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Isn't Net Rankings using metrics to come up with quality and efficiency? So if it has it, and UCONN is high up, why throw away Net Rankings?
It's supposed to be difficult.
- Thread starter RedStickHusky
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But it's been more than just "An injury." It's been 6. And of the 6 one is a former NPOY. How many NPOY's have been out for most of the season in the past 10 years to return near the end? You can't lump the Paige injury to a much lesser player and try to call them near equal. Not saying oyu are doing that but you are minimizing the injury factor imo in which the NCAA clearly states they take injuries into account.
I agree that the who we beat up won’t scare anyone it’s the way we beat them up. The eye test should have people a little worried about the way you cons plane. With most teams if you lock up one or two of their offensive players you take away most of their scoring with Connecticut it can be spread out among multiple players. With Connecticut it’s a little more pick your poison as to who Beat you.
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It is always better to get the hard work done early. While I fear, SC and Stanford, with either I, with the way the 9 are playing, the tenacious defense, 6 decent scorers I like Uconn WCBB chances. Boston is a factor but Geno negated Griner for long streches, with a new freshman and later with a bench player (who was effective). If Uconn can score from the outside Geno will handle Boston.
HuskyNan
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Our friend @visitingcock did the research, as of 2/8/22
visitingcock
JoinedFeb 8, 2016Messages1,806Reaction Score2,6811. UConn-UCLA (ABC) 839,000
2. Tenn at UConn (Fox) 694,000
3. SCar - NCState (ESPN) 506,000
4. SCar - UConn (ESPN) 489,000
5. Ole Miss-SCar (ESPN) 405,000
6. Stanford - Tenn (ESPN2) 365,000
7. Louisville- NC State (ESPN) 364,000
8. Stanford -SCar (ESPN2) 314,000
9. Kentucky - SCar (ESPN) 294,000
10. Louisville -UConn (ESPN) 281,000
11. Kentucky- Louisville (ESPN) 280,000
12. Michigan v Louisville (ESPN) 280,000
13. Texas - Baylor ( ESPN 2 ) 258,000
14. Baylor - Michigan (ESPN) 242,000
15. Maryland - SCar (ESPN) 235,000
16. Texas - Tenn (ESPN) 232,000
17. Duke - Louisville (ESPN) 224,000
18. UConn -GaTech (ESPN) 222,000
19. UConn - Oregon (ESPN) 211,000
Net Ranking is not perfect and not the sole metrics used for seeding. Otherwise North Carolina (#6), BYU (#9), and Virginia Tech (#10) would all be hosting in NCAA.
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UPdated:
- Tenn at SCar (ABC) 876,000 (preceded by Gameday)
- UConn-UCLA (ABC) 839,000
- Tennessee-UConn FOX 658,00
- UConn-Marquette FOX 525,000
- SCar - NCState (ESPN) 506,000
- SCar - UConn (ESPN) 489,000
- Notre Dame-Louisville ESPN 460,000
- Ole Miss-SCar (ESPN) 405,000
- 2/10 SCar Kentucky ESPN 402,000
- Stanford - Tenn (ESPN2) 365,000
- Louisville- NC State (ESPN) 364,000
- Stanford -SCar (ESPN2) 314,000
- Kentucky - SCar (ESPN) 294,000
- Louisville -UConn (ESPN) 281,000
- Kentucky- Louisville (ESPN) 280,000
- Michigan v Louisville (ESPN) 280,000
- Texas - Baylor ( ESPN 2 ) 258,000
- Baylor - Michigan (ESPN) 242,000
- Maryland - SCar (ESPN) 235,000
- Texas - Tenn (ESPN) 232,000
- Duke - Louisville (ESPN) 224,000
- UConn -GaTech (ESPN) 222,000
- UConn - Oregon (ESPN) 211,000
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Sorry @sun ... IF UConn were to become the overall #5 seed, i.e., the strongest of the #2s, And IF the "S" curve is properly used, the #5 goes into the bracket with the overall #4... which is NC State in Bridgeport. IF UConn wins the Bridgeport region, they would then play the overall #1, South Carolina in the Final 4.
Go Huskies
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NCSt is the ACC reg season champs and if the win the ACCT they will be the 3rd 1 seed and Louis will go to Bridgeport.
