the hot seat. Extricating the university from KO's contract was probably the only means of not getting fired.

Emmert had his toady in Hathaway. Bennet had his toady in Glenn Miller. We hated the process JC went through because of his success. We are backing a similar if not the same process because we hate KO's failure. I understand the drive of self preservation. Yes it extends to abstractions such as teams we support. And I understand the games we play to make people believe we are not being selfish over our actions. We claim our condemnation is because it's about the program or the university when in actuality we are angry because our happiness was not supported. In all the KO threads this past year I only saw one post that honestly stated this.

We have no idea if what was being reported in this forum was first, second or third hand observation. Or the veracity of the reports. But if enough people state it then it becomes fact. Again that was what happened to JC over Nate Miles on a national level (and condemned by the majority of posters not named freescooter in this forum). In a similar manner Jerome Dyson was dragged through the mud by people in this forum his senior year. I hope that this forum doesn't turn on Jalen, but if the season plays out worse than the consensus you can be certain that is exactly what will happen because Hurley is still in a honeymoon phase.

 

[CL82]

I hope that this forum doesn't turn on Jalen, but if the season plays out worse than the consensus you can be certain that is exactly what will happen because Hurley is still in a honeymoon phase.

Agree fully. I'm never a big fan of throwing the players under the bus. Again, I wonder where he would be now if he had Calhoun or Hurley develop him for all four years.

The season's not over though. He may pull it together. Keep in mind as well that injury or illness may be contributing to relatively flat play. Whatever it is I'm rooting for him.

 

[blackbird]

Again, every year he played Jalen out of position.

What was emphasized to Jalen? Nothing that we know of. Jalen could play how he wanted, and was never corrected.

Jalen’s shot being low and awkward. That’s coaching.

The lack of talent besides Jalen is also a factor in how he plays now. Recruiting is on the coach.

A lack of quality offense, in which Jalen could learn to use his skills in the context of, instead of one on one or drive and pass. Coaching.

No one else got better either. That’s coaching.

To me this is a silly conversation. It’s a coach’s job to make players better. Jalen needed to put in work too, but it’s obvious the coach’s didn’t either.

Furthermore, it’s clear he’s coachable. You can tell by his reaction to being punished (immediate acceptance) and his relationship with both Hurley and Ollie. He’s been loyal to the program, and wants to improve. He needed to be shown how.

He would have been a different player under a better coach.

 

[ctkaiser]

I disagree. That was Jalens A game....I just don’t think he is that good. He doesn’t shoot the 3 well, he turns the ball over way too often, and he can’t score with his left hand. He is who he is at this point.

Strange as it may seem Jalen is playing now with the same skills, ability and body composition he came in with as a freshman. Only other player I can think of is who was like that was Brimah. It may seem like,a harsh evaluation but think about it.

 

[mauconnfan]

Again, every year he played Jalen out of position.

What was emphasized to Jalen? Nothing that we know of. Jalen could play how he wanted, and was never corrected.

Jalen’s shot being low and awkward. That’s coaching.

The lack of talent besides Jalen is also a factor in how he plays now. Recruiting is on the coach.

A lack of quality offense, in which Jalen could learn to use his skills in the context of, instead of one on one or drive and pass. Coaching.

No one else got better either. That’s coaching.

To me this is a silly conversation. It’s a coach’s job to make players better. Jalen needed to put in work too, but it’s obvious the coach’s didn’t either.

Furthermore, it’s clear he’s coachable. You can tell by his reaction to being punished (immediate acceptance) and his relationship with both Hurley and Ollie. He’s been loyal to the program, and wants to improve. He needed to be shown how.

He would have been a different player under a better coach.

Polley's better. Vital is better. Carlton is better. Coaching. They're learning from their new coach aren't they? He doesn't even need to be "better" he just needs to be smarter and care about the basketball. The kids a playmaker we've seen it need to get that back while finding an understanding of less TO's.

Sure coaching had a little to do with it but not anymore this is a very silly conversation, it's time for him to man up that's all and he has time. Let's hope he does because we win 9 in the AAC at best of he doesn't become the 1st teamer so many thought he would be.

By the way his shot is not awkward he has a very nice mid range jumper but he has settled with the set shot basically for the 3 for some reason. Love to see more pull up in the lane from him again.

 

[Huskybass]

All this speculation as to why Jalen isnt who we expected him to be is really silly. Jalen is a very good college player who isnt quite the leader or dominant player many hoped he would become. His first three years were in a funky environment and this year is under a new coach with a new system and seemingly higher expectations. Will he find his way and be on par with our elite guards of the past? It doesnt seem like it currently, but it sure would be fun if I was wrong on this one.

 

[Huskybass]

Boat was a freak. His speed, quickness, agility were amazing to watch. He was a typical NYC type guard (even though he was from Chicago) who just drove until he scored, was fouled, was called for a charge or turned it over. Once he learned how to use his speed selectively, he was impressive.

He also was one of our best defenders. I'd put him up there with Ricky, Lyman, and Bazz. His college career is very underrated. We don't win in 2014 without his defense.

Boat is my favorite Husky due to his athleticism, swagger and perhaps most importantly how he worked to become an elite defender by 2013-14. He got up in guys' grills so much you could tell they were just going to be off their game. He literally took players out of games from a productivity standpoint due to his relentless defense and athleticism. It was beautiful to watch. I believe Boat had the ball in his hands as the buzzer sounded in the National Championship game. I was thrilled for the kid. What an awesome finish.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Bazz struggled to figure out how to lead in his Soph season. That process, including JC's coaching bore fruit his junior and senior seasons.

I've said this before Mau, and it is speculation on my part though there is anecdotal evidence to support it, I think KO's biggest weakness is that he expected his players to act like pro's and do things they needed to do to develop. I think he was frustrated that they didn't. No one held KO's hand as he went from contract to contract, he just got it done.

Again speculation on my part as I try to figure out what went so wrong after such a great start.

You're on the right track, and you can trace KO's success or failure along the lines of what he did with JC's recruits vs. his own recruits.

Simply put, he could coach up JC's guys, who were tough, disciplined, and eager to learn. Bazz, Boat, Giffey, etc.

In contrast, he had no idea how to identify that sort of player on the recruiting trail, no idea how to get them to buy in, and no idea how to instill those traits in those that needed a push. Daniel Hamilton, Purvis, Larrier, Adams, etc.

 

[casual-yardin]

You're on the right track, and you can trace KO's success or failure along the lines of what he did with JC's recruits vs. his own recruits.

Simply put, he could coach up JC's guys, who were tough, disciplined, and eager to learn. Bazz, Boat, Giffey, etc.

In contrast, he had no idea how to identify that sort of player on the recruiting trail, no idea how to get them to buy in, and no idea how to instill those traits in those that needed a push. Daniel Hamilton, Purvis, Larrier, Adams, etc.

Yet those players were all rated higher...

 

[Caronimo]

Would you consider taking Jalen out of the starting 5? I think he needs some tough motivation and discipline.