ITM, Hawk continues to fly high

[Waquoit]

What a clownshow. Everyone on their staff deserves to be fired. Not playing Hawkins while letting Zion eat his way through the 35-win buffet is coaching malpractice.

Ehh, the coach is in a tough spot. The easiest thing to do is to sit the new kid and hope the situation sorts itself out.

 

[husky429]

Ehh, the coach is in a tough spot. The easiest thing to do is to sit the new kid and hope the situation sorts itself out.

I'd say the easiest thing would be to take the cheeseburger platter from Zion. But I understand your point.

 

[87Xfer]

Not feeling confident in the $50 I put on Hawk for ROTY.

 

[3rdbass]

I hate using the word cancer. It's an ugly word for people that have lost someone to it (and most probably have). So, I'd reserve that word for people who ruin the whole team. Not just as a player, but a person. I do think Kyrie might have earned the term by alienating franchises from fans and hurting his team with randomly sitting out and a weird (if not nasty) attitude. I met Kyrie in a small setting. He was unpleasant. The guy I was with just said "he's not always like that, but he's moody." I hate being around people like that.

I don't consider Zion a cancer, but he will most likely never be a franchise player. He's out of shape. He's constantly conserving energy, so he doesn't make cuts, help on defense, rebound, etc. Even if he were in shape, his body type is not conducive to his playing style. His injuries will most likely continue. If I were the New Orleans GM, I'd trade Zion. I'm not sure if the Knicks have the assets, but I can see them totally overpaying.

Yeah I hate using that word and meant it non-heath terms. Sorry if it rubbed anyone the wrong place. I do think Zion is turning into the same type of primadona that Kyrie is. Look how he is handling his playing time and getting in shape. Sounds like his personal life is out wack just like Kyrie. They think they bigger than the team is what I meant. Duke really pumps up the head of these kids.

 

[M.S.G.]

Trash organizations will be trash organizations.. I literally can't even understand what they are doing with this rotation

 

[auror]

i dont mean breather in the literal sense. i mean it's not the worst thing in the world for a rookie to have a reduced role every now and then. i love hawk, think he should be playing, and think he will be in the rotation for their eventual playin/playoff series. but this is a professional team with playoff aspirations, not the new orleans jordan hawkins showcase. you can't design every single game's rotations around your 14th overall pick.

they are better (by a lot) when he's off the court: Jordan Hawkins 2023-24 On Off Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

he's gonna get plenty of chances. this is not the end of the world. this team is in a win-now era because zion is a ticking time bomb. im sure they'll push some chips in to consolidate at some point, which will open up more minutes for hawk. but right now this is nothing.

Pure on/off +/- is not a very precise stat. And this is a particularly poor use of it because the lineup has been so totally different. He's "OFF" more now that their good starters and 6th man are back from injury. He played a lot of his "ON" minutes against opposing starters while his team was down 2-4 of their top 6 players.

 

[polycom]

The only thing that makes sense is they are trying to showcase players for a trade. Letting Hawkins rot on your bench is silly and coaching malpractice.

 

[Beowulf]

Pure on/off +/- is not a very precise stat. And this is a particularly poor use of it because the lineup has been so totally different. He's "OFF" more now that their good starters and 6th man are back from injury. He played a lot of his "ON" minutes against opposing starters while his team was down 2-4 of their top 6 players.

I don’t disagree, just using it to illustrate a point that it’s not like he’s setting the world on fire when he’s in there and they are noticeably better when he’s in there. He’s a shooter who’s not shooting well and they are trying to win games. Hes not a particularly reliable defender at this point in time (like marshall and Alvarado) and he’s not a playmaker for other guys. Even his rebounding is 82% uncontested. They should still look to weaponize him at the one thing he’s doing well (shooting off screens) but this is not abnormal at all. This is how it goes sometimes.

I wouldn’t consider this “rotting” on the bench. It’s been like one game. He’ll be getting 20 minutes again soon enough. It’s like the same way Agbaji was utilized last year for Utah who was drafted in a similar spot. I realize he’s our precious baby but that doesn’t mean he should get 82 games and 25 mpg when he’s not even shooting well

 

[husky429]

He’s a shooter who’s not shooting well and they are trying to win games.

37% on almost 7 high-difficulty attempts per game isn't not shooting well?

 

[Beowulf]

37% on almost 7 high-difficulty attempts per game isn't not shooting well?

Over half his attempts per game (5.6 of 10.1) are considered “open” or “wide open”. And take a guess how his percentage compares to the league in all regards. I’ll give you a hint…..