Or the committee might send Louis. to Wichita since they are closer than NCSt. One year UConn tied for the reg season title with NDame and then won the BET, beating NDame in the final. The committee (in their "wisdon") made Ndame the top seed in the east and sent UConn out west.
Reading all the factors the committee is given to consider they can come up with a psuedo- reasonable justification to do almost anything.
The question no one seems to be able to answer is who gets to write the "policies and Procedures" of the committee. Those rules determine everything and yet we are never told who writes and approves them.
Boss Tweed, when asked about an upcoming NY election, "I don't care who wins as long as I get to pick the nominees".
CL82
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CL82
NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
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Apparently the replay got 50,000 less viewers.
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You're right, I made a mistake about Michigan being #5 when they're #8.
The Feb. 28th reveal sent the weakest #2 seed Michigan (8) and the strongest #3 seed UConn (9) to the #1 region overall.
But what the committee did does seem to balance out the Greensboro region and could help UConn with an easier path to the Elite 8.
Committee touts South Carolina, Stanford, NC State and Louisville as top seeds in final reveal
Fourteen days from Selection Sunday, the NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Committee named South Carolina, Stanford, NC State and Louisville as the four No. 1 seeds as part of the committee’s final top-16 reveal of the season. The four teams have combined to win 42 straight games going into March.
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One factor with viewer comparisons is when the game was played. Was the game on when the NFL was playing or after the NFL season. Was it a noon game or a 4PM game (1pm on the west coast) or maybe it was a 9pm game in California (midnight on the east coast).
Lets wait and see the numbers for the NCAA tournament now that all the games are viewable live in their entirety. That would be a fairer measurement.
Lets wait and see the numbers for the NCAA tournament now that all the games are viewable live in their entirety. That would be a fairer measurement.
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Not picking on you MD#12Fan, you are just one of many who point out the unfairness to Dawn (or any of the other high seeds that might face us as a lower seed). I can't remember a year in the last 20 years where the seeding was totally "fair". It doesn't matter, you just need to be the last team standing. In the games for the final four you're almost always going to be facing a good team: If you're a team that knows you won't win it all and is just trying to get to let's say the sweet 16, seedings matter; if you're trying to win it all, you're going to have to play them anyway.
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But the poster I replied to paraphrase said "that you have to throw out the metrics to grant UCONN . . ." Yet aren't you agreeing with me that there is metrics? That was my point.
As for perfection, which metrics is perfect? And which metric can you cite that accounts for injuries other than some form of an injury metric? Especially what UCONN went through? Regardless of how you felt they should have performed without 6 other players the fact is they didn't have them. That should count. And it should count enormously when it's a former NPOY that was ,missing and is now back. That's not a "normal" addition to the team (and to WCBB).
So we're supposed to throw out the metrics that can be favorable to UCONN and minimize the injury situation because some fans want to stick out their chest and say "So what, we're UCONN?"
I have to say - I have a little of that in me too. Though I'm not so into that FF streak other than to argue with some on here that make comments like "Geno has jumped the shark. . . which was said on here and some (Note I say "some" not "all) other over-the-top criticisms. Instead, I'm looking at it like UCONN is playing with house money. If they get a 3 seed so be it. I think it very silly as of this moment. But maybe after BE I won't. But this stinks for SC. I know this is a UCONN board and we don't give a damn about nearly any other team, but imo I'm only trying to be fair. I know some (maybe you as well) don't think that I am.
But imo one issue is SC deserves better. It has nothing to do with them "being scared." Just remember if in a few years from now if the shoe were on the other foot and a similar swap happened and UCONN gets stuck with a team potentially like UCONN is in our region, then no one can tell me "You were pretty silent when UCONN was a 3 seed . . . so you have nothing to complain about."
So if SC beats UCONN now and Boston whips us. But next year she is hurt along with 5 other core players from SC while UCONN's next season they don't have much a center but are awesome number 1 -and SC comes back healthy and Boston is back and it appears they are peaking - and they put SC in our region; then yeah I'll probably complain again about the selection process.
