Isn't this the week the NCAA GIVES IT'S FINAL OPINION

[Walker11]

This guy just pops up every month or so to argue some contrarian position (poorly, IMO) and to plug his blog.

With all this talk about Harvard, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that they are notorious for lowering the bar for admittance in the Amaker regime. Maybe that's why their APR is weak. Back when I was younger, a few of my buddies played sports in the Ivy league. They were pretty decent students who wouldn't even be locks to get into UCONN. Think mid 11 SAT's. Basically, no chance in hell they would be admitted to an Ivy League school without athletics. If Amaker has lowered the bar I would be very interested in seeing what kind of students are currently being admitted. Harvard is above gaming the APR so its no surprise that some of their students may struggle academically in real classes.

 

[Gregory Koch]

Oh please, financial math is a joke compared to the stuff I did in graduate school as an engineer/physicist. Don't give this guy any more credit than he deserves. He calls himself a big fan and then he holds a grudge against the athletes for the help they get and makes up names for classes that don't exist. Bitter much? I would love to see this guy take on their schedule and keep up with his "how to steal money from other people" classes. His grades would plummet and he wouldn't get that nice unethical job at one of the "too big to fail investment banks". The rest of us realize that the APR issue is at least partially due to these kids having to take real classes at a real university and that their success benefits the university. It brings in money to improve facilities and faculty. It brings exposure which carries with it an assumed credibility for academics. While that last bit may not make sense logically, it is reality.

Ok, since you are at least not name-calling, I will respond to you. I'm not saying I have the hardest major. I have some friends who are engineering and physics majors and I know it's hard. But what I'm doing isn't easy either. And when did I make up names for classes that don't exist? Ok, "Super-Advanced Macroeconomics", but that's because I don't happen to know the name of the super-advanced macroeconomics course at UConn. I was never implying that was the real name. I'm sure the course exists by some name.
And by the way, I'm not a Financial Math major, I'm an Actuarial Science major. The Advanced Financial Math is just to prepare me for the FM (Financial Math) actuarial exam. But my major is irrelevant to this discussion really.
As for the athletes, I don't hold a grudge against UConn because all the major schools do it, and I recognize that UConn needs to do it to stay competitive. I don't really consider UConn to be "cheating" just because they do something that every school does. That would be silly and unfair. That being said, I don't deny it's happening either. And the person above who commented on Thabeet and the football players in his Easy-A course kind of proves my point.

 

[phillionaire]

Ok, since you are at least not name-calling, I will respond to you. I'm not saying I have the hardest major. I have some friends who are engineering and physics majors and I know it's hard. But what I'm doing isn't easy either. And when did I make up names for classes that don't exist? Ok, "Super-Advanced Macroeconomics", but that's because I don't happen to know the name of the super-advanced macroeconomics course at UConn. I was never implying that was the real name. I'm sure the course exists by some name.
And by the way, I'm not a Financial Math major, I'm an Actuarial Science major. The Advanced Financial Math is just to prepare me for the FM (Financial Math) actuarial exam. But my major is irrelevant to this discussion really.
As for the athletes, I don't hold a grudge against UConn because all the major schools do it, and I recognize that UConn needs to do it to stay competitive. I don't really consider UConn to be "cheating" just because they do something that every school does. That would be silly and unfair. That being said, I don't deny it's happening either. And the person above who commented on Thabeet and the football players in his Easy-A course kind of proves my point.

I took the same class. Doesn't make me a dumb jock. I took it for an easy A as well.

 

[Gregory Koch]

I took the same class. Doesn't make me a dumb jock. I took it for an easy A as well.

Yeah, but the fact that there were 12 football players in that class suggests something is going on. It's an open secret that many schools have a list of easy courses they give to jocks. I suspect that your course was on there and they took it. I don't necessarily have a problem with that since it's clear they're not here for the education anyway, but mainly to play basketball. I don't have a problem with the fact that this kind of stuff is going on since it happens everywhere. But I don't go into a state of denial either.

 

[Fishy]

I agree 100%. And as I recall, someone on this forum mentioned in a post about Bradley that he was taking by far more challenging courses than anyone else on the team. Which means that Bradley was actually being a real student and everyone else was not.....

That's one flimsy duck*ing foundation to build an argument on.

 

[CL82]

That's one flimsy duck*ing foundation to build an argument on.

A flimsy foundation and a conclusion that doesn't follow from it logically.