 

[husky429]

Over half his attempts per game (5.6 of 10.1) are considered “open” or “wide open”. And take a guess how his percentage compares to the league in all regards. I’ll give you a hint…..

I'm only talking about 3s, not total shots taken. Did you bother to ready post? Congrats on thinking you're clever though!

 

[Beowulf]

I'm only talking about 3s, not total shots taken. Did you bother to ready post? Congrats on thinking you're clever though!

Glad you brought that up. He takes 2 threes a game that are considered “tight”. The other 4.8 are considered open or wide open

I’m not even lobbying he shouldn’t be playing. I’m just trying to put this into perspective and you guys can’t take the homer goggles off.

 

[caw]

Glad you brought that up. He takes 2 threes a game that are considered “tight”. The other 4.8 are considered open or wide open

I’m not even lobbying he shouldn’t be playing. I’m just trying to put this into perspective and you guys can’t take the homer goggles off.

How many of those open shots are off his own action and not simple swing passes though. Not many other players in the NBA can run the same off ball cuts he can.

 

[Beowulf]

How many of those open shots are off his own action and not simple swing passes though. Not many other players in the NBA can run the same off ball cuts he can.

I think by all accounts he’s been a good catch and shoot guy and a good off screen guy, but in terms of his own movement? those types of stats aren’t as easy to find as the ones husky429 is choosing to ignore (it’s called google). But we all know he knows how to cut and relocate.

Which is exactly how I think they should utilize him going forward. And then expand from there. Which is probably the plan, but he sat for one game so our fan base has to cry their eyes out

 

[bazz&boujee]

Glad you brought that up. He takes 2 threes a game that are considered “tight”. The other 4.8 are considered open or wide open

I’m not even lobbying he shouldn’t be playing. I’m just trying to put this into perspective and you guys can’t take the homer goggles off.

Yeah these guys are ridiculous lol Alvarado Marshall and Murphy are dudes who are better NBA players than Hawkins RIGHT NOW. They were always going to play over him. Hawk looked promising and will have a fine NBA career. Shooting % wasn't good enough to cut into those guys’ minutes at the moment.

 

[caw]

I think by all accounts he’s been a good catch and shoot guy and a good off screen guy, those types of stats aren’t as easy to find as the ones husky429 is choosing to ignore (it’s called google)

Which is exactly how I think they should utilize him going forward. And then expand from there. Which is probably the plan, but he sat for one game so our fan base has to cry their eyes out

It's been about three games now that he hasn't played a meaningful minute. He technically played in two of them but one was a 40 point loss when he checked in and the other was a 20 point win he got about a minute in. If the first was close, he wasn't seeing the floor.

I think a lot of it comes down to Zion not wanting to set screens (just an opinion from watching the games).

 

[Deleted at users request]

I think by all accounts he’s been a good catch and shoot guy and a good off screen guy, but in terms of his own movement? those types of stats aren’t as easy to find as the ones husky429 is choosing to ignore (it’s called google). But we all know he knows how to cut and relocate.

Which is exactly how I think they should utilize him going forward. And then expand from there. Which is probably the plan, but he sat for one game so our fan base has to cry their eyes out

While I agree with your assessment. I’m just not sure why he doesn’t play over Daniels who doesn’t seem like anything special.

 

[Beowulf]

While I agree with your assessment. I’m just not sure why he doesn’t play over Daniels who doesn’t seem like anything special.

I think Dyson is worse than hawk, but he’s also a number 8 pick who needs to get his looks. And def has more playmaking chops and defensive versatility (although have no idea if that versatility translates into being good). I think ultimately hawk will start to reclaim some of those minutes, especially after whichever trade they inevitably make

 

[Beowulf]

They got a lot of mouths to feed and it’s a long season, I guess is my summation of everything

 

[NJHusky]

I'd say the easiest thing would be to take the cheeseburger platter from Zion. But I understand your point.

I bet taking a burger from Zion would be the hardest thing to do….he’s not giving it up easily.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I think Dyson is worse than hawk, but he’s also a number 8 pick who needs to get his looks. And def has more playmaking chops and defensive versatility (although have no idea if that versatility translates into being good). I think ultimately hawk will start to reclaim some of those minutes, especially after whichever trade they inevitably make

Amazing Dyson got drafted over Hawk and is getting time over him despite shooting 25% from 3.

Which goes against another boneyard theory.

 

[auror]

Amazing Dyson got drafted over Hawk and is getting time over him despite shooting 25% from 3.

Which goes against another boneyard theory.