My post is specifically responding to the Net ranking system and not relating to the original poster. In my personal opinion, the NET model needs to be recalibrated to reconsider its weights on margin of victory. I suspect (without trying to review the raw numbers feeding to the models) UCONN, NC, and other's teams have many games with large victory margin against more weaker team are skewing their relative position more than it should. I believe the committee realizes that and added their subjective view of how they would seed teams. Unfortunately, no one can exactly know how they did it unless you are part of the group. If NET or any ranking system is perfect, we wouldn't need the committee anymore
.Injury assessment has always been difficult to assess. While committee should consider it, but it really should weight its consideration more on actual game they can observe because that is less subjective than these hypothetical scenarios people are constructing. UConn looks great the last few games. But how would they react to a significantly better defense from a team like Louisville, where the players are more athletic, organize, and deep relative to the BE teams? How would these player coming back (I don't assume they are back to 100% yet) handle this kind of pressure the entire game? Louisville might be very inconsistent on its offense, their defense is top notch and consistent. These are things Q3 and Q4 defense will not be able to expose. Thus using them as eye test is not conclusive.
Lastly, regarding to the case of fairness, I think the biggest unfairness is to place one team with home court advantage against another team that is higher and close in seeding. I understand the economic reasoning, but it does not make it fair. I personally think a compromise can be make to elevate UCONN to a 2 seed, but I hope they are not in Bridgeport. I rather see them show up at Final Four because they are really that good and without any advantage. I rather put my focus on watching a beautiful game of basketball between two teams on neutral setting.
UCONN being a 3 seed and not playing at Bridgeport due to past injuries isn't a bad things. It developed player more so than they would otherwise and gives player opportunity to learn to be more fluid and creative with their role. It also exposes some development weaknesses in the system. UCONN's bench typically consists of players ranks higher than most other team's starter (Yes, even the two freshman that hardly see the court). It is not unreasonable for people to expect more (maybe even the committee). Geno will probably get alot out of this as I don't think he ever has to deal with something like this before. Maybe he will modify his system to integrate new players earlier. I honestly believe it is good for the team as a whole. At the end of the day, this team's ceiling is so super high, every team has to go through SC to get the title. Playing them in the regional is not so bad. Also Stanford and other top seeds are well coached as well. Any of them can still give us a great final.
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This is a good post but you do agree with me that the NCAA has a metric at its disposal to use, right? You may not like the metric but the NCAA has adopted it, so they could use it how they see fit, right?My post is specifically responding to the Net ranking system and not relating to the original poster. In my personal opinion, the NET model needs to be recalibrated to reconsider its weights on margin of victory. I suspect (without trying to review the raw numbers feeding to the models) UCONN, NC, and other's teams have many games with large victory margin against more weaker team are skewing their relative position more than it should. I believe the committee realizes that and added their subjective view of how they would seed teams. Unfortunately, no one can exactly know how they did it unless you are part of the group. If NET or any ranking system is perfect, we wouldn't need the committee anymore
Injury assessment has always been difficult to assess. While committee should consider it, but it really should weight its consideration more on actual game they can observe because that is less subjective than these hypothetical scenarios people are constructing. UConn looks great the last few games. But how would they react to a significantly better defense from a team like Louisville, where the players are more athletic, organize, and deep relative to the BE teams? How would these player coming back (I don't assume they are back to 100% yet) handle this kind of pressure the entire game? Louisville might be very inconsistent on its offense, their defense is top notch and consistent. These are things Q3 and Q4 defense will not be able to expose. Thus using them as eye test is not conclusive.
Lastly, regarding to the case of fairness, I think the biggest unfairness is to place one team with home court advantage against another team that is higher and close in seeding. I understand the economic reasoning, but it does not make it fair. I personally think a compromise can be make to elevate UCONN to a 2 seed, but I hope they are not in Bridgeport. I rather see them show up at Final Four because they are really that good and without any advantage. I rather put my focus on watching a beautiful game of basketball between two teams on neutral setting.
UCONN being a 3 seed and not playing at Bridgeport due to past injuries isn't a bad things. It developed player more so than they would otherwise and gives player opportunity to learn to be more fluid and creative with their role. It also exposes some development weaknesses in the system. UCONN's bench typically consists of players ranks higher than most other team's starter (Yes, even the two freshman that hardly see the court). It is not unreasonable for people to expect more (maybe even the committee). Geno will probably get alot out of this as I don't think he ever has to deal with something like this before. Maybe he will modify his system to integrate new players earlier. I honestly believe it is good for the team as a whole. At the end of the day, this team's ceiling is so super high, every team has to go through SC to get the title. Playing them in the regional is not so bad. Also Stanford and other top seeds are well coached as well. Any of them can still give us a great final.