 

[champs99and04]

Can't argue with some of the logic used in this thread

"I was once in this easy class and there was like 14 football players there, so yeah, obviously all football players take easy classes"

"My wife teaches economics and she's had a bunch of basketball players as students"

"Somebody once told me Bradley is the only guy on this team who takes academics seriously"

Really guys? What's next? "My wifes friends daughter knows somebody with inside sources on the basketball team who claims Jeremy Lamb never went to class"?

 

[husky99]

^^^
wait lamb did not go to class??

 

[HuskyHawk]

Can't argue with some of the logic used in this thread

"I was once in this easy class and there was like 14 football players there, so yeah, obviously all football players take easy classes"

"My wife teaches economics and she's had a bunch of basketball players as students"

"Somebody once told me Bradley is the only guy on this team who takes academics seriously"

Really guys? What's next? "My wifes friends daughter knows somebody with inside sources on the basketball team who claims Jeremy Lamb never went to class"?

It's all anecdotal crap. I used to see Steve Pikiell, Gary Besselink and Greg Economou in class. I saw Jeff King and Cliff Robinson at Teds. Which tells you nothing. Each of these kids is a kid, with his own agenda. Just like the other thousands, some of whom blow off classes, and some of whom don't. I've seen people blow off lectures and still do very well in exams. Each kid will take academics seriously or not in his own way. Emeka did. Ben Gordon did. Some others didn't. It is however, the job of the athletic department to make sure that athletes at least do the minimum. For a time, we did a lousy job of that.

 

[specialisthusky]

I will not say any more.

thank god

 

[upstater]

It's all anecdotal crap. I used to see Steve Pikiell, Gary Besselink and Greg Economou in class. I saw Jeff King and Cliff Robinson at Teds. Which tells you nothing. Each of these kids is a kid, with his own agenda. Just like the other thousands, some of whom blow off classes, and some of whom don't. I've seen people blow off lectures and still do very well in exams. Each kid will take academics seriously or not in his own way. Emeka did. Ben Gordon did. Some others didn't. It is however, the job of the athletic department to make sure that athletes at least do the minimum. For a time, we did a lousy job of that.

I submit that it's impossible to do a good job with that, and anyone that claims they are doing a good job no is lying. Anyone who has had an NBA prospect in their spring class knows exactly what I'm talking about. Schools should figure this out, it's not very difficult to create a real program for these players. The APR is not it. It FORCES players to do LESS than the minimum and then gives them credit for it. In fact, I would argue that the APR makes it MORE difficult for players to graduate as it forces them into classes which will make it very difficult to graduate.

My solutions would be:

1. Higher entrance standards
2. Summer courses for electives
3. Fall, full slate of courses toward major
4. No spring courses
5. 5 year scholarships for all, 5 years of eligibility for playing, guarantee of 6th year scholarship to finish degree

 

[babysheep]

And, was that class in the Spring of his junior year when he was prepping for the draft?

I don't know what the answer is, but the idea that these kids can focus on classes given their schedules is sketchy at best. I don't like the intersession courses. Summer is a little better. Maybe the idea should be they take the spring off, use summer for electives, and the fall semester is the focus for their major.

It was in the fall.

 

[CL82]

I submit that it's impossible to do a good job with that, and anyone that claims they are doing a good job no is lying. Anyone who has had an NBA prospect in their spring class knows exactly what I'm talking about. Schools should figure this out, it's not very difficult to create a real program for these players. The APR is not it. It FORCES players to do LESS than the minimum and then gives them credit for it. In fact, I would argue that the APR makes it MORE difficult for players to graduate as it forces them into classes which will make it very difficult to graduate.

My solutions would be:

1. Higher entrance standards
2. Summer courses for electives
3. Fall, full slate of courses toward major
4. No spring courses
5. 5 year scholarships for all, 5 years of eligibility for playing, guarantee of 6th year scholarship to finish degree

Interesting. I'd change # 4 to reducing or eliminating penalty for a player who leaves to pursue unique career opportunities such as playing professionally. I don't think # 6 matters for guys who are going pro but I'd change that to 4 years eligibility and and fifth year to complete studies, if needed.

 

[upstater]

Interesting. I'd change # 4 to reducing or eliminating penalty for a player who leaves to pursue unique career opportunities such as playing professionally. I don't think # 6 matters for guys who are going pro but I'd change that to 4 years eligibility and and fifth year to complete studies, if needed.

These kids are never in class in the spring because of games.

If you give them spring off, you need to give them at least an extra two years to finish a "real" degree.

 

[CL82]

These kids are never in class in the spring because of games.