Dyson is the year before. It's not a "boneyard theory." Different positions and roles require different shooting capabilities in the NBA. There is no rule, but depending on a player's strengths or weaknesses the shooting is more or less important.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Dyson is the year before. It's not a "boneyard theory." Different positions and roles require different shooting capabilities in the NBA. There is no rule, but depending on a player's strengths or weaknesses the shooting is more or less important.

Don’t they both play shooting guard?

 

[gtcam]

Zion is a cancer just like Kyrie. Coincidence they both went to Duke. I would get rid of Zion as soon as I can before he injures himself enough were he won't play for the rest of the season. He is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

6 months after he doesn't play anymore basketball Zion will be a 400lb waddling turnip

 

[Fan1978]

It's been about three games now that he hasn't played a meaningful minute. He technically played in two of them but one was a 40 point loss when he checked in and the other was a 20 point win he got about a minute in. If the first was close, he wasn't seeing the floor.

I think a lot of it comes down to Zion not wanting to set screens (just an opinion from watching the games).

Hawkins shooting percentage is poor. Scoring but not at percentage that helps you win. He needs to hit 3 at above 40 percent. Never understood why he shot below 40 at UConn. Absolutely beautiful stroke. think he lacks. Confidence between ears. Really could have benefited from another year in college, unfortunately cant pass on the money.

Remember he was a non factor as a freshman. One nice year and big jump to nba. Unfair he goes from major minutes to zero. Great kid, hopefully he gets the mentorship and coaching to succeed and play 12-15 years in nba

 

[caw]

Hawkins shooting percentage is poor. Scoring but not at percentage that helps you win. He needs to hit 3 at above 40 percent. Never understood why he shot below 40 at UConn. Absolutely beautiful stroke. think he lacks. Confidence between ears. Really could have benefited from another year in college, unfortunately cant pass on the money.

Remember he was a non factor as a freshman. One nice year and big jump to nba. Unfair he goes from major minutes to zero. Great kid, hopefully he gets the mentorship and coaching to succeed and play 12-15 years in nba

He was at 37.3 before he was benched. Now if you want to argue he needs to finish better in the paint, that's a good case.

He also is one of the better ball movers on the team. Too many of their players take the air out of the ball pounding it on the ground.

 

[Bboy Lace]

We're biased because we're Huskies and we love Hawk, but the Pels benching their lottery pick just doesn't sit right. Yes he's a rookie but he's NOT playing bad at all. He's playing like a rookie. He's trying to figure out the NBA. We should hold coaching staffs accountable just like we do the players. And consequently some coaching staffs are good at squandering talented players.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I guess the question you have to ask is, which players should lose their rotation spot to Hawk? Alvarado is a point guard, Marshall is a 3/4, so taking their spots doesn’t make logical sense. Daniels I could see, but he’s also a former lottery pick that they probably want to see some ROI on, and has shown “flashes.”

We worried about this on draft night. The Pels have one of the deepest rosters in the league, Hawk added to that depth. The situation is different now that Hawk has shown big potential, but it seems like he was never meant to be playing after all.

 

[caw]

I guess the question you have to ask is, which players should lose their rotation spot to Hawk? Alvarado is a point guard, Marshall is a 3/4, so taking their spots doesn’t make logical sense. Daniels I could see, but he’s also a former lottery pick that they probably want to see some ROI on, and has shown “flashes.”

We worried about this on draft night. The Pels have one of the deepest rosters in the league, Hawk added to that depth. The situation is different now that Hawk has shown big potential, but it seems like he was never meant to be playing after all.

Yeah they have too many 2Gs right now and not enough C's. I honestly wouldn't mind getting a decent rim protector for one of their many guards if I were them. They just need a solid backup center. There really is no point in them trading Zion. For as fat as he is, you aren't getting anything as good back and they have way too much depth right now to take back multiple players. I would ditch one of Alvardo or Dyson and one of their twos for a solid center who can push Val to the backup or be the backup.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Yeah they have too many 2Gs right now and not enough C's. I honestly wouldn't mind getting a decent rim protector for one of their many guards if I were them. They just need a solid backup center. There really is no point in them trading Zion. For as fat as he is, you aren't getting anything as good back and they have way too much depth right now to take back multiple players. I would ditch one of Alvardo or Dyson and one of their twos for a solid center who can push Val to the backup or be the backup.

Probably wouldn’t move Alvarado if they had a choice. He brings really good energy off the bench with his defense and does a good job at point. Kind of like Beverly but he actually can do something on offense.