Net Rankings is a system that they are using. If they are using it, it has value. If they felt as you suggest then they wouldn't be using it. or would have had another system or would have modified this before implementing it in which they exclude margin of victory. But they felt margin of victory was important, didn’t they? It’s your personal opinion that is flawed. But again what system isn't flawed?
And they do include injuries, which means they are open to being subjective. If you are going to be subjective, then what is more apparent than what happened to UCONN? The point of having a committee and looking at injuries also means that you are going to be subjective.
The point is- if you are going to say injuries count which means you are being subjective, and you are going to adopt a metric that you have promoted as part of your new evaluation system which probably better evaluates injuries than any other, now all of a sudden these factors are to be minimized?
And part of my argument is that it is not fair to SC. If you want UCONN out of Bridgeport, fine.
But as you say economics is part of it. So because this one part of playing at home is unfair then we should also make other things unfair such as making it harder for SC? "Two" wrongs don’t make a right.
And Quality and Efficiency is superior to any other metric they have when it comes to injury. Otherwise which metric is superior? They can't arbitrarily not use it. They adopted it and did not exclude margin of victory. Thus it is a metric they should value.
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It's also rather interesting that the NET and the Committee rankings are mirror images for #s 1-4... then they get to UCONN at #5 NET and they no longer match... I am not suggesting anything underhanded but it sure is odd...
Just sayin'
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RedStickHusky
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I posted this thread to kick the selection committee around while killing time before Saturday. It's been fun with an interesting diversity of opinions... Speaking for myself, I do not think it is the committee's job to predict who's going to play better in the tournament than they have all season. They have to fashion a bracket that reflects the season. Yes, they have metrics but like any self-respecting committee they claim the space to make some subjective decisions. Additionally, the requirement to separate conference mates forces some deviation from the baseline metrics. It's a tall task, one I don't envy them. Of the three arguments I see being made the most here, injuries, fairness, and economics, I'd say that injuries is the one that gives them the most opportunity to make adjustments. That being said, if I was on the committee my view would be that injuries might excuse a dip in performance, but they can't be used to assume a level that hasn't been demonstrated. If a team is performing at a certain level and falls off for a game or games due to injury, I can see giving them a pass on those losses. I can't see saying that a player coming back that hasn't played for most of the year is going to lift them to a level that they have not shown; and it shouldn't matter at all what that player did last season. Fairness? It's in the eye of the beholder... Are you going to punish Louisville to be fair to SC? Economics? I'm sure they don't want to be seen as giving somebody an advantage for the sake of box office; besides, the Bridgeport tickets are already sold.
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It's not the sole FACTOR but it is the sole metric mentioned in their seeding rules and they say quite a bit about it while never mentioning any other measure or even poll.
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Well we don't agree here obviously.
1--- It is the committee's job imo to project who is going to play better or worse. They do it when they seed at some level. And -injuries shouldn't be used one way that you can only project downward. Who says it should only be used to push a team downward while at the same time give no consideration to a team's additions such as last year's NPOY as an example?
2--- And I think to not take into account a NPOY of last year in which she was sensational this year before being hurt and then when she comes back the team is showing sensational performances not seen the entire year, I think it wrong then to not include that or minimize the effect.
3--- In terms of performance, isn’t that what Net Rankings is measuring? Isn't that why NCAA identified it as a factor to use? If it is measuring performance, then how can there be any comment of "UCONN has not performed?" Otherwise, we arbitrarily throw out Net Rankings when we feel like it? It's "telling us" that UCONN "has performed," isn't it?
What I'm suggesting is that imo Net Rankings combined with injuries tell a logical story. A logical story that the NCAA should have no problem using. Same with Charlie. This UCONN team is different. Logic tells us that through the use of Net Rankings and Injuries. Add in the economics; it's wrong at this moment (the moment could change) to not make UCONN a 2 seed and not penalize South Carolina.
4-- As for fairness, yes it is in the eye of the beholder but it doesn't mean we should give up trying to be fair. They employ the S-Curve in some manner to try to be fair. So they are to wash their hands of any further attempts to trying to be fair? Again that’s a computer talking imo.
I just looked up because I was never cared that much before but am I right in what I see?--: SC got 30 of 30 1st place votes? Is that true?
5--- If UCONN falters a bit in the BE Tourney then great put them back to a 3 or even 4.
RedStickHusky
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That's right. Thanks.
RedStickHusky
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We agree on that.