If you give them spring off, you need to give them at least an extra two years to finish a "real" degree.

Got it. Still until the year they go pro, they make it work. I'm not sure that it is an improvement to eliminate classwork for half the year.

By the way #1 is the key if people are really serious about the term student athlete. Otherwise you are setting the kids up to fail and institutions up to finesse the system.

 

[upstater]

Got it. Still until the year they go pro, they make it work. I'm not sure that it is an improvement to eliminate classwork for half the year.

By the way #1 is the key if people are really serious about the term student athlete. Otherwise you are setting the kids up to fail and institutions up to finesse the system.

It's not half a year though. They can do electives in the summer. It's simply a matter of shifting around their responsibilities. As they advance and they've taken all their electives, the summer option is not there for them anymore. But by that point, they are well into their major and are taking much more difficult classes.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

This guy just pops up every month or so to argue some contrarian position (poorly, IMO) and to plug his blog.

With all this talk about Harvard, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that they are notorious for lowering the bar for admittance in the Amaker regime. Maybe that's why their APR is weak. Back when I was younger, a few of my buddies played sports in the Ivy league. They were pretty decent students who wouldn't even be locks to get into UCONN. Think mid 11 SAT's. Basically, no chance in hell they would be admitted to an Ivy League school without athletics. If Amaker has lowered the bar I would be very interested in seeing what kind of students are currently being admitted. Harvard is above gaming the APR so its no surprise that some of their students may struggle academically in real classes.

The Ivy League uses something called the "Athletic Academic Index" for each and every application submitted by a prospective athlete. From what I understand, it's a fairly easy calculation based on SAT/ACT scores, Class Rank and GPA. The final numbers include a lower threshold that is sacrosanct. No Ivy school is allowed to take an athlete whose Index number falls below the low threshold. The league sets "index" requirements higher for Harvard, Yale and Princeton. The other five schools have slightly reduced "index" requirements. Harvard can take "low threshold" types but have to be mindful of the overall "index" requirements. In other words, Harvard, or any other league school, has to offset athletes with low index numbers with higher scoring athletes, in order to meet overall index requirements. By the way, it is my understanding that the low threshold equates to mostly "A's," some "B's" and strong SATs. Amaker can't be lowering the standards. Too much over-site.

 

[babysheep]

These kids are never in class in the spring because of games.

If you give them spring off, you need to give them at least an extra two years to finish a "real" degree.

Are part-time students (which is what they would be considered at best if they don't take any credits) allowed to play?

 

[Robertelamin]

They need a minimum of 6 credits per semester so no they couldn't play. In theory though a student could take 2 three credit classes each semester for their first two years but they would have to take 12 three credit classes during the summer/winter to be able to play their Junior year since they have to be 40% done with their degree after their Sophomore year. Assuming 120 credits to graduate.

http://ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Eligibility/Remaining+Eligible/

 

[upstater]

Are part-time students (which is what they would be considered at best if they don't take any credits) allowed to play?

That's for the NCAA to decide. I don't see why not. But they have to maintain progress toward degree (that means being enrolled the rest of the year). Remember, S Robinson was off one entire semester, and Emeka was one course away from degree, a half semester course.

 

[babysheep]

That's for the NCAA to decide. I don't see why not. But they have to maintain progress toward degree (that means being enrolled the rest of the year). Remember, S Robinson was off one entire semester, and Emeka was one course away from degree, a half semester course.

I forget if Sticks played while he took the semester off (wasn't he just like working in a foundry?). The answer will answer your question on whether or not players can get away with it

 

[specialisthusky]

I forget if Sticks played while he took the semester off (wasn't he just like working in a foundry?). The answer will answer your question on whether or not players can get away with it

Upstater is simply stating that is one of his reccommendations to help solve the student athlete/semi professional issue. clearly you cant play for a college if you dont go to the college under the current rules and regs.

 

[upstater]

Upstater is simply stating that is one of his reccommendations to help solve the student athlete/semi professional issue. clearly you cant play for a college if you dont go to the college under the current rules and regs.

But, we keep students on all the time by having them pay for 1 credit, just to keep them officially as part-time student while they are finishing up work. I sign off on this all the time. This is an NCAA regulation about the amount of credits they must take. As far as schools are concerned, these kids can be considered real students even if they take just one credit (independent study). Schools simply require that you are preceding toward your degree. Scholarship requirements are evaluated over the course of the year. Between the summer and fall, you can achieve 3/4 of the credits needed to remain a student in good standing.